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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
NASA Rocket Explodes Seconds After Launch; State Police Parked Outside Kaci Hickox's Boyfriend's Home; What Is Life Like on the International Space Station?; Interview with Benjamin Crump
Aired October 29, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us. There is a lot of happening tonight. She's already tested negative for Ebola twice, so why are state troopers right now parked outside the home where the nurse, Kaci Hickox, lives? What happens if she breaks her quarantine as she says she will? Just moments ago, she made a statement. We'll bring that to you as soon as we get it.
Also, piecing together what blew this rocket apart. The explosion could be seen for miles. We have dome tough questions for NASA tonight about outsourcing missions like this one to private contractors.
And later, Ferguson police chief, will he stay or will he go? More important, will police reform and other reforms be enough to contain the rage if a grand jury does not indict the officer who killed Michael Brown?
We begin with breaking news.
In a standoff, right now, pitting the State of Maine, including the governor and state health officials and state police, against a nurse. A pretty brave one who volunteered to treat Ebola patients in West Africa and has gotten perhaps the world's worst welcome home.
Take a look. This is the scene right now in the tiny town of Fort Kent on Maine's Canadian border, Kaci Hickox's boyfriend's home. A pair of state police cruisers are parked outside.
Inside, Ms. Hickox, who you will recall was first confined to a tent outside a hospital in Newark, New Jersey, then was allowed to go home to Maine where she is now vowing to break her quarantine there.
Now, it bears mentioning and repeating, she has twice test tested negative for Ebola, so she is not contagious. She doesn't have Ebola. She has not tested positive. We're expecting to receive video of a statement just made, as I said. she spoke earlier on NBC's "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KACI HICKOX, NURSE FORCED TO QUARANTINE: You know, I don't plan on sticking to the guidelines. I remain appalled by these home quarantine policies that have been forced upon me even though I am in perfectly good health and feeling strong and have been, this entire time, completely symptom-free. If the restrictions placed on me by the State of Maine are not lifted by Thursday morning, I will go to court to fight for my freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Maine's governor, Paul LaPage, says Ms. Hickox has been unwilling to follow CDC guidelines even though those federal guidelines actually say she should not be quarantined. The state is seeking a court order to keep her home.
Today, surrounded by health care workers, many of whom have been back from West Africa for less than the 21-day incubation period for Ebola, President Obama had some tough words on these quarantines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I hear people talking about American leadership and then are promoting policies that would avoid leadership, and have us running in the opposite direction and hiding under the covers, it makes me a little frustrated.
We're at our best when we are standing up and taking responsibility, even when it requires us making sacrifices. America has never been defined by fear; we are defined by courage and passion and hope and selflessness and sacrifice and a willingness to take on challenges when others can't and others will not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta was at the event. He joins us shortly. But, first, one of Kaci Hickox's attorneys, Steven Hyman, is me here in New York.
Thanks, first, so much for being with us. There is a lot to talk about -- first of all, I just want to clarify a few things. The state now is going to court to mandate that she be quarantined. Is she going to fight that?
STEVEN HYMAN, KACI HICKOX'S ATTORNEY: Yes, but there is no way to fight it right now. This is ex parte at the moment. They're going to a judge the paranoid saying whatever they are saying. I have seen no papers. No papers have been served on Kaci. This is all within the domain of the government of Maine to do what they think they're supposed to do.
COOPER: Now, the state troopers outside her house, if she tries to leave or her boyfriend's house, if she tries to leave that place will they arrest her?
HYMAN: I don't know what the order is going to say. I don't know what the circumstances will be. But it is clear that the troopers are not there to protect Kaci.
COOPER: They say -- the governor of Maine says, and I want to get this right, that she has been uncooperative and not adhering to state and federal protocols.
HYMAN: That is completely wrong. And that is so far from the facts. Kaci, who knows what the standards are and who knows what is to be done has abided by them. She tests herself. She is -- has been with Ebola patients. She knows what it is. The governor is merely pandering to the fear that exist that supposedly she is contagious, which is of course, unproven and under any doctor, any doctor's reports, it says that she is not contagious.
COOPER: Right. This bears repeating. She does not have Ebola.
COOPER: She has not tested positive for Ebola.
HYMAN: Correct. She does not have fever, which is another symptom.
COOPER: Right, she has no symptoms of Ebola. Her temperature is normal -- I mean, her temperature is normal. She doesn't have a fever. And she would only be contagious if she did have Ebola and had reached the point where she was actually having symptoms.
COOPER: And she is not at that point.
HYMAN: And at the moment of symptoms you can end up going to a hospital, which she is prepared to, if God forbid anything like that happen. But she is being tested twice a day. She is in contact with the state health authorities.
COOPER: So you say she is being totally cooperative?
HYMAN: Absolutely. They want her to stay in the house because they say that it is going to be a risk to the public.
COOPER: I have been tweeting about this, because I think that it is amazing that a politician can point their finger at a citizen of the United States and say you're not sick, you're not contagious, but people are afraid so you have to stay in your house or we're even going to lock you up in your tent with a port-a-potty, even though there is no evidence you are contagious at all and people are very willing -- I mean, those are rights that have been thousands, tens of thousands Americans have fought and died for to protect. People are very willing to give up those rights because people are scared.
HYMAN: Yes. They're willing to give up somebody else's rights, not their right.
COOPER: So I've been getting a lot of tweets from people because I have been tweeting about this, who say, well look, it is only 21 days. She was in Africa in a tent. It can't have been easy living there. What is 21 days out of an abundance of caution, to do that you say to what? HYMAN: To that I say she has a right to live her life. She is not
sick. She exhibits no symptoms of being sick. She is an American citizen. And the government has no right to say you have to stay in a place when you are not subject to any rational medical evidence.
COOPER: I mean, there is an argument, some people have compared this to the government saying to somebody, you haven't committed a crime but we think you might commit a crime at some point in the future so you have to stay locked up or at you have to least stay in your home.
HYMAN: Right. It is preventive detention.
COOPER: Right, it doesn't make any scientific sense. And at certain point, you have to go by science.
HYMAN: And I had conversations with state official. I say I have medical statements that say there is no risk. What do you have to say that she should be quarantined? And I am met with silence.
COOPER: This is about politics in your mind?
HYMAN: It is all political, it is all driven by some kind of fear and hysteria that they are promoting. As you saw, the president is saying it is wrong.
COOPER: Steven Hyman, appreciate you being on. We are going to continue to follow this, because it is just stunning that his can be done.
Digging deeper now with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who as we mentioned, attended that event with the health care workers and the president today, where is at the White House. Also in Washington, CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, just from a legal standpoint, I mean, can a politician, can the government, a state government just label somebody has future sick, and therefore stay at home?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You're asking me, Anderson?
TOOBIN: Well, we'll see. This is going to be before a judge. And you know, usually, judges defer to the government on public health matters. Judges say look, I'm not a doctor. I have to accept what the medical doctors say. If they say there is a public health risk. But here, we have a situation that as far as I know there is no public health risk. And so the challenge is going to be what will the state of Maine say to convince a judge to keep nurse Kaci Hickox in this house when as far as we all know there is no medical risk to the community based on her circulating normally?
COOPER: So Sanjay, I mean, the other thing I'm hearing from people, and I understand their fears and concerns about it, is look, how do we really -- you know, the government has gotten it wrong so far about Ebola. And a lot of cases about the protective gear needed, staff like that. How do we know for sure that that 21-day period is real? How do we know for sure that you can't give it unless you actually have a fever of, you know, 101.4?
DOCTOR SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, it is interesting, because I think there is some distrust. And I think some of that has been fostered by what happened in Dallas. And some of those missteps. I think there is no question.
I don't think that changes, though, the basic science and some of the knowledge that has been gained over nearly 40 years about how this virus transmits. It transmits from somebody who is already sick with Ebola. That science stays the same. And you have an incredible dichotomy. People are looking at the same science and coming up with very different approaches to this.
We have a picture, I just want to show you, Anderson, at the White House today. There was doctors who returned from -- and nurses returned from Liberia, some of them within the last 21 days. They are in the White House. They are with the president of the United States. That's on the left.
On the right, Kaci Hickox who you have been talking about, she fits that same profile. No symptoms, returned within the last 21 days and she is facing a potential mandatory quarantine. So it is a huge dichotomy.
And I should point as well, Anderson, quickly, doctors at Emory now, doctors at Nebraska, doctors at the NIH including Dr. Fauci, had all taken care of patients with Ebola, should they all be quarantine as well? They practiced here in the United States. That is the only difference. They have had the same sort of exposure, questionable exposure, as the people they're thinking about quarantining. So how far does this go?
COOPER: And Jeff, I mean the thing about this is, this is a state by state decision. I think a lot of people are thought, OK. There are some sort of federal guidelines, but that is not the way it works with quarantines. It is up to the state. And that is why you have this dichotomy of some folks, who have been here less than 21 days in the White House, and a nurse Hickox, there locked in a house.
TOOBIN: And not only do you have -- your so moving targets in all 50 states, you have moving targets within the states. New Jersey has sort of change its rules. New Jersey appears to have change its rules. And here Maine is trying to set up the rules. And one thing to keep an eye on, and I think this is potentially very pernicious. The state of Maine may go to court and say well, we can't prove that she has a communicable disease. But we know there is fear in the community. So for the sake of the community's state of mind, she should be required to stay in the house for 21 days. And if that is the rule, that really would be a very anti-science approach. And it is something to watch to see if that argument is made and if the judge buys it.
COOPER: Well, I mean, that is a little bit like saying -- I mean, there are plenty of people that we're all scared of. But that doesn't mean we get to lock them up forever and ever and ever, does it, Jeff?
TOOBIN: It doesn't. But when it comes to public health, judges are very wary of going against the government. If the government of Maine says this is a public health matter, you know, it may be that the judge goes the other way. But judges always say in situations like this, look, I'm not a doctor. I have to rely on the experts before me. And if Maine brings in the experts that say this is a potential problem for the people of Maine I would not be at all surprised.
COOPER: I mean, Jeff, can you think of any other future sick or future crime that you can be locked up that has not actually happened?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, there are certain circumstances where, for example, sex offenders are kept in prison after the expiration of their sentences because they are perceived as so dangerous to the community. I mean, it is obscene to compare a heroic nurse with a sex offender. But, I mean, that is the kind of reasoning that sometimes goes on.
COOPER: OK Jeff, stay with us. Sanjay, as well. We're waiting for the video of Kaci Hickox's statement. Her attorney is still here, just in case he want to come one as well.
Joining us now by phone is Scott Dolan. Scott is a reporter for the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram who has at Hickox's home when she spoke out.
Scott, what did she say?
SCOTT DOLAN, REPORTER, PORTLAND PRESS HERALD/MAINE SUNDAY TELEGRAM (via phone): She came out of the house with her boyfriend. And she said that first of all, she was happy to be back in Maine. And she said they were in negotiations all day with the state of Maine and tried to resolve this. But the state was not going to allow her to leave her house and interact with the public, even though she says she was healthy and symptom-free. So she was frustrated. She also said that she is not sure what she is going to do next. The ball is in the state's court.
COOPER: So she is still seeing the ball in the state's court. She is not saying that she going to kind to walk down the block and see if she is going to get arrested.
DOLAN: She said she is not sure if will pull it through of that vow she made earlier. She said still (INAUDIBLE) then she said she will talk to her lawyers and then decide.
COOPER: Scott, thank you very much. One of her lawyers is right here.
Steven Hyman, when she says the ball is in the state's court, what are you waiting to hear?
HYMAN: Well, right now she is a free person.
COOPER: She is a free person. She has troopers outside her house, though.
HYMAN: Well, but the troopers can't do anything.
COOPER: You don't think they can arrest her?
HYMAN: No. If she walks down the street she is a free person.
COOPER: Are you willing to test that?
COOPER: But --
HYMAN: She is going home to sleep. I mean, she is not trying to be a test case. She is trying to live her life.
COOPER: She doesn't want to be a test case.
HYMAN: Well, she is trying to live her life. The most important thing for her is that she be treated well and others be treated well. If the state of Maine would be rational rather than been punitive, we could have work all this out.
COOPER: Let me ask you this again, because we talk about this before. But again, there are going to be people watching to say look, she is a nurse, she is a good person, she does good for other people. She is no doubt understanding of other people's fears and concerns. Just out of an abundance of caution in case she might get sick next week why not just agree to just stay inside the house?
HYMAN: Because it is her life. The right to live. You're telling me that because somebody else is afraid with no medical evidence to back it, that she should give up her life and go live in her house because they're afraid when she is not contagious. When every medical doctor's report says she is not contagious. And even if she exhibits symptoms, she is not contagious. Duncan, who unfortunately died, his family is asymptomatic.
COOPER: Forty-eight people who came in contact with him.
HYMAN: Of course, it is all evidence and medicine are clear in this regard. Only fear and hysteria are not. And the Supreme Court has been clear that in other cases, there is a great case in New Jersey that said myth and fear are not a basis.
COOPER: Sanjay brought up the other interesting point, is you have all of these doctors at Emory that treated Ebola patients, should they be quarantined now? I mean, there are actively --
COOPER: Right., at the NIH as well, in Nebraska and elsewhere.
Mr. Hyman, thank you for being on the program. Jeff, Sanjay, as well.
Quick reminder, set your DVR so you can watch "360" whenever you want. Coming up next, getting to the bottom of this. Take a look.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
COOPER: Huge explosion we witnessed last night. We'll look at what NASA is looking for in the wake of last night's massive rocket explosion. Former astronaut Kim Bowersox joins us.
Also later tonight, the woman in the video, she was simply walking down the street. These were all comments guys were making at her, for ten hours, more than 100 different people making cat calls at her, making lewd comments at her, following her on the street for minutes at a time. That is just one woman walking down the street with a hidden camera. It has launched million conversations today, a horrifyingly number of rape threats against her. The woman joins us ahead.
Video of the woman simply trying to walk down the street. This could be your daughter, your sister, your mom, this happens to women all the time. We'll talk about the effect of this on her. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Welcome back.
By now, you probably seen the video of that NASA rocket blowing up dozens of times. But chances are not like this. Pilot at ceiling, pilot caught this view of the launch from NASA's Wallops flight facility in Virginia. It would have been a sight to remember, no matter what happen next. Then as you can see, well, it all went very, very bad. The blast was so powerful it registered as an atomic disturbance on local weather radar. It could be seen and felt for miles, seen at atomic atmospheric. Luckily, the entire rocket was lifting cargo and not people into orbit and no one was killed or hurt in the air or on the ground, thankfully. Cause is still under investigation. And in a moment, reaction from a veteran astronaut.
But first, Gary Tuchman with how this all unfolded.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 6:22 p.m., and the final countdown is on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, four, three, two, one.
TUCHMAN: And just second after the unmanned Antares rocket took off o its way to the International Space Station, an explosion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And launch team, be advised, stay at your consoles, everyone else, maintain your positions in your consoles.
TUCHMAN: The situation at Wallops Island, Virginia, clearly catastrophic. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost the orb three vehicle, at this point
in time we're going to implement the Antares (INAUDIBLE) reaction plan.
TUCHMAN: CNN affiliate WBOCTV in Salisbury, Maryland, was broadcasting the launch live. The anchors stunned like with everybody else watching. The station had reporter on scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: You could feel the explosion. It knocked us backwards.
TUCHMAN: Many people excited about seeing a nighttime launch in person were shooting their own video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to be loud --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God!
TUCHMAN: As the seconds tick by, increased fear set in. Was anyone killed? Was anyone hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point it appears that the damage is limited to the facility. There is no indication that there are personnel in danger.
TUCHMAN: The flames, immense along the ocean front site. Destroyed with the rocket, thousands of pounds of cargo, including experiments and space walk equipment and food for the space station astronauts. The cause of the catastrophe, not yet known. The investigation just beginning.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
COOPER: The launch vehicle was built by the Orbital Sciences, company for the booster, the company chose it paired of Soviet Air (ph) rocket engines, not just designed. (INAUDIBLE) and manufactured in the old Soviet Union, which doesn't necessarily mean bad. Soviet Rocket technology run the gamut from stone cold reliable, to explosive. One of this blew up during a test back in May. Bad motor, though, is only one of many possible reason that the rocket actually blew up.
I want to talk about the investigation, the implications that are underlying as NASA now does on private launch companies with CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien, also retired astronaut Ken Bowersox who has flew five times on the space shuttle, once in a Russian Soyuz and nearly six months for the international space station. We should also mention he is a former paid adviser to Orbital Science.
Appreciate both of you being with us.
Miles, in terms of what happened last night, the explosion, what exactly went wrong as far as you know so far? Can you walk us through what happened?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. It is a little bit early to say, of course, Anderson, and it will take a little bit of time to comb through (INAUDIBLE) and look at the data and understand what may or may not have failed. But if you look at the video, and they will look at the video in many thousands of frames per second, high speed video. What you see is a rocket that kind of almost lurches to a stop. You see what appears to be a kind of debris coming out the bottom end where the rocket plume is, and you see discoloration.
All those things would lead you to believe that the first stage, the rocket, this soviet era rockets that were built about 40 years ago, might have failed. Now, there could be some other things that might have happened. There might have been a fuel line that leaked. That might have been a turbo pump. But one way or another you are going to be looking at the first stage as the possible point of failure.
COOPER: Ken, I mean, I guess some people would be surprised that they're using 40-year-old soviet era rockets, why is that?
KEN BOWERSOX, FLEW FIVE SPACE SHUTTLE MISSIONS: Well, there is two reasons. One is the Russians make pretty good hardware. If you look at the Soyuz rockets, those engines are pretty old design and it carries astronauts to the international space station now. But also the commercial services contract for the cargo station was intended to try and lower the cost of delivering a pound of cargo up into orbit. And so they went with a vehicle and a rocket engine that was very affordable.
COOPER: And Ken, I mean, there is food and stuff supplied, stockpiled for the space station. So there is not an immediate impact to this crash, correct?
BOWERSOX: That is right, Anderson. The last I heard they had four to six months reserves. The most likely and immediate impact would be some reduction and the ability to do the meaningful science experiments aboard the international space station. And it sounds like there is not going to be a huge reduction based on what I heard for the cargo manifest for the vehicle that was lost.
COOPER: Miles, the fact that NASA now relies on private companies like Orbital Sciences for these kinds of missions. What if anything does it say about the safety of the space program? Does it have -- does it say anything at all?
O'BRIEN: I don't think we know enough yet about this. This is an experiment in changing the way NASA does business. It is worth pointing out that NASA has always used the private sector to build its rockets, where there is Boeing and Lockheed Martin, or its predecessor corporations. It is just the way they did business with them. They were like on the factory floor telling them how to turn the nuts and bolts, and offering up specific safety requirements right there on site.
Now, instead, they're offering up a broad list of specifics, some safety guidelines and then just purchasing the vehicle at the end. So there is no reason to believe that is any more or less safe. We're just trying to figure it out in going along here. It is worth pointing out in all those years with NASA had all those strict requirements, they lost 14 shuttle crew members and they lost three people on the launch pad in the Apollo era. So it is dangerous, difficult business no matter which way you do it. And it is hard to say that this anymore less safe.
COOPER: And Ken, this is -- I mean, just the wave of the future. I mean, there are a ton of space companies now that are out there. I think of Elon Musk. I mean, this is only going to increase the privatization of all of this, isn't it?
BOWERSOX: Right, the idea is to move more and more responsibility over to the commercial sector. The real shift from say the shuttle program to commercial crew is the authority for the launch. NASA still pays, but some of the authority for actually launching a vehicle goes to the private party that is providing the service. And NASA's big decision now is whether or not to put their cargo in the future, their crews aboard the vehicles when it launches.
COOPER: Ken Bowersox, appreciate you being in the program. What an incredible career you have had. And I would love to talk to you more about at some point under better circumstances. Thanks so much for being with us.
Miles O'Brien, great to have you on, as always.
As always, you can find more on this and plenty of other related stories at CNN.com.
Coming up next, more on the people who are counting on supplies from last night's launched. What is life actually like up in that space station? A rare look when we return.
And later, perhaps the most down to earth story you will see tonight. Hawaii's river of malt in earth (ph) and the homes now directly in jeopardy.
COOPER: As we heard from astronaut on the former International Space Station resident Ken Bowersox before the break, the explosion of the unmanned rocket that was carrying supplies to it, really focuses new attention on the men and women, or orbiting more than 200 miles above us tonight. Crew of three Russians, two Americans and a German, they are 49 days into their mission, and while we're used to seeing live interviews with Space Station astronauts and cosmonauts and videos of their space walks, it is still a bit of a mystery what daily life is really like for them. Randi Kaye has been digging deeper on that.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The International Space Station orbits the Earth every 90 minutes, traveling about 17,500 miles per hour. It is an understatement to say the astronauts and cosmonauts on board enjoy a spectacular view. But daily life in lower earth orbit is hard work, and at times complicated. Even getting clean is a challenge. No shower here, instead, they use towels, wipes and a rinse-less shampoo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I take my no rinse shampoo, and rub it in. Again, going to working it up to the ends.
KAYE: On board this $100 billion research laboratory, there are never more than six crew members at a time. They stay for about six months, which can feel like an eternity living on pre-packaged food.
LEROY CHIAO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: We use a lot of the same items the military uses. The meals ready to eat, the MREs.
KAYE: Every so often, supply ships like the one that exploded this week bring fresh fruit and vegetables.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here (INAUDIBLE) our dinner table. It is a table for six, we don't have plates. Of course, we don't need plates in space because again, everything was just thrown away.
KAYE: There are no refrigerators in space, and salt and pepper only in liquid form, otherwise the particles would be airborne, clogging airvents or getting in an astronaut's eye. Peanut butter on a specially packaged tortilla is a space station staple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A weightless tortilla. OK. We got one tortilla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's going to ...
KAYE: Most of the day is spent working on science experiment that only a micro-gravity environment can provide. There are also medical experiments, which can judge how well their bodies adjust to life in space for long periods of time. Of course, sometimes there are space walks, otherwise it is more mundane stuff like what you might do at home back on Earth.
CHIAO: If you've got to change out some filters, you got - you know, light bulb is burned out. You got to go, take time to go, change the light bulbs out.
KAYE: And while you may be weightless in space, exercise is a must using equipment you won't find on Earth, like this treadmill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're attached by these strings. They are hardest to the system of hooks and bungee chords.
KAYE: If you are wondering about a bathroom break during the day, thanks to microgravity, using this tiny toilet is not easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And of course, you do have your privacy. There is a little door.
KAYE: Sleeping is easier, as long as the astronauts remember to tie down their sleeping bags. When the mission is complete, a Soyuz spacecraft brings them back to Earth. The return trip takes just three and a half hours. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I don't know what it feels like sleeping in space, that is crazy. Let's get the latest on other stories we are following. Susan Hendricks has "360" news and business. Susan?
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there is growing certainty among U.S. intelligence officials that U.S. airstrikes in Syria didn't take out two al Qaeda operatives that the attacks targeted. Multiple officials tell CNN the intelligence community believes those terrorist operatives are still alive and could be actively plotting.
And there were some tense moments in New Jersey today as a heckler faced off with Governor Chris Christie. The heckler was holding a sign criticizing the governor's response to Superstorm Sandy, which hit two years ago today. And he kept interrupting the Governor's speech, something you really don't want to do. Christie finally had enough. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R ), NEW JERSEY: So listen, you want to have the conversation later, I'm happy to have it buddy. But until that time, sit down and shut up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENDRICKS: After a short back and forth, the guy was led away.
And in Hawaii, the lava flow threatening a village is slowly inching closer to homes, the river of molten rock from the Kilauea volcano is moving at about 30 feet for hour and could reach homes in Pahoa in the next 24 hours. So far, there are no mandatory evacuation orders.
HENDRICKS: Scary stuff. Susan, thanks. Just ahead, Ferguson Missouri's police chief may step down in the wake of protest over police shooting of an unarmed teenager. What city officials are saying about that tonight, and the latest on the case next.
Also, we had a viral video shows the woman simply walking in New York City down the street, while over and over, more than 100 times, men she doesn't know comment on her looks, some even try to follow her getting her attention. One guy followed her for more than five minutes talking to her. It's an eye opening look. It's street harassment. I'll speak with the woman in the video.
COOPER: These people in Ferguson, Missouri and beyond, wait to find out whether police officer Darren Wilson will be charged in death of the teenager Michael Brown. We're getting word that the shooting and the unrest that followed may cost the police chief his job. Government officials tell CNN Chief Thomas Jackson is expected to step down as part of the city's effort to reform the police department. The chief, meanwhile, and the mayor say that is not true. More on that in a moment. Meanwhile, St. Louis prosecutors have dismissed five pending cases in which the officer Wilson was expected to testify as a witness. In a press release the prosecutor's office says that will not affect the presentation of evidence to grand jury that is deciding whether to charge Officer Wilson in the death of Michael Brown. CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now with the latest. So, you're reporting that the Ferguson police chief is going to be forced to step down. I know you'll be getting a lot of pushback on it. What is the latest tonight?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you know, no one wants the news of them getting ousted from their job before - to be made public before they're ready to make it public. So that is what some of the pushback is coming from. The plan remains for the Ferguson police chief Tom Jackson, to step down. We expect that the announcement could come as soon as next week. The issue is - the question is whether or not this is going to be enough for the people on the streets in Ferguson.
COOPER: And you're hearing that federal state and local officials are not seeing eye to eye on this?
PEREZ: They're not. You know, sort of like fear and loathing in Ferguson, you know. The feds, the locals and the state are all worried about the reaction on the street if there is not an indictment. None of them wants the blame, if that happens. We're told by sources that the state prosecutor had asked the federal government to do a joint press conference to announce the results of their joint - of the investigation, separate investigations. The federal government has rejected that. The Justice Department is afraid that it will undermine the argument that this is a separate and independent investigation, Anderson. And that is the gist of the argument right now.
COOPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks very much. Joining me now is Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Michael Brown's family. Mr. Crump, thanks for being with us. So Evan's report that the police chief is going to be forced to step down possibly as soon as next week, do you believe that that's something that would quell some of the frustration on the ground in Ferguson?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Well, Anderson, we believe that justice and due process for Michael Brown, Jr., will help to quell a lot of the unrest. But more importantly it will restore confidence that everybody gets equal justice in America. And that is what really is the frustrating part in Ferguson. People don't think Michael Brown is getting his due process.
COOPER: So just so I'm clear, though, have you called for or been encouraging the police chief to step down? Because there was obviously a lot of criticism of the way he released surveillance videos from the press conferences earlier on. Some of the information he didn't come forward with. And obviously, the way he has handled the police force. Is that something you have publicly called for? CRUMP: No, Anderson, the family has been focused and vigilant on
making sure that they get justice for their son, Michael Brown, Jr. And there is the attorney for the family on my legal team. We've just pushed that we have the police officer charged and that he's brought to trial.
COOPER: And in terms of how the family is doing, I mean there have been all of these leaks coming from -- well, a lot of people are pointing fingers right now about where they're actually coming from. But leaks about - things that have been coming - happening at the grand jury. How is the family feeling about these leaks?
CRUMP: Anderson, it is an emotional roller coaster. You would imagine, that's already emotional and these leaks are very troublesome to both Michael Brown's mother and father.
COOPER: "The Washington Post" as you know, reported about a week ago or so some details of Officer Wilson's account of what happened that day. Basically, that Michael Brown was the aggressor in the situation. The report also said that there were seven or eight African-American witnesses who backed up that account. Are you aware of these witnesses and what they did or didn't say that day?
CRUMP: Anderson, how do you vet a leak? How do you attack a leak? And I know several witnesses who testified before the grand jury. They reached out to us and say they think that people are trying to twist their words. And that is why we need transparency, Anderson, we need to have a trial by a jury based on the Constitution of the United States where it is very transparent and all the evidence and all the witnesses can be cross examined.
COOPER: You said the transparency, though, the - the prosecutors have said after the result from the grand jury that they will reveal all the evidence that was presented to the grand jury. So there is that transparency even if there is not a trial. Is that not enough?
CRUMP: Anderson, that's not - what this family wants is what any other family would want if their child was shot down in broad daylight. For the person to be charged for the evidence to come before a jury. And everybody can vet that evidence. It will be very transparent. And they have a representative to make sure they get their due process. And we want the police officer to have his day in court. Nobody is saying he is guilty until proven innocent. But we want to be able to challenge this police department. This prosecutor. As well as this medical examiner's office. And say this evidence does not purport what you're trying to make it purport.
COOPER: You and I have spoken from the beginning of this, I have spoken to Michael Brown's parents from the beginning of this. And all along, everybody on your side has said look, violence in the streets is not the solution here that takes the focus away from what happened to Michael Brown. How concerned are you about the reaction that has been going on, about what may happen if there is not an indictment?
CRUMP: Well, quite obviously, Anderson, people are frustrated in St. Louis and all over America, because they keep saying our children get killed over and over again. And nobody is held accountable. And swept under the rug. We encourage people to exercise their First Amendment rights, but we want you to do it in a constructive non- violent way. And we want you to turn this frustration into legislation by going to vote in a midterm election, and passing the Mike Brown law so we won't have this play out this way again, because if the police officers have got video camera, Anderson, it will be transparent. It will protect the officer if he did nothing wrong. But also it will give these families answers. And that's what they want - they want to know why their child was shot down in the middle of the street in broad daylight.
COOPER: Benjamin Crump, appreciate your being on. Thank you very much.
Up next, imagine if this was happening to your mom, your sister, your daughter, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, what's up, girl? How are you doing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A woman just walking down the street in New York, not making eye contact with anyone, just minding her own business, not showing any facial expressions. This all taken on the hidden camera. Millions of people have seen this video. The woman getting cat called, just walking through the streets of New York. The woman in the video, Shoshana Roberts got dozens of uninvited comments on that day. She got followed for five minutes by one guy who kept talking to her. She joins us next.
COOPE: Welcome back. Tonight, a viral video and the ugly vitriol it's triggered. The advocacy group Hollaback! Made the video to call attention to the harassment that many women face every day simply walking down the street. The idea was simple. An actor named Shoshanna Roberts walked around New York for ten hours behind a filmmaker with a camera hidden in his backpack. She had micro- secret microphones to recall what people said about her. Here is some of what she heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smile. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is up, beautiful, have a good day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what is up, girl? How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mile, I guess not good!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you this morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a nice evening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ms. Roberts was harassed more than 100 times that day. The video has been viewed more than 8 million times online, and also generated more than 40,000 comments, including rape threats against Ms. Roberts. I spoke to Shoshana Roberts a short time ago.
COOPER: I saw this video and I was really stunned. I mean, I have seen guys call out to women on the street. And it always amazes me that they do this. I don't know what they are thinking. If they think the woman wants this. What is the impact on you having guys do this all day long?
SHOSHANA ROBERTS: I mean, it is all day long. It is every day.
COOPER: What is in the video happens all the time?
ROBERTS: Yeah, that was a typical day. I said yeah, film me where I normally walk all over Manhattan.
COOPER: And you're wearing jeans, wearing a t-shirt.
ROBERTS: It doesn't matter what you wear.
COOPER: And your facial expression is not - you're not making eye contact with people. You're just walking down the street.
ROBERTS: My non-verbal cues were saying don't talk to me, no eye contact, no friendly demeanor, and I'm a very extroverted person. There are some days I walk down the street smiling and interacting with people, but they were ignoring my nonverbal cues. I clearly didn't want to be interacted with, and those situations can escalate so quickly. So I was thinking about that.
COOPER: And there is the guy who says something to you and then follows you for about five minutes.
ROBERTS: Yeah. COOPER: And it starts -- I can't even remember what it was he said.
I mean, does he think that --
ROBERTS: I don't know what they expect people to do. I mean, this is happening to so many women. And my story is not unique.
COOPER: I was trying to think how I would feel. I mean, people talk to me all day long because I'm on TV. Mostly it is about my work, they're not saying hey, nice ass, whatever. And what is the impact of that? Do you even know?
ROBERTS: I don't know for sure. But I know it's difficult mentally. It is difficult when my grandfather died and someone told me that they liked the way I looked. And it disrupts my daily life. I'm trying to memorize a monologue for an acting audition. And I have headphones in, and I'm looking at my cell phone or some such activity, and people still are trying to get me to look at them.
COOPER: Does it scare you ever?
ROBERTS: Oh, all the time.
COOPER: I mean, the guy following you, no matter what he is saying, it's scary.
ROBERTS: I have been in martial arts since I was nine, and I have a black belt in tae kwan do, I've trained in multiple forms of martial arts, and I'm scared.
COOPER: And I understand that since this has been posted, you have gotten threats. There had been guys who sent death threats, there have been guys who have written talking about rape?
ROBERTS: There are people who have said a lot of things, but I'm not reading what they're saying.
COOPER: To me, that is the subtext of some of these conversations on the street. It is that -- as some of these guys just like -- I can look at you up and down, I'm going to look at you up and down. I'm going to tell you what I think of you in specific detail. I'm going to follow you for however long I want to. Saying things under my breath or out loud and nobody is going to do anything about it.
ROBERTS: I mean.
COOPER: That is to me, the message of what these guys are doing.
ROBERTS: Yes, I agree with that. And it needs to stop. We can change hearts and minds.
COOPER: Well, Shoshana, thank you for being with us.
ROBERTS: Thank you so much.
COOPER: And coming up, an update from the where are they now files of early '90s alternative rock. The Ridiculist is next.
COOPER: Time now for the Ridiculist, and tonight I would like to invite you to come with me on a musical trip down memory lane. Not too far back, just about 20 years to when the shirts were flannel, the rock was alternative, and Smashing Pumpkins burst into the mainstream with their album, "Siamese Dream."
COOPER: All right, so maybe the guitar sound is a bit derivative of My Bloody Valentine, but that's beside the point. "Siamese Dream" came out in 1993 and sold six million copies worldwide and is listed on the Rolling Stone's 500 greatest albums of all time. Smashing Pumpkins made more records, but you really don't hear much about them much these days, until that is now. Because tonight, I'm happy to report that front man Billy Corgan is back and edgier than ever, on the cover of "Paws Chicago" magazine. I don't know if you can read the sub headline there, it says Billy Corgan's Siamese dream. Well played, "Paws Chicago," well played.
This is a kind of a jarring event, for a couple of reasons. One being that it made us Google what else Billy Corgan has been up to, and apparently just last year he was in a commercial for a Chicago furniture store.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY CORGAN, SMASHING PUMPKINS: That is a Walter E. Smithe chair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So perhaps Billy Corgan is I don't know, off his alternative rocker, but I think maybe there is more to this. Maybe he is being ironic, or maybe when the cool rock stars start doing less rock stary things, it kind of makes us face our own mortality. I want REM to stay just the way I know and love them. I don't want "Everybody Hurts" to suddenly be used in an Excedrin commercial. I don't ever want to see a product called Eddie Vedder's prune jam, and I don't want to see either Stephen Malkmus nor Tom York on the cover of AARP magazine. Although I have to say, Bruce Springsteen makes it look pretty good. And yes, that is a real cover, although I don't think he cooperated with it. Anyway, you know what? Maybe the Internet is the real problem here. There was a time that nobody outside Chicago would have ever seen the cover of "Paws Chicago" magazine. But nowadays, you can't even pose for a cover of WebMD magazine -- wait a minute, that is me on the cover of Web MD.
Okay, look, for the record, I have no memory of posing for the cover of WebMD. Although apparently I did. I gave an interview. I don't know what I was doing on the cover of it.
Anyway, let's move on. To the youngsters watching this on the Youtube, who have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry, one day 20 years from now you will see a picture of Iggy Azalia at a Joann Fabric and you'll get used to it. Until then, to the pinnacles of cool from days gone by, do what you got to do. You'll always have a rock and roll in our hearts on the ridiculous. That does it for us. We'll see you again 11:00 p.m. Eastern for another edition of 360.
"SOMEBODY'S GOTTA DO IT" starts now.