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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Canadian Parliament Shooting Details; Interview with Canadaian Parliamentarian

Aired October 22, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The House of Commons, equivalent to the U.S. House, and the Canadian Senate.

I want to re-welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I want to reset the scene that you're seeing right now. It has been a very tense two and a half hours in Canada's capital city of Ottawa. We're zooming into the pictures on your screen of the parliament buildings, a collection of government buildings in the capital that are on official lockdown.

Effectively hundreds of people from staffers all the way up to ministers and members of parliament on lockdown in those buildings, being told draw your shades, turn off the lights and stay down. No one leaves, no one gets in. The potential is that there could be up to two more active shooters, even potentially on the rooftops of those buildings.

And as we zoom out to a larger picture, it is a downtown core of Ottawa, of what is a beautiful and mostly quiet and peaceful city in Ottawa. But for today, after 10:00 Eastern Time, dozens of shots, according to witnesses, ringing out, not just at the War Memorial where this began where effectively an officer, a member of the Canadian forces was shot.

We're unclear of that officer's condition but two guards were set upon by what witnesses describe as a rifleman holding a long arm of some type who then took off on foot at a high rate of speed and was able to somehow access through the security of the front doors of the center parliament building, was able to get inside and actually fire off a number of rounds, and as luck would have it, the cameras were rolling at that moment.

I want to play for you exactly what it looked like and sounded like when the shots began to fire in those halls.

And so there you have it. That's the best recording from Canada's -- one of their Canadian leading newspaper, the "Globe and Mail," with some cameras rolling as those shots rang out and the bad fortune of being inside that building meant that you were witness to it. And the Deputy House Leader Kevin Lamoureux, was in that center building, on Parliament Hill when those shots rang out.

And as I understand it, Mr. Lamoureux, you're with me now live on the phone. Can you describe what that was like? KEVIN LAMOUREUX, DEPUTY HOUSE LEADER, CANADIAN PARLIAMENT: What I can

tell you is that I was actually in our caucus. On every Wednesday members of parliament meet to have their caucus meetings. I was inside our caucus. The security actually just entered into our caucus room saying that we had to clear the building. I honestly thought it was just like a fire alarm situation. So I casually started walking out.

When I got outside of the room, what I heard was this rapid gunfire and it was super loud and at that point you could see a lot more people actively getting out of the building through the back door. And when I was going through, it sounded as if it was just around the corner and I find out that it was actually just above us is where the shooting actually had taken place.

So there's no doubt, there is -- there was real concern but at the end of the day, you know, no one was hurt from the parliamentary precinct from what I understand, I don't know that for a fact. That's what we hope and pray.

BANFIELD: I want to just break some news here, if I may, sir. If you could just hold on, I want to continue to ask you questions about what you've experienced and where you are currently. But a U.S. law enforcement official has told our Pamela Brown in Washington, D.C., that the FBI is requesting all field offices raise their alert postures and remind them of a recent bulletin asking military and law enforcement to stay vigilant in the wake of ISIS chatter, calling for attacks on military and law enforcement in the United States.

And here's the nexus to Canada. The FBI is apparently now assisting Canadian authorities. Our Pamela Brown has learned from a U.S. law enforcement official, the FBI assisting Canadian authorities and they are still trying to determine if there is any nexus to terrorism as that has not been ruled out.

And yet, I do want to continue to ask you, Mr. Lamoureux, and by the way, Kevin Lamoureux is the deputy house leader. He was inside that center block on Parliament Hill when the shots rang out.

Mr. Lamoureux, we had been getting conflicting reports that a Canadian official had told American officials that this was not connected to Islamic terrorism and yet we're getting that statement now -- or at least we're getting that source from the FBI saying that that is absolutely not ruled out at all. That connection.

Is there anything you know?

LAMOUREUX: No. For me, if I can just stick strictly to the facts of what I know and witnessed was the fact that I was in the caucus room. I was asked to leave the caucus room thinking it was a fire alarm but as soon as leaving the caucus room itself, that's when I heard the rapid gunfire.

Who was pulling what triggers, if it was the assailant, was it law enforcement officers, I couldn't tell you. All I know is it was very loud and it was very clear that it was gunshots and at that point people were anxious to exit the building. We went to the back. Upon being outside within five minutes I could see the prime minister's motorcade leaving and then five, 10 minutes after that we -- heavily armed law enforcement officers came to the back asking us to leave because they thought there was another shooter. Want to give the impression that there was a shooter somewhere potentially in the back. They wanted to get us off the hill.

BANFIELD: And they were telling you to leave the building out into the open, outside or leave the building to some other secure location?

LAMOUREUX: Yes. The initial request was just to leave the building, to get outside of the building.

BANFIELD: And then what?

LAMOUREUX: And then after being outside in the building for about 10 to 15 minutes, the law enforcement officer said that we had to get down off the hill because it's believed that there could be another shooter in the back of the building there. So they escorted us down the hill.

BANFIELD: And again, I want to welcome our CNN viewers from right here in the United States and around the world as we continue this breaking news coverage of not only a soldier who was shot at the Canadian War Memorial but an active shooting that progressed from that location to the nearby parliament buildings and inside the parliament center block that houses the Canadian House of Commons and the Canadian Senate.

Remarkable sounds and pictures coming from inside as shots described as dozens of shots rang out inside those hallowed halls. One of the witnesses telling CNN International just a short time ago that he was able to witness at least one person lying on his back, possibly shot in the back but also suggesting four of the shots appear to have hit him near the chest area. There were apparently people performing CPR on this person.

We are not clear at this time if that person was potentially a perpetrator or if this person was a victim of a perpetrator. But at least one witness telling CNN international live on the air that he was able to witness a person lying on his back, apparently shot -- what appeared to be shot in the back but, again, four of the shots near the chest area.

I can also tell you a senator named Percy Downe confirming on CNN Live that a Canadian forces member was shot at the memorial. We saw the pictures earlier of that member being loaded into an ambulance and yet we are not aware at this time whether that Canadian military officer is OK, whether that person survived a shooting but clearly being loaded into an ambulance as well.

I want to bring in our Paul Cruikshank, terrorism analyst.

Paul, we're getting a lot of mixed messages on this one, and as we watch these live pictures play our, forgive me if I'll have to break in but we're getting messages that this is absolutely unclear if this is terrorism-related. And then we're getting other messages that it isn't necessarily terrorism related. How can that be?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it's a very early stages. This is still a very fluid situation but you've got multiple gunmen in multiple locations. That's got all the hallmarks of a major terrorist attack which would have been preplanned. It's unclear what the motivation might have been, was that Islamic extremism connected to ISIS supporters in some form of way, or some completely different motivation, still very early stages, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in again Constable Soucy -- Marc Soucy, from the Ottawa Police.

Are you getting any updated information -- I think we just lost Constable Soucy. My apologies.

So what is also fascinating about this instance, and I don't know that it would play out the same way in the United States but, you know, it's anyone's guess at this point, that this shooting incident was able to progress from the War Memorial into the front doors through the security of unarmed guards on the nation's capital in Ottawa, into the hallways of what is effectively like the U.S. Congress and Senate all in one. It's the Canadian House of Commons and Senate.

They're all housed in that center block building on Parliament Hill. And then ultimately progressed even further as we've been told now that it is confirmed that there was a third shooting incident at the Rideau Center, a mall area. Or at least near the Rideau Center, even though the Rideau Center confirmed to CNN there wasn't a shooting in that center. But there was a third location that was confirmed to us by the Ottawa Police.

Are you surprised it was able to progress that rapidly and that far?

CRUICKSHANK: I think it tells you that whoever planned this put quite a lot of planning into this, to sort of progress this far, to get through security perhaps or surveillance beforehand, of targets. This, of course, comes in a week where we've already seen a fatal terrorist attack in Canada of somebody running into police officers at a location in Canada just on Monday and killing one of those officers. So Canada very much on edge. That appears to have been an ISIS supporter who carried out that attack.

BANFIELD: And again, we are not being told at this time but you can imagine that it is being heavily investigated that they are looking for any kind of connection between that attack and what's happening currently. Again, an active situation on Parliament Hill right now in Canada. An active situation involving potentially up to three shooters but many witnesses reporting seeing one shooter down, even reports coming in from officials in the United States, saying one shooter is dead.

There was an eyewitness who said the gunfire in that main center block, the parliament buildings, actually started the attack in the foyer. Ottawa journalist Josh Wingrove spoke to CNN earlier and described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH WINGROVE, WITNESS: The door that's used by MPs, by staff, by accredited journalists, it's not a public door. So -- but it's open. I mean, if you don't have a pass, they'll kindly ask you to leave. But if you want to barge in, I guess that's the way to do it. And so he came up to there. It appears that the gunfire broke out in the foyer, just to the entrance of that door, and moved down the hallway to the north towards the Library of Parliament.

Now I picked it up sort of running from the west wing of the building to when police are moving down that hall. Again it's called the Hall of Honor, as I understand it, and it's -- they opened -- there was a second round of gunfire just in front of the Library of Parliament and at that point I saw a body sort of slump down.

You know, obviously, I can't confirm but it certainly looked like -- it was unclear whether that was an officer or a shooter. The way the police were acting, it didn't seem like it was a police officer and then they briefly sort of checked on the body and then they have since been searching the parliamentary center block.

In Ottawa, there are three sort of main parliamentary building. This is the main one, right at the top of Parliament Hill, it's the iconic building with the Peace Tower in it and we are still locked down inside the building right now and it looks like they're still searching but things have calmed down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There you have it. This account of at least one person down. But that journalist, Josh Wingrove, unable to say whether he could recognize if it was a shooter or if it was an officer. So we're waiting to get confirmation on that.

But one of the remarkable pieces of information that you may have heard reported on CNN just a little bit earlier is how on earth could an active gunman post-shooting a Canadian forces member who was guarding the War Memorial be able to actually cross the distance, get up past the lawns of Parliament Hill and effectively enter through secured entrances that are guarded with Magnotometer and security official, and no one, no member of the public is able to get through there without an active security screening like you would go through an airport -- backpacks, all metals, all everything through the Magnotometer.

Members of Parliament treated differently and staffers treated differently but what was remarkable is that those guards who guard those doorways are unarmed. Let me repeat. The information coming to CNN, is that those active gunman or gunmen may have been able to access that area of egress because they are unarmed.

Also want to just repeat for you what we have been reporting. The Canadian embassy in Washington, D.C., doors locked. Staff there on lockdown. I spoke with a high level diplomatic official in the United States a short time ago who confirmed this, that the Canadian embassy in the United States, including the Canadian ambassador who would normally be at work there, whether he's there or not, Ambassador Gary Doer, remains to be seen. But anyone who was at the Canadian embassy in America's capital in Washington, D.C., officially under lockdown.

Paul Cruickshank, probably not a surprise. The moment that would happen, you would assume that all of the councilor (ph) kinds of buildings would go immediately into protective mode.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Absolutely. There's a lot of concern there could be more attacks in Canada. But also even copycat attacks in the United States. Unclear at this point whether it's Islamic extremism or some other form of motivation. And I think a lot of people will be looking at the Islamic extremism link because ISIS itself has called for attacks in Canada. You saw a fatal terrorist attack in Canada just earlier this week where somebody rammed their car and killed a Canadian soldier. So there's going to be a lot of people looking at that. Whether there's a possible tie to Islamic extremism. Possibly people inspired by ISIS trying to launch attacks.

Whoever has carried this out, I think this is a sophisticated, planned operation, multiple gunmen, multiple locations. This recalls a little bit the Mumbai terrorist attacks of 2008 when you had gunmen marauding through Mumbai killing, obviously, a lot of people. So a great concern that we could be seeing a similar thing played now out in Canadian - in Canada's capital.

BANFIELD: I just want to -- this is a live and breaking situation, Paul, and obviously a lot of information is coming in at the same time while you are speaking. I know that live on the telephone right now we have on with us the Ottawa bureau chief for "The Vancouver Observer."

Matthew Miller, can you hear me?

MATTHEW MILLER, OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF, "THE VANCOUVER OBSERVE" (via telephone): Yes. Good afternoon. I'm with you on the line.

BANFIELD: Matthew, can you give me your vantage point, your circumstance, and whether you were in the parliament buildings when this happened?

MILLER: Yes. Certainly. I was in the building and the press gallery offices are right above and adjacent to where the shooting took place. We were in very close proximity. We first heard a loud bang. Sounded a bit like a pallet dropping. Didn't think anything of it. But right away there was lots of shouting. And immediately following that, about three dozen rounds of handgun fire being shot, presumably at the suspects, who now remains dead within the building.

We were barricaded in our offices --

BANFIELD: Matthew, did you witness that? I'm sorry to interrupt, but did you witness a body at any point?

MILLER: At the moment I was in the hallway, but immediately ran for cover. I did not witness the body, but immediately we barricaded ourselves in our office for approximately 45 minutes. Very tense. Not sure what to do at the time, of course, but we eventually had a break. We broke through a window and were evacuated with the assistance of police on the outside of the building.

But what I can tell you is that initial shooter was one of three incidents. While that was happening, a second shooter was witnessed trying to attempt entry to an office below us. Police are confirming that a second shooting took place at a mall nearby, Rideau Center.

Just to give you some geographical awareness, this is all in very short proximity to each other. We're talking a matter of seven blocks. And the war memorial, where the first shooting took place, is where the incident first occurred, but all within a very close proximity. The center block building of parliament, as you're aware, is where both the Senate and the House of Commons meet. It is our central House of Parliament. Certainly the shooter was able to breach security through the front doors and it still remains to be a very tense situation as Ottawa's on lockdown.

BANFIELD: And, Matthew, as you're speaking - as you're speaking, we're watching live pictures right now of SWAT-like officers who are responding throughout this downtown area that's on lockdown. I can't tell you just how close it is, but it appears to be within a few hundred yards of the capital buildings. You can see a lot of people on the sidewalk, which is a bit remarkable give the frenetic nature of the police response that just ran by the camera position because we've been told that just about the entire downtown core is on lockdown. We're even told that schools in this area are on lockdown as well. But it almost appears to be business as usual for those who are just walking down the sidewalk, some with identifications, but it does not look like a police presence on the sidewalk there at all. But again, I can't say that that is in that area, it just looks awfully close.

MILLER: Well, certainly to address that, there are several concentric rings of barricades. I am, myself, currently within a lockdown perimeter, in a secure location, in very close proximity to parliament. There remains people on the streets within those concentric circles of containment. Police are actively looking for a shooter as it remains. Current --

Parliament Hill is currently a crime scene. The immediate area around the buildings, it is taking police, their job and diligence to ensure that both individuals are contained and that any suspect is found.

The bridges are currently shut down. And just to give you some geographical awareness, Ottawa is a very integrated capital. There's residences, there's schools, there's embassies, there's government buildings all within close proximity to each other. So there's a sophisticated overlay here and certainly it is a challenging overlay in order to find the remaining suspects. As police have confirmed, there have been multiple shootings and they are still actively looking for another shooter.

BANFIELD: And, yes, multiple locations. That was confirmed to us from the Ottawa police as well, that third location near the Rideau Center, a mall not far from capital hill. So location one, the war memorial. Location two, the capital itself, the parliamentary capital of Canada breached with a gunman opening fire. At least one gunman opening fire within the halls of the House and the Senate, effectively the House of Commons in Canada, like the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate, all located in one center building.

MILLER: That's correct.

BANFIELD: Matthew, let me ask you just quickly if I could, you said something that really rang out. You said that there was a shooter that seemed to be trying to gain access to an office below you. Have you been able to hear anything since that time? Shouting from police? Shouting from potential perpetrators? Room-to-room clearances, which is often the case at this time? Are you hearing any evidence of that or is everything silent?

MILLER: As you can imagine, the normal procedures and protocol are being followed at this time. The security personnel and our CMP (ph), as well as Ottawa police and others personnel that have been brought into this situation are doing their best job. As soon as I was evacuated, there still remained people in the building. I understand that they are currently ensuring that the parliament buildings themselves are secure, our prime minister is secure. But this whole situation is unprecedented. We've never seen anything like it in Ottawa before, let alone in Canada. This is a very concerning time.

BANFIELD: So you would be - without question, I'm with you there, Matthew. I'm a Canadian. I spent my life there. This is as shocking to me as I'm sure it is to most people watching, and certainly the people of Canada who are so unused to this kind of presence. Perhaps hallmarked by the idea that those who guard the entrance to the nation's capital, to the parliament building, are unarmed. There are magnetometers. There is security screening. But there are not guns, as was confirmed to us by one of the members of parliament.

MILLER: I would correct you on that. The security on Parliament Hill is sophisticated. It is a separate entity from the RCMP (ph). They have both members who are trained security personnel and there are also members who do have guns. The handgun shooting that I heard and witnessed at the time of the shooting would have been from those personnel. They are armed with that -

BANFIELD: Well, that's interesting. I'm interested to hear that because we've reported -

MILLER: They have concealed - they are licensed to carry and have concealed weapons.

BANFIELD: We've reported several times. So thank you for clearing that up.

MILLER: They - that is their job. Their job is to protect the government.

BANFIELD: Thank you for clearing that up because it was either a member of parliament who we've had on live within the last half hour or it was the Ottawa police themselves who said definitively that those security personnel at those magnetometers and at those doors are unarmed. So whether there's a discrepancy of those officers being unarmed but other officers within the capital building -

MILLER: There - I will clarify at this moment -

BANFIELD: Yes.

MILLER: That there is an armed presence on the hill and that they are positioned accordingly through parliament and that they were the ones that responded to the situation. And I can confirm, as someone who works in the building, that the armed presence is both visible and ready to respond.

BANFIELD: And I just want to let our viewers in the United States and around the world know that we have moved to taped pictures. We are not running live pictures at this time. Again, this is an active situation in which responding authorities, the RCMP, and Ottawa police and perhaps now even further entities who are responding are trying to track down either one or two additional shooters. Witnesses suggesting it is possible one of the shooters is dead. Many seeing that person shot, although unable to confirm whether it was a shooter or an officer or another victim perhaps, someone who was actually occupying the halls of Parliament Hill at the time. But there is also a report from Canadian authorities to United States' authorities coming to us by our Elise Labott, our global affairs correspondent, confirming that one shooter is dead.

And as we continue to watch the response, which as you can understand is as tense as it appears on your screen, we are going to take a very quick break, gather more information and we will be back with you after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

We're following the breaking news out of Ottawa, Canada. Right now, Parliament Hill is under lockdown, as are other major areas around the parliament area in Ottawa. Police say there were three shooting incidents in all earlier today. They are tracking suspects at this time.

A Canadian soldier was the first victim. He was shot by what's been described by one witness as a high-powered rifle. He was at the Canadian War Memorial, that's right near the Canadian parliament, when there was this.

Shocking developments. The gunshots. Dozens of gunshots ringing out in the halls of the Canadian parliament. A witness says they saw at least one body inside the building. And here's what we heard a short time ago from one of the Canadian member of parliament who was lockdown inside that building.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCKAY, MEMBER OF CANADIAN PARLIAMENT: Literally. I was just taking off my jacket to go into caucus. I hear this pop, pop, pop. Possibly 10 shots. Don't really know. Thought it was dynamite rather than -- or construction rather than anything else. Suddenly the security guards come rushing down the hallways, usher us all out to the back of the parliament building. We're standing around talking and one of the construction people says -- said to us, well, it's probably a better idea to stand behind one of the monuments so that if there's somebody inside shooting out, then we've got a bit better chance. And then we started talking to another woman and she was apparently inside the parliament, inside the library of parliament, saw the fellow wearing a hoodie, carrying a gun, and then the implications of this start to sink in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All of this comes just days after Canada raised its threat level from low to medium. Reports now say that change came last week due to what's being called increased chatter. But there were no specific threats, that according to law enforcement authorities.