Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Shots Fired in Canada's Parliament Building; Interview with Two Canadian Parliament Members

Aired October 22, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: What's been happening there with this active shooting incident. I'm Amara Walker. CNN's continuing coverage continues now with Ashleigh Banfield.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin with this breaking news. We've got incredible video of a shooting possibly involving numerous gunmen inside Canada's parliament in Ottawa this morning.

So Ottawa police are now saying there were several shooting incidents this morning, not just one. But they included a shooting at the Canadian War Memorial, not far from Parliament Hill. And then it continued to Parliament Hill. Authorities are working to figure out if there were two or perhaps three gunmen.

The CBC, which is one of CNN's news gathering partners, says that there was a soldier standing guard at the memorial who was shot. Police are asking the public right now to stay away from the downtown area. The parliament building and all Ottawa police buildings are closed to the public. In fact, they are on lockdown presently.

President Obama has been briefed, we are told, about what's happening right now in Ottawa, the nation's capital, that's Canada's capital. The briefing is apparently an ongoing situation we're told as well.

On the phone with me right now is CNN Canadian correspondent Paula Newton, whose husband is in the diplomatic core and was in Ottawa when these shootings happened.

What more do you know, Paula?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone); Well, I do know that all government buildings in the area remain on lockdown. Now, my husband's actually quite far. You're talking a mile or two from these buildings. But right now, with the situation so tense, they do not know how many gunmen are still out there. And it seems, Ashleigh, that what police are investigating now are simultaneous shootings.

So, if I can map this out for you, you have the parliament building. After that, about a short five-minute walk in one direction, you have a mall. They are investigating another shooting near that mall. In the other direction, the downtown core, they're investigating possibly another shooting near a hotel. And as you can see from the picture you're looking at now, all of these are in walking distance. But the problem, Ashleigh, is that right now they do not know how many gunmen are in the downtown core and there are so many government buildings in this area. They have no idea who else may be targeted right now or who they are possibly looking for.

The situation, I can tell you, very tense all over the city. Schools have gone into secure mode. My children's school has been locked down. The point here is that, still, authorities, on Parliament Hill and outside of Parliament Hill, have no idea what kind of situation they're dealing with.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Paula, if you could stand by for a moment. I want to bring in one of the members of parliament, David McGuinty, who's live on the phone for us right now.

Mr. McGuinty (ph), if you could tell us perhaps what the circumstance you're currently in is? Are you on - in lockdown? Are you actually on the hill?

DAVID MCGUINTY, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT (via telephone): Yes, I am. I'm in a building which is two buildings over from the center block of Canada's parliamentary precinct. And I am locked down in my office with my personnel until further notice.

BANFIELD: And what does that mean? Locked down means stay away from windows? Are you getting regular briefings or are you as in the dark as so many people are right now during this active situation?

MCGUINTY: We're in some - we're in some - we're in the dark. However, we've been told to keep all doors locked, lower blinds, stay away from windows. That there may still be a gunman on the street outside the -- on Wellington Street, which is the main street where our parliamentary buildings are located. We've been told that there may be three shooters. We've been told that there may have been a shooting at a mall, a shopping mall, which is just located - with a stone's throw from the war memorial, where one of our Canadian forces officers or personnel was shot. So there are a lot of unknowns.

BANFIELD: So, Mr. McGuinty, I just got off the phone with Heather McDonald (ph), who is a member of the legislative assembly of Manitoba and very well connected with many of the people on the hill, and she's telling me that the phone lines are jammed. That it is very difficult to get a call in or out if you're on a landline or a cell line. Is that the experience you're having as well?

MCGUINTY: It is. It's very difficult to get e-mail in and out. We don't know if that's volume or whether something else is at play. But I drove up this morning to attend our caucus meeting. And as I was driving, there was a - what appeared to be an abandoned vehicle. A Toyota or perhaps a Nissan that was blocking the lane. And I pulled up to it to go around it. Noticed that I could not see any license plates on it. And the car was empty. There were no flashers going. I thought that was extremely strange. I went around it and then tried to get through the security area to get my vehicle up to -- behind the center block and I could not proceed because by that time the shootings had begun.

BANFIELD: Do you know if that Toyota or Nissan with no license plates that you encountered, unoccupied and parted askew, has anything to do with this incident?

MCGUINTY: Not confirmed, but the reports here internally are it's somehow linked to the individual or individuals involved. It's just extremely unlikely that a vehicle like that would be parked without flashers, without someone standing behind it or beside it and it just wouldn't - it wouldn't remain there for very long.

BANFIELD: And just to set the scene for so many of our Americans and those from around the world who have joined our coverage as well, Mr. McGuinty, the parliament buildings are vast and beautiful and they are very public. People can be all over the lawns at any time picnicking, visiting. It's not like the White House. It's not cordoned off. But when you get to the doors, how does that change at the doors?

MCGUINTY: Well, at the doors, we have security guards who are effectively unarmed and they will only allow through the doors members of parliament or their personnel who are properly carded. Public visitors have to go through a security screening system right below our peace tower, which is part of our center block. And beneath it they are screened through a security screening for metal detectors and beyond. And from that point they are allowed to circulate with tours and so on inside the parliament, the main parliament building.

Our main parliamentary building at the center block houses both our House of Commons, which would be the U.S. House of Representatives, and our Senate. So they are one in the same building at either end of the building. And so at any one time you have hundreds of MPs and senators inside the building. And today in particular you have a concentration of MPs and senators because it's caucus day. It's when all the parties meet for several hours. Usually between 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning and noon. So you would have in that building at the same time a real high concentration of most of our parliamentarians, if not all of them.

BANFIELD: Remarkable to think that unarmed guards are, you know, what is between these potential killers, these gunmen, and getting inside to the House of Commons and the Senate.

Mr. McGuinty, could you hold for just one moment? I want to bring in one of your colleagues, another member of parliament named Marc Garneau. I hope I've pronounced that right.

Mr. Garneau, can you tell me your current situation?

MARC GARNEAU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT (via telephone): Yes. I'm no longer in the parliament buildings. I was there at the time when the shots were first fired. As David said, we were all gathering for caucus and we were evacuated out the back where we were held for about 25 minutes. We saw the prime minister leaving in his cavalcade of cars. And we were then escorted away from the hill as things unfolded.

BANFIELD: And I'm going to say your name more properly, Marc Garneau, I'm assuming, from the spelling now that I'm seeing it.

GARNEAU: Yes.

BANFIELD: Mr. Garneau, you saw Prime Minister Stephen Harper evacuated in a motorcade. Can you describe that scene?

GARNEAU: Well, it is every day when the prime minister comes and leave the parliament building, there are three armored SUVs that escort him on and off the hill and they appeared very quickly after we were evacuated and we saw them behind parliament buildings on their way off the hill.

BANFIELD: And then what happened to you? When you were in the midst of this scenario, how did you become evacuated? Did you get in the building or did you get nowhere close?

GARNEAU: No, we stayed outside the building. We could smell, believe it or not, as doors were opened, we could smell the gunpowder from these shots that were fired and the - we -- policemen and security people began to appear and they were holding machine guns. So obviously security people were mobilizing because it wasn't very clear what was going on inside the building. We've since found out, as you know, that one of these shooters has been killed. But it was never very clear, it still isn't very clear, whether more than one came into the building.

And to follow up on what my colleague, David, said, the security at the doors were MPs and senators come in is - is that they are not armed. So if a terrorist wanted to get into the building, they could just basically push their way through and brandish their weapons. And that is probably what happened. Whether it's more than one person, I'm not sure. And also I know that some of my colleagues have offices in that building and I think they probably locked themselves in that building.

BANFIELD: I want to just report some news, if I - if I can, Mr. Garneau. I'm going to ask you to hold on for a moment.

NORAD has now increased its alert posture. CNN is being told that apparently NORAD has increased the number of planes that are currently on higher alert status and ready to respond should NORAD need to respond. Apparently NORAD also in continuous contact with Canadian law enforcement, Canadian authorities as well. CNN learning this just within the last few moments.

A spokesperson for NORAD, Captain Jeff Davis (ph) with the U.S. Navy, says that, quote, "we have taken the appropriate measures to ensure that NORAD is postured to respond quickly if the ongoing situation in Ottawa should include any effect on aviation."

I want to bring back in David McGuinty as well. And, Mr. Garneau, if you could stand by as well. I am speaking with two members of parliament who are currently in Ottawa, who have been either at the scene, adjacent to the scene or evacuated from the scene.

Mr. McGuinty, do you know anything different than the reports that were coming out just within the last half hour that there may still be gunmen on the roof potentially even of the parliament buildings? Is there any other information that you're getting?

MCGUINTY: Well, the only other information we got is from a major newspaper here called "The Globe and Mail." They are reporting that there may have been three shootings, including a shooting at Rideau (ph) Street or perhaps even the Rideau Center, which is a major shopping compound -- complex. And like I say, we've been told about 15, 20 minutes, half an hour ago perhaps, to shut the blinds, keep the windows closed, stay away from the windows, that this situation is not over yet. And it --

BANFIELD: Can I get you to repeat that? Did you just say there's another potential shooting at the Rideau shopping complex?

MCGUINTY: That's what "The Globe and Mail" is reporting, that there may have been a shooting at that complex.

BANFIELD: Completely unrelated to the war memorial shootings and the shootings within the hallway of the hill?

MCGUINTY: No. They're not saying it's unrelated. They're saying that there may have been a - there may have been three shootings in total.

BANFIELD: All right. I'm just going to get some quick information out. CNN is making lightning flash calls and apparently as we were just speaking, Mr. McGuinty, we've heard from the mall. That Rideau Mall is now saying there was no shooting, but that they are as well on lockdown at this time.

And, Mr. Garneau, can you still hear me, sir?

GARNEAU: I can.

BANFIELD: Mr. Garneau, another member of parliament in Ottawa.

GARNEAU: Yes, I can hear you loud and clear.

BANFIELD: So I'm going to repeat the same question to you. The information flow that you are getting, is it any different from Mr. McGuinty, who's also speaking with us from the area of Parliament Hill in Canada? Any information flow that has changed from those initial reports that there could be as many as three gunmen, possibly even somewhere on the roof of the Parliament Hill buildings?

GARNEAU: What you're saying about the roof is correct. We have been told that - to -- if we're nearby, to stay away from windows. We have also heard that there may be as many as three people. I don't know where the other two are. One has been killed. The other two could be anywhere in the general area of the Parliament Hill. The Rideau Center is right adjacent to it. So it's very nearby. Ottawa University is right nearby and it is in lockdown as well. So I think that all of the major areas where there are people are taking precautions at the moment because there may still be two people out there who have not been caught.

BANFIELD: I'm going to ask you both if I could, sirs, to stand by. I've got two members of parliament, David McGuinty and Marc Garneau, on the line live with me right now.

And I want to read to you both some of the reporting that's coming into our Elise Labott who has been in contact with a U.S. official who says that the latest information from the Canadian government to the U.S. government is that one shooter is dead and that so far there is, quote, "no indication that that shooter has ties to violent Islamic extremism." But the source also stressed that it is still extremely early in this investigation.

The U.S. official also being told what CNN is also aware of and what you have also witnessed, that the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, has been evacuated and is currently safe.

But the question I'm going to pose to both of you, and, Mr. McGuinty, if you can field this question first, have you been getting information otherwise, that perhaps there may be some connection to Monday's hit-and-run in which a soldier was killed by a recently radicalized extremist?

MCGUINTY: No, not at all. There's been no information made available to me to suggest there's any kind of a connection in it. For me personally it's reminiscent of I think what took place on the morning of 9/11. It was a lot of confusion. And Information is hard to piece together.

And I remember that because I unfortunately or fortunately I was in Washington in the morning of 9/11, starting a three-week trip across the United States to meet with American officials and business people all across the U.S. and it reminds me very much of the confusion at the very time I was there when no one was able to say what was happening next and there was a lot of fear, as there is here, I'm sure, in the area and right across the city and in the country.

BANFIELD: I have a picture that I want to put up just before I come to you with the question, Mr. Garneau, and that is, the first picture that's come out just there, adjacent to the ambulance, is the soldier who was wounded. I believe this is the soldier who's wounded at the War Memorial. There were two uniformed guards at the War Memorial. Because when this all began shortly at 10:00 Eastern this morning, one of them was shot.

Witnesses say by someone who look like he had a long arm, some kind of a rifle, before that suspect took off from the war memorial and made his way to the very close parliament buildings, ultimately you've seen some of the remarkable video that's played out inside the hallways of the parliament buildings, particularly that center parliament building that houses the House of Commons and the Senate. The equivalent of the House and the Senate in the United States.

All in one building, on Parliament Hill. And as that picture turned, it's that center complex, the center complex over on the left of your screen, Parliament Hill. So we're now being told that that is the soldier who was injured who was loaded into that ambulance. We're not sure of that soldier's condition at this time.

Our thoughts certainly go out to them, Mr. Garneau. I want to pose that same question to you, though, about the radicalization and the possibility that this still could end up being a terrorist incident despite the fact our Elise Labott is reporting from a source, a U.S. official saying that the Canadians are telling the Americans at this point that a shooter is dead and that there's no indication the shooter had ties to violent Islamic extremism.

How does that set with you, Mr. Garneau?

GARNEAU: Well, as you know in this country, there are a number of Canadians who are being investigated for possible terrorist links. I am just speculating here but I'm wondering whether this -- if they have identified the person that has been killed and whether that person was on the list or is somebody that was not on the list. But possibly we'll find out in the days to come whether that person had any links to terrorism.

I think it's too early to speculate. He may just not have been on a known list. But that doesn't rule out the possibility that -- that this was a terrorist act committed.

BANFIELD: I have some news I want to report at this moment. I'm going to ask our control room in Atlanta, if they could please queue up the video that we had earlier in this newscast. We're going to try to work on getting some of that video. We're going to work on getting some of that video that we've come in contact with showing the shooting inside the hallways of Capitol Hill. We'll queue that up for you as soon as we can.

At the same time, I want to tell you I just got off the phone with a very high level diplomatic source, a Canadian diplomatic source, who tells me that the doors to the Canadian embassy in Washington are locked. Officially locked down. Confirmation that the Canadian staff located here in the United States locked down. That from a high level diplomatic source here in the United States.

And as you're seeing some of these remarkable video that's been playing out, there are so many people who have been able to capture different areas and different circumstances, and as we get them, I can't tell you exactly where they are. This could be the Rideau Mall. This could be one of the areas adjacent to the War Memorial. Just hard for me to tell at this point. But we're also watching live pictures as they develop as some of the SWAT action around Parliament Hill.

And I want to remind our viewers here in the United States and around the world, this is still an active situation. The Canadian parliament is on lockdown. Senators, members of parliament, all of their staffers, everyone involved with working in those -- that collection of buildings on Capitol Hill, the -- the equivalent of Capitol Hill, it is called Parliament Hill in Ottawa, all on lockdown.

Many, if not all of them, being told draw your shades, turn out the lights, stay low, stay low away from windows. Schools being closed down in this area.

Our Paula Newton, who is a correspondent with CNN based in Ottawa, telling us her children's schools are on lockdown. An extraordinary serious and remarkable situation playing out in the nation's capital in Canada at this time. And again, I am still joined by two of these members of parliament who

are in this circumstance on lockdown and awaiting any information as to whether those gunmen have been tracked, have been captured, or are still on the loose.

David McGuinty, a member of parliament, as well as Marc Garneau, member of parliament.

And David McGuinty, if I can just ask you, how many staff members are with you and what exactly do you know you're supposed to be doing right now other than staying low? Are you being told any timeline? Do you have a number you can contact? Have you contacted your family?

MCGUINTY: Well, first of all, I have two members of staff with me and we are locked in our offices. We've been told to lay low, to not leave the office, to not stand in front of windows, to lower the blinds.

Yes, I've been able to contact my immediate family. I think most of us have been able to. We are getting some updates but we're on standby waiting for our next instructions as to what we should and shouldn't be doing. So no one is allowed outside. No one is walking the streets. And this is a very -- it's a very disturbing and frightening moment.

BANFIELD: Well, Mr. McGuinty, if I can interrupt you only for a moment, I just want to remind our viewers, as you're in the dark literally, and with regard to information about this, U.S. officials have told our Elise Labott that the Canadian government has informed them that one shooter at least is dead and that there's no indication that shooter had ties to violent extremism, Islamic extremism.

But at the same time, there is still potentially an active shooting with possibly one or more shooters they are trying to track at this time. Perhaps the best source is the actual source on the ground, the Ottawa police who have taken what seems to be a lead role in this emergency in Ottawa.

I'm joined by Constable Marc Soucy.

Constable Soucy, what can you tell me to update the current situation?

MARC SOUCY, OTTAWA POLICE: There's not much except to the part that we're still actively looking for the suspects. We've had three shooting incidents and the Ottawa Police and the Royal Canadian Mountain Police are investigating those shootings. The location of the shootings were the National War Memorial where it all started and one near the Rideau Center and one on Parliament Hill.

BANFIELD: So the Rideau Center is confirmed by the Ottawa Police to have been a shooting scene as well as Parliament Hill and the War Memorial?

SOUCY: Yes. We can confirm there were three shooting incidents.

BANFIELD: And can you tell me anything about the Rideau Center shooting? Was anyone hurt? Is anyone being tracked there? What -- where does that take this now growing incident?

SOUCY: Well, no one was hurt near the Rideau Center. We're -- like I said, we're actively following leads as to where those suspects may be and that's why the downtown core is still in the lockdown mode. And we're still asking people to stay away from windows and rooftops so that the officers can properly search the area.

BANFIELD: And at the same time, Constable Soucy, we're seeing video of what appears to be emergency evacuations from some of the parliament buildings. I don't know if you're able to confirm for me which ones that -- are being evacuated, who is being evacuated, and where they're being evacuated to, if the entire downtown core is on lockdown?

SOUCY: Yes. Without seeing the pictures that you're talking about, it's pretty hard for me to say where it's at. Some buildings have been evacuated. Some of them are placed on buses and taken away from the area where they can be reunited with their family or find their way home.

BANFIELD: And at this point, can you tell me -- obviously understanding that there are a lot of things you cannot say as this could be active, but can you tell me the strategy at this point other than the fact that the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mountain Police and the Ottawa Police, are engaged in trying to track this shooter and maintain some kind of a safe perimeter, what else is afoot? What other agencies might be joining this effort?

And how much broader is this effort now expanding than just these buildings knowing now that we've gone from one incident to two and now to three incidents near that Rideau Mall?

SOUCY: Yes. There's been in National Capital. Yes, we have a lot of agencies that we are partnered with and we would be in contact with them and with them to us to offer any assistance that they can. And -- for example, the House of Commons has their own police force. So they would be assisting us and we would be assisting them, and just across the river we have the city of Gatineau and they are helping us to -- by keeping an eye on the bridges and so on.

BANFIELD: So are those bridges closed or are they just being monitored?

SOUCY: Some of them are closed. The ones closest to parliament would be closed and others are being monitored.

BANFIELD: I'm sorry. I'm just getting some new information, Constable. If you could bear with me for a moment.

We've got a statement now from Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper that comes to us directly from Jason McDonald, the director of Communications for the Office of the Prime Minister. And this is what Stephen Harper is saying publicly. Again, he was evacuated and is in a safe location.

"Earlier today there was an attack at the National War Memorial on Parliament Hill. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who were attacked. The prime minister is safe and not on Parliament Hill and being briefed by security officials. The police continue to do their important work and we are still gathering the facts. The prime minister will make a statement later today. The details are to follow."

And I'll just add as well that the CTV, the Canadian national television network, the CTV, which is one of CNN's news gathering partners, is reporting that, of course, all of the prime minister's events for the day have been canceled, which I think would be an obvious in a circumstance such as this.

Constable Soucy, I just want to continue on that vein of the bridges that you said, the ones that are closed to Parliament Hill are effectively closed. What else, in that vein, is happening to try to at least close off what is happening and not allow it to expand any further outside this downtown core where Parliament Hill is located?

SOUCY: Well, every available officer that's engaged on this -- on this incident, and we're trying to keep the perimeter closed and allowing people that can leave to leave it and not allowing people to enter.

BANFIELD: And how long is that expected to go on for? At this point, is it just -- it's wide open and this is just a series of unknowns?

SOUCY: Yes. There's no timeline for this. Again, our main concern is the safety of everyone involved. So until we exhaust all leads to locate the suspects in this matter, will -- the perimeter will be closed to outsiders and people will remain in lockdown.

BANFIELD: This goes without saying -- and this is not to sound trite, in the least. In fact, I'm a Canadian citizen as well. And I spend a lot of time, I lost a lot of my life in Canada. This is a highly, highly unusual scene to be witnessing, especially in a place like Ottawa, despite the fact that it is the nation's capital, that it would be the scene of much needed security. But at a time where Canada has just signed on to the fight against ISIS, to the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS, the threats have been made by ISIS to attack Canadians as well.

And there is no connection at this early stage that this is a result of violent Islamic extremism. But this has got to be a very unnerving situation, even for someone like you who deals with incidents anyway. This must feel different, the extent that it is and the place that it is and the penetration that these perpetrators were able to access inside the halls of the House of Commons and the Canadian Senate.

SOUCY: Yes. I mean, it is. I mean, it all started a few days ago with the other incident where a soldier was hit by a car and killed. Our police chief heightened the alertness of the police department and we were all told to be more vigilant and to be on the lookout for similar incidents.

BANFIELD: We're continuing to roll these live pictures, Constable Soucy. And to remind our viewers, Constable Soucy is with us from the Ottawa

Police. Constable Marc Soucy has also told us that the responding agencies, more than likely the people on your screen right now who positioned, literally positioned to the skies, to the streets looking for any sign of what might be two residual active shooters, the report is that one shooter has been killed but with reports saying it could be up to three shooters on location.

This is a very tense time for those who are in law enforcement, clearly, and for those who are holed up on lockdown on Canada's Parliament Hill. The equivalent of the U.S. capitol, the U.S. Senate. Everything is located in the location that you're seeing on your screen. In fact, one building among the many parliament buildings houses both the House of Commons, equivalent to the U.S. House, and the Canadian Senate.