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Dr. Drew
Honey Boo Boo Family Scandal Explodes; Missing Denver Broncos Fan Found Alive
Aired October 29, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, GUEST HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the Honey Boo Boo family scandal explodes.
MAMA JUNE: Life throws some crazy things at you.
SCHACHER: Hear from Mama June and her daughter Anna.
Plus, street harassment video goes viral.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn! Damn!
SCHACHER: The woman at the center of it is here, live.
DR. DREW ON CALL starts right now.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Good evening. I`m Sam Schacher, filling in for Dr. Drew. I`m joined by Mike Catherwood, Dr. Drew`s "Loveline" co-host.
Mike, that missing Denver Bronco`s fan has been found alive.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, LOVELINE: Yes, it`s crazy. What a bizarre story. He disappeared Thursday night at half time of the Denver Bronco`s game.
We`re going to hear from his family later tonight.
SCHACHER: Wow. But, first, Honey Boo Boo`s oldest sister Anna was molested when she was 8. Her abuser is out of jail and allegedly back in
the arms of his former lover, Mama June. We`ll hear from Anna and Mama June in just a moment. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAMA JUNE: If you watch the show, we are a very loving family. Don`t get me wrong --
DR. DREW PINSKY: TLC has now cancelled "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" when a report surfaced that Mama June is dating a convicted sex offender.
MAMA JUNE: Life throws some crazy things at you.
PINSKY: Radar Online reports that Mama June began a relationship with this man over a decade ago.
SCHACHER: So June Shannon as most of you know as Mama June has posted a denial on the Honey Boo Boo website.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How desperate and stupid does a mother have to be to date a convicted child molester?
SCHACHER: I`m really concerned about this 20-year-old, Dr. Drew, who now has to see her mother parade around with her perpetrator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wants the world to know that she feels betrayed, that her mother has let the child molester back into her life.
SCHACHER: She was forced to give him oral sex, Dr. Drew, that was the charge at 8 years old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHACHER: Wow, those pictures are from TMZ. Mama June`s video is from Facebook. Anna is now 20. Here`s what she tells "Entertainment
Tonight`s" Nischelle Turner. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA: I`m mad, I`m upset. I feel betrayed and I just feel -- I feel very hurt. That`s the main thing, I feel very hurt that mama let him come
around.
NISCHELLE TURNER, ET: You feel like she chose a child molester over you?
ANNA: Yes, and she`s happy. She was smiling and laughing and giggling when he`s around, knowing the fact, you know, that he`s a child
molester, mama. He did this to me. Why would you let him come around the girls knowing what he did?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Wow.
Joining us, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator and host of "The Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, Mark Eiglarsh from SpeaktoMark.com,
Danielle Robay, TV host and reporter.
And on the phone, ET`s Nischelle Turner, who interviewed Anna.
Michelle, tell us, is Anna angry, sad? What are her emotions right now?
TURNER: All of the above, Pam. She`s a confused young woman at this point.
Like you heard her say just a moment ago, her biggest question is why? She has a lot of why questions. Why did her mother never believe her when
she told her at 8 years old that this man was doing this to her? Why all these years at her mother continued to not believe her. Why is her mother
never really talk to her about this? And now, why is this man back in the picture and back around her little sister?
SCHACHER: Right. Now, Nischelle, has Anna had any contact with Mama June, do you know?
TURNER: She has had contact with her. I mean, they`ve had numerous conversations about what`s going on. Anna told me when she first saw the
photos, of course, she confronted her mother about this and her mother denied that they were dating. But she did say the man had been around and
around the kids, which is in contradiction to the most she put on Facebook. She definitely said they had been spending time together.
She let her daughter, this is Anna I`m talking about, let her daughter spend some time with her mother about a week and a half ago. This was
before all of this really kind of hit. So, I asked her, was this man around your 2-year-old daughter? She said she didn`t know and she`s afraid
of that now.
SCHACHER: Right. OK. Well, Mama June reportedly split from Honey Boo Boo`s biological father, Mike "Sugar Bear" Thompson, in September, but
Splash News just captured in this photo.
Mike, they look happy. I mean, is this a publicity stunt? What is your reaction?
CATHERWOOD: J just feel so sorry, after all of this, I feel so sorry for Anna because even though she`s a grown adult now and she has her own
family, you look to your parents above and beyond anything to protect you. To have someone who betrayed you and who broke the boundaries that we all
live in so egregiously by molesting her, to be brought back into the family circle by none other than her mother -- I mean, she must be going through
utter emotional torment.
SCHACHER: Yes, it`s further revictimizing her.
Leeann, you always speak from the heart of a mom. So, please, what is your reaction to this story?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, look, I think Mama June should have all her children taken away from her. I mean, first of all,
she doesn`t believe her daughter. She didn`t believe her when she was 8 years old. The man went to prison for 10 years for molesting her daughter
and now, she`s back with him when he gets out of jail? So, I mean, of course, she`s being revictimized.
Now, is Nischelle still on the phone? Just curious.
SCHACHER: Do we have Nischelle on the phone, control room?
OK. We`re going to get her back. Hold on to your question, Leeann.
TWEEDEN: OK.
SCHACHER: Mark, in response to what Leeann just said, there are reports that CPS is now involved. So, should Mama June`s other children be
removed from her care as Leeann suggested?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: I would say definitely maybe. Let`s sit down with her and increase her level of awareness and explain to her the
impact of when a mother doesn`t believe her own daughter who clearly was abused. Generically, we know abuse victims are 60 percent more likely to
commit juvenile offenses and 30 percent more likely to commit offenses as an adult. You add in there that the parent doesn`t believe the child,
society and that girl are going to deal with a whole host of negative problems.
SCHACHER: OK. We have Nischelle on the phone, rather. Danielle, do you have any questions for her, and then Leeann?
DANIELLE ROBAY, REPORTER: I think that child molestation is a compulsive behavior, so there`s a high rate of recidivism, as Mark said.
The fact that Mama June let this man 100 feet from her front door is despicable to me.
SCHACHER: Right. Yes, Leeann, you had a question for Nischelle.
TWEEDEN: Yes, Nischelle, I`m just curious, with Anna, when she came for the interview, what was with her support group? Who was with her? Is
somebody supporting her that`s either a distant family member? Who was with her when she came to your interview?
TURNER: She was with her husband and her 2-year-old daughter Caitlin. She said, you know, she`s been having a really hard time. TLC offered her
counseling. She hadn`t taken them up on it yet, but she was going to. But, you know, she admitted that a lot of her family and a lot of friends
are asking her, why would you open your mouth and start to talk about this and put your business out there and let everybody know?
And she said, you know, because I don`t want this to happen to someone else. There may be another little girl out there who has it done to them,
who feels afraid and like they`ve done something wrong. She felt like she needed to speak up about it. Her husband definitely supported her about
it, but she said he`s been on the fence about her talking, but he just didn`t want her to have to relive all this.
TWEEDEN: Is it true she`s never been through any counseling up into this point, ever even when she was 8?
SCHACHER: She has not.
TURNER: She did talk to her school counselor about it. That`s who she told originally.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: As far as formal counseling? No.
SCHACHER: Yes. And also, Mama June denies she`s having a relationship with Mark Anthony Daniel and posted this on her Facebook,
quote, "It isn`t true. I promised my kids are my number one priority and I would never put them in danger. They are my life. This is my path. I
left him 10 years ago and I wouldn`t go back."
OK, Mark, you`re having a reaction to this. And then, Mike, I want to hear from Mike after this.
EIGLARSH: OK, number one priority? If they`re your number one priority, regardless of whether you brought the man into your life again, I
don`t care about that. You sit down with your daughter and say, honey, I failed you. I didn`t believe you, because I was just whatever, eating too
much spaghetti with ketchup, whatever the hell that woman eats.
SCHACHER: Right.
EIGLARSH: But now, I believe you and I`m sorry. What can I do to make this right?
SCHACHER: Exactly. And, Mike, you have a daughter now. What would you do? Can you imagine ever exposing your daughter into an environment
where she`s been harmed?
CATHERWOOD: All kidding aside, I truly can`t. And I -- I`m not trying in any way to defend this man`s behavior. Child molestation, child
abuse is the most despicable thing anyone can do. But he served his time.
He served his punishment in the eyes of the law. And the one who is the most reprehensible person involved in this situation is Mama June for
even thinking about allowing this person back into her life.
Frankly, I`m surprised that someone as elegant and composed as Mama June would be involved with a scum bag like this. It was out of left
field.
SCHACHER: All right. Tell us how you really feel, Mike.
OK, coming up next, we`ll hear more from Mama June and Anna.
And later, straight harassment. The actress who appears in this video gone viral. There is she is. She`s also received rape threats, you guys.
You`re watching DR. DREW ON CALL. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAMA JUNE: We have fun with what we do. I mean, especially filming the show. I mean, who doesn`t, you know, fart? Who doesn`t burp?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June is no boo boo herself. The woman is very smart.
MAMA JUNE: This experience will help the future of Alana because a lot of the money is put like in trust funds.
SCHACHER: I don`t care if she`s the smartest person in the room, I don`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being smart and doing dumb things don`t go hand in hand.
ANNA: He`s a child molester, mama. He did this to me. Why would you let him come around the girls knowing what he did?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once a child molester, always a child molester. Those urges never go back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHACHER: Yikes!
Welcome back. I`m Sam Schacher, filling for Dr. Drew. My co-host is Mike Catherwood.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist and professor at Pepperdine University, Spirit, host of "The Daily
Helpline", and Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst and former Secret Service special agent.
CATHERWOOD: Damn.
SCHACHER: Now, I know, there`s a lot to say. I got through it, though.
Court documents revealed Mama June`s former live-in boyfriend Mark Anthony McDaniel began abusing her 8-year-old daughter Anna in 2002. He
pled guilty to aggravated child molestation and spent ten years in prison, you guys.
We`re asking you if Mama June should lose custody of 9-year-old Honey Boo Boo? Right now 91 percent of you have responded on Facebook and said
Honey Boo Boo should be removed from the home.
Wow. Spirit, do you agree with our viewers?
SPIRIT, THE DAILY HELPLINE: Well, you know, the bottom line is, it`s not just about one child. It`s every child that`s in there. Yes, I hear
everybody say the man has done his time, but we don`t know what type of services he received when he was doing his time. We don`t know where he is
with treatment.
So, for me, this is a whole different issue. I would say she definitely needs to have some type of intervention. Somebody needs to come
in and do some assessments, for sure.
SCHACHER: Yes, I agree. And, Mike, you`ve been perusing our Facebook accounts. What kind of comments do you have?
CATHERWOOD: Yes, yes, from Facebook, Ann writes, "Any person, parent or otherwise, who chooses to have a relationship to a pedophile should
never have custody of any child at any time."
And then Pamela writes in saying, "I don`t believe June would date that man, knowing he did such a horrific thing to one of her daughters. It
sounds like someone is having sour grapes toward June and purposely causing trouble for her. I wish them all well."
I`m not shocked that there is some type of an abusive situation going on in that household. I`m not someone who`s ever watched that show. But
from what I`ve seen, the entire show is based around Mama June exploiting her children and kind of playing up and aggrandizing these rather abusive
and rather dysfunctional situations so we can all sit around and laugh.
You know, I have to give a lot of props to TLC for pulling the show, even though it`s not at its rating high, it`s still somewhat profitable for
the network and they had the wherewithal to take it off from the air.
SCHACHER: They dismissed the whole season. That was in the can. So, good for them.
Judy, I want to go to you, because -- in response to what Mike said, I mean, what has your whole take been on this whole situation?
JUDY HO, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: Well, Mike is right. You know, a mother is not in her right mind if she started to put her own priorities
over her child. So, this is somebody that wants to continue to have a relationship with somebody who has been seen to damage not only her own
child but also the rest of society.
So, this is a huge concern for me. Now, I don`t think all pedophiles are alike, however. There are some where there is a genetic predisposition
and there`s nothing you can do about it, and they may not even be treatable.
But then, what about that group, Sam, the group that was abused and that`s why they developed pedophilia? Or even they developed it because
there was an association to a sexual object? For example, they were masturbating, as they`re about like to complete the masturbation, some
child walks in. They associate that with a sexual pleasure.
Like these things are documented to happen, and our treatments are designed around that to de-associate those issues. So, I don`t want to put
it out there that all pedophiles are not treatable. I just don`t know about this one.
SCHACHER: Evy, do you think a pedophile can be rehabilitated?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT: I think of all the offenders out there, they are the ones that are least likely to be
treated. That`s why we have this sex offender registry because of that.
I want to bring up something. There was something -- a study done, by a foundation, it was 21-year study, and they actually tested this theory
about pedophiles who had been abused themselves. And 67 percent of them said, you know what, yes, I`d been abused as a child. That`s why I`m
committing this act.
Then they gave them polygraphs and they find out that only 29 percent had actually been abused.
The reason is this, that pedophiles would give this as a justification, it would make everybody feel better, look, I committed this
bad act because I was abused myself. Overall, the issue is this, that is what they are naturally attracted to. The way somebody is attracted to a
man or to a woman, they are attracted to children.
So, it`s very, very difficult to treat them.
SCHACHER: Oh, Wow. Spirit, do you agree?
SPIRIT: And this is a thing, though -- can I say this?
SCHACHER: Please?
SPIRIT: Pedophile or no pedophile, this is the pedophile that molested your child. This is not somebody that was rehabilitated and then
went back into society, and you didn`t know them then.
He molested your child. If anything, she should -- the law should be keeping her away from him, because she should want to kill this man. So,
the idea that she is now back lived up with him and her children are there, not only is she re-victimizing her daughter, but she`s sending the wrong
message to all of her children, to let them know that they are all expendable and above all things, mom`s desire for this man is what comes
first.
SCHACHER: Evy, I see you jumping out of your chair. Have at it.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, you know what? I`ve worked a lot of these, I`ve actually interviewed many sex offenders -- child sex offenders. What
happens is, there`s so many mothers like Honey Boo Boo`s mother. I hate to say that.
Sometimes even the mothers help facilitate the act itself onto their children. They allow the offenders to do this because they don`t want to
lose that companion. It`s very sad. It`s a chronic, chronic problem we have here in the United States and other places in the world, as well.
PINSKY: But, Judy, why? I can`t wrap my head around it? How can you help us viewers and myself understand why a mother would put her child in
harm`s way, I guess in a clinical way?
HO: Well, Sam, it`s such a good question, because as Evy says, this happens more often than we know.
And what we do know about mothers and fathers who do this is that they really have a lot of insecurities themselves. They have needs that have
never been met. They feel very insecure about their ability to attract a partner. So, they`re afraid to let that go.
And because of that, it clouds their judgment so that even when their child is in the picture, they will make up all kinds of excuses to be able
to stay in this relationship and to continue to receive that romantic attention.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh.
OK, well, we have a note. Please, I want you guys to take note. Catch Nischelle`s full interview with Anna tomorrow on Entertainment
Tonight.
And next, the football fan who vanished during half time at a Denver Bronco`s game has been found alive. We`ll hear from his family, from his
strange disappearance. I mean, five days, it`s crazy.
Later, this video has been all over my Facebook page today. She`s here. I have a lot of questions for her.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were looking everywhere, parking lots, in the trees, bushes, anywhere we could think of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Denver Broncos fan Paul Kitterman was last seen Thursday night waiting outside a bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His son left his seat to use the restroom. He comes back, his dad is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were there until 1:30 in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a rancher, he liked to be alone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn`t have any credit cards on him. No cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are hearing now that Kitterman has just been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s found, not heading back home, but another 116 miles away in Pueblo, Colorado. The question, what was he doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is, again, as you said, where has he been all this time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently, a passer-by spotted him in the parking lot walking, called police. He tells them that he left the stadium
because he, quote, "had had his fill of football." He wanted to go for a walk to somewhere warmer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paul is one of the most loyal, responsible people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHACHER: OK. I`m Samantha Schacher, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight.
Back with me, Mike, Leeann, Mark and Danielle.
Paul Kitterman disappeared from a Denver Broncos game Thursday night and showed up in a Kmart parking lot yesterday. It`s more than 100 miles
from the stadium, and 200 miles from his home.
CATHERWOOD: How is this news? Raiders fans live at halftime every week, and people -- they go -- they disappear and they never show up again.
SCHACHER: I don`t know what to say to that one because I`m a Raiders fan.
CATHERWOOD: Of course, you are.
SCHACHER: Here`s a map. He claims he walked and hitchhiked all that way.
I mean, Leeann, what do you think happened?
TWEEDEN: I mean, obviously, things aren`t adding up in this story. I was sick of football, I just wanted to take a walk.
Yet, we know now he`s told the police that he would hide and sleep in the bushes on the side of the road. He took off his Broncos hat because he
didn`t want to be recognized.
I think we need to look at his history. I read online that he had some money problems. There were some other things going on. I think he
might be getting a divorce. So, let`s look a little further.
CATHERWOOD: Wait, so he`s getting a divorce? So, he`s still currently married?
TWEEDEN: These are things that I was reading online --
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: Yes, he`s a married man, so he wants to go for a walk? Makes a lot of sense. You know how many lies I`ve made up when I just
flat-out don`t want to deal with my family. Oh, I need to go get some more milk.
SCHACHER: Your wife is so lucky.
Mark, please?
EIGLARSH: Samantha --
SCHACHER: Yes?
EIGLARSH: Yes, we can`t overlook the obvious. The first question, when I read about this story was, who in their right mind would just leave
their loved ones and go for a 100-mile walk? And not even camouflage yourself. You`re literally walking along.
So, the answer is generally no one in their right mind would do that.
SCHACHER: Well, Mike Catherwood obviously would.
EIGLARSH: Look into his mental state.
SCHACHER: Right. Other than Mike Catherwood would.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I mean, it`s not like -- it`s not as if he`s gone and done these terrible things. He just disappeared. I`m more concerned
about his own kind of well-being. I mean, it`s not as if he went to find his mistress or he went to commit a murder.
TWEEDEN: We don`t know that.
SCHACHER: We don`t know.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: We don`t know that. We don`t know that he actually walked, Mark. We actually don`t know that.
SCHACHER: Right. Here`s what he had on him, though. OK? So, he had no cell phone, he had no credit cards, no car.
TWEEDEN: Which is interesting.
SCHACHER: And only $50 in cash.
So, Danielle, how do you make it five days in 100 miles with practically nothing?
ROBAY: Everybody is so confused. If this happened after the Super Bowl last year, not only would this make more sense, but I would think the
guy was Peyton Manning.
And also, I just can`t believe that he walked for five days. There`s something psychologically wrong. And ended up in a Kmart, like I would end
up at a spa, not a Kmart.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. You know what it is, Nancy Grace warned us about this, people. Now that there`s legal marijuana in Colorado, he smoked too
much and he forgot where he lives. Nancy Grace was right. It`s reefer madness all over again.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: Samantha, though, I don`t know -- the Facebook page that they had for him, his family, like let`s help find our dad, all of a
sudden, disappeared and the family is like, please respect our privacy. We don`t want to talk about it. So, that makes me think something fishy is
going on here.
SCHACHER: Mark?
EIGLARSH: Well, here`s the other thing. If this was intentional, we had category A. A was there`s something wrong with him psychologically.
He needs treatment, he needs help.
But if this is B, and he went through great lengths to simply take a walk and disappear, knowing that law enforcement, we`re going the devote
precious resources to finding him, I think at a minimum, he should be held responsibly civilly and pay back the money. But the bigger picture is,
when someone goes missing, you remember cases like this. Well, maybe, they`re not really missing. Maybe they just went for a long walk.
SCHACHER: We do have somebody from law enforcement on the phone. Joining us is Sheriff Richard Jones, law enforcement expert.
Sheriff, what`s your theory on this whole bizarre situation?
RICHARD JONES, SHERIFF (via telephone): I`m going to say, I`m with you, guys, there`s more to this story than what we`re hearing, actually.
And it does make a mockery of the system. As an adult, you can`t just -- you can legally disappear from your family for five days, but if you`re
hiding out, I seen pictures of the guy on TV. I doubt he walked over 100 miles in five days.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
JONES: I don`t know that a soldier could walk that much and is trained. But seeing the picture on TV, and he had five beers, and the
family supposedly said -- he didn`t walk over 100 miles in five days. And there`s more to this story. And it does make a mockery of the system. As
an adult in this country, you have a responsibility to your family and to the law enforcement, and it`s not funny.
SCHACHER: I hear you.
JONES: His family, they went on these shows, the Nancy Drew (sic) show, they had all these law enforcement. They had all this attention.
CATHERWOOD: First things first, Sheriff, can we get a side by side of the picture we have of you and of this man? I think we`ve actually found
him.
(LAUGHTER)
CATHERWOOD: Are you guys related? You`re trying to play a prank on us?
JONES: Hey, you guys are hard on me. I could walk --
CATHERWOOD: I love the Nancy Drew show.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Mike, we want him to be invited back here.
CATHERWOOD: I apologize. Sheriff, in all honesty, have you ever run across something like this before or is this something totally new for you,
Sheriff?
JONES: We have people that go missing and we find them a few blocks down the road, especially with teenagers. But if it was a critically
missing, naturally we take the paperwork and we look even more harsh and more hard. For kids, they run away and they go to their friend`s house.
But still we have an Amber Alert system. But you`re absolutely correct, when people come on and they say somebody`s missing, like this instance
here, it makes a mockery. It makes people not pay attention.
SCHACHER: Sheriff, we have to go. I`m sorry to interrupt. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Next, the behavior bureau is back with its take on this bizarre story.
And later, she walked city streets for ten hours recording men`s reactions to her. She`s here and she will tell us why she did it. You`re
watching Dr. Drew on call. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was super excited, just amazed. I mean, even just the size of the place, we were super excited.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just not characteristic of Paul. Paul is like one of the most loyal, responsible people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that he would leave, no. But he probably was a little nervous with 75,000 people around him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s absolutely out of the ordinary. Doesn`t make any sense. Nothing adds up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: I`m Samantha Schacher, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight with my co-host, Mike Catherwood. A 53-year-old Broncos fan missing for five
days, turns up 112 miles from where he was last seen. Cops say he was quote, medically sound, but his worried family calls him fragile. We`re
back with the behavior bureau. Judy, Spirit and Evy. Evy, what do you think?
POUMPOURAS: Of course, you want to hook at the obvious, his mental health, but I`m on the -- I agree with Leeann in the previous block. I
think there`s something going on. Everyone is concerned, everyone is out there, and then they find him and it`s like, OK, please respect our
privacy. We don`t want to talk about this right now. I`m thinking more or less something happened, he was angry with a family member, which does
happen, and a lot of juveniles do this, and say you know what, I`m mad at you, I`ll show you. I`m thinking there is something a little bit odd
there. I`m hoping it`s not a mental issue, but I`m leaning towards the latter.
CATHERWOOD: Evy, in your professional opinion though, is there any chance, we`ve heard some rumblings that he`s having financial problems.
He`s looking to get a divorce. Could he be trying to pretend to be dead or disappear completely to avoid --
POUMPOURAS: I hear what you`re saying. If it were me, I would take more than $50 with me just for that. But the only reason -- he didn`t seem
to take a lot with me. Obviously the fact that you brought up that he`s having marital issues, I think that has something to do with what`s going
on at home. I really do. He got mad, he got peeved, and he`s like, I`ll show you. I think he`s trying to send a message. That`s my assessment.
SCHACHER: He`s only 53. Could he have some sort of dementia?
HO: I`m so glad you brought that up, Sam, because really, his symptoms fit very well with a very little known illness called dissociative
fugue. What these individuals, they have temporary dementia, they have temporary memory problems where they actually forget who they are, wander
far away from where they are from without telling anybody, without any I.D. or any cash or credit cards, which is exactly what this man did. Now, what
causes these types of temporary amnesias? Most of it is stress. So like Mike said, he`s going through some very, very significant stressors right
now, and sometimes people really react this way.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: You`re also giving Mike an excuse now, because I see him grinning from ear to ear. Are you going to be using that temporary
amnesia?
CATHERWOOD: It`s funny that Judy of all people brought it up. I had a temporary fugue the last break because she was talking about masturbation
and seeing her the way she`s looking, talking about masturbation. My mind got all like -- I couldn`t even think straight. I forgot where I was. I
forgot who you were.
SCHACHER: There is no sensor with you. There is absolutely no filter. We are on national television.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: Your dad -- your dad who is mad at me, still?
SCHACHER: Yes, my dad is still mad at you. Spirit, don`t make me sick him on you, trust me. Spirit, do you think this is his way of going
through a middle age crisis, what is your take on this?
SPIRIT: At the end of the day, at minimum we`re talking mid life crisis here. I tend to think that Dr. Judy is probably right with some
type of fugue that`s happening here, but the reaction of the family is what is really at the heart of something is wrong here. Because if you wander
off and then all of a sudden you find yourself somewhere else, the family is not going to just say simply give us privacy. If you have these kind of
blackouts where you go, I don`t remember. Where am I? How did I get here? I`m thinking there was some hitchhiking going on here. There was some
roaming around that was going on here. He knew what he was doing and he chose a football game to kind of dump off everybody else and get back to
what he was trying to do.
SCHACHER: Evy?
POUMPOURAS: I have a question for Dr. Judy with regard to this possible situation, having this disorder, it doesn`t seem though from the
research we`ve done that he`s had this happen to him before. Can this just happen like that automatically? I don`t think he has a history of this.
HO: Absolutely, Evy. That`s a great question. With this particular disorder, you don`t need a history. For some people, they only have it
once in their lifetimes. It`s kind of like an extreme stress reaction. And maybe other people can react with a panic attack or get really
depressed. This is a little known type of illness where somebody will react to an extreme stressor by having dissociative amnesia.
SCHACHER: Let me tell you what Kitterman told the cops. He mentioned he was sleeping in treed areas and in bushes during his journey to Pueblo
and even mentioned disposing of his Broncos hat as he did not want to be be recognized. Mike, he did not want to be recognized.
CATHERWOOD: I`m saying for him to get that far in that short a time, he had to do some hitchhiking, and he had to earn his keep. And you know
what they say, ass, grass or cash. No one rides for free, Sam Schacher.
SCHACHER: Ass, grass or cash?
CATHERWOOD: I`m just saying he might have lost his Broncos hat when he was turning it backwards to provide a little services, you know what I`m
saying?
SCHACHER: I walked into that one, OK. So coming up next, meet the woman who stars in this video. There she is. She`ll tell us why it`s
generating such a reaction online.
CATHERWOOD: Nice boobs.
SCHACHER: This is exactly what we`re going to be talking about. You`re watching Dr. Drew on call. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: I`m Samantha Schacher sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight with my co-host Mike Catherwood and Spirit, Mark and Leann. The woman you just
saw walked through New York City for ten hours with a hidden camera and two microphones. She was cat-called more than 100 times. Lots of you think
she should take that as a compliment. Mike, should she?
CATHERWOOD: Definitely.
SCHACHER: What do you mean?
CATHERWOOD: Listen, I`m in no way trying to encourage men to abuse women, to verbally assault them. But saying have a nice night, mommy, and
damn when she walks by is not exactly assault or harassment.
SCHACHER: OK. But this is happening over and over. At that point, yes, once in a while you`re going to get the sincere, hope you have a good
day. But that doesn`t happen that often, Mike. Most of the time they`re viewing her as a piece of meat. I`ve had it happen to me.
CATHERWOOD: Of course you had.
SCHACHER: How many on this panel -- Leann and Spirit, have you guys had this happen to you while you`re walking down the street?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, especially in New York City.
SCHACHER: How does it make you feel? I`ve been actually assaulted. I had a guy one time grab my ass so hard he lifted me up off the ground
after he walked by me. I kicked him in the balls.
EIGLARSH: I apologize for that, Samantha.
SCHACHER: This is prevalent, you guys.
TWEEDEN: I didn`t see that in this video. I don`t think this is what that girl was dealing with. She was getting God bless, hello, how are you,
and she was walking down the street, not smiling at all. You heard the one guy go, what, you`re not going to smile, you are not going to acknowledge
me? It`s almost hike she was -- not saying she was asking for it, but the way her body language was, when I`m walking down the street in New York,
when I`m there filming, I look at people and kind of smile and just keep on walking. I didn`t see anybody really doing anything wrong here.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Mark, you disagree. Let`s hear what you have have to say. Mark?
EIGLARSH: I do. If our goal is for gender equality, okay? Our goal is gender equality, this doesn`t happen to guys unless I`m shirtless on
South Beach. This happens primarily to women. OK? And yes, while some of the comments were fairly innocuous and arguably nice, some of them were
just downright rude, and I would argue it was like stalking. One guy followed her for like five minutes. She was actually nervous at one point.
So you know what? I think if it causes women to have to change their route and/or their jobs and/or neighborhoods, it becomes a problem we need to
address.
SCHACHER: I agree. We actually have to pause really quickly, Mike. Hold that thought, hold your tongue. We actually have the woman here
that`s in the video. She`s actress Shoshana Roberts. She joins us on the phone. Shoshana, what do you say to people who say you should have just
ignored them?
SHOSHANA ROBERTS: I say that the intonation and the implied ideas that they have say a lot more. They have ulterior motives. These are not
people--
CATHERWOOD: It`s not implied. Let`s get it straight, those guys probably want to have sex with you. But does that make it wrong?
SCHACHER: But you don`t know what it feels like.
CATHERWOOD: I sure do, I walk down Santa Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood and guys make cat calls at me all the time. It happens.
SCHACHER: Shoshana, are you surprised by how many people think you should have taken the cat calls as a compliment? You heard Mike earlier
say that you should have.
ROBERTS: This just happens way too often. It`s how I feel about it. And I`m a very friendly, bubbly person. I walk down the street most days
smiling, with open, broad shoulders. I am making eye contact, talking with people, saying hello back and forth. But you have to look at how someone
is acting. I clearly did not want to be talked to. I`ve been harassed right after my grandfather died. I`ve been harassed wearing what you would
call modest clothing on may way to a religious function. I mean, it`s ridiculous.
SCHACHER: Do you have any questions for Shoshana?
SPIRIT: Well, this is my thing. We`ve got to talk about communication. We have to talk about culture and conditioning. We`re
always communicating, and communication is 90 percent nonverbal. I`m curious, she said she`s harassed no matter what. Do you think that what
you had on, Shoshana, had any difference in the way that people were looking at you and talking to you?
ROBERTS: It doesn`t matter what you wear. These people, and you`re right, what you were saying about the verbal versus nonverbal --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disagree with you there.
ROBERTS: (inaudible), that was just one day. I mean, Rob Listig (ph) edited it and Hollaback, they put it out there, and we only put out two
minutes. It`s a small snippet. And it doesn`t even--
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Final thought.
CATHERWOOD: I`m not trying to refute your argument at all. But to say that it doesn`t matter what you wear is just asinine. It puts holes in
your entire argument.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Everybody, we have to go, we have to go. Thank you, Shoshana, for joining us. I really appreciate it. And I commend you,
girl.
Next, back with the panel after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCHACHER: I`m Samantha Schacher sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight with my co-host, Mike Catherwood. Spirit, Mark and Leanna are back. We`re
talking about the woman who walked through New York with a hidden camera, recording more than 100 cat calls shouted at her. Take a look at some of
our comments from our Facebook page. Lisa says, quote, "where I come from, it`s being friendly. Holly says, quote, "since when do attractive women
owe strangers a conversation? They`re not saying good morning or how are you because they really care, they are hoping they got a shot." Mark, do
guys really think women will fall for that?
EIGLARSH: No, in fact -- well, maybe. Not me. I watched this video in horror, because I don`t cat call. So I was watching these guys, and I`m
thinking they would only be doing that because occasionally they`ll say hey, baby, I love what`s down below, and a girl, apparently not this one or
you, Samantha, would go, really, you really like what`s in my trunk? Let`s go have sex, your place or mine? Apparently that must happen if these guys
are doing it over 100 times.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: We had that conversation off the air about trying--
SCHACHER: You know what? I will have the producer cut your mike, honestly.
Can I really quickly respond? I just saw a tweet mention the whole smile thing. It really irritates me when you`re at a Starbucks and you`re
walking down the street and somebody tells you, smile. It`s awkward if you`re standing there with a big smile on your face. I don`t think people
should tell us to smile, and some people really do just have (inaudible) bitch face. They do. So Leeann?
TWEEDEN: You know, to me when I hear cat calling, I don`t think what a lot of those guys were doing was cat calling. To me cat calling when I
was younger were guys whistling and yo mommy, clapping their hands, trying to get you to turn around and clucking at you. God bless, and oh, you`re
beautiful when you`re walking by, do not offend me. Yes, the guy walking by her for five minutes, very creepy. That`s obvious. But for a lot of
it, I`m not offended by it. It`s human nature. Guys are going to say hey, beautiful, good morning. They`re not going to have a chance. I`m not
offended by it. They didn`t put her hands on her. Let it go.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I hear you, but I`m offended by it, because I think if you do say, you know what? I don`t feel like talking or if you do respond in a
way where even if it`s a kind way and you`re not following it up, they do get angry with you.
(CROSSTALK)
SPIRIT: She didn`t say anything. She didn`t say anything. We`re not giving men a break here. This is what I mean by that. We also have to
remember that men are taught to be the aggressors. They are taught to pursue us. So you have to also look at this age group. That`s why I said
culture. You`re talking about young men in New York City. This is a culture of hey, baby, how are you doing? Wow, you look great. Perhaps
they are not doing it in a way that we would find appropriate, but it`s culturally acceptable in this way. We also have to look at the message
that she`s sending. She said she didn`t think her clothes mattered. Trust me, it does. If she had on a baseball cap, if she was fully covered, and
her clothes weren`t that tight fitting, it wouldn`t necessarily be the same kind of response.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: But Mark, quickly, do you think that we`re asking the wrong questions here? Why does it have to be attacking her? Why can`t it be --
why can`t these men not see her as -- I`m not specifically saying you, but some of our Facebook comments, as well. So, Mark, please, quickly, if you
can respond to that, because I know you defended her.
EIGLARSH: The short version is, the short version is, certain comments and certain activities like stalking her for a couple of blocks,
that`s unacceptable.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: We`ve got to go. Thanks to Mike Catherwood. DBRS (ph) next.
END
