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At This Hour

Police on Trail of Serial Killer; Pistorius Gets Five Years; Lewinsky Opens Up; Spanish Nurse Free of Ebola; CDC Issues New Ebola Guidelines

Aired October 21, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: And I'm Michaela Pereira. Good to have you with us.

A possible serial killer with a trail that could cover multiple states and decades. Police are on that trail right now.

Plus, a huge break in a missing persons case that has captivated the nation. Could it lead to more breaks in more cases?

BERMAN: And an athlete who once inspired people across the globe is now a convicted killer. But he will serve just five years in prison at the most and maybe as little as ten months. So is that justice?

We're following all the latest developments in these three big stories making news @THISHOUR.

PEREIRA: So we'll begin with breaking news in the Darren Vann case, the suspect in the murder of 19-year-old Afrikka Hardy in a motel room in Indiana.

Following his arrest, police say Vann started talking, and what he said to them shocked them. Instead of chasing a killer, they found themselves chasing victims.

BERMAN: They say Vann led them to the bodies of six more women in and around Gary, Indiana, and opened the door to an even bigger investigation.

Now, we're joined now by our Poppy Harlow on the phone from Gary, and Poppy is riding around with police right now on the hunt. And the big question is at this stage, Poppy, what are they looking for?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, they're looking, John and Michaela, for possibly other bodies. This is incredibly disturbing. We now have seven dead, murdered women. Six of them found in these abandoned homes around Gary, Indiana, and police want to know, are there more?

We know that Darren Vann, the 43-year-old suspect in the murder of Afrikka Hardy at that motel over the weekend, led police to these six other women's bodies. He has not told police, they told me, if there are indeed any more, however clearly there have been some indications that there may be because police are out here checking.

This is an area -- all of this city, really, where you have a huge problem with abandoned homes, and all of the bodies were found in abandoned homes, so we've been going for the last half hour with them, door to door, through these abandoned homes.

They have not found anything yet. The cadaver dogs have just arrived to help them. They're using a grid pattern, about 20 different police officers scouring different parts of the city.

I just talked to some residents around here, guys, who said to me, "We call this 'Scary Gary.'" And the girl told me, the 19-year-old, she doesn't go out past 8:00 at night because largely of all of these abandoned homes that are clearly a danger to the city.

So they're looking for more, but no, they have not found anyone else at this point.

PEREIRA: So, Poppy, we know that essentially, after they found the body of Afrikka Hardy, Vann just sort of confessed to these other killings, led them to these other bodies.

But that police believe there could be deaths going back decades. Help us understand that. Is that coming from him, or are there other open cases they're concerned about?

HARLOW (via telephone): Yeah, they do. That's a good question, Michaela. At this point, Vann has not directly confessed to the other murders. However, he's led police to all six bodies, clearly indicating some involvement in their disappearance.

We don't know why he's cooperating with police. They said it's completely unclear why he's giving them so much information. The police chief of Gary told me in an interview that his mental state is, quote, "normal."

But you're right. His arrest record goes back to 1993. He was arrested again in 2009 for aggravated rape. He served five years in jail. We also know that in 2004 he served 90 days in jail for grabbing a woman, holding her, and threatening to burn her with gasoline.

I mean, this is a man with a hugely troubled past, and the question is why was he out on the street? And how could he have committed potentially seven or more murders?

Now, the police told me that he was monitored as recently as September by the local sheriff's department because he is a registered sex offender, but it begs the question. What does this monitoring really entailing if this could happen?

BERMAN: What did the monitoring entail? When did the crimes happen? If they did happen, maybe he was responsible.

Poppy Harlow, riding around with police right now, looking for more bodies possibly, our thanks to you.

Let's talk about the point that Poppy brought up. Let's bring in Mel Robbins right now. She's our legal analyst.

And, Mel, you look at this man's past, a convicted sex offender, convicted of aggravated rape in 2009, and he served just five years for that. That doesn't seem like a long sentence. This seems like a guy you would keep on a very short leash.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, a very short leash, indeed, John and Michaela. This is such a gruesome story. I don't even know where to begin.

But let's start with that case in Texas. So in 2007, he hired a prostitute, and when she arrived he asked her if she was a police officer, and as soon as she said no, he immediately started the assault, the strangulation, the rape, and she was one of perhaps only the lucky ones who had an encounter with him because she left.

She cooperated with the police guys, told them the whole story. He was arrested in 2009, pled guilty, sentenced to five years, did the entire time, and when he was released from a jail in Austin, Texas, he was deemed by the state of Texas as, quote, "a low risk."

He did register when he moved back to Indiana, but obviously, since they thought he was a low risk, they weren't doing any kind of tracking. They were only doing random check-ins, and he was allowed to travel at will.

And what we know now is that there are at least seven victims that he has confessed to. They have recovered five -- they've identified five of these women.

And one of the things I think it's important to note, John and Michaela, is that there's only one of the five women that they've identified that was reported as a missing person.

BERMAN: Yeah, that's deeply troubling to me, I've got to say.

ROBBINS: Yes. Yes, and so he probably was preying on women that might be in danger or might be in the fringe, and there does appear, according to CBS too in Chicago, they're reporting there was a pattern to the way in which he was killing these women.

PEREIRA: It is so disheartening to hear that he was being monitored by police, yet seven women, likely in the time that he was being monitored, still ended up dead.

I want to pivot to a story we've been watching here on CNN for some time, the results of the sentence we heard today. We're turning to South Africa now, if you will, Mel, to talk about the sentence that Oscar Pistorius, the so-called Blade Runner, received -- five years.

By American standards, that seems like an awfully light sentence. I understand that they have a different legal system in South Africa. Their law works differently. I'm curious what your reaction is to the sentence.

ROBBINS: Frankly, Michaela, I was floored. I was floored for a number of reasons. One is this judge. She has a history of throwing the book at defendants who commits acts against violence against women, so I was expecting at least a decade in prison.

And I think even more troubling is that the experts are saying that based on their kind of time-served and good behavior and other factors, he's probably only going to serve ten months behind bars.

So I realize she wanted to give a balanced sentence, but this one is a balanced sentence that weighs in favor of Pistorius, and I felt that it was way too lenient, and, frankly, I was surprised based on some of her comments during the -- during her findings when she spent a day recounting that he was a terrible witness, that he was evasive, and that this was reckless.

BERMAN: Mel Robbins, our thanks to you. Certainly the large majority of people commenting online are shocked that it was so low.

I have stopped trying to understand the South African legal system. It's very, very different, clearly.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Mel Robbins, thanks.

PEREIRA: Good to have you, Mel.

Meanwhile, we want to talk about a huge medical breakthrough. Imagine this, a paralyzed man walks again after implanting cells from his own body into the injured area. We're going to speak to the leader of the research team ahead. Quite a breakthrough.

BERMAN: And then people in the room for this speech for Monica Lewinsky just said wow. Wow. Amazing words to hear from her as she now says she's determined despite cyber bullying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA LEWINSKY, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE INTERN: I was patient zero, the first person to have their reputation completely destroyed worldwide via the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Monica Lewinsky says she has a new mission. She says she wants to end cyber bullying.

The former White House intern is planning to make an emotional plea to end the kind of harassment she was subjected to following her affair with President Bill Clinton that was revealed -- what -- back in 1998. Hard to believe. BERMAN: A long time ago.

PEREIRA: It was a long time ago.

BERMAN: During a speech at Forbes's 30 Under 30 Summit in Philadelphia, Lewinsky says she knows what it's like to be shamed online, and she wants to help other victims of what she calls the shame game. She wants to help them survive.

I think people were just wowed by the speech in general. Let's listen to her tell the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEWINSKY: Sixteen years ago, fresh out of college, a 22-year-old intern in the White House and, more than averagely romantic, I fell in love with my boss in a 22-year-old sort of way. It happens.

But my boss was the president of the United States. That probably happens less often.

I couldn't imagine ever showing my face in public again. I cringed, I yelled, I sobbed, and the mantra continued, "I just want to die."

When I ask myself how best to describe how the last 16 years has felt, I always come back to that word -- shame -- my own personal shame, shame that befell my family and shame that befell my country, our country.

I was patient zero, the first person to have their reputation completely destroyed worldwide via the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: I think what's truly remarkable, John, here is that -- how far she's come given what went on and given the words she just spoke, "I wanted to die, I wanted to die."

You stand there -- you look at her standing there, polished, poised, eloquent, what a long way that woman has come.

BERMAN: Joining us to talk about this, our digital correspondent Kelly Wallace, and also Margaret Hoover.

And, Margaret, what struck me is this sound like an intelligent person who's had 16 years to think about what she wants to say when she's given the stage and then this was the speech. It was really interesting.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And it was a perfect speech. I mean, I had speech writers even commenting that the highs and the lows, the way it was written, it was crafted so beautifully, delivered really flawlessly. And I think, you know, I think she really is truly a character of real courage. I mean, courage is somebody who can really face difficulty and pain, and it's this quality of spirit and mind, and you see that in her. I mean, she almost died, but for the love of her family and friends,

she cites Tyler Clementi's story, the freshman from Rutgers University who threw himself from the GW Bridge after being cyber-harassed by some friends because he was gay. This is a really authentic story of a woman who identified with somebody, because frankly, she was the very first person to endure anything like that and on a global scale. You know, to me it's quite extraordinary, and I really hope that we, in the media, and everyone can give her a place and a platform to speak that truth.

PEREIRA: You hope that the haters, the critics, cans put all of that aside and -- we all -- when we played that sound of her saying that she simply wanted to die, more than once, all of us were taken aback. I mean, you hear that from somebody's lips, Kelly, and that's so awfully powerful.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: It's so powerful and so upsetting. You know what, the haters are going to be out there. They're already out there on Twitter and the critics are going to be there, but the word brave kept coming to my mind. She doesn't have to do this. She does not have to do this. She can go -- I mean obviously, she has tried to get jobs and it's hard to get hired. I'm Monica Lewinsky, and people say you have a history that comes along with you, we can't hire you. But she doesn't have to do this. And I think that, to me, was so powerful. You really sense this is an authentic feeling that I was there, I survived the shame game, she says, and how about I commit my life to trying to prevent this, this climate of hate that we live in.

HOOVER: That's cathartic.

WALLACE: That really can lead to damaging things for people and death in ways, too.

BERMAN: And look, as consumers, we do not have to say, we approve or disapprove of what happened 16 years ago or in the 90's. That's now a separate thing. The issue now is what she has done since then and what she's choosing to do now. It's interesting, my producers will hate me for this, but we were talking in our meeting this morning, and they were like, let's talk about the political angle of this. I'm not sure that we have to talk about the political angle here.

HOOVER: That's exactly right, John. I think that is the key insight here, is that we can talk about Monica Lewinsky's new war on cyberbullying in and of itself and not have to reference back what happened in the beginning or what gave her that platform. She's taking the platform, she's bold enough to get into the arena, to dedicate herself to a cause that, frankly, is desperately need. I mean, there are parents across this country who are cheering her on because, frankly, they need her voice and her guidance.

PEREIRA: Desperately.

HOOVER: Desperately. And so, good for her. Let's allow her to remake herself and rebuild herself because, frankly, she's dedicating herself, really, to a greater good that we need. PEREIRA: Isn't America about redemption?

WALLACE: It is. We love redemption, right? But we haven't really, as a country, embraced her story in that way. Right?

HOOVER: I sure hope we start.

PEREIRA: I sure hope we do.

WALLACE: We might, and I think the follow through will be key. What does she do? Does she go to school? Does she work with parents? Does she work with the Tyler Clementi Foundation?

BERMAN: And again, you can embrace her message without having to embrace her story. It doesn't have to be a choice to say -

PEREIRA: Or even her politics. Exactly.

WALLACE: In this country, people make horrible mistakes in this country and we've forgiven them. That doesn't mean we say what they did was okay, but we allow them to move on and do greater good.

HOOVER: She was not the only person who did anything wrong, either, so let's just not rehash it at all. Let's not rehash it at all, and let her have her voice and her platform.

BERMAN: She couldn't be impeached. I mean, He was. So it's not like there wasn't judgment all the way around. There was.

PEREIRA: I know.

BERMAN: Interesting.

PEREIRA: What a conversation to have with you both. Thank you so much Kelly, Margaret. Thanks so much for being here with us @THISHOUR. We appreciate it.

HOOVER: Thank you.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, the CDC taking new measures to protect health care workers against Ebola. But will this now be enough to prevent the spread of Ebola in the United States?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Alright, we do have some breaking news out of Spain and it is good news. Teresa Romero Ramos, the Spanish nurse's assistant who caught Ebola, is now clear of the virus. That is the official word now from the doctors at the Madrid Hospital where she's been treated. The all-clear comes after a second test now, all clear.

PEREIRA: Great news to be able to report. Also @THISHOUR, the U.S. is taking a different approach when it comes to dealing with Ebola. The CDC has released new guidelines, and putting them into place for health care workers, those very people who are so vulnerable to the disease. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: The guidelines we're releasing today are updated. They provide an increased margin of safety. They provide a consensus on better protecting health care workers, because even a single health care worker infection is unacceptable.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREIRA: The measures call for repeated training and practice. It also requires protective gear to cover workers from head to toe with no skin exposed. We know that's been an issue. And, also for monitors, sort of a buddy system, to watch them put on the gear and take it off. A short time ago, the National Nurses Union issued a statement welcoming these changes. But added, quote, nevertheless, the optimal standards should be in place tomorrow and, regrettably, they will not be. Lawrence Gostin is a professor of global health at Georgetown University. Really great to have you again with us, professor. First of all, I'm curious if you've had a chance to sort of dig through these new guidelines, and if in your estimation, you believe they go far enough.

PROF. LAWRENCE GOSTIN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Yeah, I think they go far enough. They ought to have been done sooner, I think I agree with the Nurses Union about that. And the fact that we've had two young, brave nurses in the United States infected is completely unacceptable. But this is the gold standard. Rigorous training, full-body protection with no skin exposed, and also, really having somebody monitor you. It actually takes more than an hour to take your gown off because you have to make sure that you don't cross-contaminate yourself. That's a very hard thing. I think we've learned a big lesson. This is not a staph infection, this is Ebola.

BERMAN: Yeah, no one said it's going to be easy, but, you know, easy is not the issue here, safe is. Professor, the CDC, as far as I know, doesn't have a police force. They have no enforcement mechanism here so these new guidelines are -- may be great, but they're just guidelines. It's hospitals in every state, in every city in the country, that need to implement this. How confident are you that they will?

GOSTIN: Well, I mean, I think you've made a really important point, which is most people think the CDC is a regulatory agency. They're not. They can't enforce these guidelines, they just have moral and public health force. So will hospitals abide by them? This time, I think they will because they've had a really rude awakening with the two nurses, but it does underpin something really important, which is that although we have a very advanced health system, it's highly variable.

And in the future, you can see that there are some hospitals that won't abide by the highest standards of care, and so we have to really figure out how we can create incentives for hospitals to have uniform quality control so that any patient anywhere in the country goes to the hospital and the doctor treating them, nurse treating them, is safe and the patient is safe. PEREIRA: Well professor, to that point, you talk about the variables.

I'm curious, you know, we got these guidelines, and again, not an enforcement agency, these are guidelines set out by the CDC. I'm wondering if -- how far they went in terms of talking about everybody within the health care system that potentially would come in contact with this virus. I'm talking about ambulance workers, I'm talking about the people that do the waste removal. I was looking for some guidance on how that waste removal, for example, could be handled.

Do you get a sense that they're going to maybe come out with, I don't know, guidance 2.0 with some of those further details drilling down a bit more?

GOSTIN: Well I think what they'll probably do is have guidance, separates guidance to different constituents. This one is for health care workers, but you're so right. I mean, we've got hazardous waste. We don't really have state-of-the-art, in many places, to be able to safely remove it. And there's also all sorts of legal barriers. You've got to get licenses, you'll recall in the Dallas case, they claimed that they couldn't decontaminate the apartment because they didn't get a license to move the hazardous waste. We have to prethink these things before our a crisis, and not just go by the seat of our pads during a crisis.

BERMAN: Now is a good time to start actually - is a good time have started awhile ago, at this point. Professor Lawrence Gostin, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

PEREIRA: Police say two men accused of attacking women, one in Indiana, the other in Virginia, they believe they've been getting away with it for years. We're going to take a look at some of the clues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)