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At This Hour

Live Coverage of Shots Fired on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Canada

Aired October 22, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AMARA WALKER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR : And from what he gathered it was not a police officer or security guard, it looked like just a regular citizen that may have been killed.

The confirmation we have right now at this point is one person has been hit, has been injured. We don't know the condition of this person, but this is the victim who was shot while at the Canadian War Memorial.

We also want to report on a tweet that we are getting or seeing from a member of parliament. His name is Bob Zimmer, and he's saying that he is in the building, that he is OK. He says, quote, "We are OK," and that the lone gunman is deceased.

Josh Wingrove on the line there. Any movement where you are right now?

JOSH WINGROVE, JOURNALIST, OTTAWA, CANADA (via telephone): No, we're still in a holding pattern. As I say, we see people searching the building with their guns drawn. It's very much a fluid situation.

You mentioned the war memorial. That's just half a block down from Centre Block there, the parliament building where we are. It's very close, very -- an area in the heart of Ottawa.

And, again, what I saw was one lifeless body. It did not look like a police officer. We've seen reports now. I have not heard confirmation. We've seen reports that we've had one officer -- there's been one gunman down. I don't know if that's the person I saw or not.

But as I say, the person has been -- I saw a body on the ground in an area where police have been moving towards and firing many shots at, so it was, as you can imagine, a very chaotic moment for everyone.

WALKER: Josh, from the witnesses that you have been talking to throughout the morning, are you getting any information about the suspect? The suspect's description? What he or she was wearing?

Are most people saying that this was a man or a woman? An age range? What kind of gun this person may have been using?

WINGROVE (via telephone): I can't give you anything on that. It's all sort of a guessing game for us here.

As I say, we're locked down right now, so I'm relying on what I can see from this corner of the building, and what I see is an active search going on right now.

WALKER: Wednesday, you say, is a day that, when the members of parliament have these caucus meetings, so what you would expect are all the members of parliament typically to be there.

And we should mention, by the way, that the Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper we're told is safe and has left Parliament Hill.

But from what you gather if this happened around 10:00 in the morning you would gather that there are -- most of the members of parliament are right now currently on lockdown as you are with the other journalists.

WINGROVE (via telephone): Unless they've been taking them out. I know I saw one member who had her young child with her -- infant -- so that might have been sort of a special case.

But as I say, the two biggest parties had their meeting right along the hallway where I saw police chasing or moving and firing, so they were very close to the action.

You're looking at 250 MPs, like senators. It's a lot of people, a lot of parliamentarians, that would have been within earshot of it at this time.

Now, you know, there's nothing to say that this was planned because of that, but certainly at this time, the firing and the gunfire was in a spot where a lot of the MPs and senators were at this time, it being a Wednesday morning.

WALKER: Did you say you saw police officers inside, moving through?

WINGROVE (via telephone): Yes, so there's -- so we have obviously like security around the spots here in parliament, but shortly after the gunfire erupted, tactical officers arrived from the city police department.

They came in through a different door where we were standing, and they sort of ordered the journalists to the ground, told us to put our hands up and get to the ground, pointing their guns at us.

So that gives you a sense, I think, of how fluid it was, a bunch of people with cameras and press passes around their necks sort of being considered briefly as potential threats or something, being told to get on the ground.

WALKER: I have to ask you. I know you're journalist, so you're used to reporting on what's happening and what other people are going through.

But you're there right now locked down, again, as you say, a fluid situation, it's unclear where the shooter is, if the shooter is dead, although we are getting the information from the official twitter account of a member of parliament saying that the lone gunman -- these are his words -- is deceased.

But I've got to ask you -- and here is the tweet from the Canadian parliament member, Bob Zimmer, there. He says that "We are OK," so he's presumably referring to the other members of parliament and other staff members who may be with him right now.

But, I mean, Josh, I've got to ask you, what are you going through? Are you concerned?

WINGROVE (via telephone): Certainly my heart's beating a little faster than it would be. On a normal week, I'd be sitting outside a meeting waiting to ask questions of MPs, so it was certainly a scary moment for everyone involved.

We sort of ran towards the flow of police and try to find cover. There are outposts throughout the building and pillars, large pillars, throughout the building, so police were looking in all these nooks and crannies.

There was gap between the initial gunfire and the culmination that I saw that led to that body on the ground. There was a gap of maybe, I don't know, a minute, but my memory could be off. Needless to say it was quite an ordeal.

And so where the gunman was, if that was the gunman, it's hard to say. We don't know. There's lots of nooks and crannies, hallways, stairwells in buildings, bathrooms, offices that would have been unlocked at that time.

And so there appears to have been a gap. This wasn't a situation of sort of chasing someone with them in your sights kind of thing. There was a gap of maybe a minute or so between that first round of gunfire and the second round of gunfire

I heard what sounded to me like probably two dozen or more shots. It certainly appeared to be mostly from law enforcement aimed at this one individual who had his hands up on the ground.

WALKER: So the first round of gunfire that you heard, the first round of gunfire that you heard, presumably from the suspect who was shooting in the main parliament building, and then the second round of gunfire, Josh, as you heard, you presume it was from police officers who were trying to hunt down the suspect?

WINGROVE (via telephone): So there's a main foyer right in the building, and that's where it seemed to really kick off.

Now the presumption from witnesses, what they gather, is that he came from the doorway in front of that. I suppose he might have come -- there's elevators nearby, there's staircases nearby, so it's too soon to say, you know, for sure where he came from.

I can tell you I didn't see him. There's one hallway going down the main floor of the west wing of the building, and I was there, and he didn't come that way, or the person didn't come that way.

And so, you know, sort of piecing together witness accounts here as quickly as possible -- of course all the witnesses I'm with are journalists and MPs, not a lot of tourists in the building, particularly at this point in time.

WALKER: Josh, let's recap what has been happening throughout the day and exactly where you were when all of this happened.

What were you doing? If you can just walk us through where you were, what you were doing and what transpired thereafter when you first heard the gunshots.

WINGROVE (via telephone): This would have been just before 10:00 a.m., local time. A bunch of us were outside the meeting of the governing party. All the MPs are there.

We had just finished talking to the justice minister about changes, legal changes, that Canada is considering on how to give themselves more power to arrest terror suspects. This comes after an attack a couple days ago here that killed a soldier by a homegrown, radicalized individual ran down two soldiers, killing one of them.

So we just finished discussing sort of Canada looking at more powers to give themselves to arrest suspects, because in that case a couple days ago, they talked to the guy but said they didn't have enough evidence to charge him.

So I was sitting in that hallway as that meeting was ongoing. I was writing a far less dramatic story than the one I've been writing since as things went down. We heard loud bangs. I sort of looked to my left down the hallway to figure out what it was.

It sounded like maybe a -- I don't know what it sounded like. It sounded like a giant bookshelf had fallen down or something. It was a very loud bang as opposed to sort of the subsequent popping that I heard. I don't know whether my ears adjusted, or it was a different gun or whatever.

But the smoke filled the sort of main foyer area. The police were taking cover. There's guns drawn. It was a very fluid situation. The journalists were sort of there with them, and we all sort of were moving down this hallway -- it's called the Hall of Honor -- to the library of parliament.

Police had their guns drawn. There were several, several officers at this point, and it culminated in gunfire there at the end in front of the library of parliament that ended up with a body on the ground.

And at that point, that's when the journalists were pushed out of the way.

WALKER: Yeah. Josh Wingrove, stay on the line with us. Really appreciate all the details and the reporting that you're helping us with there on the ground.

And as you remain on lockdown, I want to bring in Bill Curry now. He's a journalist who covers parliament and federal policy for the "Globe and Mail."

Bill, are you there? If you can hear me, please tell me where you are and what the situation is.

BILL CURRY, JOURNALIST, "GLOBE AND MAIL," OTTAWA, CANADA (via telephone): Right. So I'm just outside the War Memorial, which is kind of across the street from the parliament building.

As soon as we learned that there were shots on Parliament Hill and the War Memorial, I went to the War Memorial and spoke to eyewitnesses here who describe seeing a short man with long, dark hair and a rifle. He fired about four shots at the War Memorial.

And there was a -- we're not sure but we believe it was a member of the Canadian forces -- he was on the ground receiving medical care when I arrived, and they were taken in an ambulance. The witnesses say he was shot.

And then after that happened, the witnesses say that the man kind of ran over a bunch of hedges and bushes, and he ran over the hedges and went straight to Parliament Hill, and some people were hearing cases and that's what we've seen here.

There's a lot of tension because we're still not entirely sure if there's still a shooter on the loose. Last I heard from police about half an hour ago, they said yes, there was still a shooter on the loose, and police were crouching behind their cars.

I noticed some unconfirmed reports from the MPs and twitter that perhaps the shooter was caught. I'm not sure what the situation is on that yet.

WALKER: Yeah, but we have not confirmed that information yet. Is the shooter still on the loose, or is he or she indeed deceased, as the member of parliament Bill Zimmer has been tweeting, quote, that "the lone gunman is deceased" and that "we are OK," referring to the other people who are with him right now.

We do hear the activity behind you on the line there, Bill, obviously a very active scene as police are descending upon the area.

What more can you tell us, Bill, about the victim? What did the witnesses see, and was this indeed a Canadian soldier?

CURRY (via telephone): The witnesses say the man went down immediately and it didn't look good, like it was -- he was shot and went down and received medical care, so we don't know the status.

I know there were reports that people heard other police talking about a DMD, a military person, being the victim so that information is out there but not confirmed yet. That's all we know here.

But in terms of the scene at the moment, I mean there's still police kind of walked around quickly. You probably just heard a police car zoom by here really fast. So certainly the body language of the police on scene is very tense. They're protecting their bodies, standing behind pillars, that kind, so if in fact the situation is defused, it certainly doesn't look like it. WALKER: You say you spoke to witnesses. I'm curious to know how many

people were there when the shots first rang out just before 10:00 this morning, local time. How crowded was it?

CURRY (via telephone): I'm not entirely sure. It wasn't very crowded when I got there. I spoke to about three people who saw it. It was a tourist, a man and another woman.

But generally the War Memorial is not a very busy place other than on Remembrance Day in November it attracts a big crowd, but it's a big kind of statue in the central part of the city, and I think normally in the morning there's a ceremony that involves certain members of the military.

But normally it's not something that is off limits from the public. It's kind of -- it's a piece of triangular concrete space that's surrounded by three roads. It's wide open. This is not an off-limits location.

WALKER: Bill, you say that the witnesses tell you there at the national war memorial, which is very close to Parliament Hill, that they heard four shots being fired.

What's the indication? Did this suspect walk directly up to this victim? Was this victim targeted, or was the suspect shooting indiscriminately?

CURRY (via telephone): I'm just speculating here, and so are the witnesses, but it sounds like there was another person nearby the person who was shot, and they were not shot. So kind of piecing all the little strands together, it kind of seems like they were targeted.

But, I mean, everything happened very fast with the witnesses so they're not entirely sure how. The police are yelling something right now, and people are running away so something is happening right now.

WALKER: Bill, yeah, you should probably listen to officers if they're telling you to leave and take cover, because the information we're getting right now from police there on the ground is that they believe one or more shooters -- shooters -- are currently on the parliament roof there.

So if you're seeing people around you running or taking cover or police officers telling you to leave, I think it would behoove you to do so. Is that what you're getting from the people there on the ground?

CURRY (via telephone): It just calmed down. Somebody yelled something, but everybody's staying put. I'm seeing police running with with their pistols pulled.

WALKER: Bill, if you need to go -- go ahead.

CURRY (via telephone): I think I'm okay where I'm at at the moment. As I'm looking out at the war memorial, which is behind the yellow tape, there are -- I'm seeing several police officers kind of behind cement pillars for protection with their guns drawn. So obviously, something is happening right now. But at the moment, everybody's just staying put, nobody's being told to move further.

WALKER: Okay, so as you're seeing police hiding behind pillars or taking cover, rather, behind these pillars, as we are getting from police right now that they believe one or more shooters may, right now, be on the roof of the Parliament building. So this is clearly a very active situation, a very fluid situation, because just a few moments ago we saw a tweet from a Member of Parliament saying that he believed there was just one gunman and that he was, indeed, dead inside the main Parliament building. So now, it looks like there is another threat that police officers are trying to diffuse at this point. What about the people there on the streets, Bill? Are they taking cover? Is it pretty empty? Are they listening to police officers' orders to leave the area?

CURRY (via telephone): Well, the streets around the war memorial were cleared earlier, but police are running around - oh, and there's - we're getting a whistle here. Okay, we're being told to move away from our current locations, so. Um, okay, so -- since we've spoken it's gotten a lot more tense here.

WALKER: Clearly a much more tense situation. As we're hearing those reports of possibly a shooter or shooters right now on the roof. Bill, if you can try to stay on the line, please do, if you can not, we completely understand. We want you to be safe above anything else, so please take cover, do what you need to do.

And in the meantime, we want to go back over to Josh Wingrove who has been on the line with, us as well, he's a local journalist who was actually covering this Wednesday's session of Parliament. There were caucuses going on and, Josh, what's the situation there now, because you are inside the building as all of this chaos is taking place outside. You can see in these live pictures a police officer running there on the screen to take cover behind a police car, as we're hearing from police that there may be shooters on the Parliament's roof. Josh, anything new that you can tell us?

WINGROVE: Uh, can you hear me?

WALKER: Yes.

WINGROVE: I can't tell you whether there's any shooters on the roof, we're still in this lockdown inside the building. During major events on Parliament Hill, there will be men with guns on the roof, but of course they're law enforcement, rather than a threat, so if there are people seeing people with guns on the roof, that could be it. Again, all we know right now is that we're in lockdown, it certainly appears to be being searched still. We're being told to stay away from windows. And that's sort of been the situation.

WALKER: We're taking a look at these live pictures right now on your screen. Just a few seconds ago, quite dramatic. We saw police officer there with their guns drawn, running across the street, as media and the crowds standing out there are watching all of this unfold. It makes you wonder why some of these people out on the streets are not taking cover if these reports are, indeed, true that there may be more shooters, one or two or more shooters, currently on the Parliament roof. So obviously the situation remains fluid, things are changing quickly. But right now police remain on the scene in Parliament Hill as there are reports of an active shooter or shooters. But again, we have do have Josh Wingrove on the line who, ironically, you were talking to the Justice Minister about granting him more powers to make arrests for suspected terrorists, and this is all coming on the heels of a deadly incident that happened, I believe that was Monday or Friday, correct me if I'm wrong, Josh, but there was a soldier who was killed after he was run over by a suspected Jihadist, and then that led the government to raise the terror threat level alert from low to medium, right?

WINGROVE: Yeah, now, yeah that was on Monday and this was a Canadian guy who had been going down this path only recently and he had been posting on Facebook of wanting to go abroad and fight, I believe, in Syria but I'm not - I can't quite recall. Needless to say, he was on police radar pretty quick. And so they talked -- they nabbed him at the airport in July trying to go to Turkey. Which is, of course, in the region there - you know, he might want to end up Syria, and they didn't let him go, but they didn't have enough to charge him. And so what they were talking about this morning, the Justice Minister was talking about considering expanding powers which, of course, raises civil liberty questions. And I'm sorry, we're just being moved further away from with the windows, here, as this is going. They're talking about giving them more power to arrest these guys or hold these guys without a charge, and you know, not 10 minutes later --

WALKER: Josh, hold on, I'm sorry, let me jump in there because obviously we're getting more information right now. There's a frenzy outside Parliament Hill and what we're getting is from Ottawa police, they are saying that they, currently, are dealing with two or three gunmen at this time. So clearly, a present threat right now, as we have been seeing these dramatic images live on television coming from Ottawa. Police running with their guns drawn.

The crowds being told to take cover, to move away from specific areas. We see a picture here on the left there with a man in a suit being led out by a police officer, it's unclear if there is an evacuation underway from some of these Parliament buildings, as Josh Wingrove, a journalist there on the ground, who is currently on lockdown in one of those buildings, says that Wednesday is the day when the Members of Parliament, they are all there for the caucuses and he's currently on lockdown with at least one Member of Parliament, but it remains to be seen if the Members of Parliament are in the building, are they being let out. We do know that the Canadian Prime Minister, Steven Harper, he is safe, we are being told, and has left the shooting area safely.

If you're just joining us, we want to recap what has been going on, a dramatic morning there in Ottawa. This all began just before 10:00 local time at the National War Memorial. A gunman, showing up, according to witnesses, with a rifle and, according to witnesses, firing four shots at an apparent soldier who was there at the war memorial. They described the suspect to be a short man with long hair. This is according to journalist Bill Curry who is there right now on the ground. He says -- he says that an ambulance actually took the victim away and the victim did not look good.

These are tweets now from the police and you can see here the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and you can read this on your screen right now. It says RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, advises people to stay away from Parliament Hill due to ongoing police incident. This -- here's another one. RCMP advises if you are in downtown Ottawa to stay away from windows and off roofs, due to ongoing police incident. We keep hearing the word ongoing, so obviously the situation is continuing to develop. But Josh Wingrove, if you're there on the line, clearly the situation has not been diffused.

It's not over yet, even though we did see a tweet a few moments ago from a Member of Parliament who thought there was just one gunman and that gunman was dead. Are you getting any information or direction from where you are right now locked down inside the main Parliament building?

WINGROVE: We are still in lockdown here. We have no updates, yet, to give you. I'm afraid it's sort of a very fluid situation. We've been here maybe a half an hour or so, and maybe more than that and they've been kept away from windows with security around us. Again, it seems to be a very active situation here. Still searching the very big building, lots of hallways and staircases and places that someone could hide if they wanted to, so we're sort of in lockdown here and no one's being let in or out of the building.

WALKER: So you're also being told to stay away from windows, as are the citizens there who live in the downtown Ottawa area. We want to show you -- let's listen in to an interview with a witness on the scene. Is this a witness or is this a Member of Parliament? Okay, we're going to listen to sound from somebody who was inside the Parliament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE SIMPSON, REPORTER, CTV: I'm joined now by liberal MP John McKay. You were inside when this happened. Take me through what happened this morning.

JOHN MCKAY, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Well, literally, I was just taking off my jacket to go into caucus, I hear this pop, pop, pop, possibly ten shots, don't really know. Thought it was dynamite, or construction rather than anything else. Suddenly the security guards come rushing down the hallway, usher us all to the back of the Parliament building. And we're standing around talking and one of the construction people says -- said to us, well, probably a better idea to stand behind one of the monuments, so that if there's somebody inside shooting out, then we got a bit better chance.

And then we started talking to another woman and she was apparently inside the Parliament -- inside the Library of Parliament, saw the fellow wearing a hoodie, carrying a gun, and then the implications of this start to sink in because in order to be able to be in that position, you have to walk down the Hall of Honor. The Hall of Honor on the one side is the NDP caucus, and the other side is the Conservative caucus. How somebody gets a rifle walking down the Hall of Honor, standing inside the Library of Parliament will be an interesting piece of investigation. After that, we got ushered off of the Hill, and then we find out about the soldier and this is kind of a day that changes everything.

SIMPSON: Was there a sense of urgency inside Parliament Hill? Did people understand what was going on or was it simply just unbelievable?

MCKAY: Well, you kind of suspend it. You're just doing what you're told to do. You're not really emotionally reacting. I, frankly, didn't start to emotionally react until I was on Wellington St. It's bizarre, it's like something you've never experienced before. So people were relatively calm and, you know, there was no sense of panic. There was one woman who was crying, but beyond that there doesn't seem to be a great sense of panic

SIMPSON: Now, is there any sort of communication between, you know, you're a member of the liberal party, or is everyone checking in to make sure everyone's accounted for? What's happening behind the scenes?

MCKAY: We'd like to check in, except that the lines are so jammed with everybody communicating messages it's hard to get through. But I have talked to my staff. They were still in my office in the justice building, hadn't been evacuated yet, so as far as my staff is concerned, they're accounted for.

SIMPSON: Now, we're hearing that some MPs were told to hide, told to go into sort of a lockdown mode or security mode. Have you heard anything about that?

MCKAY: I haven't. I haven't. But I can't be surprised, especially if they haven't accounted for the people with the gun or guns, I don't know whether there's one or two or there's more. I just don't know.

SIMPSON: Now, you said that this is a day that changes everything. Can you speak to that? And you said you didn't really start to feel emotion about this until you came outside and recognized it. Can you describe, as a Member of Parliament, how you're feeling right now?

MCKAY: Well, this -- Parliament is the people's house. Ultimately, it is the house of our democracy, however imperfect. And access is kind of fundamental. People have to be able to feel free to access their seat of democracy and also the people that represent them. And I don't really want to think about - but I'm going to be forced to think about the implications of heightened security, all of the stuff that we will do in the name of security, and the way it will impact our dialogue and how we live in this country. And I just am a little nervous about where that conversation might go, because you can fall into some pretty major trends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Okay, we were just listening in to that Member of Parliament. It looks like he was escorted out, and it's unclear how many more Members of Parliament have been able to get out of that building as the shooter, shooting, was under way. We want to report some new information now. Ottawa police saying that there were numerous gunmen on Wednesday morning when the shooting began at the Canada War Memorial, and that there have been multiple shootings.

So, again, an active situation as right now police are searching for the gunmen who are involved in the shooting. And it looks like it may have turned deadly, as you heard from our journalist inside the main Parliament building, he was telling me over the phone that he did see a body and to him it definitely looked like this person was dead in the hallway of this main Parliament building. I want to bring in Steven Chase now, a journalist with "Globe and Mail." Steven, where are you and what can you tell us?

STEVEN CHASE, JOURNALIST, GLOBE & MAIL: I'm about two blocks from the Parliament Hill. It's an office building - there's a lot of office buildings around here. The streets are pretty much deserted. The police have continually widened and cordoned off area. And everyone's been ordered inside. The streets are full of police are full of police cars and mobile operating centers and it's pretty quiet.

WALKER: So you're not seeing people out there on the streets?