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At This Hour

Why Freyberg Opened Fire; Impact of Found Remains on Jesse Matthew Case; Bill De Blasio Talks Ebola, Quarantines

Aired October 27, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A community already in mourning has been slammed with yet another loss. 14-year-old girl Gia Soriano, wounded in the school shooting in Washington State, she has died. The death of Gia brings the death toll now in Friday's shooting to two. Three other students, 14 and 15-year-olds, remain hospitalized.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: People trying to figure out why freshman Jaylen Fryberg opened fire in the school cafeteria targeting, apparently, his two cousins. He seemed to be a popular kid. He was named the freshman class homecoming prince. So one question that may never get answered is, what happened.

Our Dan Simon joins us from Marysville in Washington.

Dan, what's the latest?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. No one really has an understanding of why Jaylen Fryberg did this. But the prevailing theory is -- and it's just a theory -- is that he was upset over a breakup with a girlfriend or that he may have been rejected by a girl. But it still doesn't explain what happened. He targeted his closest friends and he targeted his cousins. No one can understand why he would do that. We're also getting some information about what happened in those final moments, John. We understand that the gun used was .40 caliber Beretta handgun and at one point the gunman tried to reload the weapon but he was having trouble because his hands were shaking -- John?

PEREIRA: Remember what a young man he was himself. The whole thing is so terribly tragic. We're also hearing a little bit of this young teacher, Dan, a teacher who instead of running away like most people understandably were ran towards the attack. Tell us what happened here.

SIMON: Right, well, this teacher, Megan Silberger, she was in a nearby office and she ran into the cafeteria. Like you say, most people would stay away or run the other direction. But she sees students down and sees the shooter and confronts anymore some fashion. And what from what we understand from student witnesses she placed her hand on his arm and then moments later he turned the gun on himself. Obviously, her account would be -- would obviously be very compelling to hear but as you can understand right now Megan is not talking.

BERMAN: Dan, what's the status at school right now? When might they come back to school? What are they doing with those kids there now?

SIMON: The school is closed for the entire week. Yesterday, last night, there was a community meeting and hundreds of people attended. It was sort of the first step to bring this community together and begin the healing process but for from what we understand, school will open a week from today and it's not clear if they'll ever use that cafeteria again. The question has been asked, are the kids going to eat lunch there where you have the bloodshed and at this point the school hasn't decided what they're going do.

PEREIRA: That community is going to need our prayers, our support, sadly, like so many other communities that have been through this kind of thing.

Dan Simon, thanks so much for bringing that to us. We appreciate it.

@THISHOUR, perhaps a measure of closure for Hannah Graham's parents. Their daughter's remains have been identified. What this could mean for the case being built against suspect, Jesse Matthew.

BERMAN: Then, he quit his job, moved to Syria to fight ISIS. We're talking about an American veteran, and American veteran, by the way, right now, breaking the law. Our Ivan Watson went inside Syria to meet him.

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PEREIRA: Investigators are doing forensic testing on human remains found on an abandon property found near Charlottesville, Virginia. We found out last week that the remains are those of missing college student Hannah Graham.

BERMAN: She disappeared last month after she was seen on surveillance video leaving a bar followed by Jesse Matthew who is now suspected in her disappearance and death.

PEREIRA: We want to bring in Jack Levin. You've seen him on our show before. He's a professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston.

Good to have you here, sir. We appreciate it.

We want to talk to you about the importance of this surveillance video. In this case, would police have been led to Jesse Matthew if it weren't for the video?

JACK LEVIN, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND CRIMINOLOGY, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Probably not. You know, most serial killers are the cream of the crop. They can stay on the loose for long period of times. Keep in mind now that there have been five women who went missing over the last five years and they weren't connected by the authorities. Now possibly because of this suspect it may be one killer who's responsible for all five of these victims. Now, the surveillance camera, being caught by eyewitnesses, being caught on camera is a terrible mistake on the part of a serial killer. And this is usually how they're caught. They are a great challenge to law enforcement and -- but they make a mistake by which they are finally apprehended.

BERMAN: So what is law enforcement doing now? They have this body. They say they've tested it. They are the remains of Hannah Graham. They have this video. What business do they have to do?

LEVIN: I could be wrong but I do not believe that the body will yield very much very much evidence. It's not the killer's DNA that may turn it in. It may be the victims' DNA. And that may be found at the killer's residence, in his car. You see many serial killers do not leave a crime scene and that's where most of the physical evidence resides. The dump sites -- very smartly, the killer will carry the body sometimes hundreds of miles. In this case, it may have been 10 miles to a desolate area so that nobody even has the body until it's entirely decomposed and lacking in evidence and lucky if they can identify victim let alone the killer. But the killer may very well have jewelry or a -- Jeffrey Dahmer had body parts. But most serial killers would have jewelry or underwear, clothing of the victims in order to reminisce about the good times, and that evidence is critical and it's found the house or the car of the killer and that's probably where they're looking.

PEREIRA: It's interesting because I was going to turn you quickly to the situation in Lake County, Indiana. We've been watching the story of this alleged serial killer. And the coroner there is asking people to help identify victims to their jewelry and clothing. Is that an unusual step for the coroner specifically to take?

LEVIN: It is unusual. You know, I think we've learned a tremendous amount over the last 20 years about how serial killers operate and I started studying serial murder 30 years ago. And at that time, it had reached its peak but we didn't know very much about it. There are far fewer serial killers in society now than there were 20 years ago or 30 years ago, and part of the reason is that we understand their modus operandi. We have DNA. We have other technological means of getting them like surveillance cameras. And as a result, I think we're apprehending them before they can amass a large body count, and that may be what's happening in Indiana.

PEREIRA: Jack Levin, we appreciate your expertise. Thanks so much.

BERMAN: Coming up for us, an American in the middle of the battle against ISIS. An American veteran breaking the law to go inside Syria to fight ISIS. Our reporter crossed the boarder to get his amazing story.

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PEREIRA: Breaking news. There's a press conference going on @THISHOUR here in New York City. Mayor Bill de Blasio has been vocally opposed to the quarantining of medical professionals returning from West Africa. In fact, we'll let you listen to it. We'll play it for you from the top as it happened.

BILL DE BLASIO, (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Let's put this in context. We've got to stop making this more than it is. This -- disease -- and this is crucial -- there are other diseases, very dangerous diseases that are easily contracted. By the way, the isolation ward at Bellevue was created to address the AIDS crisis and created to address a tuberculosis outbreak related to the AIDS crisis and that was a disease that was air born and dangerous for that reason. This is not an air-borne disease. This is a disease that can only be passed by intimate contact with bodily fluids, which is why you have not seen it grow in any meaningful way here.

Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Mayor, can we get an update on the child's mother? Is she with him?

DE BLASIO: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will she be subject to any type of quarantine?

And I also think this raises the question of people that are coming back from these countries that aren't medical professionals but have had some sort of contact with people with this virus. Is there any question about quarantining these people? And how would you conduct something --

(CROSSTALK)

DE BLASIO: Well, Courtney, that's what the new state rules do, so let's go over this. A couple of different pieces. The mother is with the child being treated in a similar manner as a precaution. No symptoms. But by definition, we want her with the child because we want the child to have the support of his mother. We'll have more to say at the end of the afternoon.

In terms of what's happening now, the CDC mandated that starting today there would be monitoring of anyone who returned, whose information was gathered by the screening process put in place at the airports roughly two weeks ago. We've been provided by with most of those names, not all, but we're continuing to get additional names. The city of New York is monitoring each and every one of those returnees, and these are people who reported no contact with the disease or anyone with the disease, but CDC rules, which we respect, mandate local health authorities to monitor. We're in daily touch with these individuals as we make contact with them and we will be for a 21-day period. Meaning, someone arrives today, had no contact with anyone with Ebola but they arrived from one of those three countries, we'll stay in touch with them daily for 21 days. If someone arrived within 10 days ago, we'll stay in touch with them for the next 11 days. Once you pass 21 days, if there's no symptoms, that's the considered the end of the sequence.

The new quarantine rules created by the state, details still being determined. The two health commissioners, in terms of New York City, Mary Basset will work with Howard Zucker, her state counterpart, to work out how to implement the details in the city with flights coming into JFK. The broad strokes are this. Anyone who did not come in contact with an individual with Ebola either as an individual citizen or as a medical professional, they go home as normal but they're subject to the monitoring CDC has mandated. And, again, we will perform that. City of New York will perform that monitoring. But when someone has been in contact with someone with Ebola, of course, the first thing that will happen is they will be checked for any immediate symptoms. If there are immediate symptoms they will be taken immediately to the emergency room. If there are no symptoms, the state is implementing a quarantine at home as the governor described last night.

But that is a quarantine in which there will be monitoring twice a day by health professionals, but it's a quarantine that allows family members and friends to visit with the returning health care. It's meant to make clear that we have the ability to contact the person and keep in touch with their health care daily. But we're respecting the fact that these are heroes who are fighting for us against this disease and need an opportunity to have a proper re-entry to this country. That's the balance being struck here. Again, the City of New York will provide the monitoring for those individuals.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just to clarify, this pertains to health care people who are health care workers as well as regular citizens who went to a wedding?

DE BLASIO: So separating the two. I'm glad you asked the question. An individual citizen or a health care worker who says I have been in contact with someone with Ebola while in one of the three countries is immediately checked for symptoms. If there are symptoms, immediately taken to care. If there are not symptoms, home for quarantine. If they're not going to home, we'll find an alternative facility that's appropriate. But if someone has not been in direct contact, they go about their lives. But we, the city of New York, will monitor them daily.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Going back to the five-year-old, what was -- thank you. What led somebody to make a 911 call to get an ambulance there in the first place, and were there symptoms involved? Was the boy showing some sort of symptoms initially?

DE BLASIO: Again, we have to respect the privacy of all patients. I'm going to speak in very broad strokes. The child was having some difficulties but it's not clear they were the kinds of symptoms that would be related to Ebola. Again, this is the abundance of caution dynamic. Very recently returned family, the child was showing some signs of an illness, not clear what the illness was. We did the cautious thing and brought the child in under the full protocol. We'll know at the end of the day. It may turn out we have something here or it may turn out that the child was sick with something totally different. And obviously, the child will continue to receive care for that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's going on in the Bronx, in determine of decontamination. And what is this costing the city on the superficial monitoring now mandated by the CDC?

DE BLASIO: On the first -- you mean, when you say the Bronx, you mean this case? Again, we don't have evidence that we have a case of Ebola so it would not be appropriate to do any further decontamination until you know that. What we're doing is taking care of the child and mother, may be a total different health care challenge. Either way, the folks at Bellevue are going to address the mother and the child's needs. We're already retracing the steps so we'll have that ready. And then upon determining if there's something more, we'll act. That's something we should know in the course of this afternoon.

What was your second question?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The cost of the city for all of the additional monitoring.

DE BLASIO: Right. Look, in a crisis, obviously, we're focused on doing what we have to do to keep our people safe. Cost is something we don't worry about when it comes to keeping our people safe. This is a priority of this government now to address this crisis. Most of what we're doing in monitoring, we can do with our existing Department of Health staff. They can be augmented with our Office of Emergency Management staff. We've gotten a lot of cooperation not only from our --

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BERMAN: That's Mayor Bill de Blasio. He, of course, has been critical of the more extreme quarantine policies that were put in place last Friday. Since then, they've been relaxed. Saying that the workers, who come back from Africa, can self quarantine in their own homes.

Look, Bill de Blasio has ridden the subway. He's eaten at the meatball shop where Dr. Spencer was. He's been out there saying that we should not be scared of the wrong things here.

PEREIRA: Yes, another thing to point out, he mentioned that the mother of the young child, as you would expect is with that little one. A five-year-old shouldn't be on their own in the hospital. So obviously, that parent obviously being monitored as well. They did test the child earlier today. They expect the results of that later on today. Again, we'll be following that. Just watching our local officials and state officials reacting to the quarantine news and the discussions.

BERMAN: Not always with the same message.

PEREIRA: No, certainly not.

We're going the take a short break.

BERMAN: Be right back.

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BERMAN: National state and city leaders now all dealing with the politics of Ebola. So how are they doing?

Let's discuss.

Our commentators, Margaret Hoover and Sally Kohn are here. Margaret, we've come a long way since last week. First, there was no quarantine. Then Friday night there was a full quarantine, then there was a well, you can go home quarantine. And Chris Christie is letting the woman out of the tent. Is there a consistent credible message here?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the regulations on behalf of the state of New Jersey have been consistent. They have always said if you come from one of these three countries and you were treating Ebola patients and you came in contact with Ebola and show signs of a fever or some kind of disease when you land, then you have to go to quarantine. That's what happened with this woman. She had a fever when she landed. She may think she had a fever for other reasons. If you had a fever and you were treating Ebola patients in one of those three countries, the rule is consistent. You need to be quarantined. I think that's a matter of public safety, not politics.

(CROSSTALK)

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's not what he said. The quarantine goes far beyond that. That's why it's being pulled back because it's unpopular and ill advised. There are no public health officials who I could find that say that this is a good idea. The problem is you're putting, quote, unquote, "good politics" ahead of good public health response. We need to do what's right, not just what's going to win an election in a few weeks or in 2016.

PEREIRA: Should this be a political conversation at all.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: This is grandstanding.

This is America. Unfortunately, it is. And you have politicians using it to make a point. There are Republicans out there. Rand Paul leading the charge, saying we can't trust the science on Ebola and we should be scared about how it is transmitted.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Just to be clear, do you think it is not wise policy to quarantine somebody shows signs of Ebola coming from an Ebola-stricken country.

KOHN: Signs and symptoms, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: The quarantine policy as it's been spread is far broader than anyone showing symptoms and it suggests we should be afraid of asymptomatic people that went there. Not to mention the fact that discourages people --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: This is the debate happening right now. And it will continue.

PEREIRA: Yes, it certainly will.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

(LAUGHTER)