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At This Hour

First Diagnosed Case of Ebola in NYC; Dallas Nurse Nina Pham Declared Ebola-Free; Authorites: Hatchet Attack Not Terrorism

Aired October 24, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no reason for New Yorkers to be alarmed.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: No reason to be alarmed, but some certainly are after word the first patient with ebola in New York road the subway and went bowling before being diagnosed.

We're waiting for a live update on that patient. We're going to be hearing from Mayor Bill de Blasio in just a little bit. We will bring you that news conference live.

We're expecting another news conference this hour from Maryland, an NIH briefing declaring that Nurse Nina Pham is now Ebola-free and is being discharged.

A lot of news this morning, hello, everyone. I'm John Berman. Michaela Pereira is off. And Ebola has arrived in America's biggest city.

Dr. Craig Spencer is now in isolation at a New York hospital, a unit specifically designed to deal with the virus, but what has some New Yorkers on edge is what Spencer did before he was rushed to the hospital.

He went bowling. He went for a run. He rode the city's sprawling and jam-packed subway system. We do know that Spencer had been taking his temperature twice a day since he returned to New York a week ago after bravely treating Ebola patients in Guinea.

Health officials say Spencer was not contagious. Ebola patients are not contagious until they develop a fever and nausea. Dr. Spencer did that yesterday. He reportedly did start feeling sluggish, though, a couple days ago.

Now, there are questions about why he didn't self-quarantine from the start. Why don't all health workers returning from Ebola hot zones self-quarantine? We will ask that question to experts.

Dr. Spencer's fiancee and two friends who had contact with him after his symptoms emerged, they are now under quarantine. City health workers have been canvassing his neighborhood. A SWAT team from the Centers for Disease Control is now on the ground here in New York City.

New York's governor says this is not the time to panic.

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GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: I understand the fear that comes from that word now, "Ebola," and it is scary. There's no doubt about that

But a little dose of reality also, right? This is not transmitted like the flu is transmitted or a common cold or common virus. It's not about sneezing, et cetera.

This is basically bodily fluids transfer when the person is symptomatic. The more ill the person is, the more contagious the person is. But the person has to be symptomatic.

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BERMAN: That's New York governor Andrew Cuomo.

Dr. Spencer is a physician with Doctors Without Borders. He is now the fourth person diagnosed with Ebola in the United States. He is at Bellevue Hospital right now, which is one of eight New York medical centers designated to treat Ebola patients.

We want to start with our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, outside that hospital this morning. Elizabeth, what's the latest on Dr. Spencer's condition?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what? We haven't heard anything since last night, John, when the mayor said he's in good shape. We have a press conference starting very soon where we will hopefully get more details.

We want to know how he's doing, and we want to know, is he going to be getting a blood transfusion from an Ebola survivor? A lot of experts say that's a really helpful treatment. And is he going to be getting an experimental medicine. We know ZMapp isn't available but there are other medicines patients can get. John?

BERMAN: There's been a remarkable rate of success in the United States since the death of Thomas Eric Duncan. The news that Nina Pham, the nurse who came down with Ebola, she is being released after being declared Ebola-free.

Elizabeth, let's talk about New York state here. New York state has been preparing for Ebola now for weeks. They had training sessions at the Javits Center here, they've been doing run-throughs in emergency rooms for some time. They seem determined not to make the same mistake that were made in Dallas.

COHEN: Right. In Dallas, they were just caught totally unaware. They hadn't had Ebola training. This gentleman just walked in off the street. They didn't know what to do.

That's very different from Bellevue. At Bellevue they've been training for this. They've been training for protective gear, training for all the little things, what do you do with the dirty sheets and towels, all of that. That is so important.

A few weeks ago Tom Frieden, the director of the CDC said, "Any hospital can handle an Ebola patient." He doesn't say that anymore. I think he recognized that some hospitals are better at it than others, and this hospital would be in the category of being better at it.

BERMAN: In this process the moment that he saw he had a fever to when he was take on the hospital who when he was admitted to where he was admitted in that hospital, that has been prepared for some time, a very different situation than the one in Texas.

What was not so prepared and what people are now asking questions about, Elizabeth, is what Dr. Spencer did in the previous few days. He was out in public. He was in the subway. He was bowling.

So what does the city, what are health officials saying about that?

COHEN: You know, I think CDC is beginning to think, do we need to have different rules for returning health care workers? Because right now anyone who returns from West Africa, whether you took care of a patient or whether you never even saw a sick person, all of us have the same rules.

And I say "us" because I came back from Liberia last month. And that is that you're supposed to take your temperature. You're supposed to sort of monitor your own health symptoms.

But I'm hearing talk now that maybe the rules should be different if you took care of an Ebola patient. Maybe they should be quarantined. That's one option but not the only option I want to make that clear.

There is a middle ground here. Maybe you tell these returning health- care workers, you know what? You don't have to stay at home, but we would prefer you don't get on public transportation. We would prefer you not go to public gatherings like bowling alleys.

You can take a walk through Central Park; you're not going to be touching anyone there. There's a middle ground between do whatever you want and be quarantined, and I'm hearing some talk that that may be where they're headed.

BERMAN: And a lot of the reasons for doing that, Elizabeth, is to calm public fears because the science hasn't changed.

The science still says until you're symptomatic, until you are releasing bodily fluids with Ebola, you are not contagious, and as far as we know, Dr. Spencer was not anywhere near that.

Elizabeth Cohen at Bellevue, thanks so much.

We're going to go back as soon as the news conference starts with Mayor de Blasio in a little bit.

Meanwhile, Dr. Spencer's apartment is sealed off and a crew will decontaminate it. Health department workers are giving flyers to neighbors with information on Ebola to ease concerns in the area.

Of course, as we've been saying, the concerns do go beyond that neighborhood. Dr. Spencer did ride a subway. He took an Uber taxi. He did go to a bowling alley. So does anyone in those places have reason to be worried? We will speak to medical professionals about that to really ease the fears about that.

Meanwhile, in the neighborhood, in Dr. Spencer's neighborhood, our Jean Casarez, right near the apartment building, Jean, what 's the situation there? When do you expect them to decontaminate that building?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I'm right across the street from that apartment, and we just had some activity right now.

We're expecting the cleanup crew to arrive at any moment, but what has just arrived is a New York police department long-haul truck, and they're actually putting barricades up, it looks like, around the entrance to that apartment. So that means that this cleanup crew isn't far behind.

Here's what we're learning the cleanup crew is going to do, and of course we expect them to have their hazmat suits on when they do arrive. They will be going inside the apartment, and according to the city councilmen who represents this district, the cleanup crew is going to be looking for bodily fluids of Dr. Spencer, any item that would have been in contact with his body such as sheets or pillowcases, toothbrushes, a bath towel.

They will clean and sanitize the apartment. It will be a meticulous effort, we are told. It will take a long time for it to do. But once they have finished it and hauled off the waste, it will be ready for Dr. Spencer to come back when he is rid of this Ebola.

Also, about 20 staff, they are expecting to do all of this, but right now, and you might be able to hear it or see it, the preparation is being done with these barricades to go around the entrance.

BERMAN: Yeah, Jean, we were looking at live pictures of putting up the barricades. Again, those barricades to keep people out so the cleaning crews can get in and do their jobs, not because there's any concern of the building or that surrounding area being contagious just yet.

And, again, this is a very different situation than we saw in Dallas where they struggled for days to hire a cleaning crew to get into that apartment. New York had these plans in place heading up to this.

Jean, you've been in that neighborhood now for some time. How are people reacting up there to the news that there is a man, Dr. Spencer, who has been diagnosed with Ebola?

CASAREZ (via telephone): I think they're concerned. I've spoken to people. You've seen residents come out of the building, and I think it's a very serious tone here. This is the first case of Ebola in New York City, so people are adjusting to it.

And I think that those that live in the apartment with the expression on their faces, they realize that it's serious.

Now, we also know that community volunteers are being trained right now to go around the community to help educate people. There's going to be fliers that are give on the community member this is afternoon to educate them on exactly how you can and cannot contract Ebola, because there is a lot of fear with this, and they want people to not be alarmed because as we know there are only three people at this point that have had that contact, which makes them be required to have that isolation.

BERMAN: And that knowledge is so important here. Education matters so much. Again, those are live pictures outside the apartment of Dr. Craig Spencer, the first New Yorker, the first person in New York City, who is now in isolation in Bellevue Hospital.

This is the area around his apartment. They're putting up barricades because cleanup crews are headed in there, we expect, very, very soon to decontaminate the area.

Jean Casarez, thanks so much. Appreciate you being with us.

Dr. Spencer is the ninth patient treated for Ebola in the United States, and this morning, as we reported, we have good news about the nurses who caught the virus while caring for Thomas Eric Duncan in Dallas.

CNN has just learned that Nina Pham is being discharged from the national institutes of health in Maryland. She's being declared Ebola- free. That's simply amazing. Samples collected from her dog Bentley, have also tested negative for the virus. In other words, no sign of Ebola in the dog.

Meantime, Amber Vinson's family says her spirits are high. She is regaining strength. Her mother says doctors at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta can no longer detect Ebola in her body, and she is due to be transferred out of isolation soon. That, of course, such wonderful news.

The news not always great from the beginning. Of course Thomas Eric Duncan died earlier this month from Ebola. Still, all the other U.S. patients are now back home or headed there soon.

A two-year-old girl has been diagnosed with Ebola in Mali. She went to that country with her grandmother from neighboring Guinea where the Ebola outbreak is believed to have started. Her father died after contracting the deadly virus.

Local authorities say they are monitoring 43 people who had contact with the girl. The World Health Organization is sending additional medical experts to Mali to help prevent the spread there of Ebola. While one patient is being treated for Ebola in New York, as we say,

another patient, Nina Pham, expected to be released. We have an update on both case this is hour, live news conferences.

Plus, more on Dr. Spencer, he didn't have Ebola symptoms until Thursday, but he was sluggish before then. So is "sluggish" dangerous? Could he have been contagious at that point? We'll speak with our experts.

Plus, the hatchet-wielding man, a Canadian shooter, just two recent lone-wolf attacks, this as ISIS calls for followers to take action against police, journalists, other officials. Could this be a sign that the terror group's supporters are listening?

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BERMAN: All right, we're waiting for a live news conference @THISHOUR. New York's Mayor, Bill de Blasio, will give us the latest on the first Ebola case here in New York City. We also have other breaking news, very good news, on the Ebola front that nurse Nina Pham, who has been -- being cared for at the National Institutes of Health in Maryland, she has been declared Ebola-free. She is being discharged from the hospital. There's a news conference coming up shortly on that, as well.

I want to bring in our guests. Sean Kaufman is President of the Behavioral-Based Improvement Solutions. He's on the phone with us from Atlanta. And in Lima, Peru, Dr. Daniel Bausch, he is the head of the Virology and Emerging Infections Department of the U.S. Naval Medical Research Unit.

And Sean, I want to start with you. We're going to talk about this New York case. We've been discussing what's going on here in New York City, this Doctor, Craig Spencer, now in isolation at Bellevue Hospital. There was word that he traveled all over the city in the days before he started exhibiting symptoms. He got a fever. When I heard that, it made me think of what you told us before about the ABCs of safe returns from the Ebola hot zone. You just got back from the Ebola hot zone in Liberia. Do you think it was inadvisable, to put it mildly, that Dr. Spencer was out and about the way he was so soon after returning from Africa?

SEAN KAUFMAN, BEHAVIORAL-BASED IMPROVEMENT SOLUTIONS: Absolutely not. I think that, you know, folks that are coming from the frontline are using science to guide their decisions and, you know, it's not a time to stop living, it's just a time to start living responsibly. And so I think what we've seen with this doctor, who has returned, again, from a huge humanitarian effort and, unfortunately, is suffering as a result of that, is that he did behave responsibly and he behaved responsibly in many different ways. He was asymptomatic, he was living his life, but he was assessing himself on a frequent basis, and he was, in essence, keeping himself away, especially away when he started becoming symptomatic.

BERMAN: Once he was symptomatic, he was alone. As soon as he was systematic, he contacted Doctors Without Borders. As soon as he was symptomatic, they contacted the CDC and other officials. So everything went the way it was supposed to. Dr. Bausch, even though, medically speaking, the science says he was not a threat because he was not symptomatic, do you think the CDC needs to get in the game and talk about procedures, to lay out some clarity in how health care workers returning from these Ebola hot zones how to behave?

DR. DANIEL BAUSCH, HEAD, VIROLOGY AND EMERGING INFECTIONS DEPARTMENT OF THE U.S. NAVAL MEDICAL RESEARCH UNIT: I think it's fairly clear what we need to do. The science does tell us, and this, so far, looks to be a situation where everything was done right. The risk to a person, even in the very early phases of disease where they have fever and a headache, is extremely low. I think there's very, very little risk to the population regardless of whether -- when he went bowling or was on the subway. So this was done correctly and I think monitoring closely people who come back after exposure or potential exposure in West Africa is the right thing to do. Just as this patient or this person did.

BERMAN: I just want to make sure our audience listens carefully to what was just said now by two experts who have been dealing with Ebola for weeks and months, if not years. They say the procedures were followed, everything that should have been done was done, and really, it seems to be that they're saying there is no threat to people here in New York City based on what went on over the last few days. Dr. Bausch, I want to ask you about another case, a remarkable piece of news we just got that this nurse, Nina Pham, is being declared Ebola-free. The National Institutes of Health will hold a news conference in just a few minutes saying that she is being discharged. It seems that after an awful start here in the United States with Thomas Eric Duncan dying, unfortunately, after being mishandled by this hospital in Dallas, there's been a remarkable streak of success here in the United States in treating Ebola.

BAUSCH: I think what we are seeing is that this is a treatable disease. That's not to underestimate its severity and lethality, obviously it's a very severe disease. But nevertheless, we're seeing that if we can get people into the right centers, give them modern medical care, give them intravenous fluids, that the outcome can be very positive in many people. And so that's what we're seeing with this nurse, that's what I think we can expect to see with other cases. I only wish we could give that, also, to patients in West Africa.

BERMAN: And Sean Kaufman, I'll give you the last word here, you did just get back from West Africa and there is news today of an Ebola case in Mali, yet another, a new West African nation that hadn't had Ebola before. What's your sense of where things stand there right now in the hot zone?

KAUFMAN: Well, again, I remain very concerned and the differences between what I see in West Africa and what I see in the U.S., I think the news that you've shared is that, you know, if and when Ebola makes it to the U.S., we've got to be vigilant and we've got to squash it and it seems that that's exactly what we're doing in this case. The new cases spreading outside of West Africa in Mali are very troubling and, again, my heart, my thoughts, and my prayers go out to any place or any country where they're going to start to see the effects and the danger of Ebola. This is -- it is a war, there is going to be casualties and, again, we've got to prepare for when it comes, not if, but when it does, remain vigilant and squash it. And that's how we're going to get ahead of this thing.

BERMAN: Sean Kaufman, Dr. Daniel Bausch, thank you so much both for being with us and thank you both for your work in this area.

Ahead for us @THISHOUR, we expect to hear from New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio. He is updating the public on Dr. Spencer's condition. We're also expecting to hear from the National Institutes of Health with the amazing news about the imminent release of nurse Nina Pham.

Plus, the man who attacked four New York City police officers with a hatchet. So was this violent outburst fuelled by ideology? And could we see copycat attacks? Stay with us.

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BERMAN: All right, in New York City this morning we have learned that authorities do not believe the man who wounded two New York City police officers with a hatchet, they do not believe he had ties to Islamic radicals. That is what we are being told. Now, he is not around to answer any questions because two other police officers shot and killed Zale Thompson before he could inflict any more damage.

Our Alexandra Field is here, been doing the reporting on this. What do we now know?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Okay well at this point, again, authorities are saying they have been investigating for last day, they don't see any links to any radical Islamic group, they don't believe that this attack was motivated by any extremist religious views. So that raises the question, what did motivate this attack, which we see this man wielding this hatchet, these were four rookie officers standing together, they had just posed for a photo.

So what could have motivated this? Well this is something that police are still looking into. There were concerns about some social media postings, that's why we got into this initial sort of discussion about whether this could be fueled by religious extremism. There's a picture on his Facebook page, a masked fighter with a spear and a sword and a rifle, a quote from the Koran, "judging those who have wandered astray," police say that they've also found a lot of writings in social media which seem to share a strong anti-white sentiment, so they're trying to understand a little bit more about this man, interviewing people who knew him, and again, looking at the social media trail.

BERMAN: So they're pulling the threads on that right now. In the meantime, how are police responding to this? Because whatever the motivation now, we have a lot going on in North America with attacks on soldiers, now an attack on a police officer, are they changing the way they operate?

FIELD: Right. You've got to look at the context for all of this. That's what's really important. And they are telling officers across New York City, and really this is something that law enforcement across North America should be on this heightened alert, to be aware of the possibility of these attacks, particularly lone wolf attacks. Again, this is not a case where they believe that this was someone who was motivated by religious extremism, but it certainly will continue to raise the question when we see what happened in Canada this week, when we hear the calls from ISIS to launch attacks on uniformed people in the West.

BERMAN: Be alert, be smart. Alexandra, thanks so much. Appreciate you being with us.

Ahead for us @THISHOUR, that hatchet attack, the pair of attacks in Canada, it has New York, it has Washington, and it has a lot of cities in North America concerned. We'll tell you what's going on and what the real threats are and if they can be stopped. Then, one in 13 million. According to one account, that is the chance of catching Ebola in the United States. You do have a much better chance of being struck by lightning. We will dispel some of the myths around this and what the legitimate fears are. So stay with us.

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