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N.J., New York Impose Ebola Quarantines; Two 14-Year-Old Girls in Critical Condition with Head Injuries; ISIS Loses Ground in Both Iraq and Syria; SWAT Exercises Prior to Marysville Shooting; Debate Over Containing Ebola Polarizing U.S.; Did U.S. Government Drop Ball on Ebola; Are School Shootings the New Normal?

Aired October 25, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN: Top of the hour, you are in the CNN Newsroom, I'm Ana Cabrera, thanks for being here. We begin this hour with the fight against Ebola in America and the decision by the governors of New York and New Jersey to quarantine health care workers flying into JFK and Newark from Ebola-affected countries if they've been in direct contact with Ebola patients. Any arriving passengers who have recently been in the West African nations hit hardest by Ebola could be hospitalized or quarantined for up to 21 days whether they're sick or not. Now, this comes as a New Jersey health care worker has just tested negative for Ebola. She was part of a group who faced a mandatory quarantine yesterday after arriving in Newark from West Africa.

Joining me now from New York City is Elizabeth Cohen. And first, Elizabeth, the reception of this mandatory quarantine hasn't all been positive even though we talked to a doctor in our last block who says he's going to go forward in his work in West Africa. But talk about the flip side.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the flip side I've been talking to workers, you know, to doctors and nurses who say, no, I'm not going to go because I can't afford to lose a month spent in Africa and then another three weeks when I get home. I can't be with my family. I can't work. They said that's just untenable. You know, we're also hearing now from New York City and from federal officials who say they were stunned by this quarantine. They say that they, you know, weren't prepared for it at all and that it was done without consulting any of their public health experts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): Two of the most populated states, New York and New Jersey, are stepping up their efforts against Ebola. Announcing a possible quarantine or hospitalization for any airline passenger coming in from a West African nation hit hard by the deadly virus. A mandatory quarantine would go into effect for travelers who had direct contact with an infected person.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: We will establish an interview and screening process to determine an individual's risk level by considering the geographic area of origin and the level of exposure to the virus.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There is no cause for alarm.

COHEN: This new development comes as New York City health officials continue to urge calm as they look for anyone who had contact with Dr. Craig Spencer, the city's first Ebola patient.

DR. MARY BASSETT, NEW YORK HEALTH COMMISSIONER: The patient continues to be stable at Bellevue Hospital where he remains hospitalized on the isolation unit.

COHEN: The 33-year-old doctor returned to the U.S. last week after treating Ebola patients in Guinea with Doctors Without Borders. Three people who had contact with Dr. Spencer have been quarantined including his fiancee who will be monitored for symptoms over the next 21 days. And as hazmat crews work to decontaminate his apartment, city officials are retracing Dr. Spencer's steps and alerting all who may have come in contact with him.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: We want to find every person with whom he may have been in contact and we want to account for all of his time from the time he developed symptoms.

COHEN: On Wednesday, just one day before his diagnosis with Ebola, he was out and about in New York, visiting a Brooklyn bowling alley. Going for a jog and riding the subway. The Metropolitan Transit Authority released a statement listing their procedures about isolating and disinfecting railcars to help calm New York commuters adding that it's safe to travel. This amid good news from the national institutes of health in Bethesda, Maryland, Dallas nurse Nina Pham is Ebola-free.

NINA PHAM, EBOLA SURVIVOR: This illness and this whole experience has been very stressful and challenging for me and for my family. Although I no longer have Ebola, I know that it may be a while before I have my strength back.

COHEN: The NIH director said no experimental drugs were given to Pham while under their care. Exactly when or why she turned the corner is hard to pinpoint, but that the blood transfusion from cured Ebola patient Dr. Kent Brantley could have been a factor.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIR., NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: Certainly that could be the case, but, remember, when you have so many separate factors at the same time going into the care of a patient and the end is won for this patient, it's virtually impossible to say that this is the thing that did it and this is the thing that didn't do it.

COHEN: Pham was invited to the White House where she received a hug from President Obama in the Oval Office. And Atlanta's Emory hospital reports that the other Dallas caregiver to contract Ebola Amber Vincent tests no longer detect the virus in her blood. She remains under close watch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: The concern is if U.S. doctors and nurses decide not to go to Africa to quell the epidemic there, that means more Ebola in Africa which means more Ebola here in the United States -- Ana.

CABRERA: Elizabeth Cohen in New York, thanks.

And now to the school shooting just north of Seattle. A football player opens fire in a high school cafeteria. His targets we've learned were not random. Jaylen Fryberg reportedly shot two of his own cousins. He also shot two 14-year-old girls both in the head. His motive still unknown. Just a week ago Fryberg was apparently voted homecoming prince of his freshman class and we're learning more about the victims still fighting for their lives. A doctor tells CNN in her words are touch and go for the two injured girls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOANNE ROBERTS, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, PROVIDENCE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: They're both very critical. We've seen tears. We've seen anger. They are just grieving. Right now I think they're just settled in. Things are quiet. They know the circumstances. They're hoping for the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We're all hoping for the best. Let's bring in our correspondent Susan Candiotti live in Everett, Washington. Susan, I know you had a chance to speak to an acquaintance of Jaylen Fryberg about some recent trouble that we now know Fryberg may have faced. Tell us more about what you learned.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana, yes. Police have not revealed whether they have discovered why this happened. However, we do know this, the shooter recently returned to school after serving a suspension after a fight at football practice. This is what students are telling us. That apparently at that practice some allegedly disparaging comments were made to him and he got involved in a fight and apparently gave another student, quote, "quite a pounding." Now, again, whether this had anything at all to with the shooting yesterday remains unclear. But it turns out according to another student this came up in a conversation he had with Jaylen Fryberg at the start of the school day yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN HECKENDORF, KNEW JAYLEN FRYBERG: It was a moment just to kind of -- just to follow-up on what was going on in his life, you know? You know, like I said, I wasn't -- I'm not -- haven't ever been that close to him but, you know, I've spoken with him and talked to him like I do to other people that I see around school and I just told him, like I said, to talk to me, come talk to me, if he ever needs anything and, you know, in his final words that he said to me about what would happen with the fight, you know, he said it was an act of anger. Or it was an act of aggression. And he should have used his words and those were the last words that he had really spoken to me and kind of -- it really hit me pretty hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CANDIOTTI: Now, back at Marysville-Pilchuck High School this day, the school was reopened. Some people leaving flowers behind on the fence. Reopened only to allow students and staff to go back in and collect their belongings that they left behind after the shooting yesterday. Students, this community, still in shock, but Ana, many of the students saying we will come back stronger than before. But right now it's awfully hard to think about that -- Ana.

CABRERA: Our hearts are heavy for that community. Susan Candiotti, thanks for joining me.

Still to come, is the new quarantine policy in New York and New Jersey too restrictive? We'll talk to a chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Representative Ed Royce.

Plus, new victories today in the fight against ISIS in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A doctor in New York City tests positive for Ebola and just like that public concerns over Ebola get new life this time in the New York media spotlight. Dr. Craig Spencer's diagnosis highlights everyone's fears about the disease but his case also highlights the reality, in fact, the only Americans when have contracted Ebola were a few health care workers who got it from treating people who have extreme Ebola infections. So, are we taking the right steps to keep it from spreading? And are we all at risk of overreacting? Well, let's put those questions to a member of Congress.

Representative Ed Royce is the California Republican, he is also the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee. Chairman Royce, thanks for joining me. I want to start with, you know, this new development and New York's mayor, he said no cause for alarm but now New York and New Jersey decided to quarantine anyone arriving at their airports. We're hearing today federal officials responding in a not positive way to say the very least to these new mandates. What's your reaction? Good idea? Going too far?

REP. ED ROYCE (R-CA), FOREIGN AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN: We had hearings on this subject and Sumerian Perse (ph) which is one of the organizations doing that work on the ground said that they thought the rules should be that when a health worker comes back to the United States, they should be self-quarantined and what they do is quarantine close to a facility like Emory, a facility which can handle this kind of a case should things go wrong. So, I think this is another example of the federal regulations being pretty lax. Those on the ground, the organizations, suggesting -- suggesting -- more effective regulations. And then the state government coming in to endorse those ideas and then maybe finally the federal government coming in behind the states. I think, yes, I think this is necessary.

CABRERA: So, we talk about people like Dr. Craig Spencer, you know, many of these health care workers have jobs at local health care facilities so when they come back from West Africa, now we're talking about a potential trickle-down effect that's impacting hospital resources, impacting the families of these health care workers, impacting whether they can continue to make a living and make money. What would the response to that be? I mean, have you thought that through in terms of how the resources are going to be there both for the individual as well as their health care facilities?

ROYCE: Yes. Remember, we're only talking about 21 days. That's the period of time in which someone might be carrying the virus and not be aware of it. But the other suggestion we are making on the committee, the initiative I'm trying to effect, is one in which we are not allowing visas for individuals from those three West African countries to come to the United States. Because in 2009 when we had the problem with the influenza, with the H-1 N-1 flu epidemic we did that with one of the consulates. And I think it's very appropriate until we get a handle on this and until we get a better testing, we should hold that in abeyance as well. Those two steps will help a great deal.

CABRERA: How confident are you in the U.S.' ability to keep Ebola from spreading in a significant way?

ROYCE: Well, remember, as long as we allow 100 visas a day or as long as we don't put in place the protocols to really have a check against those who are coming back from the region, then we've got a challenge here. The last element of this, of course, is what we can do on the ground in West Africa and as you can see, Britain has taken on the case of Sierra Leone. The United States is working with Liberia, France is beginning to work with Guinea, that is because the World Health Organization dropped the ball and the information we're getting back is that it's going to be necessary for us to step it up. One of the things we'd like to see is the World Health Organization to bring back many of their experts, their doctors from around the world, countries in various, you know, they are represented all over the globe, bring those who can actually train and help set up the quarantine systems and help treat, bring them back to West Africa to these three countries. So the United States is going to work in tandem with the World Health Organization to do this. But in the meantime clearly, the U.S., France and Britain are going to take the lead on the ground.

CABRERA: All right. Congressman, please stay with us because we want to talk to you about what happened in Ottawa this week as well and whether the greatest terrorism threat to the U.S. is abroad or in the homeland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A blow to ISIS on two fronts today in Northern Iraq, Kurdish Peshmerga forces say they have retaken the town of Zumar with the help of allied air strikes there. The town near the strategically crucial Mosul Dam was seized by ISIS fighters in August after they completely surrounded the Kurdish defenders, so that is good news. Now to the west, the Kurdish fighters appear to be holding the town of Kobani, that's in Syria and they will soon be joined by some 200 Peshmerga fighters who are coming from Iraq to join the fight.

Let's talk more about ISIS and the terrorism with Congressman Ed Royce of California. He is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee joining us once again. Chairman Royce, I want to get your thoughts on this week's terror

attacks in Canada. First I want to remind everybody about what happened. On Monday a radicalized convert to Islam used his car to run down and kill a uniformed Canadian soldier. And then on Wednesday the shocking images out of Ottawa the gunman who opened fire first at the National War Memorial killing a soldier before then heading into the parliament building where he was feet away from parliament members even the Prime Minister, he was eventually shot and killed. Chairman Royce, these attacks in Canada really put a spotlight this week on this so-called lone wolf attacker. There have been many warnings about these types of attacks. In fact, I want to listen to what the former head of the National Counterterrorism Center told CNN's Jim Sciutto this week before that attack in Ottawa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW OLSEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: I would say the most likely type of attack is one of these homegrown violent extremists or, you know, lone offenders in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, Chairman Royce, is the U.S. putting enough effort into preventing these types of attacks?

ROYCE: Well, we're attempting to prevent these attacks, but as you can imagine, this is much more difficult than trying to follow an organization like al Qaeda with a structure and the intelligence assets that we have to monitor in this case what we're actually responding to is a message that went out about a month ago by the ISIS organization asking for lone wolf attacks in the United States and in France and in other allied countries. And so as a consequence, you can see on the internet how they're able to inspire individuals to carry out these attacks. The reason parliament is a target, of course, is because it represents democracy itself. And I did talk on the phone with one of the parliamentarians who I know in Canada while the attack had just began. And he was on lockdown there. But he told me the shooter just came through the main corridor there of the parliament. And so we're going to have to get better in had the west at being prepared for lone wolf attacks. But it will be more difficult than being able to follow a structured organization like al Qaeda.

CABRERA: Tracking is definitely an issue and we also heard from that former head of the National Counterterrorism Center telling CNN that intelligence leaks made public by Edward Snowden have now caused the U.S. to perhaps lose track of terrorists oversea. So are you concerned that we have lost contact with people and groups that are plotting against the U.S.?

ROYCE: It is more difficult. And, you know, a few years ago in Canada, there was an attempted attack by 18 jihadists who had at that point in time put together a plan to use three tons of ammonium nitrate in order to hit the parliament. And as part of this convoluted scheme they were then going to take the prime minister of Canada into custody and behead him and, of course, publicize all of this. Now, because of the ability to track that jihadist organization, intelligence agencies were able to intervene and those 18 are now in jail. Likewise in Britain, we've been able to stop many attacks simply because of the capability of monitoring those who were involved in the plot. But obviously as you can see, things are going to become more and more a challenge as this evolves. So, that brings up another question. What can we do in the west? What can we do to actually begin to offset the propaganda war that ISIS engaged in on this virtual caliphate of the internet that they're using now?

CABRERA: And what can we do?

ROYCE: Well, that's one of the issues we're going to hold some hearings on in order to find out what is effective in debunking this allure or this magnet for young 18, 19-year-old, 20-year-old males in the west to either be converted into this cause or to be radicalized, to follow ISIS. I think this is going to -- this is going to require the type of thinking that we used during the cold war in order to sort of offset, you know, the competing ideology at that time but we're going to have to get good at it very quickly.

CABRERA: We hope you'll join us and circle back around on that point after you have those meetings. Thank you so much, Chairman Ed Royce, we do appreciate your time today.

ROYCE: Thank you.

CABRERA: We have new information on the school shooting near Seattle. S.W.A.T. exercises we now know were held just days before the deadly rampage. They may have helped police respond faster to this tragedy.

But, first, CNN heroes. Each week we are shining a spotlight on the top ten CNN heroes of 2014 as you have a chance to vote on the one that inspires you. This week meet Wendy Ross.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going to new experiences with my son is a gamble. You are on edge all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just breathe. When he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you are a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. It's challenging.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. I'm afraid.

WENDY ROSS, CNN HERO: As a developmental pediatrician, I do a lot of diagnosing of autism. When I heard that my families were afraid to go out, I felt like I needed to find a way to help them.

Every day experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. There's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you ready to go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ROSS: I work with the Phillies to train all 3,000 people that work at the ballpark. Autism is a social disability. So it needs to be addressed in the community.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: High five.

ROSS: We prepare the families with a storybook of experiences that may happen at the park. And then we provide supportive game experiences, sort of like a safety net.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes!

ROSS: If you start taking steps outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's having fun. One success means more success.

ROSS: It's about more than a game. It's about opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. The world is our oyster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Four teenagers are fighting to stay alive after a popular football player opened fire in his high school cafeteria. Gunman Jaylen Fryberg killed himself after yesterday's rampage in Marysville, Washington. And this is after, just a week ago, he was elected homecoming prince of his freshman class. That's what this video is showing you.

Marysville police now tell us they held SWAT exercises a day before the rampage at the school district center.

A short time ago, I spoke with the mayor of Marysville, and he said the SWAT exercises may have helped save lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON NEHRING, MAYOR, MARYSVILLE, WASHINGTON: The police over the past couple of years, several years, have held regular training with these types of incidents with all of our schools, and I have no doubt that it helped with the rapid response and the ability to evacuate and complete two full sweeps of the school and find additional kids still in lockdown and even a couple that had minor injuries. So that training paid off and I can't say enough about our EMS and our police personnel and the professionalism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The community is grieving, struggling to cope. The gunman's motive still very much unclear.

And now to the Ebola crisis. Let's start with some good news for a change. That nurse, who was quarantined after arriving in Newark yesterday from West Africa, we've learned has tested negative for the virus. But that's not the end of her story. Casey Hickok was extremely critical of her mandatory quarantine. And she wrote a piece about it in this morning's "Dallas Morning News." She said, quote, "I've been quarantined in New Jersey. This is not a situation I would wish on anyone. And I am scared for those who will follow me. I'm scared about how health care workers will be treated at airports when they declare that. They have been fighting Ebola in West Africa. I'm scared that, like me, they will arrive and see a frenzy of disorganization, fear and, most frightening, quarantine."

Joining me is Dr. Seema Yasmin, a staff writer at the "Dallas Morning News" and a former CDC detective. And also joining me is CNN medical analyst, Dr. Alexander van Tulleken.

Dr. Yasmin, you worked with Casey Hickok. What are your thoughts on the new mandatory quarantine we're seeing in both New Jersey and New York?

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, STAFF WRITER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS & FORMER CDC DETECTIVE: The concern here, Ana, is from public health experts, who are saying that these policies don't align with the science and politicians are responding to fear from some sections of the public but it's really causing more fear because people are now scared about health care workers returning. The science tells us that if you don't have symptoms, you are not capable of transmitting the virus to anybody else. And what public health experts also worried about because is that because they weren't notified about these policies, they're not prepared to provide quarantine appropriately to the many potentially hundreds of health care workers, U.S. military who will be returning to West Africa. And they really need to make sure if there is going to be quarantine, they have the time and the facilities to be able to do it properly. At the moment, we know that Casey is in an unheated tent outside of Newark University Hospital. She hasn't been allowed to shower. She doesn't have her personal belongings with her. And this is a very frightening situation for her and potentially many other health care workers.

CABRERA: Dr. van Tulleken, we spoke with Dr. Le last hour and he talked about getting ready to go over to Liberia, and his concerns about potentially returning and having to deal with some of these procedures. Is this unfairly punishing these health care workers who are really risking their lives to go save lives?

DR. ALEXANDER VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: The big issue is not punish them. Most health care workers are volunteering in these situations, are able to endure hardship in the field and, if necessary, when they return home. The objection is it's not only not necessary, it doesn't prevent transmission of Ebola here in the states. But also that it costs us a huge of amount of money in terms of enforcement and screening, and it doesn't affect our risk at all. It actually makes it harder to work in West Africa.

We've heard from the governors that how much better the response has been in New York City, and yet this seems to have been incredibly poorly thought out. They've either got to say, why didn't they change the guidelines months ago, or they've got to admit it's bad policy.

CABRERA: Dr. Yasmin, I know you've been in contact with that nurse. It seems there was a false positive and a fever diagnosis with her. There was some confusion. What more can you tell us about that? And now that we have these new procedures, are we going to see more false alarms?

YASMIN: So, when he first landed at Newark Airport around noon yesterday, she was put into a room and wasn't given any information. At that time, her temperature was taken with a forehead scanner and her temperature came back as normal. She did not have a fever. She was kept in that room for more than four hours, though, Ana, and she was given a granola bar, even though she was very hungry and tired and confused and stressed out. She became more and more upset and she said that her cheeks were flush. She became angry and then her temperature was taken again with a forehead scanner and, at that time, it did register a temperature of 101 degrees. But being a nurse, she said to the officials in the airport, "I don't actually have a fever. You are using a forehead scanner. My face is flushed." When she was transported to the hospital, the E.R. physicians there were very confused because they took her temperature with a much more accurate thermometer. They took it about three or four times and it came back at around 98 degrees, and they said, "What's going on here. We were told you had a fever. You don't actually have a fever. Your face is just flushed and that's why the temperature came back as elevated but it's not accurate." And now that she's actually had a negative test of Ebola, she just wants to go home. She wants to be with her family and to self-quarantine at home, but she's being given no information about what's going to happen next.

CABRERA: No information about it. So she doesn't know if she has to stay quarantined or --

(CROSSTALK)

YASMIN: They're saying that she'll have to have another test, even though she doesn't have any symptoms and doesn't have any fever. But she's having information withheld from her, which is making her much more frightened.

CABRERA: Really quickly, Dr. Van Tulleken, I want to pivot a little bit. We know Nurse Nina Pham is out of the hospital. She's reunited with her family. We know Nurse Amber Vinson is showing positive results and no Ebola in her blood anymore. When somebody recovers from Ebola, are they still at risk of transmitting the virus down the road or contracting it again?

VAN TULLEKEN: So, no. For those two nurses -- I mean, we saw the president hugging Nina Pham, and the president isn't doing to hug anyone that would likely give a serious disease. No, there's no risk of them transmitting it through normal contract. For those two nurses, none at all.

There's some concern about sexual contact for a few weeks afterwards and patients will be advised about that appropriately. But in general, for general interactions, going to the store and things like that, absolutely no concern. I would have no concern hugging or spending a great deal of time with someone who was declared free of Ebola.

CABRERA: Good news all around on that front, then.

Dr. Van Tulleken, Dr. Yasmin, thanks for joining us and providing that information and insight. We appreciate it.

Still to come, from travel bans to mandatory quarantines, the debate over how to contain Ebola is polarizing the U.S. Our political panel will join us to talk more about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Ebola is the issue on a lot of people's minds, especially here in New York, even as we see Nurse Nina Pham receive the all-clear and leave the hospital and make a stop by the Oval Office to get a hug by the president.

Let's talk about the latest chapter in America's Ebola showdown with our political commentators, Ben Ferguson, joining us from Dallas -- Nina Pham's hometown -- and Marc Lamont Hill is in Philadelphia.

Ben, it seems like the intense public focus on Ebola had died down a little bit until this latest news that Dr. Craig Spencer just tested positive in New York. Is it a case of the government drops the ball or is it something we should have expected?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think we probably should have expected another case. Based on what I saw in Dallas, we did not have a good handle on this I think early on. We're still learning how to deal with this, to be honest with you. And I think it's going to bring up the issue of are there travel restrictions, even quarantine, for people that are coming back from treating those with Ebola that should be put in place. We've seen this debate with New York and New Jersey now, kind of at odds with the federal government. So I think this is, you know, chapter number two. It looks at least as of now we're starting to know how to fight it early on and treat it and maybe even quarantine those around it, so that's a step in the right direction. But overall, I don't think most Americans feel that comfortable with this yet.

CABRERA: Marc, is that a result of fearmongering?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, there's so much fearmongering, both in the media and among everyday people. There are lies being distributed, there are myths being spread, and there's reasonable panic. The odds of getting Ebola are slim. You have better chance of getting malaria, a better chance of a plane crash, of getting bit by a shark, better chance of Ben's Dallas Cowboys winning a Super Bowl.

(LAUGHTER)

The odds are very small that you're going to get this thing. And yet, people are still afraid of it. And I feel the same fear even though I know all the facts. So I think part of it is the normal human experience. But what we have to do, as a government, and as a media infrastructure, is reinforce the idea that the proper protocols when put in place will prevent almost everybody in America from getting Ebola and we'll be just fine.

CABRERA: What about the mandatory quarantine idea? We have heard time and again that a travel ban won't work. So, maybe this is a slightly different step?

LAMONT HILL: It won't.

CABRERA: What about the quarantine, Ben?

FERGUSON: I think it's a step in the right direction. It's a smart, measured response. There is a certain point where I think states, ultimately, and cities are the ones that truly are the ground zero on this. That's one of the things we saw here in Dallas, is you really can't depend on the CDC to come in and fix it. It's going to be on you. And so I think what you saw with New Jersey and New York is they're saying, look, we're not going to have the same issues that we've already seen happen in a place like Dallas. The federal government is really not doing the best job with this. So, we are going to take it upon ourselves to put our own protections in place.

And I can't blame them, based on just the commerce. I mean, one of the things that's interesting was look how much money was lost in Dallas. Conferences canceling. People canceling trips. And then people not going to the hospital system because they're afraid of Ebola. That's the same thing you'll see in New York. And unfortunately, you have to protect local commerce and your local economy before you protect, you know, Africa's economy, as some have said that we should do.

CABRERA: Marc, I want you to respond.

LAMONT HILL: Well, I --

CABRERA: Are there gaps or holes in the policies and protocols that are currently there?

LAMONT HILL: The issue so far for the most part hasn't been the policy, but it's the implementation. You can critique that and our preparedness to implement the policy. I think there's all sorts of space to critique here. But I don't think we should jump to conclusions or jump to a set of protocols and practices that don't do the job.

Ben was very accurate when he said, look, if we're trying to protect business and make people feel better, sure. It's like when you put a Band-Aid over your kid's imaginary boo-boo, it makes them feel better. But the truth is a travel ban is not going to make us any safer. It's actually going to make things worse. And quarantining is only going to discourage health workers from wanting to go back there. You are punishing the very people who are helping to fix the problem. It doesn't work and it doesn't make epidemiological sense, it doesn't make medical sense, it doesn't make scientific sense. It may make for good public relations for a day or two but, ultimately, we have to get at the root of the problem.

And to counter Ben's point, it's not about choosing Africa over America. It's not either/or, it's both/and. We have to address the issues, especially in Africa and the United States.

FERGUSON: I am not saying we shouldn't -- look, I'm not saying that we should have people to go and help, but I think we also need to be smart when they come back. Part of this is, when people look at the government's response, and a great example -- and this is just generic government problems here -- you have the Ebola czar who couldn't go to two major weekend meetings because the paperwork wasn't finished. I mean, that's the issue that I think the public has, is you've got the guy who is supposed to be in charge of the Ebola response, because of paperwork, can't do his job, which is why I think you're seeing cities and states stepping in, putting their own rules in place that go beyond the government, because there is a trust issue with the CDC and with the federal government.

CABRERA: All right. We got to leave it there, gentlemen.

LAMONT HILL: They don't work, Ben.

(LAUGHTER)

They don't work.

CABRERA: Please sty with me, though. We'll come back and talk to you again, but we'll talk about the tragic school shooting in Washington state, which is the most recent attack on a long list of school shootings, many of which we have already forgotten in some ways. Are school shootings something we've learned to live with in America?

Plus, here's what's ahead on "Smerconish."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: Should the doctor who contracted Ebola and is now in New York City have self-quarantined? I'll chat with Art Kaplan, the nation's foremost bioethicist. Valerie Plame is here to talk about ISIS. Marc O'Mara, to talk about the latest developments from Ferguson. And the midterm elections are a week and a half away. Who better than David Gergen to discuss that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CABRERA: We have some new details on the victims of that school shooting north of Seattle. Gunman Jaylen Fryberg shot two of his cousins and two other teenage girls. This is one week after he was crowned homecoming prince of his freshman class. CNN has just learned the 14-year-old cousin is in serious condition but improving. The 15- year-old cousin remains in critical condition. We now know the next update from that hospital where the two cousins are being treated is coming tomorrow. And we have mentioned previously, but a reminder, that at that other hospital the two female girls are still fighting to stay alive. Both the girls are shot in the head.

The Washington State school, this shooting, joins a troubling list of similar incidents. By one count, there have been at least 87 school shootings since the tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, back in December of 2012, Sandy Hook. And like those previous cases, Friday's incident leaves behind a lot of unanswered questions and a haunting sense that school shootings are becoming the new normal.

CNN commentators, Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill, are joining us again.

I want to read a quote from a CNN.com column by Eric Lou, an author and former speech writer for Bill Clinton. He writes this: "It is not normal, in a civilized nation, to have over 30,000 gun deaths a year. It is not normal, in a civilized nation, to expect educators and parents and first responders to have plans at the ready for a shooting at their school."

Ben, have we gotten to the point where school shootings are just something Americans have to accept as normal somehow?

FERGUSON: No. I don't think so. I think we have far too many of them. I think this brings up one of the big issues we do have in this country and I think that's parents not knowing exactly what's going on in their kids' lives. I think we have a problem with too many people that do own guns, not locking them up and storing them properly at their homes. And I think when you see the issues that we're having, as we have seen the breakdown the home with families, single parents, unfortunately, having to go to work and try to raise kids, there are a lot of kids that are in a bad place, and no one around them, their closest people really know where they are. And I think that's one of the big things we should learn from this.

CABRERA: Do you agree, Marc?

LAMONT HILL: Yeah, I mean, I think there are a series of issues we have to get at here. And one of them is obviously parenting and families. But I think there's a bigger issue here around guns, access to guns, gun control, reasonable gun restrictions. There is also a conversation we have to have about resources in school for mental health. There is also a conversation we have to have about proper teacher training. The fact that a kid could be in school and potentially showing signs of grief, signs of despair, frustration, mental illness --

FERGUSON: Absolutely. LAMONT HILL: -- and it goes unnoticed is deeply troubling to me. So

I want to make sure schools are positioned well, but that's a funding and structural issue. So often we take out the counselors and psychologists in deference to these broader No Child Left Behind test issues in school. There it is an array of issues. We can't blame it on a gun, purely, or blame it on the parent, purely.

CABRERA: It's not so simple.

You mentioned this signs. We know this suspect left behind some tweets that, in hindsight, seem troubling but don't directly point to violence. But let me read a couple to you. This is from Tuesday. He wrote, "It breaks me, it actually does. I know it seems like I'm sweating it off but I'm not and I never will be able to." And his final tweet on Thursday he says, "It won't last. It will never last."

So it's easy to say someone missed signals in hindsight.

FERGUSON: Sure.

CABRERA: But, of course, the flip side is overreaction on the part of adults who see danger in every social media posting.

Ben, what's the right balance?

FERGUSON: Well, I think parents know their -- should know their kids better than anybody else. And I think they're the ones that should be monitoring this.

If there is one thing we can learn from this, and we consistently see a trail on social media, usually when kids commit these types of crimes. And I'm sitting there going, why aren't the parents monitoring and watching what their kids are posting? They're the child, you're the adult, you should have total access into that world. And if not, you should shut it down. But again, I think that's where one of the core breakdowns is. And these kids in these tweets, it's almost like they're crying for help, but no one seems to be noticing or listening to them. And then we're shocked when they act out in such a tragic way for not only the family, but especially for the victims. And that's something we've got to fix.

CABRERA: And yet, Marc, we know that age is --

(CROSSTALK)

LAMONT HILL: It's hard though.

CABRERA: -- a difficult age. People go through a lot of emotions. Hormones are changing. People got through a lot of emotions.

LAMONT HILL: It is a --

CABRERA: Hormones are changing.

LAMONT HILL: Yeah.

CABRERA: You've got the cliques at school.

LAMONT HILL: Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I agree with Ben, parents should be on top of their children's social network. They should know what their kids are doing. But you also have to establish a level of privacy and growth in your child. You don't want the child to feel like every move is being surveiled because then kids hide stuff and make things difficult to find. They won't post on social media but make a fake account. I'm not saying don't be a good parent, but also I understand the challenges of that. As a former high school teacher and parent, I can tell you, it's hard.

CABRERA: All right. Thank you to you both. We've got Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson. We appreciate it.

LAMONT HILL: Thanks.

CABRERA: Tonight on CNN, Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen and her Republican opponent, Scott Brown, face off in the New Hampshire debate moderated by CNN. That's at 7:00 eastern. At 8:00 eastern, don't miss Mike Rowe's "Somebody's Got to Do It."

For now, I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for spending part of your weekend with me.

"Smerconish" starts after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)