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Dallas Nurse Ebola-Free; Hazmat Crews Clean Apartment; Self- Quarantine for Workers; Washington State Shooting

Aired October 24, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be with all of you on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As one health worker in America now has tested positive for Ebola, another is declared free of this virus entirely here. And just moments ago, one of the Dallas nurses who was infected hugged the president and we have the photo to show it. Here they are. A nice little embrace in what appears to be the Oval Office here. Of course, Nina Pham, she was in that hospital in Maryland just a week after being transported from the hospital in Dallas. We are getting these new photos from the White House. We do know that she is Ebola-free and she spoke just a little while ago. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA PHAM, CLEARED OF EBOLA: I'd first and foremost like to thank God, my family and friends. Throughout this ordeal, I have put my trust in God and my medical team. I am on my way back to recovery even as I reflect on how many others have not been so fortunate.

Of course, I am so incredibly thankful for everyone involved in my care from the moment I came -- became ill and was admitted to Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, Dallas, up to today, my discharge from the Clinical Research Center of NIH. I would especially like to thank Dr. Kent Brantly for his selfless act of donating plasma to me.

As a nurse, I have a special appreciation for the care I've received from so many people. Not just doctors and nurses, but the entire support team. I believe in the power of prayer because I know so many people all over the world have been praying for me. I do not know how I can ever thank you, everyone, enough for their prayers and their expressions of concern, hope and love. I join you in prayer now for the recovery of others, including my colleague and friend Amber Vinson and Dr. Craig Spencer.

I hope that people understand that this illness and this whole experience has been very stressful and challenging for me and for my family. Although I no longer have Ebola, I know that it may be a while before I have my strength back. So with gratitude and respect for everyone's concern, I ask for my privacy and for my family's privacy to be respected as I return to Texas and try to get back to a normal life and reunite with my dog Bentley (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Eliciting some laughs there. That was Nina Pham. And this is Amber Vinson. She mentioned her colleague Amber Vinson. That was the second nurse there in Dallas. She is also Ebola-free, but she is still in that hospital at Emory in Atlanta, though I can tell you she is out of isolation. And she mentioned Dr. Craig Spencer. We'll take you back to that story. That's the big story, of course, here in New York City and what crews are doing to his apartment. Health department officials there retracing all of his steps since he's been back from Guinea. We'll take you through all of that.

But first, let me bring in senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, who's been covering Nina's treatment for weeks and weeks in Dallas.

I know you're here in New York, but can we just at least - you know, it's a pretty awesome picture, I think, seeing the president of the United States and Nina Pham hugging. And what we heard from the White House was, you know, no extra precaution was taken, medical, before he saw her.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, because she doesn't have Ebola anymore, so there's no need to take precaution.

BALDWIN: Right.

COHEN: I mean, when someone has Ebola, you need to, you know, really, you know, pedal to the medal, right? But when they don't have Ebola, they're just like, you know, anybody else. It's really amazing to see her looking so great. And, Brooke, you and I have talked about this before. This is testament to what can happen when it gets caught quickly. Nina caught her disease very quickly. The minute she saw that elevated temperature, she called the authorities. Ninety minutes later, she was in isolation. That's the way it's supposed to work.

BALDWIN: So now that we say she is Ebola-free, and we mentioned Amber Vinson, she's Ebola-free, although she's still in Atlanta at that hospital, what really does that mean? When will she feel back to quote/unquote "normal"? Will she be able to travel? Will she be able to return to that Dallas hospital and work?

COHEN: Right. You know, I think that the big question is, when will she feel, as she put it, sort of, you know, back to her full strength? And we don't know exactly. But I think it could be weeks or even months perhaps. You know, Kent Brantly, who recovered, you know, back in August, I think it was, or early September he got out of the hospital, he still talks about, you know, getting his strength back. But, yes, eventually she will be able to go back to work at the hospital. There's no safety reason why she can't. It's really just all about when she feels up to it.

BALDWIN: OK. Elizabeth Cohen, I'm going to let you go. Those sirens drowning you out just a little bit there in New York City. Appreciate it. We'll talk to you next hour about why you're in New York and about the patient here.

But let's focus on that actually right now because all of this developing here, Nina Pham's news, as New York City deals with its first Ebola diagnosis. Dr. Craig Spencer, a volunteer for Doctors Without Borders, testing positive after treating Ebola patients over in West Africa in Guinea. Somewhere feeling quote/unquote "sluggish" and reporting an actual fever yesterday, on Wednesday he was out and about in the country's most densely-populated city, hanging out at a Brooklyn bowling alley, going for a three-mile run. He was dining out. He was riding the city's crowded subway system. But we have just heard this afternoon from the mayor of New York City, from Bill de Blasio. He is urging New Yorkers to remain calm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY: The patient is now being held in isolation at Bellevue and poses no threat to others. We have the finest public health system, not only anywhere in this country, but anywhere in the world. It's a public health system that has been developed over decades. It is ready for extraordinary challenges and it's proving it as we speak. We are fully prepared to handle Ebola.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Despite the assurances that without symptoms the chance of a contagion is low, three contacts of Dr. Craig Spencer's are quarantined, including his fiance. And an Obama administration official says the U.S. is considering a mandatory quarantine for all health care workers returning from West Africa.

Now, outside contractors are right this very minute at Craig Spencer's Manhattan apartment working to sanitize it. Here are pictures we have for you. You know, they're taking anything that may have Spencer's bodily fluids on it. You name it. Looks like a suitcase here, but obviously they're thinking sheets and towels and toothbrushes.

With all of this happening, you have to wonder how are Spencer's neighbors dealing with all of this. So we have one, Ricardo Lawrence. He lives just across the hall from Dr. Spencer.

Ricardo, thank you so much for taking a minute with me.

RICARDO LAWRENCE, NYC EBOLA PATIENT'S NEIGHBOR: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: So, just a couple quick questions for you as I can only imagine the media presence all around you there. You shared a photo of Dr. Spencer's door just a couple feet across the hallway from you and I believe this was taken before the health department arrived? Here it is, just some Halloween decorations. Tell me, has the health department knocked on your door, spoken with you yet?

LAWRENCE: I'm sorry. Could you repeat that?

BALDWIN: I'm wondering if the health department has now knocked on your door and spoken with you yet?

LAWRENCE: Well, they're getting ready to go in and do the sanitizing. They haven't, as far as I know, gone in yet. They're just gathering their equipment outside in the hallway right now. BALDWIN: When did you first learn this was happening in the apartment

across the hall from you?

LAWRENCE: I'm having difficulty hearing you.

BALDWIN: We're having a tough time. We're having a tough -- let me just repeat that and if it doesn't work, we're just going to have to bail. But let me try again, sir.

When did you learn of the news that it was Dr. Craig Spencer who has Ebola who lives across the hallway from you?

No dice. OK. We're going to pull away. That's unfortunate because we were really looking forward to talking to him. But as he's been in contact with us through the day, we do know, and as he just mentioned the health department either arriving or on the scene certainly talking to people in the building including Ricardo.

Just ahead, should medical workers be quarantined after caring for Ebola patients? We'll talk about that.

Plus, I'll talk live with someone who says there is no way this doctor should have gone outside if he was feeling sluggish.

And any moment now, police in New York holding a news conference on this hatchet attack that injured multiple police officers. Was this attacker a so-called lone wolf? We now have more answers. Stay with me. You're watching CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN.

Let's talk about this doctor here in New York City, Dr. Craig Spencer's diagnosis of Ebola is renewing debate about the self- monitoring practices of health care workers who may have been exposed to the deadly virus. NBC's chief medical editor, Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who covered the epidemic in Liberia, was forced into mandatory quarantine after she violated a voluntary agreement to stay put once she returned to the states. Remember, she was spotted outside that New Jersey restaurant.

Then you have Dallas nurse Amber Vinson who was just reported, thank goodness, as Ebola-free, though she's still at Emory Hospital. She traveled out of state shortly after treating patient Thomas Eric Duncan. And even Spanish nurse Teresa Ramos went on vacation before she reported feeling ill.

Dr. Spencer's actions raise a lot of questions about medical ethics and responsibility. This is what we have from Doctors Without Borders. "Extremely strict procedures are in place for staff dispatched to Ebola-affected countries before, during, and after their assignments. Despite the strict protocols, risk cannot be completely eliminated."

So, joining me now to discuss, Dr. Alexander Garza, former assistant secretary for health affairs and former chief medical officer for the Department of Homeland Security.

Dr. Garza, welcome.

DR. ALEXANDER GARZA, FMR. ASST. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AFFAIRS: Good afternoon. How are you?

BALDWIN: I'm -- I'm OK. I'm hoping I'll be better once I talk to you and we can sort of fill in some of the blanks, you know.

GARZA: Sure.

BALDWIN: And it's assuring sort of reading some of this from Doctors Without Borders. I mean I know that they are some of the best of the best. Just talking to doctors, they take incredible precautions, especially when they're in Africa. But let me just quote one more thing from Doctors Without Borders.

GARZA: Sure.

BALDWIN: "As long as a returned staff member does not experience any symptoms, normal life can proceed. Family, friends, and neighbors can be assured that a returned staff person who does not present symptoms is not contagious and does not put them at risk." Self-quarantine is neither warranted nor recommended when a person is not displaying Ebola-like symptom, which, doc, brings me to the situation we have here in New York City with Dr. Spencer.

GARZA: Right.

BALDWIN: So given the fact that obviously things can happen, should that change? Should that be a mandatory quarantine for any of these doctors who are coming back over here?

GARZA: Well, I think it's really worth a discussion to have that, to discuss whether they should be quarantined or not. So we have to remember, Doctors Without Borders --

BALDWIN: You mean not just between the two of us on CNN?

GARZA: Yes, exactly.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GARZA: So clearly Doctors Without Borders has been doing this for decades and have a really good track record with protecting their health care workers. But with that being said, in the current Ebola outbreak, there's been over 400 health care workers that have contracted Ebola with half of them dying. And that's part of the big problem in West Africa is the health care workers are contracting the virus and they are dying and therefore it's really tough to get care to these people over there.

And so health care workers are at a very high risk for contracting the virus. And it makes sense. These patients are very sick. They have a lot of virus circulating around in their body. That just increases the probability that they're going to have some sort of exposure. Now, how does that translate now into a proactive quarantine issue?

BALDWIN: Right. Coming home, what do you do? Right.

GARZA: Right. Exactly. So, you know, that's really a tough one to call because, you know, until they become systematic, they're at no risk to anybody. So the question is, really, who's going to become systematic? And the second --

BALDWIN: But that's a catch-22, Dr. Garza, is it not -

GARZA: It absolutely is.

BALDWIN: Because I can be fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm walking the high line, I'm going to the bowling alley and then, wham, I'm not fine.

GARZA: Yes, and then, bam. And then -- but the majority of people are going to be doing fine. The majority of health care workers don't contract Ebola. And so I think we have to balance that somehow.

With that being said, I think the other part of it, though, is, it's very easy to talk quarantine strategy, but we really have to talk about logistically how would that happens. And so if we are going to say, well, we need to quarantine all of these health care people that come back from these countries, we really need to work through, how is that logistically going to work? Are they going to be holed up in their apartments? A public health person going and checking them dally? I mean, a 21-day incubation period, I've never spent 21 straight days in my house, but I can imagine that would be a really tough thing to do. And so I think it's just not as simple as saying, well, let's quarantine everybody. I think we have to have a very robust discussion, see exactly what the parameters are and then make a really educated decision about the way forward.

BALDWIN: I think you're exactly right. I don't think it's a practicality issue, but I hope that is a discussion that's happening beyond just the two of us here because it seems like it's obviously a pretty serious issue.

GARZA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you from your perspective of someone who has been in government. You know, we know this morning during a House Oversight Committee hearing -

GARZA: Right.

BALDWIN: The inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ROTH, DHS INSPECTOR GENERAL: DHS did not manage its inventory of drugs or equipment. As a result, DHS did not readily know how much protective equipment and drugs it had on hand or where it was being stored. Drugs and equipment have gone missing and conversely our audit has found drugs in the DHS inventory that the department thought had been destroyed. We visited multiple sites and found drugs that were not being stored in a temperature-controlled environment. Because DHS cannot be assured that they were properly stored, they are in the process of recalling a significant quantity of them because they may not be safe or effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that makes me nervous and I'm wondering if I should feel that way. I mean, bottom line, our health care workers, is Homeland Security ready for something like that?

GARZA: Right. And so I think it's a valuable question that needs to be asked. And so what I used to say when I was the chief medical officer there is, is part of our job isn't necessarily the public health issue, it's really the security issue. And taking care of our workers is paramount to maintaining national security. The majority of the DHS work force is operational. It's a 70 percent is in the field. It's manning Coast Guard cutters, it's manning the borders and the airports. And in order for us to have a very strong security posture --

BALDWIN: Doctor, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me, I need to interrupt you because we're getting some breaking news.

GARZA: Sure.

BALDWIN: Dr. Gaza, thank you so much. We have to pull away from that.

We're now hearing here at CNN of a possible school shooting just north of Seattle. We are gathering the facts here. These are pictures thanks to our affiliate KOMO. This is Marysville, Washington. Again, reports of a school shooting north of Seattle. Stay with me. We're getting the information. A quick break. Back with the breaking news after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, here we go, breaking news as we are looking at pictures of a high school. This is just outside of Seattle. This is north of Seattle. Marysville, Washington. And let me just read for you what we have as far as this reported school shooting.

This is an active situation according to investigators here. This is what we have from our affiliate KOMO, this is KOMO out of Seattle. As you can see, what looks to be students just sort of huddled outside. Police squadron unit there swarming this school right now. As I can tell you, this is Marysville Pilchuck High School. There have been reports of an active shooter who was opening fire inside of the school. I'm looking and I'm reading as I'm sort of looking with one eye at the pictures, just so we're seeing this at the same time. It looks to be at least one ambulance there.

According to this report, and here's the lay of the land of this school. According to this report at least two students were shot. Depending on what you're seeing and what you're reading, obviously, this is a fluid situation and happening as I speak. There could be more. We just cannot confirm that are for you.

So, again, according to Seattle TV affiliate KOMO, at least two students have been shot. They are being airlifted to Harborview Medical Center. This is in Seattle. There was no immediate word on their condition. So you know we're working on getting that information for you.

As far as the where. Affording to this affiliate, this shooting happened inside of the school cafeteria. So this individual -- don't know if it's a student, don't know if they're even affiliated with this school -- opened fire inside of the cafeteria. And here's the thing. And this is what we're trying to confirm, that this shooter is still believed to be at large.

At least 20 police cars, multiple ambulances. You see people walking away here. They are responding to the incident. The school is on lockdown. I've been trying to get through here on my Internet just to see within this Marysville School District if there's any information for parents, but presumably, sadly, having covered a number of these, what they're doing right now is they are trying to -- the priority of the students and the safety of the students and keeping these students away from and cordoned off from wherever this shooter may be, if this situation is still active.

And again, according to recent reports, and I am not getting ahead of myself, this is still an active situation. Looks like law enforcement presence there in that white SUV as this helicopter pilot with our affiliate out of Seattle is trying to see and it looks like police walking around this school. We're working to get some more information for you and working to talk to law enforcement to try to walk us through what exactly is going on.

A lot of times they're going to try to keep parents - and I can't imagine being a mother or father and hearing about this on the news, but they're going to tell parents eventually to go to a location to pick up the students when the students are safe. But for right now, they are cordoning off this entire area. They're trying to find the shooter and they're obviously going to try to take that shooter down, to stop the shooter.

Steve Cardian (ph) is on the phone with me. He is a former New York Police detective.

Steve, I mean, in situations like this, I know students are safety priority number one. Tell me what law enforcement is doing right now considering, according to reports, the shooter is active.

STEVE CARDIAN, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE (via telephone): Well, right now, they're having everyone lock in place. So they're going to be securing themselves in classrooms or wherever they might be. Law enforcement is going to send in an active shooter team. If he is active, they're going to go to him. If not, they're going to do a meticulous search. But the priority is to get to him, keep the students safe and getting any injured tended to and out of there.

BALDWIN: We're looking -- I don't know if you're in front of a TV, Steve, but we're looking at what looks to be perhaps students, some of whom appear to be in wheelchairs being wheeled across this lawn out of the school. So how would this work? If, for example, Steve, the reports are true that the shooting happened within the cafeteria, this looks like a pretty large school, multiple buildings when that helicopter would pull out and we could really get a better vantage. Would they try to get the students who are nowhere near the cafeteria out?

CARDIAN: Yes, if they can confirm that the shooter is not in their immediate vicinity, but they're not going to take any chances. So it's going to have to be a certain thing. They'd rather keep them safe looked down to prevent the shooter getting from them so that they can actively pursue the shooter if, in fact, he's still live.

BALDWIN: If he's still alive. I think it's a point worth making because if you are - and we don't know, again, if this is a child, if this is a student, or an adult, but if you are a police officer and you're confronting this shooter, what do you do?

CARDIAN: Well, we always presume certainly that he's alive and he active, he's lying in wait. But we also know in the back of our minds the possibly is that he could have left the scene, that he could have committed suicide. But those two factors, considering they're going into that school, handing the situation 100 percent as if he is still there and still potentially dangerous.

BALDWIN: You can see the very slow, very careful groupings of these students, of these classes as they are leaving the main buildings area. If you are just joining us, let me pull up my information here so I have this precise for you.

If you are just joining us, there are reports of an active shooting situation at Marysville Pilchuck High School. At least two students have been injured. This happening right around - it's 11:30 Marysville, Washington, time. Police, ambulances responding. We know those two students, and we don't know their exact conditions, but we know those two students have been airlifted. So serious enough to need to be airlifted to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. And, again, witnesses saying the shooting happened inside of the cafeteria.

I know I have Alexander Field to my right. She is working on getting information. I have Steve Cardian on the line. Guys, just get in my ear and tell -- we also have the phone, thank you, Tom Shamshack (ph), a former police chief, currently a private investigator.

So, Tom, let me just bring your voice into this whole conversation as we are all watching this together.

Tom, you with me?

OK, we don't have Tom.

Steve Cardian, I still have you.

CARDIAN: Yes. BALDWIN: I am getting handed information, so I am -- bear with me as I just read this cold. Local law enforcement, under the direction of the Marysville Police Department, will be holding SWAT training -- this was actually yesterday. This was yesterday. They held SWAT training. It happened that they held SWAT training yesterday in the area around the school district. So -- take a look at this as we're watching people running. Oh, just gives you chills seeing these students running one after another after another out of this school, Steve. Can you see what I'm seeing?

CARDIAN: No, Brooke, I'm on a land line.

BALDWIN: We're seeing these students run, so I think to your point earlier, they're trying to clear out the perimeter, the classes, away from the cafeteria, to keep these students safe.