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Ebola Quarantine Controversy; Washington School Shooting Investigation Continues

Aired October 27, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here on this Monday.

The new rules for health workers returning from West Africa pitting science against public policy, safety, the governors of New York and New Jersey responding to backlash on their Ebola policies with reports that the White House has urged them to reverse those policies just days after ordering mandatory quarantines.

Case in point, Kaci Hickox, the nurse who was held in quarantine after returning from West Africa, is now on her way home to Maine. And she talked exclusively to us here at CNN about what she went through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE: The first thing I would say to Governor Christie is that I wish he would be more careful about his statements related to my medical question. I am not, as he said -- quote, unquote -- "obviously ill."

I am completely healthy and with no symptoms. And if he knew anything about Ebola, he would know that asymptomatic people are not infectious. I understand that people feel like they have a risk, and I think we can have a conversation about what further measures might look like.

But I think this is an extreme that is really unacceptable, and I feel like my basic human rights have been violated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As for New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, he says he was just looking out for the public. Meanwhile, the family of a 5-year- old boy in New York is waiting to find out whether he has Ebola. He has been tested. Officials are also trying to find out whether the child who recently returned with his family from Guinea there in West Africa came into contact with anyone who has Ebola.

And we cannot forget Ebola has claimed 4,900 lives in West Africa and federal health officials insist the best way combat the virus is to send more health workers to that region.

Let me bring in Dr. Phuoc Le. He's assistant professor at U.C. San Francisco and U.C. Berkeley as well.

Dr. Le, welcome. Nice to have you on.

DR. PHUOC LE, UCSF SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I want to speak with you of course with your M.D. hat on in just a moment. But first I know you're shortly on your way and we are grateful you are headed that way to West Africa, but you have little kiddies at home and I'm just curious how are you wife reacted when you said, honey, I'm going to West Africa.

LE: Well, it wasn't a spur of the moment decision by any means. My wife has stuck with me for the past 11 years with trips to Haiti and Rwanda and Malawi.

And even she was OK with me going to treat cholera in 2010 in Haiti. This is of course very different because we understand Ebola is an extremely deadly disease. But she also understands that this is what I'm trained to do.

I am a physician with public health background and training in infectious disease and tropical medicine. I have had training at the CDC. I have done everything I can to reduce my risk of contracting Ebola myself. And despite the fact that she still is very worried and, in fact, just a couple of days ago was tearing up to me and saying that, you know, it's hard, but she's keeping strong for the sake of our daughter. But also she really believes in the mission that I'm trying to carry out.

BALDWIN: I'm sure -- is there a teeny worry just from your own self?

LE: It's not teeny at all. My family is the most precious thing to me and I have a two-and-a-half-year-old at home.

I hope in the future she will forget I was gone for two months and that she will forgive me for not being there for two months of her life. But I think she will.

BALDWIN: I think she will, especially when she realizes how you can help so many different people. So on that -- and by the way we should be getting news. According to the White House, the CDC will be updating protocols for folks such as yourself when you return home to the States from West Africa so those guidelines could be changing.

But once you do come home, given what you know what's happened with this nurse that we now know will be heading home to self-quarantine in her home in Maine, how do you want to be treated? How do you think -- do you think you should stay home for 21 days and not work for fear of potentially infecting anyone if you are asymptomatic? What do you think?

LE: Well, I think I, as a health care professional and public health expert, I understand the risks and the risks are that there is almost no chance of me infecting anybody unless I had symptoms.

But I also understand this idea of an abundance of caution. The abundance of caution can be misinterpreted and could be -- it could lead to very grave consequences. Just yesterday my wife told me that a very dear and close family member in Ohio of ours who is elderly and has a heart condition that requires her to have blood clotting or blood thinning medications every day, well, she is considering not going to get her blood checked because of fear of Ebola.

That fear clearly is unfounded, but that fear is real out there, and I think when it hits home to people like myself, I cannot blame our leadership for taking extreme measures in this case.

BALDWIN: So, if you were to have to stay put, Doc, for 21 days at home, if somebody, you know, way higher above you and I says you need to, you're telling me you will?

LE: I would do so for the sake of the masses, the sake of the public and their reassurance.

But I also want to point out that, you know, I would stay home, but I have to feed my family somehow. And so I would urge hospitals and employers and even the government to step in and say hey, look, you have gone out, you have done the work, now you're back, let's treat you with some dignity and, of course, let's provide for your family during those 21 days when you can't work.

I'm not allowed to work. So, for example at U.C. San Francisco, where I'm a physician, there's a policy that employees who are not going to go to West Africa can actually donate vacation days...

BALDWIN: How about that?

LE: ... that money could -- yes, that money could come to support the salary that I would lose. And so far 500 hours have been donated, which is a tremendous amount of generosity of my colleagues and friends at UCSF.

BALDWIN: That's awesome. UCSF, shout out to them. Dr. Phuoc, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time and taking the risk to help so many people who are so in need. Best of luck to you. Thank you so much for coming on today. We will check up with you if we possibly can in the future.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Today, the White House, as I mentioned a moment ago, is responding to the decision to release that nurse Hickox from confinement. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We want to make sure that whatever policies are put in place in this country to protect the American public do not serve as a disincentive to doctors and nurses from this country volunteering to travel to West Africa to treat Ebola patients.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As I mentioned, the White House also saying today the CDC will announce these new guidelines on Ebola response in about half-an- hour from now.

Let's go the White House to our CNN senior correspondent there, Jim Acosta.

Do we know anything with what they may announce, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what we will have to wait and find out to hear, Border Patrol

We do expect the CDC director Tom Frieden to have a conference call starting at 3:30 this afternoon. The White House said earlier today at that briefing, a clip of it you just played there, that the CDC is expected to announce these guidelines that they want to put out to the states as to what to do with these health care workers, how to treat these health care workers once they return from West Africa.

Brooke, I think what we will end up with is sort of a hodgepodge system where different states will have different Ebola quarantine policies and we saw a sneak preview of that over the weekend when New York and New Jersey stepped out on their own to issue this mandatory quarantine policy that resulted in the confinement of Kaci Hickox in that tent, in that hospital in New Jersey which caused a lot of controversy.

She said it violated her rights. And I asked Josh Earnest during the briefing whether or not the Obama administration got a heads-up from New York and New Jersey that they were even doing this and this is what Josh Earnest had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Was it a surprise to this administration when New York and New Jersey came out with their policies on these quarantines? Is that a yes or a no in terms of whether or not the administration was told in advance?

EARNEST: What I'm telling you, Jim, is that I'm not in a position to detail all of the phone calls, but administration officials and a variety of agencies, including HHS, CDC and the White House, have been in regular touch with state and local officials in New York and New Jersey, elsewhere, as they deal with this Ebola situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: No clear answer there from the White House as to whether or not they got a heads-up from New York or New Jersey that they were even doing this.

We from knowing from talking to Governor Christie's office the governor never talked to the president over the weekend about this, and the White House wouldn't really acknowledge whether or not that had occurred. And so really a lot of questions being raised. And there's the case of Kaci Hickox.

We asked Josh Earnest during that briefing, Brooke, whether or not the White House agrees with her confinement in a tent, whether or not it violated her rights. The White House really did not offer an opinion on that. Josh Earnest only said that her service should be respected and that putting her in a tent does not do that -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will stand by if, in fact, they will be announcing this hodgepodge policy or not. Jim Acosta, we will be looking for that reporting at the White House in just a little bit.

At the same time all of this happening here today, the family of this 5-year-old child is anxiously waiting to see if their little boy will be the next Ebola patient here in the United States. We're live for you this afternoon at Bellevue Hospital, where doctors are treating the boy and hoping this will be a false alarm, that this is not the fifth case of Ebola we have seen here in the U.S.

We're learning today about the heroic actions of a young teacher in Washington State. What she did when she heard those gun shots ring out in that cafeteria that could have saved students in Marysville in Washington State just this past Friday -- her story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

At this very moment, there's a family of 5-year-old boy here in New York City who is waiting to see if he will become the fifth diagnosed case of Ebola in the United States. That boy did recently spend a little bit of time in Guinea, one of the three nations in West Africa considered part of the hot zone for this fatal disease.

CNN's Poppy Harlow is outside of Bellevue Hospital, where this 5-year- old is getting care.

Poppy, we know he was tested. Do we have any idea when those test results should be back?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Brooke.

We will know at some point tonight. It's just unclear when, because this test can take up to 12 hours and we don't really know exactly when it was administered. But let me give you the timeline here. What you're looking at is video from Sunday night that we believe is the ambulance bringing this little 5-year-old boy and his mother here to Bellevue Hospital.

The reason he was transported here is because he got a very high fever on Sunday. Saturday night, he and his family landed at JFK Airport after spending a month in Guinea, as you mentioned, part of that hot zone in West Africa for the Ebola virus. Out of an abundance of caution, they brought him here because a high temperature is one of the symptoms that can come with Ebola.

His most recent temperature reading is at 102 degrees. That's very, very high. But it is still unclear to all the doctors and authorities here whether or not this is a case of Ebola. They have to wait for those initial test results. I want you to listen to Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City who

spoke about this boy and what New York City is doing at this point. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: The child was having some difficulties, but it's not clear they were the kinds of symptoms that would be related to Ebola.

So, again, this is the abundance of caution dynamic. Very recently, a returned family, the child was showing some signs of an illness. Not clear what the illness was. We did the cautious thing and brought the child in under the full protocol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also, Brooke, what they have done since Sunday night, since the child came here to Bellevue, is officials in New York City have been tracking the movement of both the child and his mother, his family, all those who returned with him from Guinea on Saturday night.

Mayor de Blasio saying earlier today it's pretty easy for them to do that, since they have only really been back here in the United States less than 48 hours. But as you know with the case of the doctor who is being treated here, he was here for 10 days before that Ebola test came back positive. They are doing the safe thing. They are taking steps in advance to try to trace whoever else this child may have come in contact with just in case the test comes back positive. Let's certainly hope it does not. We will know some time of course tonight and we will you that of course bring live on CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We will be waiting for it. Hopefully, it's a negative. Poppy Harlow, thank you very much for us at Bellevue Hospital here in New York City.

Coming up, politics creeping into the fight against Ebola. Could the cases in the U.S. actually impact the upcoming midterm elections? We will take a close look at that.

Plus, we're learning new details of about this heroic teacher who acted when shots rang out at a Washington State high school. What she did that could have saved a lot of students -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A Washington state school teacher is being hailed a hero today because of the bravery she exhibited during last Friday's deadly school shooting. There may have been more young victims but for the bold actions of this young teacher, Megan Silberberger.

Witnesses say she ran towards the gunman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ERICK CERVANTES, STUDENT: She like grabbed his arm, and got a hand on him. It happened like in seconds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN correspondent Dan Simon is live for us in Marysville in Washington State with more on her bravery.

Dan, what can you tell us?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Brooke. We will talk about her in a minute.

But, first, I just want to show you this extraordinary scene here in front of the school. Look at these expressions of goodwill. I would say about 100 yards, this fence has just been turned into a makeshift memorial with so many people dropping off flowers and balloons. It's really been growing by the minute, but a lot of goodwill bestowed upon this teacher today, Megan Silberberger. You mentioned her name.

She was in a room near the cafeteria, heard the gunshots and then ran towards the gunfire. She saw some students who were down and then she actually confronted the gunman in some fashion. She actually put her hand on his arm and then moments later, of course, the gunman took his own life.

We don't know if her actions may have changed the outcome in any way, but certainly very brave action indeed, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Dan Simon, thank you so much in Marysville, Washington State. I appreciate it.

Public health officials, they are not the only ones having a hard time with the response to Ebola. Politicians are ordering quarantines and then maybe walking that back, while critics say the president's Ebola czar has been MIA. We will talk to our political panel about that coming up.

And an American fighting against ISIS knows what the Kurds are up against, waging war with no armor and wearing sneakers, what he calls combat Adidas -- that story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, took a hard line Friday when his state officials put nurse Kaci Hickox under quarantine. She had just treated Ebola victims in Sierra Leone, and Governor Christie said he needed to protect public health.

So, did the governor walk it back when Hickox was discharged today? Depends on who you ask. Some say absolutely. But when you ask the governor, this is how he explained it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I'm glad that she's getting to go back home, and hopefully her health will remain being good. And if it is, it's good for her, her family and everybody else. But we're not going to take any risks with the public health of New Jersey.

QUESTION: Why did you reverse your decision and release her?

CHRISTIE: I didn't reverse any decision. Why are you saying I reversed the decision?

QUESTION: Because now she gets to go home.

(CROSSTALK)

CHRISTIE: But she's always go to -- if she was continuing to be ill, she would have to stay. She don't had any symptoms for 24 hours. And she tested negative for Ebola. So, there's no reason to keep her. The reason she was put in the hospital in the first place was because she was running a high fever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here's what this nurse would say, that she never had a high fever, that a thermometer misread her temperature.

So let's talk about this.

Let me turn now to Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.

Welcome to both of you.

S.E., let's stay with your party here and begin with Governor Christie. Listen, it's no secret. His name has been thrown out there for 2016 when it comes to president. So, knowing that, looking at it through that political lens -- and I know so much of this is about public safety, as it should be, but come on. So much of this is politics.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure I agree.

I mean, whether it's Governor Christie or Governor Cuomo, governors around the country have been watching systematic failures both at the local level and the federal level when it comes to controlling and containing this outbreak.

And so they have had to take matters into their own hands. Even Governor Cuomo said they haven't gotten protocols yet from the CDC. I think Governor Christie while he may not be a doctor, as Kaci Hickox says, he's the governor of nine million people and he has to do what's best for them.

A woman office who was treating Ebola patients came through his airport running a fever. It was his decision to quarantine her for 24 hours and then make the call and I think the residents of New Jersey probably appreciated that he did that.

BALDWIN: Chris, how do you read it? CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, clearly, it's political.

You have been seeing the Republicans I think using this multiple times, attacking Democrats about the Ebola response. It's kind of crazy. Of all the things you are going to attack people on, you would think this wouldn't be one of them, but nonetheless.

Now, did Governor Christie do this for political reasons? I mean, yes and no. My guess is, you give him the benefit of doubt, to some extent, that he's clearly worried about the people of New Jersey.