Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Previously Infected Nurse Declared Ebola Free; Possible U.S. Travel Ban on Countries Suffering from Ebola Outbreak Discussed; Interview With Congressman Diana DeGette; Teen Gunman Opens Fire In High School Cafeteria in Washington State; Three Teenage Girls From Denver Stopped From Joining ISIS; ISIS Social Media Recruiting Techniques Examined; CNN Hero Helps Autistic Children Attend Sporting Events

Aired October 25, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 10:00 here on the East Coast, 7:00 on the West. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. And first thing this morning, the governors of New York and New Jersey say they are not going to take any chances tot possibility of Ebola spreading.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: So that means anyone who arrives at two major airports in those states and who's had direct contact in Ebola patients West Africa, they will face mandatory quarantine for 21 days.

BLACKWELL: Authorities say a health worker who was quarantined overnight at a New Jersey hospital after arriving from West Africa has tested negative for Ebola. But this is a preliminary test.

KOSIK: Now, we are covering this from all angles. Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is outside Bellevue in New York.

BLACKWELL: Erin McPike at the White House. Nick Valencia is live at the CDC in Atlanta. And we're starting with Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, the first patient diagnosed with Ebola, Dr. Craig Spencer, at least the first in New York City, he is right there at Bellevue. How is he doing?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We're told that he is in stable condition. That's he's on his cellphone, he's talking. Sounds like considering he's really doing pretty well.

BLACKWELL: How are officials retracing Dr. Spencer's movement? We know that there is -- of course this process happens every time someone is tested positive for Ebola. But how in this case are they making this work in, of all cities, New York?

COHEN: Right. So what they -- and New York is particularly tricky because people move around a lot to a lot of places. So what they try to do is they ascertain when he first started feeling sick, which sounds like October 21st and then he went into the hospital the 23rd. So that's two days of the tracing.

And you think about your own life, you go to a lot of different places. So in his case, as we all know, he went bowling. He went to a few restaurants. He went for a walk on the high line, which is this outdoor area here in New York City. He went to a variety of places. Now they are not concerned about people that he might have walked past or just sort of said hello to. That is not the concern. The concern is who might have shared bodily fluids with him. So that is why they are so focused on his fiance and on two close friends.

BLACKWELL: So New York and New Jersey are tightening Ebola restrictions, mandating that health care workers who have direct contact with someone who had Ebola in one of these three countries in western Africa, the hot zones, as they're known, must be quarantined for 21 days. Do we know the particulars of how that is going to happen, how you mandate that? Who is going to check up on them? What the consequences will be if they don't comply?

COHEN: You know what, Victor, we don't know the answer to those things. And when I've reached out to New York and New Jersey officials to ask these questions, I don't get any answers. It feels a bit like they put out the policy and didn't really think about how they were going to implement it.

You know, quite a few healthcare workers come from West Africa, land in Newark and JFK, of course huge airports. How are you going to get them the airport to wherever you're quarantining them? Presumably these people, they have families. So what are the family members supposed to do? The point of the quarantine is to be alone. Do you move family members out? Do you post police officers outside their doors to make sure they don't go anywhere?

And the biggest question is, you know, they are concerned about people who are healthy. Well, if you are healthy you can't spread the virus. So it is a lot of questions as to why they are doing this. And there is a downside to doing this. They think they are making things better, but in fact they are discouraging healthcare workers from going to West Africa to help out with the outbreak there. And if we don't have people helping out there that means it's going to get worse here, because of course more people with Ebola will come over into the United States.

BLACKWELL: Absolutely. So many questions. If you have child care, who is going to bring groceries? And who is whose going to pay me for the next 21 days when I have to be quarantined because the governors of New Jersey and New York say I have to be. We're going work to get some of those answers as well. Elizabeth Cohen in New York for us, thank you so much.

KOSIK: And the 26-year-old nurse infected with Ebola is cured and back home, but on the way home Nina Pham made a quick stop, where else but to the White House to give the president a hug and show the doesn't country that yes she is indeed free of the deadly virus. CNN's Erin McPike has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Obama hugging nurse Nina Pham to show Americans the Ebola scare is under control just minutes after her doctor did the same. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: She is cured of

Ebola. Let's get that clear. That's for sure.

NINA PHAM, NURSE DECLARED FREE OF EBOLA VIRUS: I'm on my way back to recovery even as I reflect on how many others have not been so fortunate.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think this also should be a pretty apt reminder that we do have the best medical infrastructure in the world.

MCPIKE: The White House, given the alarm over a new Ebola patient, a doctor in New York City, was quick to point out one of the CDC swat teams the president ordered was on the case.

EARNEST: I'm told that this swat team arrived in New York the same evening this individual was a confirmed Ebola patient.

MCPIKE: But on Capitol Hill a National Nurses Union leader called the overall response dangerously inconsistent and inadequate.

DEBORAH BURGER, NATIONAL NURSES UNION: No nation would ever contemplate sending soldiers into the battlefield without armor and weapons. Give us the tools we need. All we ask from President Obama and Congress is not one more infected nurse.

MCPIKE: And Republicans continue to question why the president named a political aid, Ron Klain, to lead the effort.

REP. TROY GOWDY, (R-SC) HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Cite me all of his medical infectious disease, communicable disease, health care delivery background.

DR. NICOLE LURIE, HHS ASSISTANT SECRETARY: One of the terrific things about the way the government works together is that experts come together all the time.

GOWDY: I'm going to take that answer as he has none.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSIK: And Erin McPike joins us now live from the White House. Erin, what really was the takeaway from yesterday's hearing on the government's response to Ebola? What sort of was the underlying message there?

MCPIKE: Alison, one of the big issues that came up was this idea of a quarantine. And the U.S. has committed some 3,000 soldiers to help treat and fight Ebola in the countries affected in West Africa. When those soldiers return, they are supposed to spend 10 days in quarantine. But lawmakers were asking some testifying if it should be 21 days instead. To that end there was a meeting here at the White House yesterday morning and they discussed this and are still evaluating whether or not it's a good idea. And also Ron Klain, who was not at that hearing yesterday, he will be meeting with New York and New Jersey officials in the coming weeks to discuss it, Alison. KOSIK: So many policies happening on the fly, at least it feels that

way. Erin McPike, thanks so much.

BLACKWELL: Now for the health officials, the race is on to find people who may have had contact with the New York doctor who tested positive for Ebola. They need to test and possibly quarantine them before this deadly virus can spread. Nick Valencia is live at the CDC in Atlanta. Nick, how is the progress on finding these people?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor. We know that it's a difficult process and it is very challenging for these so- called medical detectives. They start from scratch really, patient zero, conduct interviews to see who may have had direct contact with patient zero, in this case that's Craig Spencer. And they do one of two things after they evaluate that. They either isolate and quarantine those contacts, or they decide that this person is not necessarily a direct risk of the public and they monitor them over the course of that 21 day incubation period to make sure that they don't have any signs or symptoms of Ebola and see particularly if their fever spikes.

Now, we know in the case of Spencer that at least three people had direct contact with the 33-year-old New York doctor including his fiance and two friends. Health officials say that they are being monitored and quarantined right now, and so far they are doing well.

A quick update while we're here at the CDC, Victor. We know that Amber Vinson travelled to Emery University hospital to get a treatment for her Ebola infection. The latest update is that her blood tests have come back free of the virus, clear of the virus, but we have no indication on if or when she will be released from Emory hospital. Victor?

BLACKWELL: Excellent news there. Thank you so much Nick Valencia at the CDC.

KOSIK: And we are learning more about yesterday's deadly shooting in a high school cafeteria.

BLACKWELL: Our Dan Simon is in Everett, Washington. Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, guys. Another horrific shooting here in Washington state. We'll have the details coming up. What caused this shooter to go on this rampage? We'll explore those questions coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: A brave teacher apparently tried to stop a school shooter moments before he took his own life at the end of this deadly ramp rampage, the spree which we know was at Marysville-Pilchuck High School in Washington. But one girl dead, four others now in intensive care.

KOSIK: And we now have new information about the students who may have been targeted by Jaylen Fryberg, a popular freshman who classmates say recently was suspended for fighting. Dan Simon joins us now from Everett, Washington. Dan, I would imagine this is still a community in shock.

SIMON: No question, Alison. There is a deep sense of shock. Any time you have a horrific situation like in this there is always shock, but perhaps maybe even more so in this case for the reasons you talked about. This was a very popular student, certainly doesn't fit the profile in terms of what you think of when somebody carries out a rampage like this.

Meanwhile we are here at a hospital here in Everett, Washington, where two of the victims are being cared for. They are in extremely critical condition. Of course the focus is on them today and the police investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Hundreds gather at a Washington state church seeking comfort just hours after a nearby school shooting. It was around 10:30 a.m. pacific time. Students were gathered in a crowded cafeteria at Marysville-Pilchuck High School 40 miles north of Seattle when fellow students and eye witnesses say freshman Jaylen Fryberg opened fire with a handgun, apparently targeting a specific table.

JORDAN LUTON, WITNESS: The table he went up to, he came up from behind and had a gun in his hand and fired about six bullets into the backs of them. And they were his friends, so it wasn't just random.

SIMON: Students scattered. Many in the rest of the building say they thought a fire drill was underway and many ran outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's sitting behind me. I heard the shots. I fell over and I just got up. I saw everyone running and I ran.

SIMON: In the hallways teachers started herding others in classrooms and ordering a lockdown. At some point someone inside placed a 911 call, and by 10:40 police were storming the building.

Going room to room, placing tape over doors of those they have secured so they would know what had already been checked. And in the process they discovered the gunmen, by noon officially saying he was dead, apparently having shot himself. A female student was also killed in the attack, and four injured students are hospitalized. The grandfather of one of the survivors says the shooter and two of the wounded are related.

DON HATCH, SHOOTER'S GRANDFATHER: All three of them are cousins. All three of them are cousins and they live right close to each other.

SIMON: Fryberg was considered to be a very well-liked student and the freshman athlete was recently elected homecoming prince. But his social media accounts paint two very different picture. Fryberg's Facebook page shows his active engagement and pride with a Native American Tulalip tribe. He loved the outdoors, smiling here fishing on a boat, and in other pictures, hunting. But turn to Twitter, a second more troubling image appears. In recent

months the freshman tweeted multiple times a day. "It breaks me. It actually does. I know it seems like I'm sweating it off, but I'm not. And I never will be able to. I'm tired of this expletive. I'm so expletive done." And hours before the attack he sent this -- "It won't last. It will never last."

For students who lived through the attack, it's a day they will never forget.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the guns and I turn around and he's just like pulling it and shooting everywhere. And there's blood everywhere and some got on other girl's faces and stuff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: We're still trying to piece together the final moments of what happened, but we understand a teacher tried to intervene. According to some reports she raced up to the shooter and tried to put her hand on his arm, and at that point he turned the gun on himself. I think the ultimate question is to what degree that may have altered the outcome. Of course that isn't clear, but certainly a brave action if indeed that happened. Alison and Victor?

BLACKWELL: The scandal at the University of North Carolina, we're going to talk about that in a moment. But also the top story this morning, Ebola popping up in the United States, a new case. Has it finally come time for a travel ban? One congresswoman says no. We'll talk with her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: While New York and New Jersey are ramping up Ebola travel restrictions, under federal guidelines every airplane passenger who comes into the U.S. from countries dealing with Ebola will be actively monitored for 21 days.

KOSIK: So that is starting Monday, and all U.S. bound passengers from Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea may have to land at one of five airports in the U.S. that have enhanced screening procedures. And some lawmakers want a complete ban on flights from Ebola-stricken nations.

BLACKWELL: Colorado Representative Diana DeGette joins us live this morning from Denver. Congresswoman, it's good to have you, this morning.

REP. DIANA DEGETTE, (D) COLORADO: Good morning, great to be with you.

BLACKWELL: Good to have you. On October 16th at a hearing when Dr. Frieden, head of the CDC, was on Capitol Hill, you said, I want to put it up on the screen, "The best way to stop Ebola is to stop this virus in Africa." Is that not the single best argument for a travel ban, fight it there so Americans don't have to fight it here?

DEGETTE: Well, the first thing we have to worry about is making sure our country is safe and then also stopping it in Africa. A travel ban, because we have now international travel all around the world, if we don't stop it in West Africa, what will happen is people will travel out of West Africa all around the world, to Europe, to South America, to Asia. And Ebola will start to spread all around the world. Eventually it will make itself here.

So what we have to make sure is that we -- we stop it there. You know, for every one infection now, eight people are being infected. So if we don't take a strong international effort then it will spread and there won't be anything we can do to stop it.

Now, I will say this --

BLACKWELL: What you are saying here, and I hate to interrupt, but before we move to the second point, which I will let you finish. It sounds like you are making the argument for a travel ban. I know from listening to your statements during the hearing that you are against a travel ban. But when you say we have it fight it there before people from West Africa travel all over, that is what's happening. That's why it's in Spain, that's why it's in the U.S. That's why it's in other parts of Europe, right?

DEGETTE: What I'm saying is that people will travel all over. It is a porous border. It's an international economy. But my point is in the week since the hearing that we have the CDC has now clarified its guidelines. They are requiring everybody coming in from those three countries to go to one of five airports where they will be screened and monitored. And they will be monitored for 21 days after they get here. I think that is a good idea.

We need to realize Ebola is not transmitted by air like the flu or something else. And so if somebody doesn't have a temperature or any of the other symptoms then they are not contagious. They are not going to make other people sick. It's a very fine balance. And I really rely on the public health officials both the CDC and the international health officials to find that very fine balance so we can get health workers into those countries to stop the spread of Ebola but at the same time protect our own borders.

So the issue has evolved a little bit since the hearing. It is nuanced. It's hard to fine that balance because we want to have doctors like our brave Dr. Spencer who went over to treat these patients. But then on the other hand when he comes home we need to make sure that Americans are safe too. So it is a tough call, but we really need to make sure we stop Ebola in West Africa. That is going to be the most effective prevention for U.S. citizens.

KOSIK: Congresswoman, the Obama administration says it's considering a mandatory quarantine for healthcare workers coming back from West Africa. New York and New Jersey, they have already imposed that. But should this have been done much sooner, and should it have been flushed out more, because there are a lot of questions, you know, where do you quarantine these people? One of them has been found negative, but is she still going to quarantined until to 21 days. There are a lot of particulars that don't seem to have been worked out yet.

DEGETTE: Right. There are a lot of particulars that haven't been worked out in New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey about where you will house these people, what they will do. And so I rely on the public health officials.

I did tell the CDC, though, they need a bright line. And subsequently they said, OK, we're going to only let people come into these five airports. We're going to monitor them every day. But I think we need a clear test. And again, we need to realize that people who don't have any symptoms, a fever or other symptoms, they are not contagious. They are not going to infect other people. And so it's a fine balance between getting our people to go over and help treat these Ebola patients. And they are very courageous to go on the front lines like that. And then also making sure that we protect public health. So I don't think we should overreact, but I do think we are going to have a clear test so that people know what to expect.

BLACKWELL: Congresswoman, before we wrap up I want to get this in. You said also before the hearing that America is not a fortress and that the -- it would be unreasonable to have this travel ban from people coming from Sierra Leone and Liberia and Guinea. But you know three countries that do have travel bans, they have closed their borders -- Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea. If they are willing and subscribed to this idea of closing the borders and travel bans to protect their people, why shouldn't the U.S. do the same?

DEGETTE: Well, what I'm saying is people will leave these three countries. They will go other places. And they will make their way to the United States. We don't have any nonstop flights from these countries to the United States. Everybody who leaves them flies through someplace else. And so you are not going to be able -- we shouldn't delude ourselves to think we're going to be safe if we're having a travel ban. But what we will be doing is stopping aid workers from coming in and out and preventing the disease there. And so I think we need to have strong requirements on people traveling, but we need to be careful we don't stop aid workers from going in there.

BLACKWELL: All right, Congresswoman Diana DeGette, thank you for being part of the conversation this morning.

DEGETTE: Thank you.

KOSIK: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: Bottom of the hour now. Welcome back. I'm Alison Kosik.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell.

They were his friends, so it wasn't just random. That is how one witness described the shooting spree at the Washington state high school that left one girl dead and four others students, two boys, two girls, in intensive care. KOSIK: And now we're hearing the grandfather of the gunmen says that

the freshman at Marysville-Pilchuck High School said that two of the wounded students are the shooter's cousins. And police are saying in the end the gunmen killed himself.

BLACKWELL: And we're just getting details in here. We just received this update from investigators with the Snohomish County multiple agency response team. They have completed their on-scene investigation here at Marysville high school. They recovered the .40 caliber handgun, that Beretta we've been discussing. We also know that as part of the investigation they have interviewed more than 100 students, and detectives were able to confirm that a cafeteria worker attempted to stop that shooting. And some of the witnesses to yesterday's deadly rampage described the scene in the cafeteria as shear panic. It was a melee there.

And earlier I spoke with Alex Pietsch. She's a 15-year-old student who was inside the cafeteria where those shots were fired. Here is what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX PIETSH, WITNESS: So I was in the cafeteria. It was like any normal day. Nothing seemed out of order. But I heard four shots. And I looked behind me and I see a gun pointed at somebody. I don't know if it was -- the person was on the ground because it looked like they were shooting at their feet. But I look at it, and as soon as I saw the gun, though, I ran towards the wall. And I was hearing more shots, but not exactly sure because everything was happening so fast. But after that I just ran out of the exit. And I called my mom.

BLACKWELL: Those four shots you heard, were they back to back in quick succession? Or were they kind of spaced out over a period?

PIETSH: They were quick.

BLACKWELL: OK. And you say that you ran out. I imagine -- we see video of the students running out of the school now. Describe for me this escape for these hundreds of students. We know there were 2,000 at the school, but hundreds of students were in that area.

PIETSH: Well, not a lot of the kids got out. I only had about 20 kids with me that got out of same area. I know a lot of people stayed in the cafeteria, and I don't know why. But I don't know how other kids got out. I think there was a lot of kids outside too. So they just left because they heard the shots.

BLACKWELL: Alice, do you know the victims here?

PIETSH: I know some of them.

BLACKWELL: What can you tell us about them?

PIETSH: Well, they were very great people. They were so nice to me. All they wanted to tell me was, you know, how -- you know, it's really sad for me to talk about it. But they were just great people in general inside and out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: And of course we want to thank Alex again for speaking with us this morning.

KOSIK: The pain in her voice, it's so difficult to listen to. I feel so bad for them.

BLACKWELL: Yes, absolutely. Hopefully those four students recover.

KOSIK: Three teenage girls from Denver are now the latest Americans caught trying to join ISIS in Syria, so why and how is ISIS so successful at luring westerners?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: For a group of radical anti-western militants, ISIS has been surprisingly effective when it comes to luring westerners with social media. And while officials say there is no indication Thursday's hatchet attack in New York was tied to the radical Islamic group and investigators don't know who or what motivated the deadly terror attack in Ottawa on Wednesday, three teenage girls from Denver were without question seduced by ISIS. The girls apparently spoke an ISIS recruiter online and jumped on an overseas flight with hopes of joining ISIS in Syria.

German authorities intercepted the trio, but many others, they have made it to ISIS. Intelligence experts say about 1,000 westerners have already joined the terror group. More than 100 are Americans. So what's going on here? Joining me know for more, Bobby Ghosh, a CNN local affairs analyst and managing editor at "Quartz." What is this? What is it about ISIS and its uncanny ability to recruit westerners?

BOBBY GHOSH, MANAGING EDITOR, "QUARTZ": Well, the main thing is that nothing succeeds like success. This is a group is seen to be successful. They have taken territory. They are holding territory. They have got tanks. They have weapons, modern weapons. This is a very different kind of group from the other terrorist groups we've seen in the past. These are not people hiding in cages. So that makes them attractive to a certain kind of people, people who have most like other issues any way.

On top of that you have a very sophisticated social media and Internet campaign which builds on the experience of previous terror groups. So ISIS has gone farther that Al Qaeda in this regard and in every regard. Al Qaeda had a social media program, not that sophisticated. ISIS has taken that, refined, and it made it much more sophisticated.

KOSIK: But what is it that ISIS promises these Americans that they can't get here in America. What is it is that draws these Americans in?

GHOSH: Well, it's a very nihilistic view of the world. It's the idea that you can go and die for a cause and in the meantime you can live in a -- you can live like the prophet and his followers lived 1,400 years ago. At least that is the promise. It's not the reality but that's the promise.

And so some people who want that, who want some cause that is bigger than themselves and can't find it in their immediate vicinity find that attractive. And these are, let's be clear, these are not well- adjusted young people. They clearly have other issues, psychological issues. I'm sure once we begin to dig deeper into the histories of these three young women we'll find that they are probably missing something in their own society, in their own neighborhood that they are looking for online.

KOSIK: So what do you think? How can the ISIS propaganda machine be stopped at this point?

GHOSH: Well, one thing to keep in mind is that if you live by social media, you die by social media. So in fact a lot of these -- a lot of this tweeting and YouTubing and Facebooking that ISIS members are doing is actually leading to them being exposed and caught. In fact ISIS recently in the last couple days issued a notice to all of their members saying don't go on social media so much because you are giving away your location. And in fact it would appear that some of the attacks against ISIS, maybe even the attacks of the United States Air Force has been conducting, some of the information about where to attack comes from being able to look at their social media profile and look where they are tweeting from.

There have also been examples where ISIS fighters have boastfully put up pictures of themselves on Facebook and Instagram, and people have been able to use the picture, look at what's in the background, triangulate it a little bit, and identify exactly where they are. So it's a double-edged sward for is. They propagandize using social media, but they also give themselves away from time to time.

KOSIK: So is the U.S. and its allies doing enough to fight ISIS online?

GHOSH: Well, it's hard to do, because what the U.S. and its allies and even the Arab nations, what the message they have is, compared to what ISIS is offering, is not very exciting to these people who are attracted. It is a message of normality. Be normal. Live your normal life. That is to a certain kind of young person who is looking for something beyond normal that is not a very attractive message.

So the fight against social media ironically will have to probably take place in the real world -- parents, teachers, fellow friends and neighbors. They are going to have to play a big part in trying -- in keeping an eye out on people and seeing if they are the kind of people who are likely to be seduced by these ideas, to talk to them and embrace them and show them a different way. It's a long and difficult fight. Bad news or sort of bad messages tend to move faster on the Internet than good ones.

KOSIK: All right, knowing your kids and knowing what your neighbor is up to, that helps. Global affairs analyst Bobby Ghosh, thanks so much for your analysis.

GHOSH: Any time. BLACKWELL: And Alison, we're going to talk about that last point.

The U.S. has a strategy to beat ISIS recruiting online, but is it working or is just too little, too late? We'll talk about that in a moment. We're going to get answers from a former Bush administration official who dealt with public diplomacy.

But first, and of course this weekend's "Ones to Watch" series, we are exploring the art of portrait painting. An emerging British artist has been commissioned to paint a portrait of a woman with royal connections. It's a scene reminiscent of a certain well-known drama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He came on foot rather than carriage. But otherwise Richard Toos is a rival at this thing that stately home is a scene from Downtown Abbey. The celebrated artist arriving to paint contest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the great hall. Here we've got George III above the fireplace, and Stuart kings behind us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By Countess Grimston, the former lady Rosella, Viola, Alexander, once bridesmaid to Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson. Now she's happy to be called Rosie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the top floor we have some of the family portraits. And this will be the 21st generation to be painted here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rosie is continuing a family tradition spanning more than 500 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First thing, all I want to do is get some quick sketches so start with. It is nice to get a sense of how you move, how the face changes, different expressions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard starts, like all his predecessors, with the few preliminary sketches. The same scene will be repeated many times over the next few months, each sketch taking Richard a little closer to his sitter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: In the Obama administration's battle against ISIS it is mostly the military tactics we hear about -- the air strikes, the supply and weapons drops. But there is another part of the fight that the administration has been ramping, combatting the terror group online. We have got video produced by the State Department, and its aim is to fight ISIS recruiting efforts by highlighting its barbaric nature using the groups own propaganda footage. So the important question here is, is the strategy working, or is it really too little too late?

Joining me now, James Glassman, former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs in the Bush administration. Sir, it's good to have you with us.

JAMES GLASSMAN, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Is this working?

GLASSMAN: Well, I'm not sure if it's working. It has started a bit late. I can think of more effective means of combatting ISIS recruitment. There are a lot of disillusioned recruits, people who found ISIS was not only violent but practiced sexual depredations, really was not living up to the advertising. And to get some of these disillusioned recruits to talk about television or on YouTube just the way that I'm doing now about what really happened to them, that would be very effective.

BLACKWELL: So hearing from more of these former jihadists would be more effective?

GLASSMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there are lots and lots of them, and there is a big questions about whether they will let them back into their home questions. And one of the things we can do is say, yes, you can come back, but you need to go on television and tell everybody what really happened.

BLACKWELL: You talked the timing and said it started a little late. The Obama administration was, critics say, a little late to determine there was a group necessary to battle, the recruiting online specifically. How would we or the country be in a different position in their fight against ISIS if this started a year earlier?

GLASSMAN: Well, let me just try to paint a bigger picture. It seems to me what we're missing here, and maybe we're just beginning to get to it, is that we're engaged in an ideological war, a war of ideas, as we talked about when I was in the Bush administration. And I think that has been pretty much abandoned.

Prime Minister Cameron talked about it a month ago. He said it was actually the most important part of our battle. And I think that a commitment of the war of ideas is enormously important. Right now in the world there is a big vacuum that extremists radical violent Islamism is filling. And we have our own ideology. In fact most of the world has this ideology. It's about freedom, tolerance, justice, peace. And we need to be standing up for it and being very, very firm about it. And I really don't see that happening.

So we need to join this ideological war, just as we did during the battle with communism, just as we did during the battle with Nazism. It's the same thing. There is a connection among Boston and Ft. Hood and what we're seeing now with ISIS. And it is a warped ideology, but it is one that is quite attractive to a lot of people, and we need to push forcefully back against it.

BLACKWELL: During your time at the Bush years you were tasked with combatting Al Qaeda's presence online. How is fighting Al Qaeda online different than fighting ISIS online? GLASSMAN: I'm not so sure it is all that different. And I also want

to emphasize, Victor, that online, that the Internet is just a tool. It's a very effective tool, but it's only a tool. It's no different from pencil on paper, and it's much more important to get the strategy straight and the messaging straight.

And, for example, I think the message that should be conveyed, and I've said this many years, is that what's going on now is in the world is the battle for the soul of Islam. Islam is in conflict. Now, we're being drawn into that conflict. But we need to see it in those terms.

Yes, you can certainly use online tools. But I think online tools, as Bobby was just saying before me, can be somewhat dangerous to the jihadists. For one thing, it exposes their recruits to other opinions, where normally what you want to do with a recruit is to isolate him or her, bombard them with images, and then basically send them off as cannon-fodder. They generally don't last very long, but during that time they can be effective at killing people. We need to get to them before they are bombarded, before they are isolated. And I think that some of the methods that I've talked about I think can be effective.

BLACKWELL: Mr. Secretary, many of these jihadists see of course the west, the U.K., as the enemy. Is this a fight that the U.S. should lead online with getting these former jihadists to speak? Or should this be led by some of the Muslim democracies or the members of the coalition who want as desperately to defeat ISIS as the U.S. and U.K. do?

GLASSMAN: Well, I think that's a great question. The most effective voices are Muslims themselves. When we have Americans who are Christian or Jewish and talk about, well, you know, this is not exactly what Islam is all about, that is not very effective. So absolutely, people in the region or Muslims from America, but we need to take a leadership role in standing up for our own values. I think that is very important.

But yes, absolutely, the most effective messengers, and we found this during the Bush administration, are people who have been jihadists and then have changed their mind. And as I said earlier, there are lots of them. We need to hear more from them.

BLACKWELL: Former undersecretary James Glassman, thank you for being was this morning.

GLASSMAN: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New experiences with my son is a gamble. You are on edge all the time. When he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you're a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. It's challenging. I stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. I'm afraid.

DR. WENDY ROSS, CNN HERO: As a developmental pediatrician I do a lot of diagnosing of autism. When I heard that my families were afraid to go out, I felt like I needed to find a way to help them.

Everyday experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. The music, lights, and the noise, there are a lot of unexpected sensory things happening. I work with facilities to train all 3,000 people that work at the ballpark. Autism is a social disability, so it needs to be addressed in the facility. We prepare the families with a storybook of experiences that may happen at the park, and then we provide supportive game experiences, sort of like a safety net. If we started taking steps outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

It's about more than a game. It's about opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. The world is our oyster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSIK: And Dr. Wendy Ross is just one of our top 10 honorees, one of whom will become CNN Hero of the Year and receive $100,000 to further their work.

That will do it for us today. Thanks for watching.

BLACKWELL: But there is much more ahead in the next hour of the CNN Newsroom with Fredricka Whitfield.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, guys. Have a great day.