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Obama Pushes New York, New Jersey to Reverse Quarantine Policies; NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio Updates on Ebola Status; Nurse Back from West Africa in Forced Quarantine; UK Troops Ended Combat Operations in Afghanistan; Nightmare in Seattle School
Aired October 26, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: -- New York City. As you know, new quarantine requirements for health care workers treating Ebola patients are touching a nerve this weekend and the course of those disagreeing with this new policy is growing.
According to "The New York Times," the Obama administration has been pushing governors of New York and New Jersey to reverse their decisions. CNN has reached out to the White House, so far no response. But we will get a live report on that element in just a moment.
Also perhaps, while you were sleeping overnight, UK troops ended combat operations in Afghanistan and U.S. Marines also handed over to two key bases to the Afghan army. But with ISIS now filling the vacuum left behind after the troop (INAUDIBLE) in Iraq, what lesson can be learned this time around? We will discuss.
And in suburban Seattle, a first year high school teacher facing a nightmare, facing a student with a gun rushing towards him. We will have a live report on her heroic actions that may very well have saved lives.
First to the new rules for health care workers returning from West Africa hitting science against public policy as the federal government considered its own requirement. We now know New York, New Jersey, and Illinois have already implemented mandatory Ebola quarantine policies for health care workers who arrive at their airport. Two other states will, Connecticut and Florida, are now going to require health monitoring. But not everyone thinks the quarantines are the right plan of action.
NIH director Dr. Anthony Fauci says he is concerned that health care workers who are essential to curbing the spread of the virus to West Africa will be discouraged now from making the trip. But in this mounting pressure, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is digging an appeal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I don't believe when you're dealing with something as serious as this that we can count on a voluntary system. This is government's job. If anything else the government's job is to protect the safety and health of our citizens. And so we have taken this action and I absolutely have no second thoughts about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: This as the latest U.S. patient with Ebola New York Dr. Craig Spencer remains in an isolation unit at Bellevue hospital. And we have learned that Ebola Nancy Writebol has donated blood plasma to Spencer. It has only been a few days since a few states enacted those mandatory Ebola quarantines. And this list of critics is already a lengthy one, the latest edition to this lest as we mentioned, the White House.
Let me turn to CNN'S Erin McPike at the White House in Washington.
Erin, how is the Obama administration reacting to these state imposed quarantines?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT: Ana, this is a real turning point for the White House in terms of getting criticism and reacting. You may remember with the Ebola czar, in naming Ron Klain, they really responded after awhile to some of those critics in finally naming one, him.
In terms of this, we have been hearing from administration officials over the last two days and especially this morning, with Dr. Anthony Fauci and U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power. They have both on coming down hard on this. We know that the White House is not looking favorably at New York and New Jersey for imposing these new regulations. And we did just get in a statement from a senior administration official. I want to read part of that statement to you.
They say, we have let the governors of New York, New Jersey and other states know that we have concerns to unintended consequences of policies, not grounded in Science, may have efforts to combat Ebola as source in West Africa. We have also let these states know that we are working on new guidelines for returning health care workers that will protect the American people against imported cases while at the same time enabling us to continue to tackle this epidemic in West Africa.
Now, I would also point out that Samantha Power said in an interview with NBC News that she believes that these new regulations are haphazard and not well thought out and it will have the effect of discouraging health care workers from traveling to West Africa. The U.S. is sending some 3,000 workers, also from the department of defense. And really, we have heard from a number of high level administration officials that they would like to see other countries send health care workers as well. And they want New York and New Jersey to really rethink these regulations, Ana.
CABRERA: All right. Erin McPike, thank you so much.
To quarantine or not to quarantine, some say it is necessary and some say it will just create new problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm concerned of the disincentive for the health care workers. And it's interesting, I think people lose that the best way to protect us is to stop it in Africa. And one of the best ways to stop it in Africa is to get health care workers who are going through and helping them with their problem. When they come back they need to be treated in a way that does notes disincentivize them from going there.
REP. TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We do not have a vaccine. We do not have a cure. We only have treatment. And one of the things to understand, a virus constantly trying to mutate, constantly trying to find a new host to live on. And as such, quarantine is the only thing that breaks the link.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: So three states have now imposed their own quarantine rules.
Joining me now is California Congressman Adam Schiff.
Congressman, thanks for being here. Where do you stand on these quarantines?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), SENIOR MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I think the quarantine decisions are rash and they all considered an inconsistent with what the health care professionals have been saying. And so I'm very concerned about it to treat all whop comeback, all the medical practitioners in the same say even those that have been tested negative for Ebola, who are symptomatic I think will discourage people from going to the region to try to help to provide those emergency medical services that are so necessary to try to contain this epidemic in West Africa. That is not only best for West Africa, but that is best for America. We cannot insulate ourselves from this problem if it gets further out of control in the African continent. Sp I think it is also counterproductive.
CABRERA: Our representative, I hate to interrupt you. We need to just hold on for a moment and listen in to a press conference just getting underway, New York mayor Bill de Blasio.
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY: With the extraordinary health care professionals here at Bellevue hospitals. We met with doctors, nurses, and other employees who are doing an absolutely amazing job in this moment of crisis.
As I have said before, this is a hospital that is no stranger to the very toughest situations, whether it was 9/11, hurricane Sandy, the aids crisis of 20 years ago, this hospital has been the go-to medical facility in New York City for decades. And the people here handle themselves with that battle tested spirit and professionalism that strength that you would expect from people who have been part of the toughest situations. If there was a military analogy to be made, the people who work at
Bellevue are the marines of our health care system. They are extraordinarily tough and capable and only the finest get to be a part of this operation at Bellevue hospital.
We, Chirlane and I, went to the isolation floor, the floor where Dr. Spencer is now. We met with the medical team, we met with the nurses, each and every one of them, not just volunteering to do this crucial work, volunteering with the sense of mission believing it is their duty to take on the toughest assignment.
And I want to talk to you about some of the discussion that is happening around this country related to our health care professionals particularly our nurses. I also want to talk about some of what some individual nurses have experienced here even in the city in the last few days of people misunderstanding what's going on right now.
But let me just dwell for a moment on the fact that we went to the floor that is now the center of this moment, the eyes of the world are on the isolation floor at Bellevue hospital. And the people who work there were calm and cool and collected. They were purposeful. I met people who have been providing care to Dr. Spencer over the last few days. They had a purposeful attitude, sober, straightforward. They understand what their duty is and they are only too proud to perform it. And we all need to honor them. We all need to respect them. The same way we respect soldiers who go into battle to protect us. The same way we respect first responders, firefighters, EMTs, police officers, we need to respect our nurses, our doctors, our lab technicians. They are the first responders in this crisis and they are doing an absolutely extraordinary job.
I remind you from the moment on Thursday, when Dr. Spencer called and said he had for the first time had a fever, from that moment on, everybody, everybody in our health care system here in New York City, folks who work in our emergency medical service, our office of emergency management, all of the different pieces have coordinated in an incredibly effective fashion and the care for Dr. Spencer continues to be the finest in the world. You will hear an update from the president of the health and hospitals corporation in a moment on Dr. Spencer.
Again, the medical personnel fighting this fight, particularly our nurses deserve our respect. We heard reports in the last few days of nurses being mistreated in our city when it became clear that they worked at Bellevue, being treated differently. We heard reports of people being unwilling to serve food or treating their children differently.
That is absolutely unacceptable. That is absolutely unacceptable. We are in a crisis where we all have to hang together and we have to first respect our first responders. I did not see people disrespecting soldiers in war time or police or fire in the middle of the crisis that they respond to. I will not accept anyone disrespecting our nurses or our other medical personnel. And anyone who stands in the way of their work, stands in the way of everything we have to do in New York City to protect our people, there will be consequences for those individuals. I want it that very plain.
Second, we have watched so many of us the events unfold in New Jersey. Anyone who has heard nurse Hickox explain her situation in her proud, passionate, intelligent voice knows that what happened to her was inappropriate. Each government has to make decisions. We understand that. Federal government has made serious decisions. The state governments have a right to make decisions. But the problem here this hero coming back from the front, having done the right thing, was treated with disrespect, was treated with a sense that she had done something wrong when she hadn't, was not given a clear direction. We respect the right of each government to make decisions that they think are right for their people, but we to think how we treat the people who are doing this noble work. We must show them respect and consideration at all times. And owe her better than that and all the people who do this work better than that.
Here in New York City, we have faith in our public health system. We believe and we think we have a lot of fact to back this up. We believe it is the finest health care system in the world. We have seen that on display here at Bellevue in these last days. And I want to emphasize that here in New York City; a medical system is fully prepared to handle the Ebola crisis.
Our medical expert have been the disease intensely. In fact, we work in the isolation floor, Chirlane and I watched as a group of them in a conference room were having, the conference call with medical experts from around the country contain and perfect their approach to treatment.
And we are working every day with our state and federal partners. And we believe that that is the word to use in the moment of crisis, we are all partners. Out state government, our federal government, are necessary partners in this fight. And we will treat them as such.
We have been working in close, close coordination which is why everything has been done so smoothly. The information and support we received in the CDC and other federal agencies and support we received from the state health department. We're not going to engage any sense of division. It is absolutely a time when unity is necessary to fight this disease. So we will continue constantly to communicate with our state and federal partners. Protocols have been set in place and they are being (INAUDIBLE) follow.
I want to say what I have said last few days because I have to say it every day. There is no reason for New Yorkers to be alarmed. This is a very difficult disease to contract, very difficult. It is not airborne. It cannot be contracted through casual contact, only through direct contact with bodily fluids.
As Dr. Basset said a few days ago, reflecting on the situation in Dallas, all of the individuals quarantined in Mr. Duncan's house who had close contact with Mr. Duncan, every single one of them left quarantine a few days ago healthy. So it takes an extraordinary amount of direct and physical and intimate contact to contract this disease. Any New Yorker who has not been exposed to bodily fluids of someone with the disease cannot get sick. And there is no reason for New Yorkers to change their habits in anyway.
And if you look around the city the last few days on our subways, on our streets, and our restaurants, no one is changing their habits. New Yorkers are strong, resilient, focused and they understand there is no cause for alarm and they should go about their business and they are.
I think one of the reasons that has happens is because of the strong and clear voice of our health commissioner. And I want to thank Dr. Marie Bassett for being a voice of calm, sanity, voice of factuality throughout this crisis. I think all New Yorkers deserve her. And she deserves from all New Yorkers a deep thank you for what she's done in behalf of all of us. Thank you, Dr. Basset.
We want to answer the question that all New Yorkers are asking. What can they do? There are two things and only two things we're advising.
If an individual believes they meet the characteristics that could suggest that they have been exposed to the disease, they have been in one of the three affected countries in the last 21 days or been in close intimate contact with someone who was, and additionally they have a fever, those individuals should either call 911 immediately or go to an emergency room. No other options. Do not go to a private doctor. Do not see if it passes by. Immediately call 911 or go to an emergency room if you are in that situation.
And second, we have talked about the fact that the symptoms related to Ebola can seem like symptoms related to the common flu and that is a challenge for our public health capacity. Because flu symptoms are similar to Ebola, the less flu we have, the easier it will be for the medical system to focus on Ebola. Therefore, every New Yorker who has not yet gotten the flu shots should do it immediately. It is easy. It's available at doctor's offices, clinics, many pharmacies. You can actually help our medical professionals to focus their attention on the challenge at hand by doing something as simple as getting a flu shot.
A few words in Spanish. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CABRERA: We have been listening to New York City mayor Bill de Blasio talking about the crisis around the world. But specifically the situation here in New York City was Dr. Craig Spencer still being treated at Bellevue hospital and he talked about how Bellevue and the nurses and the doctors and the care providers, they are he called them like the marines of the hospitals here in New York City. They are well prepared to handle the situation and they are doing so cool calm and collectedly and with the very sense of purpose.
I want to bring in our CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen who we know was listening in to that press conference as well and has been on top of the Ebola situation in the U.S. from the very beginning.
Elizabeth, what stood out about what you heard?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think that (INAUDIBLE) comparing these workers to the marines is interesting. I think what he was trying to say is that these doctors and nurses are taking risks in the same way that marines takes risk. And I think he is also saying that respect is due to them that they're on the frontline, they are defending us whether they are taking care of Ebola patients here or in Africa. They're trying to put a stop to this outbreak. Only by putting a stop to this outbreak can we be protected. And I think the mayor was dismay that some New Yorkers have not been kind to some of the nurses. He mentioned that the restaurants they were being served and children were being bullied.
CABRERA: Hello, Elizabeth. We have another speaker right now, Dr. Ram Raju. Let's break away from our conversation and listen in.
DR. RAM RAJU, PRESIDENT/CEO, NEW YORK CITY HEALTH AND HOSPITALS CORPORATIONS: He tolerated the plasma treatment which was given to him yesterday well and he had a good night sleep. From his full stay here, he expressed gratitude with the care he is receiving under the watchful eyes of the dedicated, well-trained and professional team of ICU physicians and nurses we exclusively assigning to his care.
On behalf of the patient, I thank all New Yorkers for the prayers and well wishes. The health and hospitals corporation family and the expert team in Bellevue are committed to do what we do best and we do the best for this brave caring doctor and we wish him all the best and bring him back to good health.
To the numbers of media, I just have a request. In distributing the flyers which visibly tells you that if the photography of the correct personnel PPE which our doctor and nurses and other health care providers are daunting (ph), due to the care of the patient, so I would very much like you to take this picture in your new statements.
With that, thank you very much, Mayor, for the opportunity and thanks for the kind words.
DE BLASIO: Thank you Dr. Raju for your leaderships of this extraordinary health and hospitals corporation and for all the work that is being done here at Bellevue.
I just want to take a note of the fact that late afternoon yesterday I had a tremendous honor. I spent about ten or 12 minutes on the phone with Dr. Craig Spencer. . And I have to tell you it is always an honor to speak to a hero, but to speak to someone who is literally fighting for his life but has energetic, focused and concerned for others, I should add has a great sense of humor and it was quite a bit in evidence late afternoon yesterday, this is an incredibly noble human being. And there have been some, again, misunderstandings and misstatements about this individual.
This is someone who did what we would only wish any of us would do in a moment of crisis. He ran towards the danger. He went to where the need was greatest. Not only to protect people in the nation in which he serve, but to protect all of us here at home, to protect the entire world. And I express my gratitude to him on behalf of the people in New York City. He is truly a hero. He is an incredibly humble human being and someone that I look forward to spending time with when he has made his recovery. With that, I would like to turn to the chief medical officer for
Bellevue and, again, express my great appreciation to him and all of his team for their professionalism and their effectiveness, Dr. Nathan Link.
DR. NATHAN LINK, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, BELLEVUE HOSPITAL: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your kind words of support and for your presence here and support for the last three days.
As most of you know, we have been preparing for this moment for three months. We, Bellevue, we HHC, together with department of health and mental hygiene, and FTNY, we began preparing three months ago before -- because the mayor asked us to, to be ready for the moment when a patient might possibly appear in the city with the Ebola virus disease.
We needed every bit of those three months to prepare. It was an enormous challenge to create essentially a hospital within a hospital with all new procedures and policies, to train our staff from head to toe, to procure equipment and really with a fine tooth comb go over every single aspect of the care so that we would be ready. And we did this together with our colleagues and the department of health, the middle hygiene and our brothers and sisters in FTNY to make those procedures work so that when a patient came, arrive, it would go smoothly.
I am pleased to say that all that preparation paid off. Every step of the way everybody did exactly as they were supposed to. And I haven't really identified a single misstep in any aspect of the care that has taken place.
So I'm immensely proud of our staff, our nurses and doctors, our lab techs, our transporters, the waste handlers, all the people have a job to play and are playing it exactly as it has been scripted, and based on things that we learn from other experts around the country in Emory, in Nebraska, who I consider a gold standard for how to care for very sick patients safely.
The care of the patient is under the direction of Dr. Laura Evans, director of critical care at Bellevue hospital. Dr. Evans is experienced in critical care and has also as the mayor described, been consulting regularly with colleagues around the country with tremendous experience in the care of Ebola patients. At Emory, the CDC in Nebraska, there is really a daily conference call. And I have just been overwhelmed by the support that has come pouring in from these folks and elsewhere to move heaven and earth to deliver whatever care we need, experimental agents, whatever this patient needs. I think it's fair to say that if any treatment is available in the world it's available to our patient. And he has had an opportunity, given his experienced, to participate in decision making and choosing the options that are right for him. So I am very proud of our doctors and proud of our nurses.
And I want to end by saying that we recognize, we see Dr. Spencer as a hero working overseas but we also see the staff of the hospital, especially our nurses who are in the room all the time as heroes here in New York City. And I echo the mayor's words of wishing that the people of the city appreciate, expressed appreciation for the work that the staff of our hospital and the agencies all through this city have been doing in the last three days to keep our city safer, our staff safe and our patients safe. Thank you very much.
DE BLASIO: Thank you, Doctor. Well said. And have to echo --
CABRERA: So again, we have been listening into this press conference by New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio. We just heard from a couple of doctors who have been involved in the care and treatment of Dr. Craig Spencer who is the Ebola patient here in New York City. We heard from Dr. Ram Raju saying that Dr. Spencer tolerated the plasma treatment well. Remember he got blood plasma from Nancy Writebol, an Ebola survivor. He also got a good night's sleep.
I want to bring back our Elizabeth Cohen to discuss a little bit more about what we heard from, also the chief medical officer who just said, Elizabeth, that if there is any treatment available that has been made available to Dr. Spencer, and in fact, he has been able to participate in deciding which treatment he gets. What more do we know about how he is moving forward in this care facility and in his own treatment?
COHEN: Right. Well, we have been told that he got that blood transfusion from Nancy Writebol. Hopefully her anti-bodies, because she successfully fought the disease off, hopefully her antibodies will help Dr. Spencer.
We are also told she is getting -- he is getting an anti-viral medication. The hospital hasn't said whether it is an experimental one or not. My guess is that it is because those are the ones that seem to hold the most promise against Ebola, it could for example be, for instance, about severe which several other patients have received. But really the most important thing, there is no magic bullet here. It is keeping him hydrated and keeping his electrolytes balanced. That's a real concern for Ebola patients to get so dehydrated during the course of their illness.
CABRERA: And Representative Adam Schiff is still with me as well. He is our congressman from California who we were speaking to before this press conference took place.
Representative Schiff, we heard in that press conference from the New York City mayor that some of the nurses who are taking part in the treatment and care of Dr. Spencer have been in many ways bullied by people who find out that they are from Bellevue and have treated, in his words, disrespectfully. What's your reaction?
SCHIFF: Well, I think the mayor is exactly right. It is appalling. These people should be celebrated for their courage. To beat this virus, we are going to need brave health care professionals to go to Africa, to serve and help stand up some of these units as our troops are doing and they should be welcomed home as conquering heroes. I mean, they are really on the forefront of this fight and we should have nothing but admiration for them. Which is it's so distressing to see, you know, this forced isolation
of this health care practitioner now in New Jersey and the way she has been treated. I'm glad that the mayor called out her case in particular because I think it's indicative of a reaction that is not based on science, not based on professional opinion but a rash decision that will have negative repercussions in discouraging people from going to Africa to maintain a spike.
CABRERA: Congressman, do you feel there might be a happy medium? Is there some other kind of safety procedure that the U.S. or that states could implement other than these mandatory quarantines that we are seeing taking place now in New Jersey, in New York, as well as Illinois?
SCHIFF: No. I think it's certainly impossible to Taylor make the procedure so that in addition to the protocols we have established where people take their temperature twice a day, in cases that may be higher risk, maybe we have professionals go and monitor them or make house calls on them. In cases where on the other hand, people have already been tested and tested negative and are symptomatic and there is no reason to believe there has been any jeopardy, then you don't need the kind of across the board quarantine like we see now in New Jersey.
So I think that moving to a protocol where we treat each patient differently, we treat each person coming back differently, makes a lot of sense that is much more consistent with science. But I think that we're overreacting in these states that adopted this without a lot of thought. And I think it's going to harm our efforts to encourage the people we need to go to Africa to fight this disease.
CABRERA: Congressman Adam Schiff and Elizabeth Cohen, thank you both for joining me.
And as mentioned, the nurse, said a New York (ph), is being held against her will as part of a mandatory quarantine from anyone traveling from Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone.
Her exclusive interview with CNN, next.
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CABRERA: Welcome back. One of the loudest critics of the mandatory Ebola quarantines, a New Jersey nurse who was quarantined upon returning from West Africa. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Kaci Hickox called her quarantine a quote " knee jerk reaction" by politicians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KACI HICKOX, NURSE UNDER MANDATORY EBOLA QUARANTINE IN NEW JERSEY: It's really inhumane. I just came back from one of the most difficult months of my life and I am completely desensitized. And no one knows, no one can deck whether I will develop Ebola in the next 21 days. And lowest day would come back will infected with Ebola. So to quarantine everyone in case, you know, when you cannot predict who may develop Ebola or not, and to make me stay for 21 days, to not be with my family, to put me through this emotional and physical stress is completely unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Sop let me bring Dr. Seema Yasmin, former CDC disease detective and staff writer for "the Dallas Morning News."
Dr. Yasmin, you were former CDC. Would you have made these recommendations when it comes to quarantines?
DR. SEEMA YASMIN, FORMER CDC DISEASE DETECTIVE: So the concern now in the public health community is that this policy does not align with the science. It does not make sense from a medical perspective because the nurse Kaci Hickox has had two negative tests for Ebola. She has no symptoms of Ebola and she is not a threat to the public. And it is sends a message in the medical community here in the U.S. that politicians perhaps don't care about the science. I mean, they don't care about health care worker who are doing that utmost to stop the epidemic in West Africa and therefore protecting the health of Americans.
CABRERA: We just heard from the White House and their request that these quarantines by reversed in New Jersey, New York and Illinois. But if not quarantines, for those who are really worried about the safety of the public, what else could be done?
YASMIN: So what can be done is actually to follow the protocols set by the organization like Doctors without Borders, which was what Kaci had said that she would do which to self quarantine at home, to take temperatures twice a day, and to stay in close contact with an isolation facility and with health care providers and to quickly report any symptoms at all. And that would really protect the public's health while also respecting the very important health care workers who are making this huge sacrifice to go inside in West Africa.
CABRERA: I know, Dr. Yasmin, you know Kaci Hickox quite well. And she told you and she told CNN. She has no shower, no flushable toilet. She is wearing paper scrub (ph). And even initially, she had nothing to read and no TV. I mean, the fact that she has already tested negative twice, does it make sense that she is being isolated in a hospital?
YASMIN: From a clinical perspective and public health perspective it does not make sense that she is being detained. Because, as you mentioned, she had this two negative test. She has no symptoms. Therefore she is not capable of transmitting Ebola even if she had it to anybody.
The policy really did not align with the science at all. And it stigmatizes health care workers like her who are heroes, who have to serve in West Africa who returned home. And then in her instance are detained.
Information was withheld from her even when she spoke to a high ranking public health official and asked what was going to happen to her, they said we don't know. And this is very concerning to health care workers from the U.S. who were in West Africa now who are concerned about how they will be treated when they return home to the U.S. And for many others who are being asked to go and make a sacrifice and serve overseas who are thinking that they may not do that now because of how this quarantine policy has played out.
CABRERA: We learned that Hickox has now met with the lawyer. Do you think there is some kind of legal case to be had here?
YASMIN: Well, her lawyer says that there possibly is because she was detained without justification. It has not been explain why she is being isolated. That she is essentially in solitary confinement since she doesn't have any symptoms of Ebola and since she two negative tests. There seems to be a legal case to be made here as to why somebody who is not a public health threat to anybody is being detained.
CABRERA: It is an interesting conversation, Dr. Seema Yasmin. Thank you for your time. Definitely appreciate your expertise as always.
YASMIN: Thank you.
CABRERA: Coming up, the federal officials and CDC facing off against the governors of New York and New Jersey, for imposing mandatory new Ebola quarantine rules. Are these quarantines good idea or just signs of fear? We will discuss more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Mandatory Ebola quarantines are raising serious ethical and legal questions. First among them could rigid quarantine discourage doctors and nurses from treating Ebola patients?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA POWER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: We need to encourage more. We need many more than are going right now. And we need to find a way when they come home that they are treated like conquering heroes and not stigmatized for the tremendous work that they have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)\
CABRERA: Now President Obama himself is stepping into the quarantine debate. CNN has learned that the White House is now pushing back on those three governors who enacted quarantines -- New York, New Jersey and Illinois.
Joining me to discuss is commentator and legal analyst Mel Robbins, also CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson.
Mel, let's start with you. What is the biggest legal issue here when it comes to quarantines?
MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR/LEGAL ANALYST: Well, frankly, I think the quarantines are absolutely absurd. This is a complete fear driven knee jerk reaction of the government responding to people in the public being panicked. But legally, I don't think she has a leg to stand on because the public policy concerns outweigh somebody's individual liberty concerns. But so if she were to sue, I know she has hired a lawyer, I don't think she's going to be that successful.
CABRERA: So there really is not a legal basis for her to say I am being treated unjustifiably.
ROBBINS: Correct, because they have the legal grounds to issue a quarantine of this nature, particularly when people are coming in and crossing into the United States. But that aside, I think it's an absolute absurd thing that we have done.
CABRERA: Ben, a lot of people have said that this, you know, is pitting science against political policy. Let's talk about maybe political fallout of these Ebola quarantines. The midterm elections, of course, are just about a week away. Ebola quarantines now an issue?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is huge liability. I mean, in Texas, when we have this here in Dallas where I am, you saw the elected officials taking a huge beating because unfortunately, they originally went with the CDC guidelines. They went with the federal government guidelines and it was a total disaster. And so, then you had health care workers just like we're now seeing in New York who are calling in sick saying they don't feel protected.
You know, we can talk about the science. But ultimately, it's easy for us to say that we shouldn't quarantine when in fact, there are many health care workers saying I'm not going to work because I don't feel protected. I don't feel like the CDC guidelines are appropriate. I don't feel like we are getting the whole story. And I felt like we are putting too much at risk.
And that's exactly what we had at the hospital here which is the reason why the two patients were moved in the end of the day is because their fellow coworkers who loved them and cared about them did not feel protected.
So I do think some of this is, you know, politics are local and these local officials are realizing that we're not exactly prepared for this. And partly that is the federal government and CDC's fault for not having the appropriate guidelines in the first place. So now, there is mistrust.
CABRERA: Mel, is there a legitimate safety concern here when you look at Dr. Craig Spencer's case? He's being, you know, in the media and the public hailed both as hero and a villain because of his actions of going out for a jog, going to the restaurant, going to subways.
ROBBINS: Yes. But he was not symptomatic then.
CABRERA: But he was feeling the fatigue that could have been --
ROBBINS: He didn't have a fever yet. Listen. Unless somebody is throwing up on you or defecating on you or
spitting on you, you're not getting the disease. Mr. Duncan's own family lived with him for two days when he was super symptomatic. Nobody has come down with it.
Everybody in the United States that has been a health care worker, not as member of the general public that has come down has been cured. Nobody is getting this unless they have been treating Ebola patients.
And so, what we are doing by having the government make policies based on people in the public panicking for no reason, because they are not going to get it, that is the real danger. And it is also going to send the message, Ben, that health care workers will not want to go if they will be quarantined here for 21 days. And the best way to stop this is to actually help them is to raise awareness.
FERGUSON: I'm OK with the compromise. But here is the other issue. You had a health care worker that got on a plane that did have a fever and the CDC let her get on the plane. And that is where you have put local officials and governors in a position where they have to step up. And it may not be on the best ideas, it may not be on the best information. But when we have allowed the CDC to be in control, I think you would agree with me, you wouldn't want to sit next to a nurse that got on a plane with a fever which is exactly what happened. You probably wouldn't want to go to a bowling birthday party with someone that was starting to feel a little bit sluggish who was up comes down with Ebola.
So in both situations, you had health care providers --
ROBBINS: I'm not planning on kissing her. I'm not planning on touching her on the plane. I'm not going to get Ebola. In fact, I will sit next to her because you're actually wrong about that assertion.
FERGUSON: Well, then great. Because the other people -- most people watching right now would not want to sit next to her with a fever.
ROBBINS: But you know what, Ben, the 21-day quarantine is not going to address the issue that you're talking about. And if you have got a nurse that has tested negative, not once but twice, doesn't have a fever and is in lockdown, you're basically creating policy that is being dictated by irrational panic by the public.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I'm not saying there shouldn't be a compromise.
ROBBINS: How about quarantine from the flu, for crying out loud, because more people are going to die from that than from Ebola.
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: Both of your points, I think got out there. Thank you both so much for your time. It has been a passionate debate that I think everybody is having around the country right now. So your points are well taken.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: In the fight against ISIS, a lot of the focus has been on the Syrian border, city of Kobani lately where the U.S. has carried out five more airstrikes this weekend.
But my next guest says the real fight in Syria is elsewhere in the country, Aleppo.
Jamie Dettmer, independent foreign correspondent and contributor for "the Daily Beast" is here with me now.
Jamie, what is the significance of Aleppo?
JAMIE DETTMER, INDEPENDENT FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT/ CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, while we have all been focused on Kobani, Assad forces have been taking advantage, really, and have been mounting defenses. This early October on Aleppo, which is second largest city in Syria, very close to cutting the one main supply line for the rebels (INAUDIBLE) back in Turkey.
And if they do so, we are then going to be faced with a siege of Aleppo which will decide the fate of the Syrian uprising and many, many ways. The rebel command isn't fooling on the U.S. to launch and strikes on the Assad forces which have backed up by Shia-Muslim fighters from Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Iran.
But so far, of course, nothing's happening. The U.S. administration is still considering that it can somehow enter, intervene in Syria, focus on ISIS, without really paying attention, I think, to the ramifications on the uprising as a whole.
CABRERA: You know, I read your article in the "Daily Beast," that "the battle for Aleppo: a decisive fight for ISIS, Assad, and the USA." And you really talk about just the complex dynamics or in and around Aleppo with these three players. But you just mentioned about the FSA and other rebel groups there in Aleppo calling on the U.S. or the coalition to do airstrikes against Assad, you know, that stands out because the fact of the matter is the U.S. is not fighting Assad right now. It has been very clear it's fighting ISIS.
So what would the dynamic do in terms of U.S. getting involved? I mean, obviously Assad is doing something else on his own right now while the U.S. attacks ISIS.
DETTMER: Well, Assad is using the opportunity to do a lot. I mean, for example, in 36 hours, alone, last week, we launched 210 airstrikes. The U.S. have launched in Syria and Iraq since September the 23rd 150 air -- 158 airstrikes.
You know, the problem for the U.S. is this idea that these two problems are not intertwined. For example, if the FSA and the more moderate rebels do suffer the loss of their half of Aleppo, then you're going to see a collapse of the uprising and strengthening of ISIS. As some rebel commanders point out to me, it means that demoralized fighters in their brigades well start joining ISIS.
And the administration is always, I think, not clearly understood that these are two problems which are very interconnected and it can't just separate them.
CABRERA: Ryan, unfortunately will we have to end it there. Thank you so much, Jamie Dettmer, for your work there, and your reporting to keeping us all honest. Appreciate it.
Coming up, we have some new details just into CNN on what went on Friday inside the cafeteria of Marysville-Pilchuck high. A new live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: What makes Africa wild? Anthony Bourdain finds out on this week's "PARTS UNKNOWN: TANZANIA."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: When we talk about Africa, we sadly tend to think of it as a country. Africa is not a country. Africa is a continent, incredibly diverse and complicated one. Whatever image we have of Africa tends to be formed by whatever films we've seen.
All of those romantic notions, I want to see magnificent landscapes, incredible animals, and extraordinary vistas and magnificent people. The other, in all of its diversity and beauty and strangeness, Tanzania's got that. All that stuff you thought you wanted, the most jaw-dropping moments. It's here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Let's turn now to Friday's school shooting in suburban Seattle. A community wide gathering is expected to begin at the top of the hour. And we're getting a clearer picture of what happened during those heart-pounding moments during which four students were wounded and another killed.
The two male victims were cousins of the gunman Jaylen Fryberg. Now, at the first sound of gunfire in a crowded cafeteria that day, a young teacher sprinted from a nearby office toward Fryberg with the attempt to stop him. She apparently grabbed his arm but he fired around and killing himself.
Our Dan Simon is outside the Marysville-Pilchuck high school.
Dan, we have now learned the identity of the girl who was killed. Who was she?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Ana. First of all, as you can see behind me, there's this makeshift memorial with flowers and balloons as people are going to file into the school for this community meeting. Just so much sadness here, and we can tell you the name of the girl who was killed, her name is Zoe Galasso. She was a freshman student. She was sitting that that table when the shooter approached them and, of course, we don't know why, but from what we're hearing, he went basically behind the friends, these were friends of his and just started opening fire.
Well, I can tell you that Zoe was described as somebody with a larger than life personality, a vibrant and they don't know why the shooter would target her of all people. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to know Zoe was an amazing person and is going to be missed. I don't know. I just can't imagine how we're going to live without her and she was so beautiful and she was so funny and amazing and we all loved her so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have any anger toward him. I just don't know what happened. It just doesn't make any sense. None of this makes sense. They were all very good friends. They were great friends. There's no explanation. Like, he snapped for whatever reason, and it just doesn't make any sense. That's what makes it so hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: Well, in addition to that account of the teacher trying to intervene and stop the shooter, we're also getting some new information from law enforcement, a law enforcement source telling CNN that the shooter Jaylen Fryberg attempted to reload his weapon, but he was having trouble because his hands were shaking -- Ana.
CABRERA: Sad story. Dan Simon, in Marysville, Washington, thank you.
And thanks for staying with us in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm And Cabrera.
