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CDC Revises Guidelines For Health Care Workers Returning From Africa; Kurdish Fighters Leave Northern Iraq To Join Battle For Kobani; Red-Hot Lava In Hawaii Creeps Dangerously Close To Homes; Two Elementary Children Become Victims Of Bullying Over Ebola Fears

Aired October 28, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's stay in touch. We'd love to have you back to see what happens in a matter of weeks with fingers and everything crossed, Dr. Jeffrey Drazen, editor in-chief of the New England journal of Medicine. Yes, keeping them crossed right here. Thank you so much, sir, from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Truly appreciate you joining me.

I do want to stay on Ebola. What is the protocol for health care workers returning from Africa, right? It depends on actually what state you're in.

And the CDC, of course, has its own guidelines. They revised those just yesterday. Why isn't there one standard? I know a lot of you are wondering that. So we'll get the answer.

And another big story we're following for you. People in Kobani, that border town, right, that Syrian-Turkish border town have been pleading for help against ISIS. The U.S. has tried to help them from the sky. And now new forces could help them from the ground. We're live in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The president himself was asked about that. And one question he took at the top of the hour about mixed messages, about confusion when it comes to the Ebola guidelines and protocol. For example, CDC says asymptomatic workers back from the Ebola hot zones should not be quarantined, but intensely monitored. Then you have the Pentagon putting a dozen troops and putting their commanding officer in quarantine in Italy. They were just in West Africa. And several states have no rules. They quarantined a person sick or not who has had contact with an Ebola patient.

There is some confusing guidance among aid groups. Members of Doctors Without Borders, for example, they are adamantly against putting returning, healthy Ebola care givers into quarantine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOPHIE DELAUNAY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MSF / MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES: So quarantine of a healthy aid worker who presents no symptom is not -- does not present a danger to the society. And the second concern, of course, is that because it creates the perception that the person is a threat, a danger to the community, it contributes to stigmatization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The group's protocol says, and I quote, "return staff members are discouraged from returning from work during the 21-day period. Fields assignments are extremely challenging and people need to regain energy." Plus, the fear is they're more vulnerable to other infections that could mimic Ebola.

With me now, Bruce Turkel, an expert in marketing and branding and Dr. Robert Murphy is back with me, a professor of infectious diseases and director for center of global health in Northwestern University.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

And Dr. Murphy, back to you. And we have alluded to this a moment ago before the president spoke. So now let's just loop back to it. Can you just explain to the American people why so much confusion and if there is a solution?

DR. ROBERT MURPHY, CENTER FOR GLOBAL HEALTH, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Well, there's confusion because you have leaders of different states telling you different things compared to what the president just spoke about. The president's speech, I thought, was really good talking about going to the source, controlling the epidemic. We're starting to see the signs of progress. That's all terrific. CDC, revising their guidelines.

If you land in Newark, New Jersey, you're going to get escorted by police cars to a tent outside the hospital. There's something wrong with this picture. If you land in Chicago, that will not happen. We have a very different guideline here that's much more sensible. So what I think the president needs to go the next step and basically take over all the infection control for Ebola.

BALDWIN: What are the reasons why, perhaps, he's hesitant in doing such?

MURPHY: That's not the way public health is set up in the United States. It is public health is driven by the states. The CDC acts as a reference and a giver of guidelines. And they're very good. But they actually don't have the authority. The governor has incredible power to do whatever he wants to protect his state. That's states rights.

But this is a lethal disease. It has all these consequences discussed already, including just now. We have to get over that. And I think the president probably can get the authority to do that, and he should. Because there's no -- if you fly from Europe, one of these volunteers comes and lands in Chicago versus New Jersey, there's a huge difference. And nobody is at risk.

BALDWIN: And I think --

MURPHY: So why treat the volunteers like that? BALDWIN: Right. And I think the patchwork policy as I've read it,

you know, referred to confuses the American public. And so, Bruce to you, with your business cap on and the optics of all of this, I mean, if you were advising, like you would be advising multiple companies say all working together but in this case, you have multiple states, different jurisdictions, federal, local, et cetera, that are not seemingly on the same page. How would you advise?

BRUCE TURKEL, EXECUTIVE CREATIVE DIRECTOR, TURKEL BRANDS: You just said the perfect word, not seemingly on the same page. As a country, we are crying out for consistent clear information that we can understand, and we can respond to. The problem is that Medical issues are dealt with with facts. It's science. But that's not how we make our decisions. We make our decisions based on emotional response.

And so, what we need is a clear, powerful, emotional message that tells us what we need to be afraid of. What we don't need to be afraid of. And then we back it up with the RTBS, the Reasons to Believe, the facts that prove to us that what we're hearing is the truth.

BALDWIN: OK. Just quickly buttoning this up with you, Dr. Murphy. I mean, isn't it true in a case of a pandemic or epidemic, this is not in the United States; that is when the direct federal mandate would come down. But thus far, it really is up to the states to figure this out.

MURPHY: That's the way it looks. The president is trying to just convince the states to behave and follow the scientific rationale that he has outlined and the CDC has outlined. That remains to be seen. As of today, that's not happening.

MURPHY: Dr. Robert Murphy. Thank you so much. Bruce Turkel, thank you, appreciate you both here.

Coming up next, a new group could be sent in to help save the sea of Kobani from ISIS militants. We will tell you about this new group of fighters now entering the border of town and how it could impact that battle.

Plus, you have to see these pictures out of Hawaii, lava creeping precariously closely to homes in Hawaii on the right side. Live pictures of the lava, the smoke from the air. We will take you there and show you exactly how dangerous this situation is getting for people who live here who may have to leave.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Got a major piece of news for you now in the war against this terror group ISIS. This contingent of Kurdish fighters has left northern Iraq with the aim of joining the battle for the Syrian city of Kobani. They will be battling ISIS which has failed to capture Kobani after five weeks of fighting. This claimed the lives of several hundred is terrorists.

And our senior international correspondent Ivan Watson joins me now from the Iraqi city of Erbil where those fighters have left.

So Ivan, when will they get there? Do we know?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they say tomorrow, but the fact is, this deal was announced more than a week ago and it's taken more than a week of negotiations and some open disagreements before this relatively small contingent of Iraqi Kurds departed. It's just 161 Iraqi Kurdish fighters that Turkey has said will be allowed to transit through Turkey to help reinforce the Kurdish fighters in that Syrian border town of Kobani. The Syrian Kurds have said they don't need men. They need weapons. And that's part of the deal. Iraqi Kurds are supposed to be bringing heavy weapons as part of this convoy to help their Kurdish brothers battle the jihadi militants in that border town.

BALDWIN: We have been watching so closely the status of this town, this symbolic significance of this battle.

Ivan Watson, thank you so much for me from Iraq.

I want you to look at this now. Video of red hot lava in Hawaii creeping dangerously close to a number of homes there. Live picture obviously on the right side, obviously from the skies looking down and some of the smoke. We will talk to correspondent Martin Savidge. He is live in a helicopter above all of this. We'll check in with him next.

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BALDWIN: Now is CNN's Martin Savidge. He is flying. Here he is flying high above the scene in the helicopter.

Martin, tell me what you see.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we got a pretty remarkable scene for you to look at here live. We are probably about 25 feet above here looking down at the lava flow. This is what they call a breakout. You can see it flow.

Keeping in mind, most of this lava is actually moving on the ground in the direction of (INAUDIBLE) here. What we're going to do is follow this river and that's what it looks like. Look how gray it is. You can feel the heat that is rising. The smoke, very much like you see it in wildfire. But see how it's transforming the landscape here, Brooke. You can see the ugly scar it makes. And again, most of this lava moving on the ground burning through the vegetation. Some areas and states, couple of hundred feet wide and others between this 25, 30 feet, we're heading to the northeast directly in the direction of (INAUDIBLE).

We are going to show you (INAUDIBLE) edge of the lava flow. This is why today is going to be a critical day. It is literally within feet of the first home. And after that, it goes right into town. This is a natural disaster that's slow. Not like a hurricane or like a tornado, but it's just as devastating -- Brooke. BALDWIN: Trying to hang on your every word here and watching. I

mean, the pictures really tell the story. And those precisely what I was thinking. It's like you see a lot of these natural disasters and it happens so quickly, wiping out people's homes. And this is just painstakingly slow.

Martin Savidge for me in the sky, again, above (INAUDIBLE) village in the main island of Hawaii.

Martin, thank you so much.

Kids in school obviously can be pretty cruel, bullying classmates for just about any reason. But for now, because of Ebola, one family's story will infuriate you. Guarantee you. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Two brothers, elementary school students, became the victims of bullying because of the fear over Ebola. The boys' father tells our New York affiliate News 12 and his two sons here, who are U.S. citizens, were beaten by nearly a dozen students at their school in the Bronx and the word Ebola was shouted at them.

The case is under investigation by the New York City schools and the department of education which confirmed the incident. The city's school chancellor released this statement. Let me read that for you.

We will not tolerate intimidation or bullying of our students especially in this moment when New Yorkers need to come together. We are investigating this incident and take this very, very seriously.

So joining me are these two boys, Amadu and Pape. And they speak French. And forgive me because I do not. So we won't be able to communicate with them but they are good enough to sit here and hang with me. Charles Cooper with the African advisory council who will speak on their behalves and also dad here, Ousmane Drame.

So thank you for taking the time. I really, really appreciate it.

And Mr. Drame, if we can just begin with they've only been over here a couple weeks?

OUSMANE DRAME, FATHER OF TWO BOYS BEATEN: Yes. Three weeks.

BALDWIN: From Senegal?

DRAME: FROM Senegal, yes.

BALDWIN: And went to school.

DRAME: Yes.

BALDWIN: What happened?

DRAME: Yes, what happened is as soon as I take them to school in the first three days, they were made fun of by the children and started yelling Ebola, Ebola, Ebola. These students got to them. (INAUDIBLE) Africa, Africa, Ebola, Ebola.

BALDWIN: They're not calling them by their names. They calling them Africa or Ebola.

DRAME: Yes. None of these classmates can pronounce their names. It's easier to say Ebola. Ebola is not the name of my children.

BALDWIN: You have to be kidding me.

DRAME: Yes.

BALDWIN: It's infuriating.

CHARLES COOPER, AFRICAN ADVISORY COUNCIL: Yes, of course. And, you know, and it ensued and, you know, it went from name calling to, you know, full-fledged assault on these two kids.

BALDWIN: What exactly -- so big brother here, Pape, heard about was it his little brother who initially was being called names?

COOPER: Yes.

DRAME: He said papa, someone is crazy. He went to the gym to play. They said, you don't have -- we will not play with you. You have Ebola. You sit down. You just sit down and they play and go to class. But they don't want to play with them. They go to school, 11:0.00. Nobody is close to them. What I don't like is beating.

BALDWIN: The beating.

DRAME: That's what I don't like. You don't have to beat anyone.

BALDWIN: No, of course not. Of course not.

DRAME: It's universal law. Beating someone is something else.

COOPER: And incident happened during lunch in which they just playing around. Suddenly, you know, he was jumped by several kids that called him Ebola. He screamed. His brother, his big brother, came to his rescue, and was jumped on also and the father came to pick them up that day. It's unfortunate this day in age that it's happening. But I was telling the father that, you know, I'm very proud of him that he brought this to the media attention and came to the African advisory council to alert us. And what we're seeing is that because of them, more and more folks are coming out and saying this is happening to my kids.

BALDWIN: I read about the story this morning. I said to my producer, send me to Staten Island tomorrow night. I want to brief right with a lot of people in the Liberian community to try to say, hey, you know, let's talk about the stigma and what we -- how I can help and how other members of the media can help to stigmatize this. If I can just in my final remaining moments, could you ask your boys in French, do they want to keep going back to school? Because I had read this morning they said to you, dad, I want to go back to Africa.

DRAME: Yes, they want to go. I talked to them.

BALDWIN: They want to keep going to school?

DRAME: They want to go school. I talked to (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: How are they doing?

DRAME: They are OK. You see we are Senegalese, you know. We, the long time, it is calling us is just we know the French. We know the Europeans. Senegal, you notice, it's a big nation, I tell you. We have an organization here in New York (INAUDIBLE). You buy the building in (INAUDIBLE) of $500,000. All we're doing here is to protect our own people, protect the Africa people, you know. We are here for everyone, every people in our (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Final thought.

COOPER: And at the end of the day, listen, no matter whether you're black, brown, yellow or green, we all want our kids to be safe. We all want our kids to go to school and learn and not feel threatened or bullied. This is what it's about. So we are full-fledged outreach to the community. We're trying to educate folks on Ebola and bullying.

BALDWIN: It's all about educating. I wish I could communicate to them and let them know how awesome I think they are.

COOPER: I think they know it.

DRAME: I'm telling you, there is a solution. (INAUDIBLE). You can fix about things. You can fix the same thing in Ebola.

BALDWIN: It's ignorance, bottom line. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate it. We have to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I got about 60 seconds left to go. And you see all the green there on your screen. We have to talk about the number hitting 17,000 here just a moment ago, up 180 points here before that closing market bell rings.

Paul La Monica, CNN MONEY, joining me now to talk about this. That's pretty big.

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN MONEY: It's phenomenal considering how bad this month started. We've gained back everything that we've lost. It really is. It's stunning. And it's, I think, that people realize that earnings corporate America is pretty healthy despite all the worries out there.

BALDWIN: What specifically would you pinpoint today for this?

LA MONICA: Not really sure what's going on today specifically. We have facebook results coming up shortly after the closing bell, a lot of optimism about that. But the winners of the past couple weeks are still doing really well. Apple is one in particular. But there's really no major news event to explain why we've had this sudden pop.

BALDWIN: OK. Make sure you go to the best source for all money news and the latest numbers, of course, on Wall Street, CNNMoney.com.

Paul La Monica, thank you so much.

LA MONICA: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I really appreciate it.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me. I will be back here the same time tomorrow, 2:00 eastern.

In the meantime, to Washington we go. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.