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Quarantined Nurse Complains about Treatment; Murphy: Quarantine Only Way to Break Chain of Ebola; Legion of Female Fighters Become U.S. Allies; Sacrificing Syria to Win Kobani; Seattle Shooting Grips Community; Renee Zellweger's Face

Aired October 26, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for being here in the CNN NEWSROOM with me. I'm Ana Cabrera.

Mandatory Ebola quarantines are triggering harsh political turf wars here in the U.S., a possible standoff between the White House and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. The White House says it contacted governors in New York and New Jersey and Illinois to push back on those mandatory health workers quarantines in those states.

But Governor Chris Christie's camp says not so fast. In fact, Christie's spokesman says the White House has not contacted Christie or anyone else in his administration about the quarantine policy. Meanwhile, a quarantined nurse in New Jersey says she was treated without compassion. New York City's Mayor Bill de Blasio says that nurse is a hero who deserves so much more respect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: This hero coming back from the front having done the right thing, was treated with disrespect, was treated with a sense that she had done something wrong when she hadn't was not given a clear direction. We respect the right of each government to make decisions that they think are right for their people, but we have to think how we treat the people who are doing this noble work. And we must show them respect and consideration at all times. And we owe her better than that and all the people that do this work better than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now tonight we also have some new details on New York ebola patient Dr. Craig Spencer. New York City's Health and Hospital's Coordination president, the corporation president says "The patient looks better than he looked yesterday but he remains in serious but stable condition with the expected symptoms of the virus."

Joining me now: senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, as well as correspondent Erin McPike at the White House. Elizabeth, I want to start with you. I know you spoke with that nurse in New Jersey. What is she telling you?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know she's telling me that she wishes that Governor Chris Christie would stop saying that she is, quote, "obviously ill", because she says she's fine and she's being detained against her wishes and she's feeling just fine. She does say that this whole ordeal sometimes makes her spirits very low.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE QUARANTINED IN NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: That everyone keep asking how are you feeling physically, and of course, I feel fine physically. But I don't think most people understand what it's like to be alone in a tent and to know that there's nothing wrong you and that decisions are being made that don't make sense and that show no compassion.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COHEN: Now Hickox has hired a lawyer and he says that he plans to go to court to get her a hearing. He said, look, if you're going to detain someone, you have to at least give them a hearing. He said it's the government is going to explain why they've taken her civil liberties away -- Ana.

CABRERA: I wanted to ask you, Erin about what we're hearing from the White House and what we're hearing from Chris Christie's camp. Now I know the White House responded earlier saying it's working on some new ebola guidelines and really condemned these quarantines happening in New Jersey, New York as well as Illinois. As far as what you're hearing, is the White House now pressuring these three states to ditch the quarantines by a certain date? What can you tell us?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, Ana, we have been hearing from administration officials really all week -- or all weekend, I should say -- criticizing these states for doing this. Dr. Anthony Fauci said this morning on "CNN STATE OF THE UNION" that the city's new quarantine regulations could have unintended consequences of discouraging health care workers from going over to West Africa to try to control ebola at its source.

Samantha Power, the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., said this is haphazard, not well thought out. And then throughout the day, we're hearing more and more in reporting from "The New York Times" and then the White House confirmed this afternoon they said we have let the governors of New York, New Jersey, and other states know that we have concerns with the unintended consequences of policies not grounded in science may have on efforts to combat ebola at its source in West Africa.

But then just within the last half hour or so, we have heard from the Christie administration, a spokesman for the Christie administration saying that neither the Governor, himself, nor anyone in his administration, has heard from the White House yet so it's becoming a matter of he said/she said.

Now, there was a big meeting at the White House this afternoon with a number of administration officials, cabinet secretaries, the President and Ron Klain, the Ebola czar was, in fact, at that meeting and they do say that they're going to be putting out some new guidelines in the next few days. We don't know exactly when that's going to be, but we have been hearing that it will be in the next few days. But they obviously have to act fast because all of these states are beginning to act on their own -- Ana.

CABRERA: Back to you, Elizabeth. I know you also spoke with Dr. Rick Sacra who is another U.S. ebola patient survivor and he's been the latest voice now to weigh in on these quarantines. What's he saying?

COHEN: Right, so Dr. Sacra who, himself, of course, a health care worker who was in Africa. He said it doesn't really make sense to him. He said, you know, Kaci Hickox doesn't have ebola, she tested negative twice. She isn't sick. So how could she possibly get someone else sick? He said he's dismayed by this quarantine and he's also like the President, you know, concerned about unintended consequences that if you keep workers from going out to help, the ebola outbreak will get worse there, which means it will get worse here.

CABRERA: All right. Elizabeth Cohen and Erin McPike, thank you to both of you tonight.

The new rules for healthcare workers returning from West Africa, pitting science against public policy as the federal government now pushing back. New York, New Jersey, and Illinois have already implemented mandatory ebola quarantine policies. But NIH director Dr. Anthony Fauci as Erin mentioned has spoken out saying he's very concerned that health care workers will be discouraged from making the trip.

And I talked about all of this with Congressman Tim Murphy. He's a Republican from Pennsylvania. He is the Chairman of the House, Energy and Commerce subcommittee on oversight and investigation and he's also a founding member of the GOP Doctors' Caucus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Actually I agree with those things. Right after our hearing with CDC director Tom Frieden and others, I immediately send a letter to the President and then asked him if that would be one of the nine recommendations to be fulfilled in addition to others. I think it is very important because we do not have a vaccine. We do not have a cure. We only have treatment.

And one thing to understand, a virus is constantly trying to mutate, constantly trying to find a new host to live on, and as such, quarantine is the only thing that breaks the link. That's our only way right now of stopping it except for some treatments and hoping that those who survive -- that many survive through some other treatments. So it is important to do that for those who have had direct contact with persons with ebola.

CABRERA: Yes we're talking about health care workers who are putting their lives on the line to help other people. What about those who don't want to be stuck in quarantine for 21 days like this nurse in New Jersey who we just learned tested negative for ebola? MURPHY: Well, they are -- these are courageous altruistic and

selfless people who traveled to Africa to help out. We're proud of them, we're thankful for them.

However that selflessness does not end at the borders of Africa. It continues when they come home because these physicians are people who take the Hippocratic Oath, "At first do no harm." We have to recognize that if they travel around, they can put other people at risk from having bodily fluids upon them and so it is best to do this.

And I should add that organizations like Samaritan's Purse and Doctors without Borders do recommend these kind of procedures, anyway. Samaritan's Purse says you have to stay restricted, you do not go on public transportation, you have to take your temperature every six hours. You have to stay within an hour of a hospital. Stay away from others.

Look, I believe people can adapt to these things and if all that comes out of this is inconvenience and these people don't spread the disease, ok, it's inconvenient. But the alternative is deadly. And along those lines I think it is something that if it's the only way we can break the chain of ebola, we need to do this for public health.

CABRERA: CNN heard from two officials today about these new quarantines. New York official familiar with the situation called this, quote, "a real stunner", adding that "this was done without consulting the city", without consulting the CDC. Federal officials are upset about that aspect, that they didn't even know about the plans for the quarantine and CDC officials aren't happy about it, either. How do you respond to this with medical experts saying this isn't a good idea?

MURPHY: Great. Well, the medical experts at CDC have already made a number of mistakes. They have not, I believe, updated their guidelines since the end of August. At first they said it was sufficient just to wear certain gowns and masks and hoods and then they later on changed that after they found that you could spread the infection. They have made some changes with regard to air travel. They have made a number of other changes.

So look, nobody's perfect in this and the biggest enemy we have in this among professionals is hubris and arrogance that makes us think we know it all. The trouble is we don't know it all.

Now I'm not a medical expert, I'm a psychologist. I know what leads to panic and worry and anxiety. And contributing to that is when people who are experts say one thing and then have to back track and say, you know, "I was speaking on something that really wasn't true."

That's our concern here. I'd much rather that we handle this in a way of sometimes say, this is an area we don't know totally about. For example, the CDC says you only have to take your temperature twice a day. I understand that Samaritan's Purse says you're going to take it four times a day, every six hours report to a physician.

So we are still learning a lot about this. And I believe caution is the best thing to use.

CABRERA: Pennsylvania, I know, none of the airports are in your state that have these mandatory quarantines at this point that are doing the new airport screenings. Why has Pennsylvania not just enacted these requirements automatically on their own, as a state?

MURPHY: I know our Governor Corbett is reviewing those things to happen. We also have ports to call, and I believe that many of these ports where ships come in to them from Western Africa such as Philadelphia are reviewing that. I know the CDC has an office in Philadelphia. But they're all important to do that.

But what happens right now is that the flights that come into the United States come into five special airports. I'm not sure we should be having people come in here if they don't have a need to come in here. But I know that Pennsylvania is going to have to do something about it, too, as will every other state that if someone comes into that state with ebola and has had contact or has had contact with ebola patients, these states could have to decide what to do because I'm not sure the CDC is going to act.

CABRERA: I know that you mentioned the word "panic" and everybody was very fearful, especially after the two nurses contracted ebola. It seems like there's been sort of a reemergence of that fear after this new case in New York. But we also heard good news this week, those two nurses who had ebola appear to be ebola free now.

What's your assessment about how the officials have been able to sort of make the adjustments and what's your assessment of the way they're handling things now in this latest case?

MURPHY: Well, we're grateful that those nurses are doing better and we keep the doctor in New York in our prayers, too. But what has happened here is the CDC needs to continue to make adjustments. They made some. They need to continue to review this on a daily basis because look, we have to be right 100 percent of the time. The virus only has to be right once.

What can come through in sweat and water droplets, and even just a touch come from the membrane of an eye when someone touches someone with it and then they touch their eye. There's all kinds of things here that need to be happening because this is a deadly and nasty virus that comes through. And so it only will work if we continue to adapt and in real-time as this virus is coming, but sometimes as some have said, we're operating in bureaucracy time, and the virus is acting in virus time. It's mutating all the time, trying to find enough hosts, trying to break through. We better not have the arrogance of saying we have all the answers and this is it. We have to be very careful.

CABRERA: Representative Tim Murphy from Pennsylvania. Thank you for your time.

MURPHY: Thank you, Ana.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CABRERA: The other big story we're following tonight, new developments in the war against ISIS. The ISIS hostages have mostly met grim fates but now we're learning some disturbing new details about their treatment in captivity. More on that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Tonight the "New York Times" is reporting that Western ISIS captives were tortured before being beheaded. American James Foley, the first Western hostage to be beheaded by ISIS on camera had apparently been singled out for particularly harsh treatment. "The Times" says it compiled this information by interviewing five former hostages, local witnesses, relatives and colleagues of these detainees.

Now, as for the fight against ISIS, coalition forces have hit the militants with 17 air strikes this weekend; five of them in the besieged Syrian border city of Kobani; now, the rest taking place around Iraq's strategically important Mosul Dam. And with the U.S. doing its fighting from the air, on the ground a contingent of female fighters could be one of the coalition's biggest allies.

Ivan Watson breaks down this surprising alliance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Meet America's newest de facto allies in its coalition against ISIS. These are Kurdish fighters from a group that calls itself the YPG, or People's Protection Units. And within the last week, the U.S. for the very first time began dropping assistance to YPG fighters defending the Syrian town -- the border town of Kobani against ISIS militants. And the U.S. air power has also been striking ISIS militants that have been laying siege to that town to support this faction.

Now, the YPG, if you look at their iconography, if you look at their symbols, they seem very similar to another Kurdish faction here in the Middle East that's known as the Kurdistan Worker's Party or PKK.

And here's where it gets complicated. The PKK is considered a terrorist organization by America's NATO ally, Turkey, because it's been fighting a guerilla war for some 30 years against Turkey. The U.S. officially labels the PKK a terrorist organization and less than five years ago, the U.S. was helping Turkey bomb PKK fighters in the mountains of northern Iraq.

But now the enemy of an enemy makes this group the U.S.' friend in its battle against ISIS. Now, these militants have gathered here in northern Syria in one of three mini Kurdish statelets (ph) that have grown up in this region since the civil war began in Syria. And they're commemorating some of the people, some of the fighters, who've been killed in the battle against ISIS which has been going on for quite some time. If you look over here, these -- many of these women have lost sons or husbands in this war.

And as you can see, they're chanting "Long live Apo" -- that's the name of Abdullah Ocalan. He leader of the Kurdistan Worker's Party or PKK. He's in prison in Turkey. And that's part of why America's decision to ally itself with these fighters is so controversial with its NATO ally, Turkey.

Ivan Watson, CNN, reporting from (inaudible) in northern Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Our thanks to Ivan.

Now, if the war on ISIS has an epicenter, perhaps it's in Kobani. But is the White House willing to abandon the rest of Syria to win the fight in that one town? We'll talk military strategy straight ahead.

And get ready, join Anthony Bourdain on an African adventure "PARTS UNKNOWN" style in Tanzania, from Zanzibar to the Serengeti, "PARTS UNKNOWN" takes on a wild adventure. "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" Tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: If you follow the U.S. war on ISIS lately, you might be tempted to think there was one particular target -- Kobani. The Syrian city is in the corner of ISIS territory right along the border with Turkey. But American warplanes carried out more air strikes on this one town than any other location in both Iraq or Syria; more than 135 this month, alone. But is this focus misguided?

Here with me now is Michael Weiss, "Now Lebanon" rather, foreign policy columnist. Michael I know you wrote this article titled "Winning Kobani, Losing Syria".

MICHAEL WEISS, "NOW LEBANON": Yes. Right.

CABRERA: That's a pretty bold statement. Explain.

WEISS: Well, I think you know, that's exactly what's happening. The United States went from in the space of about 36 hours saying that Kobani actually was not strategically important to the coalition's efforts to contain ISIS, right? This war is about one thing which is keeping ISIS on the back foot in Iraq and sort of letting them fester, if you like, in Syria.

And all of a sudden, Kobani became in the words of the "Wall Street Journal" symbolically important saying all these armaments have been dropped. The reason I think that this is the case is it's true. ISIS has thrown so much manpower, so many resources into taking this one city, it's what I would call "fly paper for terrorists". It makes it easy for coalition planes to bomb.

But look, if you're talking about sort of the strategy for Syria, the U.S. is still committed to this policy of Bashar al Assad stepping down from power, of so-called political settlements, which is nowhere near, you know, in the offing. This country is being lost. In the same space in which U.S. and coalition warplanes bombed Kobani or ISIS locations, the Assad regime by an order of magnitude increased its own air strikes on moderate Syrian rebels and other territories in Syria, both keeping that news out of the headlines because obviously we were focused on this one city and also doing what the regime has set out to do from the very beginning. Create a stark alternative which is either the regime stays, or ISIS takes over and nothing in between has any space --

CABRERA: So are you saying that maybe there's a flaw in the strategy in just going after ISIS?

WEISS: Well, look, I mean don't take my word for it. A very influential Hill staffer told me that this strategy was a complete joke this week. I've talked to many military commanders including those who were veterans from the Iraq war who think that, you know, in terms of winning hearts and minds in that great sort of cliche from the last decade, and cleaving the Sunni populations away from ISIS, we're doing nothing of the kind.

On the same day I think as, you know, some of the heaviest artillery was dropped on Kobani, the "Washington Post" had a story, nobody paid attention to this in late August. 700 Sunni tribesmen in Deir al-Zor which is an eastern province in Syria were summarily executed. We're talking beheaded, crucified, you name it, by ISIS. Nobody reported on this. It was because those tribesmen, those Sunni tribesmen had risen up against ISIS to try and push them out.

Now these are the forces on the ground in Syria that's been begging for U.S. assistance, either through the running of weapons or supplies or a no-fly zone and the U.S. so far is saying sorry, you're not really the priority. And what worries me and I've seen this -- I've been doing Syria for three years -- and I have seen the devolution of free Syrian army commanders who have gone all across the spectrum from moderate nationals' brigades to Islamist, to now ISIS.

Arabs in Syria are saying the U.S. is now our enemy. They have abandoned us. We don't support ISIS ideologically but now we see this as a Pan-Syrian struggle. They're supporting the Assad regime.

This may sound like a conspiracy theory.

CABRERA: So they believe, you're saying these moderate rebels, so to speak, on the ground in Syria now believe that the U.S. is aligning itself with Assad?

WEISS: Absolutely. That has been actually the going assumption since 2011 because we didn't come to their assistance. The problem is there's now a kernel of truth to that story. The U.S. has, quote, deconflicted this war from the Syrian regime's campaigns.

So while we're not directly coordinating with Assad, we're allowing him to completely bombard and terrorize the rest of Syria, the parts that we are not now bombing ISIS in.

CABRERA: So let me play devil's advocate because there are a lot of people in this country who don't want to see the U.S. get into a Syrian civil war, get involved with that aspect hence the reason not targeting Assad specifically.

WEISS: But it's too late. I mean, we're at war in Syria. It may not be with the regime, but in terms of getting involved, as the President once put it, somebody else's civil war. What are we doing in two countries in the Middle East, you know?

I mean the policy had been up until now containment. And as I wrote in another piece in "Politico", containment led to the caliphate. This has been the proliferation of jihadist groups, groups actually that the Assad regime allowed to take over whole swaths of the country.

Remember, and it's very important, in the West we kind of see these things in binary terms. This regime has a long history of collaborating and supporting terrorist groups such as ISIS. I'm not saying that they colluded directly with ISIS but what they did was, again, they wanted to create a choice for the West -- it's either us or terrorists. So they allowed this terrorist complete reign.

The Carter Center put out a report early in September and they did the actual math and they said prior to the taking of Mosul by ISIS in June the Assad regime had dropped only 10 percent of its bombs on ISIS and 90 percent of its bombs had been dropped on civilians and the moderate rebels that we claim to be supporting but actually according to those rebels are not.

CABRERA: Why is the U.S. then -- you know, how we started the segment, why has Kobani become so symbolically important and what happens if it does fall?

WEISS: Well, "The Daily Telegraph" in Britain said with all due respect to CNN that the U.S. is fighting a, quote, CNN war in Iraq and Syria. In other words, this is really about public relations. We don't want to see ISIS take over a city, commit genocide against an embattled ethnic minority population such as the Kurds so we decided we have to go all-in. That combined with what I said earlier, which is that ISIS is throwing everything including the kitchen sink at Kobani, it makes it easy for us to target them there.

But again, listen to what U.S. military commanders are saying. The priority is Iraq, it's not Syria. Syrians hear that and they say basically it's -- from the U.S. to Syria, "Drop dead." Now, consider what that - what kind of effect that will have in the long term in terms of radicalization, in terms of losing hearts and minds and getting people who used to only burn Iranian and Syrian and Hezbollah flags and have now taken to burning American flags in this country.

CABRERA: You know, it's definitely a complex situation.

WEISS: Absolutely.

CABRERA: In that part of the world. And the response to it. There's a lot more we could talk about for sure.

WEISS: Any time.

ANCHOR: I hope you'll come back to continue the conversation. Michael Weiss, thanks so much for being here.

WEISS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Another school shooting also making headlines this weekend. Young victims. A community grieving. A nation asking why there's an approach to guns that hasn't been tried. It's controversial, but some think it could help finally slow an epidemic of gun violence and save countless lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Friday's school shooting in suburban Seattle, again, raises the issue of easy access to guns and ammunition in today's society. A community meeting is under way right now at the high school where Jaylen Fryberg shot five classmates and then himself. Fryberg got a female student died, four others were seriously wounded.

Grief counselors are on hand to provide comfort and support at this meeting tonight. The (INAUDIBLE) school shooting has again ignited the conversation about gun control. But just talking about gun control can be full of peril. The stalled nomination of Dr. (INAUDIBLE) Murphy for U.S. surgeon general ran into some trouble in the Senate partly because he called guns a public health issue.

So I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Mel Robins, as well as Sunny Hostin who are joining us. Ladies, in light of this new school shooting, does Dr. Murphy have a point, perhaps, maybe that, you know, gun violence could be a public health issue, Mel?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's a public health solution in terms of looking at the approach to curbing gun violence, but I think we have a political problem in this country. I mean, when you start to talk about gun control, gun violence, you either have people that say, OK, guns completely evil, you got to get rid of them, you got to deny people access. And then you have other people saying, no, no, you're not touching my gun. That's a constitutional right of mine.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I actually do think it's a public health issue and I think the way to look at it when you look at this issue, what is the threshold for calling something a public health issue? Remember, we're both mothers. Remember when there were the crib bumpers around and kids were being smothered and they were dying. That was considered a public health issue.

We had the SIDS situations where kids were dying in their sleep. That was considered a public health issue. And so now if you - we look at Ebola. I hate to draw that distinction because I know I'm going to get all these crazy twitter tweets, but the bottom line is, we've got 300 million people in the United States and we've got, what, three cases of Ebola here in the United States and we're saying "oh my gosh, it's a public health issue." Well, hundreds of people are killed every day in the streets of the United States, and - ROBBINS: 305 shootings.

HOSTIN: Every day.

ROBBINS: Every day.

HOSTIN: And so to suggest somehow our that medical professionals, our mental health professionals shouldn't get involved, I think it's just -

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: But the problem is that if you don't call it a political problem, there's no way that the NRA is going to let medical professionals get involved because they tried to get involved in Florida. Pediatricians simply wanted to ask patients whether or not there were guns in the house.

HOSTIN: They asked patients whether or not -

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: A few other examples there. Sunny, even suicide is considered a public health issue.

HOSTIN: It's a public health issue. So, again, if you look at what the threshold is for calling something a public health issue, let's be real. This is a social disease. If you look at guns sort of like a virus, who's to say it isn't a public health issue? Why are we so afraid of the NRA? I'm not afraid of the NRA. Why are we so afraid of the NRA?

CABRERA: Does the NRA have have a point now?

ROBBINS: Do they have a point now?

No, they got pocketbooks and they spend it and they intimidate politicians and just like they did in Florida, they passed a law by bullying politicians to make it illegal, illegal, for a medical doctor to ask you whether or not you are a gun owner. In a medical interview. And so until you actually understand the politics behind this, yes, they're great examples. Sunny, you listed a bunch. Another one would be lung cancer. We've done tremendous public health -

HOSTIN: Car accidents.

ROBBINS: Car accidents, another one.

HOSTIN: Car accidents are considered a public health issue. Drinking while driving. Driving under the influence. That's a public health issue. People, gun violence is a social disease. It's a public health issue.

ROBBINS: And maybe -

CABRERA: Bottom line.

ROBBINS: Maybe if people start to see it that way, they will stop just being so one sided and saying, "hey, I've got guns, screw you, you're not going to say anything about registration."

CABRETA: One thing I want to throw out there, though, as an alternative idea, so let's say gun control isn't the answer, what about restricting ammunition or restricting and controlling that ammunition in the same way you control prescription drugs?

ROBBINS: I actually have a better idea. I personally think if you are going to own a gun in this country, which you have the constitutional right to do, there's great responsibility that comes with it. And one of the things that would make a big difference is you're actually liable for what happens with the gun you own.

HOSTIN: I'm all for that. I'm all for that. And I think to answer your question, I think that's a great idea. I think we have to open up to all of those kinds of ideas because we are in the midst of what I believe is an epidemic. It's a social disease. And no one is saying, and I think this is where the NRA is getting hung up on, no one is saying you can't have your gun. We need to not necessarily look at the people who have the right to have their guns who are lawful gun owners. We need to look at the disease. The guns that are getting into hands of people that are mentally ill, that are just bad guys that are shooting people because they have business interests because they're running criminal enterprises.

These people shouldn't have guns, but we have to address the problem and why not have our medical professionals? I think that the AMA and doctors are really split because I spoke to my husband who's a surgeon. He was like, I don't think it's a public health issue. But then I spoke to his best friend who's in public health. He said absolutely.

ROBBINS: Well 90 percent of doctors saying they don't want to talk to people about it.

CABRERA: Stay with me, ladies. We're going to talk more about politics and other things.

Let's talk about the midterm elections. Do you feel blah when you talk about the midterm elections? Have you even thought about it? Well, if not, you're not alone. Because the upcoming election could tip the balance of power in the Senate, so maybe it could even decide the fate of the Supreme Court, Obamacare, reasons to pay attention. But how come so many people could not care less?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Kind of hard to believe the midterm election is now just a week from Tuesday. If you haven't given much thought to the upcoming vote, you are not alone. Polls show Americans just aren't into it this year. There's been a decline, in fact, from June to October when you look at the polling. CNN's legal commentators, legal analysts, Mel Robbins and Sunny Hostin here again to talk more about the midterm election. Mel, since Sunny had the last word in the last segment, let's start with you.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: I'll fight you for it.

CABRERA: Why do you think people are so apathetic?

ROBBINS: Well, I tell you why I am. Number one, I, like many Americans, have an all-time high in terms of dissatisfaction with Congress. And I feel like no matter who you vote for, nothing is going to change. Here's the other thing. I don't see a candidate I like. Because I don't see a single Republican who I'm going to align with on economic policies being forthright about women's rights to choose and about gay marriage and about the legalization of marijuana, social issues that I care about, and yet I look at the liberals and while I may agree with them on social issues, I don't want my taxes raises and I don't want any more handout programs. So I don't actually see a candidate out there that represents my point of view. So I'm like enough with all of you. That's why I'm not a political commentator.

CABRERA: What do you think, Sunny?

HOSTIN: Well, I'm always very interested in politics and very, very interested in voting because I think as a person of color it was so very difficult for my community to have the right to vote that I rock the vote every single chance that I get. I think that it's so important for us to rock the vote to get involved because the bottom line is while you may not like some of the candidates and you may not like what's going on, you can't affect change if you're not part of it.

And so I say, I show up, sometimes I don't relaly know that much about the candidate, I try to get engaged, I try to get interested, find out what's going on but I make sure my voice is heard. What I heard from a lot of younger people -

CABRERA: Right.

HOSTIN: Is with the electoral college, my vote doesn't really count. So why vote? I think maybe that's part of the problem. People don't think that their vote counts. But it does.

ROBBINS: Well, I also think that it counts tremendously on a local level. In terms of the day-to-day impact on your life. I'm talking about in federal elections. If you look at what we cover, not necessarily we as in CNN, but if you look at what the media covers, they're covering mostly the fan incident in Florida between, you know, the debate for the two guys running for governor, not about the difference of opinion. They're looking at the race in Kentucky because it's so contentious but they're not really talking about the issues.

HOSTIN: They're caught up in the drama.

ROBBINS: We're talking about the TMZ aspect of politics. So while it is important to show up, showing up and also not doing the research which, you know, a lot of us do, also doesn't help.

CABRERA: Sunny, there's been a lot of talk about perhaps the Democrats could lose the Senate. That would give Republicans a majority in the senate and the house.

HOSTIN: Right.

CABRERA: What will the Democrats blame if they lose the Senate? Would it be the president? Is there a singular issue that is going to rock the vote this election?

HOSTIN: Well, everything has been President Obama's fault, right? I mean, we know the Republicans got together very early on and said we want to make him a one-term president. I've always said it's a racial issue because no other president has been treated with the disrespect that President Barack Obama has been treated to. We've had this sort of birther thing, he's not really an American. And so I think there's no question that everyone is going to blame this president because that's what everyone's been in the habit of doing. But I think the real blame -

ROBBINS: His polls are down, too, so they don't want that -

HOSTIN: Well, of course, because they're saying he can't get anything done. Of course he can't get anything done when you have a Congress that's been completely obstructionist from the very beginning. So, unfortunately, I think the upside of if the Republicans are, they win the Senate, then they're going to get something done. But maybe they're not going to get done what we want them to do. Right?

ROBBINS: They're not going to lose the Senate based on what happens in Massachusetts where I live, because it's democratic, democratic, democratic. Maybe not the governor's race. But I still think it's also midterm elections and people are overwhelmed with life and they don't think that it's going to make a difference. They really don't. Because Congress has been lousy for the last four years at least.

CABRERA: All right. Mel, Sunny, stay with me.

There was no shortage of serious stories this week. So we're going to take a little break because online a lot of people were obsessed with one question, what happened to Renee Zellweger's face? We can't definitively answer that question, but we can ask, what does the conversation say about America's infatuation with celebrities and beauty?

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CABRERA: Ebola dominated the headlines this week along with a lot of other serious topics. But online there was another less serious conversation that you just couldn't escape. What was up with Renee Zellweger's face? Her new look. The consensus was that the actress perhaps had some plastic surgery. Well, not admitting it, she says she's happy with her look. But her critics, not so much. Mel and Sunny are joining us once again.

Mel, women in Hollywood, is this a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation?

ROBBINS: Definitely. But listen, I'm not - I don't think Sunny and I are necessarily her critics saying that she looks terrible. I think she just looks different. And she disappeared off the face of the earth for like five years.

Well, when my kid goes away to camp for the summer and I see her after four weeks, I'm like, did you grow a lot.

HOSTIN: You look different.

ROBBINS: But there's something going on here but one of the things that I also find interesting is there's a recent study that says a third of us feel like we look old when we turn 45. And I'm 46 and I have definitely started that old - I got my dad's jowly things going on. I'm more critical. She looks way better than I do.

CABRERA: Could it be age?

HOSTIN: Certainly, age but - because women of a certain vintage do -- like we are Mel. Certain vintage, fine wine. We certainly start to age. You start to look different and she clearly has had plastic surgery. Let's face it.

ROBBINS: Wow. She's throwing it down right now.

HOSTIN: She's had it. But have we all had it. I don't know if you've out yourself, I've tried Botox. I tried Juviderm.

ROBBINS: I do it every four months.

HOSTIN: Ana's not going to admit it because you're of a different vintage. But you probably -

ROBBINS: She's a lot younger.

HOSTIN: Have you tried anything.

CABRERA: I haven't tried anything. I'm being honest.

HOSTIN: But you will. And that's the bottom line.

ROBBINS: My daughters are like, (INAUDIBLE) a lot of trouble for. My daughters are like "mom, it's about time you do something about this."

HOSTIN: OK. Yes. And so I think as women we should be able to age however way we want to age. If we want to age gracefully without doing anything, more power to you. Me? Not so much. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going down without a fight. I'm going to do stuff.

ROBBINS: I am fighting.

HOSTIN: When the girls go down, I'm going to fix them. When these goes down, I'm going to fix them. And Renee fixed them, more power to her. Unfortunately, she does look really different. I thought I was looking at Robin Wright.

CABRERA: She looks very different.

ROBBINS: That's it. For me personally, I will do whatever it takes to hold on to whatever I can.

HOSTIN: Same here.

ROBBINS: But I want to look like myself and I don't think she does.

CABRERA: I think there's a whole other conversation which we don't have time to do right now.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: But that's the procedures to begin with.

HOSTIN: Ana, you're going to get stuff done.

You're in the TV business.

ROBBIN: And Sunny will take you right to your appointment.

CABRERA: You know what, ladies? We are out of time. Save by the bell.

Mel Robbins, Sunny Hostin, thank you both, so much for being here.

Coming up right after the break, we have our headlines here on CNN. Stay with us.

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CABRERA: "PARTS UNKNOWN" is about a minute away now. It begins with Anthony Bourdain in Vietnam.

But first, your headlines tonight. A quarantined nurse slamming New Jersey's Ebola policy saying her human rights are being violated. Kaci Hickox says here criticized. Kaci Hickox says her basic human rights are being violated. She criticized Governor Chris Christie for saying that she's obviously ill. She says she had tested negative for Ebola twice. Here are photos of the tent where she's being kept in a New Jersey hospital. Her lawyer tells CNN he will file for Hickox to get a court hearing no later than five days from the start of her confinement, which was Friday.

In suburban Seattle, a community meeting was held tonight at Marysville Pilchuck High School, the scene of yet another school shooting. A popular freshman student pulled out a handgun Friday and shot five classmates including two of his own cousins. One girl has died. Fryberg apparently shot himself as a teacher grabbed his arm to stop the bloodshed.

And in the fight against ISIS, coalition forces have hit the militants with 17 air strikes this weekend. Five of them in the besieged Syrian border city of Kobani. The rest taking place around Iraq's strategically important Mosul Dam.

That's it for me tonight. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being here. Up next, Anthony Bourdain visits one of his favorite places on earth, a country he has loved since his first visit in 2000. "VIETNAM: PARTS UNKNOWN" begins right now.