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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Seven Women's Bodies Found in Indiana; Remains Found in Hannah Graham Search; Quarantine Over for Ebola Victim's Fiancee; Ferguson Cop Feared for His Life

Aired October 20, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A woman strangled at an Indiana motel. A suspect leads police to even more bodies. And suddenly it's an investigation into seven deaths and counting. Is there yet another serial killer at work in America?

And also ahead, human remains found on an abandoned property just minutes away from where University of Virginia student Hannah Graham was last seen. So where does this case go from here?

And the four people who lived in the apartment where Thomas Eric Duncan came down with Ebola make it through their 21-day quarantine, showing no signs of that deadly virus. So how on earth did they avoid it, unlike his nurses, who took so many different precautions?

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

About an hour from now we could find out so much more about a possible serial killer operating in Indiana, and maybe even elsewhere, too. The chilling case unfolded at this Motel 6 in Hammond, Indiana. A woman's body found in a room there on Friday night. The victim, 19-year-old Afrika Hardy. The cause of death? Strangulation. Hardy may have met her killer on this website, backpage.com, perhaps as an escort. And evidence from the Motel 6 lead police directly to a 48-year-old man who was taken into custody for questioning.

And here's where it gets interesting. According to the police, he confessed to several other killings that led to the discovery of six more bodies about eight miles away in Gary, Indiana. Those victims were all found within a four-mile radius. The police department is planning to hold a news conference at 1:00 p.m., Eastern Time, and our Miguel Marquez has been working this story. He's joins me live now.

And we just have to let our viewers know that even as we, you know, get the facts, they continue to compile new bits and pieces of evidence and the body count may go higher?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And this may actually grow. We do have a little bit of new information. The 19-year-old that you referenced that was initially found at the Motel 6, Afrika Hardy is her name. We now have a photograph of her. She was strangled to death. Two of the victims were strangled. The others are still pending. Their autopsies are pending. We also have a picture of Anith Jones, who was another one of this individual's victims. Police, right, now, only saying that he's 43- year-old, that he is from Texas. He had a sex offense charge in Texas. He was on the registry there. They are not releasing it because he is talking and they are saying that there are other states where he lived and there could be other victims.

BANFIELD: So, Miguel, right away whenever I hear confession, I'm always suspect because there's plenty of people who confess erroneously to crimes.

MARQUEZ: Sure.

BANFIELD: But those are not the people who lead you to bodies.

MARQUEZ: Well, this is exactly it. This is - police say that he led them directly and specifically to places, not only the locations, but how the bodies were arranged in there. The mayor of Hammond, Indiana, did say that some of what he confessed to date back 20 years. It is not clear - and it doesn't sound like it, but it's not clear whether any of the bodies that they've found were found - were 20 years old. These were very -- these were neighborhoods in Gary, these were homes that were abandoned. Very, very frightening looking places. The sort of places you would expect something like this to happen, boarded up homes in neighborhoods, but neighborhoods nonetheless. Places where people actually existed around there, saw comings and goings, nobody ever suspected anything. Anith Jones, one of those victims, had been missing since October 8th. So this was something that clearly police were dealing with for a while.

BANFIELD: Do we know anything - I know, look, in a situation that's unraveling this quickly, they have to be very careful with the kind of information that they release. But at the same time, we have a woman in a Motel 6 on Friday and we have a guy on Saturday who potentially, at this point, could be responsible for seven different murders. What did they find in that hotel room that led them right to him?

MARQUEZ: The only thing they're saying is that they found something that lead them to another location in Gary. She was -- the initial call came in that she was nonresponsive. The police showed up there at the hotel. She was dead. Whatever was left in that hotel led them -- perhaps there was video evidence from the hotel of a car with a license plate. That would probably do it. It wouldn't have to necessarily be inside the hotel room itself.

BANFIELD: All right, Miguel, I know you're working the phones and definitely break in the minute you find any more information.

MARQUEZ: You got it.

BANFIELD: It's very troubling to note that there's now talk that there could be other victims in other states. It could go right across the country.

MARQUEZ: Other states. Yes. BANFIELD: So we'll check in with you as news warrants as well. And I also want to bring in Karen Freeman-Wilson. She's the mayor of Gary, Indiana. And I also have with us Gary Police Chief Larry McKinley. Both of them join me on the phone.

Chief McKinley, if I may start with you, please. Is there anything that you can update us that - you know, we've been getting bits and pieces of information and Miguel Marquez has given us what we know so far. But I know that this case is unraveling quickly. What more do you know, sir?

CHIEF LARRY MCKINLEY, GARY, INDIANA (via telephone): Well, the only thing that -- the case is still under investigation. There is a person of interest in custody at the Hammond, Indiana, Police Department at this time. They're still getting statements from him. So it's still ongoing.

BANFIELD: And the statements that you're getting from him, there is some reporting that he's very cooperative. Can you characterize this person? Tell me what he's like and what he's like in custody?

MCKINLEY: Well, I don't really know what he's like in custody, but he's been very cooperative at this time. Everything he's really given us has panned out.

BANFIELD: And cooperative in that he has led your officers to locations where these bodies have been found. It is absolutely - I mean it's air tight, that there's no way those officers would have gone to these locations without what he said?

MCKINLEY: That's correct. With the information that he's given to the officers, they've been able to actually follow up and go directly to the locations.

BANFIELD: Has he given them a reason for any of this, why he's taken them to these places or why he's confessed to these killings?

MCKINLEY: No, no comment on that. It's still under investigation.

BANFIELD: And is he now talking about additional locations? Because our account is seven bodies at this point. Do you know that to be the case or are there more and are your officers dispatched to further locations right now?

MCKINLEY: No. The only thing we have are the seven that we currently have.

BANFIELD: Are you in communication with other states and other communities, police forces, in terms of looking at other locations that something he said may have sparked an interest in open cases elsewhere?

MCKINLEY: No, we've been in very tight communications with the city of Hammond Police Department.

BANFIELD: City of Hammond being one other location. This is where the Motel 6 incident, the murder took place. But what about other states? There's some talk about Illinois. There's -- I mean, obviously, the notion that he had a sex conviction in Texas. Have you spoken with any authorities in those states who say that they've got cases they're now opening up again and taking a second look?

MCKINLEY: No, our detectives have not had any communication with any other state, other than just the city of Hammond, which is within the state of Indiana.

BANFIELD: Chief McKinley, can you tell me that you think that this is over at seven?

MCKINLEY: I'm not sure.

BANFIELD: And why is that?

MCKINLEY: We're only going off of the statements and the information that he's providing us at this time.

BANFIELD: Is he still talking as we speak?

MCKINLEY: At this time, he's not.

BANFIELD: So he has - he has stopped speaking to authorities at this time?

MCKINLEY: Well, at this time -- it's still under investigation. So he will speak with us when he has the time. But he's at the city of Hammond Police Department. He's not in my custody at this time.

BANFIELD: So are your officers - I mean are you getting any access to him? I suppose my question really is, has he invoked his right to an attorney and to his Fifth Amendment privileges at this point?

MCKINLEY: No, he hasn't.

BANFIELD: Do you have officers who are present with the Hammond officers as well who are able to ask questions?

MCKINLEY: Yes, we have officers who are working directly with the Hammond Police Department.

BANFIELD: So I think I'm a bit confused as to whether he's speaking or whether he isn't speaking. Does he have a lawyer?

MCKINLEY: At this time, it's still under investigation. Charges have not been filed at this time.

BANFIELD: But you've not -- do you know if he's retained counsel at this point?

MCKINLEY: No, not at this time.

BANFIELD: He has not retained counsel at this time or you don't know if he's retained counsel?

MCKINLEY: He has not retained counsel at this time.

BANFIELD: He's not retained counsel at this time.

Chief McKinley, thank you so much for your time. I know this is a very busy time for you. I want to let you get back to your work. In the meantime, I'd like to ask the mayor, if I may, Mayor Freeman-Wilson, you can still hear me?

MAYOR KAREN FREEMAN-WILSON, GARY, INDIANA (via telephone): Yes, I can.

BANFIELD: This is, obviously - Mayor Freeman-Wilson, this is obviously a very difficult time for your community. Can you update me as to your resources and what your community is doing in terms of trying to solve these crimes?

FREEMAN-WILSON: This is an absolutely difficult time for the city and citizens of Gary. Anytime you have someone who appears to be a serial killer who has been apprehended, you always think about what is and certainly focused heavily on the areas that the bodies have been found. We are working in partnership with the Hammond Police Department, the Lake County coroner's office, as well as the Lake County prosecutor and Lake County sheriff to make sure that we are recovering and identifying the victims as quickly as we can. We want to bring closure to those families and provide information to those families. And we are certainly working from a police standpoint to gather as much evidence as possible and to ensure that when the time comes for prosecution, that we have as much evidence as possible to hold this individual responsible for these heinous acts.

BANFIELD: May I ask you, the -- your counterpart in Hammond, the mayor of Hammond, made some pretty strident comments earlier this morning about - I mean effectively labeling this 43-year-old suspect as a serial killer, saying that he has got a sex offense from Texas and that the mayor from Hammond says this - this person of interest, this suspect, has talked about victims that go back 20 years. Are you aware of this and can you go on the record saying that this potential perpetrator has talked in custody of victims that span at least 20 years?

FREEMAN-WILSON: Well, what I do know - I don't know about the 20-year discussion with the suspect. I do know that there are six victims in the city of Gary. And by any estimation, that certainly amounts to a person being a serial killer once the evidence is confirmed that this one individual is responsible. And so I don't think we have to go back 20 years. We can look at what we found already over the course of the weekend to determine that there are multiple deaths and that they are likely at the hand of this individual and that certainly could -- would cause us to label him as a serial killer.

BANFIELD: Mayor Freeman-Wilson, I want to just ask our producers to put the map up again of the locations where the bodies have been found thus far. And you can see that they are sort of a - they form a concentric circle. And in the middle of our map, and I'm not sure if you can see it but I'll describe it, is the campus for Indiana University Northwest. Is there any notion, is there any discussion among your authorities that there may be some link to the university, either where victims may have been found or where this alleged perpetrator may have plied his trait?

FREEMAN-WILSON: Not at all. It is just simply coincidental that the university is in this radius and that's largely because it is on the main street in the city, Broadway. Because really the connection to the locations, I think, is more Broadway than the university.

BANFIELD: And I'm seeing the -- we just lost the map, but there were three bodies in one location and I'm being told that many of these bodies were found in abandoned homes or abandoned structures. Does that mean there were three bodies found in one abandoned structure?

FREEMAN-WILSON: There were. That is correct. Actually, I believe there were two bodies found in one structure and one - and one very approximate to that second -

BANFIELD: Very approximate.

FREEMAN-WILSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: So what does this mean for your authorities? I mean are you now fanning your police resources right throughout Gary, Indiana, and looking at all different abandoned homes to see if there may be evidence of further cases? And while I'm at it, I'll just throw in the notion of the cold cases in your community. Are you reopening them at lightning pace?

FREEMAN-WILSON: It means that we are certainly doubling down on our efforts to demolish abandoned structures, those that should be demolished, and to repurpose those that we have determined can be repurposed. It also underscores the fact that our focus on abandoned structures is, in fact, well placed and that we should continue the course of our actions in this area. It also means that our police officers will, in addressing missing persons, certainly look at those structures as potential dump sites for bodies and determine how we might be able to use technology, use cadaver dogs and other forms of investigation or other investigative tools to determine whether, in fact, there are others.

BANFIELD: Mayor -- madam mayor, just one last question.

FREEMAN-WILSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: We went to air knowing that there were two of these bodies identified. Are there more identifications that have been made now?

FREEMAN-WILSON: To date, we are not aware of any additional identifications that have been made.

BANFIELD: OK.

FREEMAN-WILSON: At this time.

BANFIELD: Mayor Karen Freeman-Wilson, I can't thank you enough for your time, especially at this difficult juncture for you. And the best of luck to you and your authorities as you try to piece together what's happened in these two communities, in Gary and in Hammond. Thank you so much.

I want to - I want to turn now to another case that we've been following, the search for a missing college student named Hannah Graham. You've heard the word serial killing mentioned in the same vain as this particular case. Now investigators have found human remains near the area where Hannah went missing.

We are waiting for the forensic test results to see for sure if it is this missing sophomore. We're going to talk about what else the experts are looking for. It's not just about identifying those remains. It's everything around those remains and the story that that could tell us. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A heartbreaking discovery in the search for missing college student Hannah Graham. Skeletal remains. At this point, we don't know for certain if they belong to Hannah but police in Virginia say her case is now officially a death investigation.

Hannah Graham went missing on September 13th. The search for her is over. And after this weekend's discovery, they are not looking for any other remains at this time.

Brian Todd is live in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Brian, what more do we know about the conditions of the remains and where they were found?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, we can tell you at this hour that police and other authorities are still combing that scene where the remains were found, still kind of piecing parts of this investigation.

On the remains that you just discussed, Sergeant Dale Terry of the Chesterfield County Sheriff's Department. They're the group that actually discovered these remains on Saturday. He had described the remains to us like this. It was a skull and bones found across a creek bed, that there was no crushing of the bones, that the skull was intact. He also said there was no hair or skin on the skeletal remains but that there was a pair of black pants nearby and that -- of course, we know from the investigation that Hannah Graham was wearing black pants on the night she disappeared.

Sergeant Terry spoke to our affiliate not long after the remains were discovered about what the situation was like and the moments before that discovery was made on Saturday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF STEVE SELLERS, ALBEMARLE COUNTY POLICE DEPT.: I do believe God wanted us to find what we found. I don't know how else to explain it other than something just in time and told me just continue to look.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TODD: Now we have asked police just a moment ago about what led them to this discovery. Was it kind of a random nature of combing an area like this or was it a specific piece of information? They are not able to tell us that right now. I specifically asked the police official here in Albemarle County, did Jesse Matthew say anything? Was it a piece of information from him, from any other person? Was it a specific tip that led to the discovery of these remains on Saturday?

They just cannot tell us that right now, Ashleigh, and right now they can't tell us when we're going to get the results back at this critical forensic examination of those remains to tell us whether these are remains of Hannah Graham or not -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, gee, Brian, I mean, they held a news conference, they had to be pretty darn certain before they hold a news conference of that kind of nature.

Brian Todd, reporting live for us, thank you for that.

I'm joined now by CNN legal commentator Mel Robbins and forensic scientist Larry Kobilinsky, who is professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and one of the best in the business when it comes to the notion of forensics and how critical they are, from this moment, the collection moment, not just a presentation in the courtroom but the preservation of how you get this evidence.

Now can you walk me through what they are doing in that dirt at this moment?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, the evidence collection team is sifting the soil looking for any trace evidence that might help them establish a link between a suspect and a victim. They will be looking for a weapon perhaps or hair. Anything that they can use to help identify whoever did this.

Now they did find black pants and that's significant because if she had been sexually assaulted, there's a possibility semen will be found on the pants and because of the nature of the DNA molecule, it should still be intact despite 35 days.

BANFIELD: Doctor Kobilinsky, I have covered enough cases with you where we have seen this thing play out where someone who's brought in on a murder, where DNA or fibers or hair of that suspect are found on the body and they have a defense, I was with her but I didn't kill her. In this respect, how can they get past that, Mel?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Well, one of the things you've got to remember is, there's DNA evidence that will link him to the body and what we really want is DNA evidence that will link him to the scene.

BANFIELD: To the scene of where the body is found?

ROBBINS: To the scene of where the body was.

BANFIELD: Because Joran Van Der Sloot said that he was with that poor girl in Aruba but left her on the beach.

ROBBINS: Right.

BANFIELD: And he was never charged in that incident.

ROBBINS: Yes.

BANFIELD: So in this particular incident, Jesse Matthew is seen on video with this girl. He could have a perfectly logical story that he was with her that maybe they --

ROBBINS: But he doesn't.

BANFIELD: But maybe they were even together intimately and then he left her at midnight.

ROBBINS: But see, here's the thing.

BANFIELD: But you get him on that scene --

ROBBINS: But here's the problem.

BANFIELD: And forget.

ROBBINS: The problem for the defendant -- they're going to nail this guy, thank God. But the problem for the defendant in taking that strategy is the second he takes the stand and starts telling a story, and he opens himself up to cross-examination, they may have trouble joining all of these cases together because of the prejudicial nature of preponderance evidence.

BANFIELD: This is the suggested that --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: And the second thing you nail him in a lie, you bring other women to the stand to discredit him, that have accused him of rape in the past, which there are at least three.

KOBILINSKY: He won't be called to the stand.

ROBBINS: Yes. He will not be called to the stand.

BANFIELD: But if you can -- if you can link other crimes with patterns, et cetera, then that whole notion of, well, I was with her but I didn't kill her becomes a lot less easy to swallow if you're a juror?

ROBBINS: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Dr. Kobilinsky and Mel Robbins, thank you so much for that.

We'll continue to watch as the -- obviously the information is going to come forward in terms of identifying her and what evidence they're able to gather from that scene. Also want to take you to one of our other top stories. The deadly

Ebola virus today. Thank God, making -- marking the end of the quarantine period for the people who had direct contact with Thomas Eric Duncan. That Liberian man who died of Ebola in Dallas.

Why did people living in the same apartment with him avoid actually contracting the virus while two nurses who sensibly were covered head- to-toe got sick? Going to dig deeper and explain that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The quarantine is thankfully over for the fiancee of a Liberian man, Thomas Eric Duncan, who died of Ebola in Dallas. She, her two sons and two other young men who were living with them, both family members, last had contact with Duncan 21 days ago and they are showing no signs of Ebola.

Texas officials said today that they are in a group of 48 people who had direct contact with Mr. Duncan and who have been monitored. And 43 of them have now been declared Ebola-free as of this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE CLAY JENKINS, DALLAS COUNTY: Zero risk that any of those people have been wiped off a list have Ebola. They were in contact with a person who had Ebola and the time period for them to get Ebola has lapsed. It is over. So they are -- they do not have Ebola.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Elizabeth Cohen joins me live now from Atlanta.

Elizabeth, there are still people who are being monitored. So what's the story about them? Where are they and what are their conditions?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: In the state of Texas, Ashleigh, there are about 120 people being monitored. These are mostly health care workers so those took care of Mr. Duncan, as well as who took care of the two nurses who followed him and there are also some personal contacts of these two nurses. So they are still being monitored, still have to take their temperatures.

You know, I think there's varying degrees of how restrictive they are so some of them cannot, for example, get on a commercial airliner. Some of them cannot go to restaurants or places where people congregate in public. But others there is less restriction.