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Dr. Drew

Jodi Arias Sex Tape Played in Court; Honey Boo Boo`s Mother Reportedly in a Relationship with Convicted Child Molester

Aired October 28, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight the sex tapes. For the first time, the jurors hear Travis Alexander talking to Jodi Arias.

TRAVIS ALEXANDER: We`ve had two or three hour sessions any time.

JODI ARIAS: Yes, yes. More than that even.

ALEXANDER: It`s, it`s, I think three and a half is like our tops or something.

PINSKY: Plus, the scandal that took Honey Boo Boo off TV. Is Mama June dating a sex offender?

MAMA JUNE: We have fun what we do especially like filming the show. I mean, who doesn`t fart? Who doesn`t burp?

PINSKY: I`ll talk to them.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. I`m here with my co-host Sam Schacher.

Honey Boo Boo`s family in crisis tonight.

SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. She has been photographed, the mother work a convicted pedophile. We`ll get into it and we`ll hear

from Mama June.

PINSKY: Oh, boy. But first, sex, lies, premeditation. Jodi Arias retrial, jurors were treated to, treated in quotes, "to an earful". And we

have to warn you, some of this material is graphic. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDER: Why don`t we just talk through a list of happy things and get - - normalized for a moment. And we`ll see where it takes us.

(LAUGHTER)

ARIAS: We`ll see where it takes us.

ALEXANDER: I love doing it for you.

ARIAS: And you have done it. Oooh, ooh.

ALEXANDER: Now, I`ve more than done it. I`ve frickin` done it.

ARIAS: You`ve gone to town.

ALEXANDER: Yes, I went to town after like 45 minutes one night.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That`s the one thing about you. You have the most incredible stamina that I`ve ever, ever even dreamed of encountering.

ALEXANDER: We have other two and three-hour sessions any time.

ARIAS: Yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the sink. That`s the sink with his blood on it after has been stabbed. The knife goes into his scalp and creates a divot.

And that is painful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: And joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Melissa McCarty, reporter, TV host,

author of "News Girls Don`t Cry".

Welcome, Melissa.

We also have Jen Wood from the trialdiaries.com. She was in court today.

Jen, what is the latest?

JEN WOOD, TRIALDIARIES.COM (via telephone): Wow, I will have to say that go Kirk Nurmi was part of the highlight today as he is taking a couple

pages out of Juan Martinez play book. He is using a lot of Juan`s strategy that Juan used during the first trial, by even attacking Detective Flores

by asking him, do you have a memory problem?

PINSKY: Interesting. And I understand he also did things like re-enacting -- look how different he looks.

SCHACHER: I didn`t even know that was him. That`s crazy.

PINSKY: Isn`t that interesting?

So, Anahita, do you think this tape had a different impact this time? I know when listen to it now, I have a different feeling. Before it was just

shock, now it`s more a squeamishness, knowing what she was sucking him into. Knowing it was a premeditated act of recording it to do some sort of

blackmail.

What do you think the jurors are thinking now?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, I think the defense wants them to see another side of Travis Alexander. I read a lot of tweets and social media

comments. And people continue to say why is the defense re-victimizing the victim?

I know it is hard to hear this. This poor guy is dead. But the reality is that this is a self-defense case. And I`ve explained this on your show

before.

In order to prove self-defense, Jodi needs to approve that Travis Alexander was somebody she feared. So the defense needs to play these sex tapes.

They need to show that he was possibly sexually abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive.

If they portray him or concede that he`s this great, lovable guy that would never harm a fly, then they wouldn`t be able to prove self-defense. They

have to do this.

PINSKY: I don`t know.

Karamo, I`ve listened to these tapes. What I`ve heard of him, I don`t see where he`s being -- in fact, what I hear is a manipulative weird girl. Why

did he respond to that is more my question.

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: I agree with you 100 percent, Dr. Drew. I don`t hear -- I don`t want to trash him. Of course, he played a part in this.

But what he did was he just was being manipulated by this horrible, horrible woman. I will say this a hundred time over -- she is despicable

and she is disgusting.

So, what he did was he was just playing with fire and did not know that that fire was going to burn him and take his life. It`s just ridiculous.

PINSKY: Now, Melissa, I`ve not heard your opinion yet. I`m of the opinion that yes, Jodi Arias had some psychiatric problems and people with similar

psychiatric problems are offended that had she is in that camp because even with people with severe boredom personality disorder do not manipulate in

this cold-blooded fashion, do not murder. And they don`t want to be associated with her.

What do you say?

MELISSA MCCARTY, TV HOST: I think this has nothing to do with her emotional state. Obviously, it is in her. She has emotional problems,

self-control impulse problems. But not enough that she didn`t know right from wrong.

And bottom line: premeditated. She is a cold-blooded killer and as a long time crime reporter who has covered countless murder cases, I can tell you

that one that sticks out, a husband actually murdered, dismembered and boiled, he cooked his wife and was not sentenced to death.

I really don`t think with more women on the jury this time that she will get a death sentence. I think she`ll get life in prison and that`s what

she should get in my opinion.

PINSKY: Does she give you any feeling, any instinct of any of these other horrible murders, as you`ve seen?

MCCARTY: I think yes. She has no remorse.

I mean, I`ve been in the courtroom, especially on sentencing day where the killer is leering at me as a local reporter. I think she has no remorse

whatsoever.

I remember something that stood out in my mind. She said death on her is freedom.

Let`s not give her that. Let`s lock her in a cage so she is trapped. Not only with her own horrible thoughts and regrets, but she`s caged for the

rest of her life. And let`s take control out of her.

You know, when it come to Travis, she always wanted that sexual control over him.

PINSKY: She had it.

MCCARTY: When she started to lose the emotional control, that`s when she snapped.

PINSKY: That`s when she lost him.

Thank you, guys.

Behavior bureau is next. Let`s see how they reacted to sex tape.

And, later, the end of Honey Boo Boo`s reality fame. Is Mama June dating a convicted sex offender?

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I wasn`t angry, I was just shocked, like I thought --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. He`s asking for things.

ARIAS: I`m sorry.

KIRK NURMI: No need to apologize to him, Jodi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to object to defense counsel`s outburst.

NURMI: There has been video online of Mr. Martinez outside the courtroom, signing autographs and posing for pictures. I believe this misconduct may

very well have been seen by jurors.

JUDGE: Mr. Martinez?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens outside the courtroom is not misconduct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau: Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", Erica America, psychotherapist and

television host, and Jennifer Keitt, life coach.

Jodi`s attorney, Kirk Nurmi, has a new look people have been chatting about online. We asked our Facebook community whether it could have an effect on

the jury.

And, Sam, what did they say?

SCHACHER: We have some interesting posts, Dr. Drew.

OK. So, from Tammy L., she writes, "It absolutely can have an effect. In this case it wouldn`t matter if Brad Pitt was the lawyer."

From Cali L., "Honestly, I don`t think it will change anyone`s mind but he certainly does looks much, much, much more professional."

And from Corina H., "He looks like a lawyer now and not like some wannabe thinking he`s an actor from Breaking Bad."

And finally from Meliza R., "He is trying to look like Juan."

PINSKY: Jennifer, you`re smiling.

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Wow, I say he`s dressing for where he`s going. No disrespect to the family of the victim, but he is definitely going to

parlay this career after the Jodi Arias trial. It is sensational.

Yes, he`s going for where he`s going. He wouldn`t be the first attorney to parlay a career after a very big sensational trial. And he looks like he

is a man going places now to me. If she by chance does not get the death penalty, he will be the one that gets some credit in terms keeping her off

death row. So, it looks like standard way to --

PINSKY: To prepare.

KEITT: Yes, to prepare. Exactly.

PINSKY: I want to propose a different theory. Let`s start with Erica.

Erica, I say that, I look at this and I go, he was taking care of himself in the intervening months since we last saw him. I`m wondering if it

wasn`t the stress of dealing with Jodi Arias back during the original trial that caused him to overeat and gain all that weight and we got away from

her. Then he was able to restore a more normal body weight.

ERICA AMERICA, TV HOST: Well, it`s definitely a possibility. You know, food for many people is an addiction, emotional eating. I would have to

look back in the history, see if there was, you know --

PINSKY: Wouldn`t you overeat if you were dealing with Jodi Arias?

AMERICA: I think a lot of people would.

PINSKY: Your client is misbehaving, taking -- you know, going backstage, and having interviews with local media. Oh, my God, I would have a

sandwich just thinking about it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yes.

AMERICA: On the other hand, Dr. Drew, everybody wants to look their best. Think about the O.J. trial. Everyone had a makeover. Marsha, I mean, it`s

just that you want to be as attractive as possible. So, there`s that.

PINSKY: All right. Wendy, settle the score.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I want to say something we need to talk about hear. Do you he got a toupee? Hair implants? Do you really think

he grew that thick hair? Like seriously?

SCHACHER: He looks good.

PINSKY: He looks great. God bless him.

Show me -- somebody show me his hairline before. I`m looking at video of him before. Well, he was shaven. His head was shaven.

WALSH: You know, I live in Hollywood. I`m sorry, maybe he got a little lipo. Maybe he is not actually healthier. He just look healthier.

PINSKY: How dare you, Wendy? How dare you?

At one point this morning, Nurmi was attempting to tell the jury that if Jodi had planned to murder Travis Alexander, she could have done it in the

24 seconds Travis had turned his back on her. So, during his argument, Nurmi actually paused for 24 seconds to demonstrate how long it was, it`s

reminiscent of what Martinez during his closing agreement.

Sam, you`re sighing at this. What do you say?

SCHACHER: It`s ridiculous. I mean, she was having sex with him and she wanted to watch him die. It took him two minutes to die. So, it is the

two minutes, it is way more important than the 24 seconds she could have killed him.

PINSKY: We agree with you. But take a look, we`re talking about Nurmi and the page he`s taking from Juan Martinez`s behavior. He is fighting fire

with fire, in addition to losing some weight. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ: If we`re going to be talking about approximately two minutes, that must have been interminable for him. Let just sit for two

minutes.

(2 MINUTES OF PAIN)

And now he got his throat slit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, Jennifer, is he just mimicking or fighting fire with fire, is that what we`re seeing?

KEITT: You know, I have to agree with you on that, Dr. Drew. Because this trial is so charge, so sensational, I would even say they`re taking play

books from television, to be totally honest with you. It really is quite, quite dramatic, if I can put it that way.

AMERICA: No, I`m saying, I got to say this. I know this is not exactly what we`re talking about. But look, she is mentally ill. She did not

deserve the death penalty.

This had -- the reason everyone is so into this is because she is a beautiful girl. It has the earmarks of a Lifetime movie and it is

attracting the negative parts of people that want to see someone thrown to the lions -- a very really horrible part of humanity.

We need to look at what happened here.

PINSKY: Erica --

AMERICA: A very mentally ill woman killed someone. And I think --

PINSKY: Well, I agree.

AMERICA: There was a lot of negative stuff going to on both sides. I think he used her as well. He used sexually and in other ways.

SCHACHER: Oh my God.

PINSKY: Well, he may have some sex -- first of all, Eric, give your Twitter handles so they can send them your way, instead of my way. I am

convinced that yes, she had some mental illness but the magnitude of her manipulativeness and coldbloodedness, it`s that we`re seeing as a second

look through all this.

Sam, you will agree that is starting to stand out.

SCHACHER: Yes, 100 percent.

AMERICA: I kind of think, if she was not so mentally ill, she would not have been able to do that. That`s how I see it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Everybody? Hold it.

I`m going to invite in the jurors, the people we call Dr. Drew`s jurors. And they will tell us what they witnessed in the courtroom today.

And later, could she be rehabilitated? Could Jodi be rehabilitated? We`ll explain after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he force you to do things you didn`t want to do?

ARIAS: I didn`t feel altogether forced. I went along with it.

We had sex. He is not really there presently. He is not mentally present. I`m getting a lot of attention but only while we`re engaging in sexual

activity and then we check out and he takes off, and I kind of felt like a prostitute.

MARTINEZ: That`s sort of how you`re making it sound. Like it`s something that you didn`t want, right?

ARIAS: If I didn`t want it, then I wouldn`t have done it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Trial watcher, Monica Lindstrom, and an attorney following all the action inside the courtroom. Today the jurors heard a very explicit sex

tape that lasted almost an hour.

Monica, I`ll ask you first -- was the impact less shocking this time around? I mean, last time, we were in disbelief. This time we knew it was

coming. To me, it had a different impact on me. I wonder how it was in the room.

MONICA LINDSTROM, ATTORNEY, LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it was interesting because right when it started, you could feel the anticipation in the

courtroom. Everybody knew what was coming. So, we were all waiting for the bad words, the sexy words, right?

And then when it came to about maybe eight minutes, all of a sudden, the jury stopped moving. They sat there and they listened. It was like they

were a bunch of statues. They were just focusing on what they were hearing.

And the women, most of them were looking down. The men were kind of, their arms, their heads in their hand, listening like that. And, of course,

there were the three in the middle of the front row. The guy just never moving, staring straight ahead, the woman next to him, just frowning, and

then another woman now next to that woman kind of frowning.

They didn`t really ever look at Jodi Arias from what I can tell. And I`m not sure if she ever looked at them. But it was very surprising that they

were so calm and so stoic.

PINSKY: And, Katie, this is your second go around in the room with the jury. I wonder if you observed the same thing that Monica was describing.

And number two, for me hearing --

KATIE WICK: Well, Dr. Draw --

PINSKY: Hang on, Katie, wait a second. For me, hearing it this time around, I felt the seediness come through more on Jodi`s part, the

manipulativeness. And I`m wondering why he was even like succumbing to this.

Those are the kind of thoughts I had this time.

WICK: Well, the first time, when I heard it. When I was in the first trial, Dr. Drew, like Monica says, everybody, we didn`t really know what

was going on. But I think this time, because there`s a jury that`s younger, I don`t think, I wouldn`t imagine it would be really shocking,

because it`s a younger crowd. It is not, the other jury, there were a lot of maybe over 50 years old, not saying that`s old, but older that might not

be used to something like this.

So, I just -- I feel that it will actually work better for Juan Martinez, playing this sex tape in the first place, because I think it actually, when

I heard it the first time, I thought this is going to be really bad. But it didn`t. It humanized Travis, whether that`s good or bad. But it

humanized him.

But I think for the jury to hear his voice, to get his voice in that courtroom actually helps the state.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: Interesting.

Monica, you tweeted earlier, "You can hear more emotion in Jodi Arias` voice in this taped convo that I saw all the days during the trial."

So, I want to ask you, do you think that all of Jodi`s emotions are fake?

LINDSTROM: No, I don`t. When I was listening to that phone call, I didn`t think everything she was saying and doing was fake. She was giggling just

like a girl in love.

Yes, I do think whatever she is capable in the realm of love, I think that she felt that for Travis Alexander. I really do. You can hear her

giggling, you can hear her laughing, you can the sincerity when he complimented her and she complimented him.

So, I heard a lot of different emotions in that phone call. And let me tell you -- I`m not seeing any of that in the courtroom. The only time I

see her smile is when she looks at Jennifer Willmott here and there, and or when everybody out of the courtroom, and she is talking to the deputies.

That`s about it.

PINSKY: All right. We`re asking a question -- thank you, guys. Stay with me.

We`re asking the question: can Jodi be rehabilitated. I`ll explain more later.

And later, Honey Boo Boo`s family and television show are coming apart due to a scandal over a sex predator. There she is. When I interviewed her a

couple years ago with my stethoscope. We`ll show you some of that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the jury, with all her premeditation and actions afterwards, find her too smart to be mentally ill?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she`s going to have hell on earth. Why kill her? Let her live her hell in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She met a nice, wholesome, caring young man, and she systematically tried to get him into depravity and corrupt him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally don`t believe in the death penalty. Never have. But I have to think, if not in this case, then when?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo, Katie and Monica. We`re asking you, can Jodi Arias be rehabilitated in prison? You can vote on our

Facebook page. Right now only 4 percent of you think she has even a chance of that. Look at that, no, 96 percent. All right, Karamo, is it our

responsibility -- let me frame this more carefully. OK? Let`s say she doesn`t get the death penalty. Let`s say for the sake of argument there is

some mental illness here, let`s say there is some psychopathy here. Is it the responsibility of anyone, the state, anyone, to rehabilitate her or

give her a chance at rehabilitation? Or rather because of her psychopathic tendencies, is the responsibility to merely punish?

BROWN: I think she will not be able to be rehabilitated at all. You have to be remorseful. And this woman is not remorseful. It is not the duty of

the state. If we keep her in jail, what`s going to happen is this woman is going to become a business woman. She`ll have hair lines, she will sell t-

shirts. We don`t want that. I don`t want a Jodi Arias t-shirt. I don`t want anyone else buying that. We need to figure a way to put her to death.

PINSKY: Anahita wants one.

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, yes. Dr. Drew, thanks. I don`t think she is going to be able to do that. I think there are Son of Sam laws in Arizona.

But Dr. Drew, one issue we haven`t talked about, and I`m shocked that we haven`t, is why isn`t this jury sequestered? You`re talking about a death

penalty case that is so high profile, why aren`t the jurors sequestered? Why run the risk that they may be contaminated? You literally can`t go

anywhere without hearing about Jodi Arias, reading about Jodi Arias.

PINSKY: Last time it was much more omnipresent, the topic of Jodi Arias, and last time, I don`t think -- were they sequestered last time? I don`t

recall. They were not sequestered last time. Let me ask that of the jurors. What do you say, Monica? Do you think they should have been?

MCCARTY: I think if there was ever a case to sequester a jury, it would be this one just because of the magnitude of the media attention that it

received last time. The only thing I think that goes against that is the fact that Judge Stevens waited approximately 15 months to redo this trial.

So there was a cooling off period here in Maricopa County. Hoping some people would forget about it and not pay attention anymore.

PINSKY: Katie, you`re in law school now. Does Jodi Arias come up in your criminal law cases?

WICK: This is fascinating. When I got to law school, I asked -- most people at the school didn`t even know who Jodi was. I brought it up to

maybe ten people. And I would say seven out of ten didn`t know, and it was right before jury selection happened. I was so skeptical. Nobody is not

going to know who Jodi Arias is. Well, there are people who don`t who Jodi Arias is.

So I wanted to make a real fast point. You were talking about the mental illness and all that. I`m not a doctor but I will say this. She cannot be

rehabilitated. She is evil. And evil isn`t a mental illness, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s my kind of lawyer right there.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Wait a minute. Sam, you go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Wait, wait.

SCHACHER: How can the jury even attempt to try to believe this girl? First she was not even there. She was in Northern California. Then it was

the two ninjas, that killed him, and oh poor her, she got away. Then she was abused by Travis Alexander. Then it was the PTSD. Now it is the

mental illness. Even if she had a mental illness, how do you explain the fact that she had all this preparation with the premeditation, and she

cleaned up after?

SEDAGHATFAR: None of it matters.

SCHACHER: How? How does it not matter?

SEDAGHATFAR: Because this is the penalty phase of the trial, you guys. None of that matters. To suggest somehow that somebody on this panel who

is not trained medically can say she can`t be rehabilitated, I frankly think that`s a stretch.

I`m not defending Jodi Arias. She admitted that she killed this guy. She`s been convicted by a jury of her peers for first-degree murder. They

found it to be the cruelest form of murder. But none of that matters anymore. What needs to be focused on right now, she still has the right to

a fair trail. That`s her constitutional right. And none of the other previous stuff matters. They just need to make the decision whether or not

she dies or she spends the rest of her life in prison.

BROWN: And the answer, she should die.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I have some responses from social media. And perhaps, OK, so even Katie, please, you guys can respond to these as well. From

Teresa, she says, "do we want to be known as a nation who kills people with mental illness?" It is exactly what we`ve been talking about. It says

more about us than about her.

PINSKY: Let me make that address. I was very much last time around in the camp of, maybe this is severe borderline or something. But I really have

had time to contemplate this and to think about her case. Now we`re seeing all the evidence again. I have to tell you, the cold-bloodedness. The

chronic nature of her detachment from her parents, the lack of remorse, the lack of empathy, the cold-blooded lying and manipulation. We`ve really had

a chance to look at this now, and the picture is of someone with something more than a borderline personality disorder. That`s why people with

borderline disorders are so upset. They feel as though Jodi is going to add to the stigma, that even though they have severe borderline, they`re

not killing people, they`re not even contemplating killing people. They`re more likely to hurt themselves than someone else.

And here`s someone who acts out in a heinous way, premeditated, and then covers it up and lies. There`s something much more going on. And Anahita,

I would ask you, if that`s not sort of evil, how do we define what evil is, then?

SEDAGHATFAR: It could be a combination of both.

PINSKY: No, it is. I`m saying it is. Because we know she has borderline, because that was measured. That`s an objective psychometric measurement.

Ms. DeMarco (ph) last time around measured that. But also, is what I`m saying, this psychopathy. What else is evil but that?

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s a dilemma, and that is why the jurors have to make this very difficult decision, Dr. Drew, and we saw last time around, four

of those jurors couldn`t sentence her to death. Do we put individuals who are mentally ill to death? There`s ample case law that says no. We can`t

do that.

SCHACHER: We can`t just blanket it and say mentally ill.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: You know what I`m saying. This is not just borderline, it is borderline plus.

BROWN: Yes, borderline plus, and there is so much more going on here. And that jury, those four jury members, they were manipulated.

PINSKY: I`m saying, Anahita, it`s like if she were diabetic and a psychopath. It wouldn`t go, we can`t kill a diabetic because (inaudible).

SEDAGHATFAR: You can`t kill somebody with mental illness, though.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Case by case basis. Please.

PINSKY: Help me out with this. She is going to the mat on the idea that brain disorders affect, all brain disorders affect moral judgment,

therefore no one can be convicted of anything.

SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, that`s not what I said.

PINSKY: OK. Monica, what do you say?

WICK: Dr. Drew, can I make a quick point?

PINSKY: Sure, Katie, go ahead.

WICK: Real fast? I just want to say, she is evil. I sat in that courtroom for four months and I looked in those cold, dark, sharp eyes.

She is purely evil. I think to suggest that because she could be rehabilitated or not, we still have to remember what she did to Travis. We

have to remember that Travis (inaudible), that they won`t have their brother. What I`m saying is that she is evil and she is cold-blooded. If

she has mental illness, that`s one thing. But I think -- what I don`t want to happen is I don`t want there to be people out there that are going to

get away with murder and get the ultimate punishment they do deserve and be able to use--

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: However it works, guys, we have to leave it. We have to leave it right there. That`s it. We`re going to follow Jodi I`m sure to the end of

this trial. But we`ll have to leave this conversation here. Next up, has a convicted child molester taken up with Honey Boo Boo`s mother? I will

speak with the family after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: America`s most watched 7-year-old and Mama June are here with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mama June`s new boyfriend is a registered sex offender, who served 10 years in prison for assaulting an 8-year-old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this isn`t just any child molester. This is the very man who molested her oldest daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anna has come forward and said, she was the child victim that was molested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TLC just pulled the plug on "Honey Boo Boo" for fear that this could really blow up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey Boo Boo`s family seems to be exceptionally loving. But that didn`t stop people online from posting dire predictions

this will end badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Melissa. This is our most tweeted story of the day. According to media reports, Honey Boo Boo`s

mother June Shannon is dating a registered sex offender, Mark Anthony McDaniel. He is 53 years of age. We obtained these photos of the alleged

couple, whom you just saw from TMZ. There they are there. McDaniel had served ten years in prison. He was convicted of aggravated child

molestation of June`s daughter. Sam, June is denying any romantic link with this guy, right?

SCHACHER: Yes, she is. So June Shannon who most of you know as Mama June has posted a denial on the Honey Boo Boo website. She wrote in part,

quote, "it isn`t true. I promise my kids are my No. 1 priority and I would never put them in danger. They are my life. This is my past. I left him

ten years ago and I wouldn`t go back."

PINSKY: On the phone, I have Melissa Cronin, she is managing editor of Radar Online. Melissa, Radar Online reports that Mama June began a

relationship with this man over a decade ago. Of course, we are looking at photos provided by TMZ here. She said she left him ten years ago. When

are these photos from? What do you know?

MELISSA CRONIN, RADAR ONLINE: The photos are from a recent house hunting trip between June Shannon and McDaniel. And though she denied it, if you

think about the timing of the math of it, her daughter Alana is just 9. And McDaniel was released from a ten-year prison stint in March, so it is

impossible, the time line doesn`t add up.

PINSKY: And Radar Online is alleging they have now talked to the 20-year- old victim. Is that right?

CRONIN: Absolutely. Radar Online has been in constant contact with June`s daughter Anna since we obtained documents that named her as the victim. We

did not identify her in connection with the assault until we had her express permission to do so, but she wants the world to know that she feels

betrayed that her mother has let this child molester back into her life, and she says the relationship could well be over.

PINSKY: And CNN cannot confirm this independently. But Melissa Cronin, the relationship with her mother is over or the relationship between the

mother and this man is over? Which?

CRONIN: The relationship with her mother. She has no comment about her mother`s relationship with McDaniel.

PINSKY: And I would say, just I would say, just bringing a perpetrator around a child, you don`t have to be romantically involved with him. Just

letting a perpetrator be around a child, even when that child is now an adult, that is not okay.

SCHACHER: Talk about further revictimizing this poor girl that was already forced to give him oral sex, Dr. Drew. That was the charge. At 8 years

old. What is Mama June thinking? Even putting him around her children? Even around Honey Boo Boo, who is 9 years old. This is insane.

PINSKY: Karamo, you have interviewed Mama June.

BROWN: I have interviewed Mama June.

PINSKY: And what do you think is going on here?

BROWN: Can I tell you from my interview with her and from speaking with her, this is a woman -- I`m saying this from being someone who was a teen

parent. Let`s be clear. This woman as a teen parent is now an adult, who is still seeking love. She is trying to find someone to love her. She

looks like she doesn`t have a lot of self-esteem, a lot of self-confidence. And when someone as a teen parent does not have that love, is searching for

that love, they do things that harm their children. That`s the unfortunate part of what`s going here.

This woman is not really concerned about her child. She is concerned about, I just lost my husband and I don`t have love. This man loved me.

So if he says he did right, I can believe him. There is a whole mental situation going on there.

PINSKY: Melissa, there you are, one of our guests on the panel here, you must have covered many criminal cases of sex offenders. What do you make

of this?

MCCARTY: Once a child molester, always a child molester. Those urges never go away. There was never a lot of trust within those families to

begin with, because according to the documents, when this first happened, you know, the eldest daughter went to a teacher about the abuse and didn`t

feel comfortable even going to Mama June. And there was another interview that said when she finally did, that Mama June said how could you do this

to me? Versus the abuse and the repeated abuse toward then 8-year-old who is now a grown woman and having to relive this. I think TLC made the right

move in yanking this family off the air.

PINSKY: Anahita, what about the remaining underage kids?

SEDAGHATFAR: I think they need to be taken away, Dr. Drew. What kind of judgment is this? I get that the guy served his time. Apparently he is

not violating any of the conditions of his release, but this is just ridiculous. How desperate and stupid does a mother have to be to date a

convicted child molester? And not just any child molester. It`s the guy that repeatedly molested her own daughter. And it reminds me, Dr. Drew, of

the cases we covered on your show where we saw women that allowed their boyfriends and husbands to rape their kids in order to keep the man in

their lives.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Karamo, you can back me up on this, but usually what we see in woman like that is they, too, have been sexually abused as --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: They don`t perceive these boundaries normally.

BROWN: And yes, I think that`s what`s happening here. If you look at June, I`m telling you, I`ve talked to her and I`ve looked her in the eye.

This woman has a lot of self-esteem issues. And also, June is no Boo Boo herself. The woman is very smart. She is very contrived, she is very

calculating in what she says.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not smart. Oh, my God!

PINSKY: Karamo and I both talked to her. She is not a foolish woman.

BROWN: At all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But she is foolish to have a convicted sex offender.

PINSKY: That`s an emotional thing. That`s a boundary problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn`t strike me as someone a very high I.Q. Forget about her poor judgment. You guys are both saying she is so smart?

She can`t even formulate a proper sentence.

BROWN: She has turned nothing into something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn`t. Her people did.

SCHACHER: I don`t care how intelligent she is. I don`t care if she is the smartest person in the room. I don`t care. The very fact that she is

putting this man around a 9-year-old who already forced oral sex on an 8- year-old, her own daughter, the fact that she didn`t believe her daughter. The fact that that daughter, Anna, had to go live with her grandmother.

I`m so happy that TLC yanked the program, Dr. Drew, and more kudos to them because they have also offered to give Anna and to give the children tutors

and counseling.

PINSKY: Melissa, final thought.

MCCARTY: Listen, she built this multimillion dollar enterprise around the family, but again, it doesn`t say much for her intelligence level when she

is still putting her children that she is trying to publicly claim she loves so much in the danger of this predator. He will do it again. He`s

done it in the past, and it is just ripping this family apart.

PINSKY: Anahita, why are you smiling?

SEDAGHATFAR: I`m just smiling at the need for you guys to say she`s such a smart woman.

PINSKY: I`m not saying --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hey, listen. I`m just saying. Let`s remind ourselves, that how intelligent someone is does not have a direct relationship with their

interpersonal choices, their interpersonal judgment, their emotional functioning. And this is a classic situation when somebody has trauma in

childhood, they magically, no matter how bright they are, bring those same traumas back to their households and upon their children in spite of their

best intentions. It happens to smart people. Karamo and I were just saying, we spent a little time with this woman, we thought she was bright,

given what our expectations were more than anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You must have had some low expectations then.

PINSKY: I got to get out, guys. See you later. Behavior bureau next. A reminder, you can find us any time on Instagram @drdrewhln.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That`s my stethoscope. I will put it on my heart. What does it sound like?

Is it difficult to be on TV?

Is she sleeping?

JUNE SHANNON: We have fun with what we do. Especially like filming the show. I mean, who doesn`t fart? Who doesn`t burp?

PINSKY: I think about every reality family. I`ve seen like John and Kate. Their relationships start to fall apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam in our behavior bureau. Wendy, Erica and Jennifer. I had chatted with Honey Boo Boo and her mom, June Shannon, a

few years ago during a promotional tour for their show. TLC has now canceled "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" when the reports surfaced that Mama

June is dating a convicted sex offender. Jennifer, your reaction?

KEITT: I think that the money needs to be seized. On top of everything else.

PINSKY: They`ve made nothing out of this.

KEITT: Here`s what I mean. She has got control. Mama June has control of the money, correct?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I believe she set up some independent funds for the kids. That`s what she told me she had done.

KEITT: But if the kids are no longer in her custody, I heard that she is being investigated in terms of whether or not the children can even stay

with her anymore. Everyone is going to lose in that regard. And I would hate to see the fact that that fortune was built on those children, for

them not get anything in addition to be putting them danger.

PINSKY: Wendy, hold on. Let`s look at this little tape. When she responded to my question about her role as manager and matriarch. Take a

look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON: I am the manager because I know we`re busy by ourselves. So if we had a manager, we couldn`t be on the road 24 hours a day, and I have

other kids besides Alana. This experience will help the future of Alana because a lot of the money is put in trust funds.

PINSKY: For college.

SHANNON: Yes. And equally. Equal for all the girls.

PINSKY: So she is earning money for the kids.

SHANNON: It`s about the whole family as a whole. I made that choice. Because in Georgia, there is not laws out there that I have to put that

money, but I chose to as a parent, because this isn`t going to last for 20, 30 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So Wendy, there you go. I don`t know what kind of trust funds. But it appears she set up trust funds for everybody.

WALSH: So she kind of answered my question. Here in the state of California, any performing child that makes money under the age of 18, a

huge percentage, I think like 80 percent, has to be put in an account that they can`t touch until they`re 18. That`s why young stars go crazy when

they`re 18.

She is clearly saying she put in it trust.

Dr. Drew, I have another kind of money question. I`m so skeptical when it comes to Hollywood and the TV business. Sorry. What have the ratings been

like on "Honey Boo Boo"?

SCHACHER: I know that.

PINSKY: Sam, go ahead.

SCHACHER: I know when it was very popular, Wendy, it was 3.5 million viewers. Now I think it is right around 1.8. So it has plummeted. It is

still a successful show and they do have a whole season in the can that TLC is also not going to air.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: So they are taking the high road. They`re losing some money on this.

PINSKY: Erica, you heard the conversation we had in that last block where everyone was arguing about June`s intellect, frankly. Can you see, do you

agree with me just looking at that footage, she is a fairly bright woman. And well intentioned, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Karamo and you hit it right on the head. First of all, this is a self-esteem issue. I think she loves her children

but she can`t help but go do something out of a pure need for love. And she doesn`t realize that by bringing a convicted sex offender in her life,

she is just going to repeat a cycle that will really damage her family. And exactly, you hit it right on the head when you said, of course, some of

the smartest people. Who doesn`t know, maybe themselves, a smart person who doesn`t make really bad choices emotionally. A lot of times you can

make emotional decisions that are really bad for you. So being smart and doing dumb things don`t go hand in hand. So exactly, so the fact that she

has this really successful career, I`m sure she has a lot of smarts. Absolutely.

PINSKY: Jennifer, what do you think, people have speculated what this will mean to Alana. That she was Honey Boo Boo. What the impact will be on

this 9-year-old across her life span. What do you speculate?

KEITT: I speculate that it will be a challenging road. I`m hoping not impossible but definitely challenging. This child has been brought up in

the spotlight. And now with this kind of scandal that she is going to have to deal with over the next few years, I`m concerned. I`m very concerned.

That her mom would choose a man over her children, over her girls, that speaks volumes to what she feels about herself and what she feels about

those girls.

SCHACHER: And I`m really concerned about this 20-year-old, Dr. Drew, who now has to see her mother parade around with her perpetrator. Once again.

PINSKY: She can get treatment. Hopefully there`s funds now for treatment. Wendy, last words. Ten, 15 seconds.

WALSH: I want to say really quickly there`s a big difference between raw intelligence and education. I think she is highly intelligent. She is not

educated.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: I think Honey Boo Boo has been exploited and she is continuing to be exploited. My heart goes out to that baby.

PINSKY: Everybody, thank you very much. We`ll be on the after show in a few moments. Join us there. "FORENSIC FILES" up next.

END