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Nurse Hickox Rides a Bike; Maine Mulls Seeking Judicial Order to Force Her Quarantine; Christie Takes on Heckler; Plane Crashes into Building at Wichita Airport; Security Concerns over Russian Warplanes

Aired October 30, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: She breached the quarantine. The bike ride in the middle of a battle over Ebola, the nurse who treated Ebola patients in West Africa and was ordered to stay inside the house is on the move this morning. What are the authorities going to do about it?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: NATO jets scramble as Russian military planes get caught sneaking into European air space. What's the Kremlin up to now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Sit down and shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Political oratory at its highest level. Is the sit down and shut up version of Chris Christie, though, the one that could be president?

Hello everyone. I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: Oh, my, we have some things to discuss today, don't we?

I'm Michaela Pereira. Those stories and much more ahead @THISHOUR.

Right now we're keeping all eyes on that house right there, Fort Kent, Maine, population about 4,000. It might look like nothing special is happening there. However, this is the scene of a battle between the state and Nurse Kaci Hickox.

BERMAN: This morning she took a bike ride straight into controversy. Hickox of course is the nurse who was ordered into quarantine after she came back from treating Ebola patients in West Africa. She says she is not sick, she says she will not stay home as ordered, and this morning, she proved it.

Just a short time ago she hopped on a bike and went for a bike ride. There were some remarkable pictures. And hopefully we have some of those to show you from the morning, reporters and cameras chasing her around, shouting questions. It was a truly bizarre scene.

That's her leaving. When she came back it was even more just strange. But it is a circus that raises serious questions. Now state officials are talking about a court order to force her to stay home until the quarantine period is up.

PEREIRA: Our Jean Casarez is among the media gathering outside that home. Our Jeffrey Toobin is here, also, to talk about a bit of this legal dance, if you will, that is going on. Good to have the two of you.

Jean, we've got to start with you. Not only did she break the quarantine, she outright defied her. Set the scene for us. Did police follow her? Did she say anything when she got back? What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She's a person of her word because she said she was going to do it on Thursday morning if the state didn't change its position.

And what happened, we were out here and all of a sudden from the back of the house she and her boyfriend came, and they had their helmets on with their bicycles. They didn't talk to anyone. They just jumped on the bikes and they were off.

And it was bout 55 minutes later that they came back up from the other direction. But after they got back, the chief of police right here of Fort Kent, Maine, spoke privately with them.

And I talked to him afterwards and I asked him, what did you say to them? He told me. He said that he wanted to welcome her back to the community. He said that they are concerned for her safety.

And he had told me previously that people were saying really nasty things about her around town, no out-and-out threats, but they were concerned about her personal safety, that they were not goings to disrespect her privacy.

He told me there's no order for her arrest at all. They just want her to be safe. And right after that, she and her boyfriend went back in the house, and that's where they've been since then.

BERMAN: Any word what she might do next? Is she going to hit the road again? Is he going to go and get a cup of coffee in town?

I know there isn't much of a town, Jean, but any sense of what her plans are?

CASAREZ: It's a beautiful town. This is northern part of Maine. It's on the Canadian border, and it's a small-knit community, no question.

As to what she'll do next, we don't know, because she is in the home, and maybe the bike ride for the day allowed her to get out. We don't believe she was around anybody in particular because it was just a rural-area bike ride.

But I think the question now is what is the state of Maine going to do? Because to be very technical on this, she's violated the voluntary quarantine that they asked her to do to remain in her home for 21 days until they believe she's not susceptible then to having the symptoms of Ebola.

So will the state now make the next move? It's sort of like a chess game, right?

PEREIRA: Right. Yeah.

So let's bring in Jeffrey Toobin to talk about the chess game, the dance, whatever we want to talk about. There are questions about whether or not, Jeffrey, did this woman break the law.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: She did not, not at this point.

PEREIRA: OK.

TOOBIN: The state of Maine has asked her to be in a quarantine situation for 21 days.

PEREIRA: Asked.

TOOBIN: And they have threatened to go to court today to make a formal court order, which would require her to be isolated in her home.

But at the moment, they have simply asked her, and there is no formal requirement at this point. But this could change moment to moment, if Maine goes to court and if a judge grants that order, neither of which is guaranteed.

BERMAN: Neither of which is guaranteed, Jeffrey. What do you think a judge would look at when making this decision?

You bring up a great point. We don't know what the state of Maine is going to do. They certainly were talking as if this was something that they would enforce. They haven't done it yet.

But if they do go to that judge, what would a judge consider?

TOOBIN: This is a really interesting legal situation because usually judges defer to public health authorities. They say, look, I'm not a judge. We have public health experts here. I am going to defer to their judgment about whether someone is contagious or not, and I will honor their request and issue the order they seek.

However, as we all know, people in her situation, in Nurse Hickox's situation are not, as far as we know, contagious in any way. Think about this, Berman. People in precisely her situation back from Africa, inside of 21 days, were meeting with the president of the United States yesterday, and he didn't have a problem.

So how can the state of Maine say the people of this small town are at risk?

PEREIRA: And, Jeffrey, add to that all the doctors and nurses and medical staff that dealt with Dr. Brantly, with Nancy Writebol at Emory University Hospital. None of them have been put into quarantine, a point our Dr. Sanjay Gupta made.

So here is my question, Jeffrey. Are we just getting to a point where this is a power struggle, people are just digging in their heels on both sides?

TOOBIN: Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is this is the forces of science against the forces of fear.

As far as we know, and certainly I'm not a doctor, but everything I've read and everything I've heard from Sanjay and everyone else, is that people in Nurse Hickox's situation are not a risk to anyone, as long as they do what the CDC says, which is voluntary self-monitoring and they find no fever, there is no risk to anyone else.

So that's why the president of the United States met with people like this.

BERMAN: Jeffrey, sometimes laws are passed on the basis of fear. Sometimes governmental action is taken on the basis of fear, though.

TOOBIN: That's true. But we're supposed to have judges that are supposed to act on the basis of law and rationality, not fear, although, what could be especially interesting here is if the state of Maine says, well, I understand the medical evidence, but think about the community.

The community is so fearful it's part of our duty to protect them from that fear. What will a judge do in that circumstance? Becomes a tougher call.

BERMAN: Interesting what you're saying. You're not saying protect them from the threat of catching the virus but protecting them from that fear, which is something altogether. It's such an interesting issue right now.

Jeffrey Toobin, Jean Casarez, thanks so much.

PEREIRA: All right, here's some insight into the public fear over Ebola from the NBC cameraman who caught the Ebola virus and beat it.

BERMAN: Ashoka Mukpo was infected in Liberia, recovered in Nebraska. He told our Don Lemon that government officials should have done a better job tamping down the tensions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHOKA MUKPO, EBOLA SURVIVOR: I thought that the public reaction was understandable in the sense that people tend to be afraid of the unknown. And there are so many factors that go into this disease being unknown, the fact it comes from a foreign country that people are afraid of, that it can kill you in this gruesome and overhyped way. So I understood the public reaction.

But I felt like some of our public officials and elected representatives whose responsibility it would have been to dampen that panic actually seemed to exploit that.

And, you know, even some people in the media seemed to ride it. To me at the time it felt like it isn't helpful. We need to calm this down so we can put our attention back on what's really important. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That's the key, right, focusing on West Africa and what's really going on.

Mukpo also says his ordeal helped him understand the suffering that Ebola has caused in West Africa where it has now killed more than 4,000 people.

BERMAN: Ahead @THISHOUR, the election just five days away, but do not wait to find out what is going to happen. We will tell you the three, key races that will decide the balance of power in Congress.

And then, a homecoming brought to you by @THISHOUR, LeBron James plays his first game as a Cleveland Cavalier.

PEREIRA: But wait.

BERMAN: Back as a Cleveland Cavalier.

PEREIRA: Who is responsible for that, John?

BERMAN: This show, @THISHOUR, made it happen. And we'll rejoice in that fact, coming up.

PEREIRA: Let's throw a ticker-tape parade.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Just five days to go and so many races divided by razor-thin margins, races that will tip the scales of power in Washington for the next few years. There are about nine Senate races right now that are super close, many within or very close to the margin of error.

But before we talk about the epic event in five days, let's talk about the one in two years plus five days.

PEREIRA: That is because one of the possible candidates for president in 2016 is making some pretty big waves -- big, loud confrontational waves.

Take a listen to New Jersey Governor Chris Christie in a bit of a testy exchange over Hurricane Sandy relief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: So if we're going to get into a debate here today, it's going to get very interesting and very fun. So, yeah, I understand.

So I'd be more than happy to have a debate with you anytime you like, guy, because somebody like you who doesn't know a damn thing about what you're talking about except to stand up and show off when the cameras are here.

I've been here when the cameras weren't here, buddy, and done the work. I've been here when the cameras weren't here and did the work. So I'm glad you had your day to show off, but we're the ones who are here to actually do the work. So, turn around, get your 15 minutes of fame, and then maybe take your jacket off, roll up your sleeves, and do something for the people of this state.

(APPLAUSE)

So, we'll see. Now listen everybody, what we need - what we - yep. Good, and there's been 23 months since then when all you've been doing is flapping your mouth and not doing anything. Listen, you want to have the conversation later, I'm happy to have it, buddy. But until that time, sit down and shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Joining us now, and the cameras are here, as well, CNN Political Commentator, Margaret Hoover, and Political Analyst, Jason Johnson. Good morning to both of you. I think -- let's put the Sandy policy discussion aside, Margaret. If you look at this from a purely performance standpoint, this is a very different guy than we've seen in the last while, following the bridge scandal, got a little bit more meek. But the fight is back, it would appear.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, you see the Chris Christie that made Chris Christie popular for the Tea Party, it made all of his YouTube videos on Town Hall go viral. I mean, Chris Christie is a guy who has never pretended to be anything other than what he is. What does that guy, by the way, think he's going to get, by standing up in front of the cameras yelling at the governor?

BERMAN: That guy. You called him just what Christie said, hey, guy.

HOOVER: Well, what does the individual who is protesting Christie in front of the cameras think he's going to actually achieve? Other than giving the governor an opportunity to make light of him and show his endearing side.

BERMAN: The question is, and I want to move on from Christie in a second, Jason, but the question is, does it still have the resonance it once did for Governor Chrisie? Yes, it made him a YouTube star by confronting people and audiences. But now that we're post-Bridgegate, now that people have taken a second look at him, will it be as much as a craze?

PROF. JASON JOHNSON, HIRAM COLLEGE: YouTube made him a star and YouTube is going to kill this guy for 2016. I can see it now, the montage of all the times Chris Christie is telling people to shut up, sit down, go away, you don't know what you're talking about, especially to women voters, this is not going to go over well when he's running for office nationally. The sort of Boardwalk Empire, Tony Soprano obnoxiousness is cute in your own state, but when you're going up against Hillary Clinton, when you're trying to appeal to voters in different parts of the country, I think this is going to come back and blow up in his face. I think Christie's making a serious mistake right now.

BERMAN: Alright. Let's turn from 2016 to now, as in five days from now and what's happening. There's a brand new poll out of Colorado, Quinnipiac poll, that shows the incumbent Senator, Democrat Mark Udall, trailing Republican Cory Gardner by seven points. That is an awful lot, Jason, with just five days to go. This is an incumbent Democrat, one, for the White House, I think leading up until this election over the last several months and years, was counting on. How do the Democrats blow this race, Jason?

JOHNSON: John, you know, I was just in Denver, Colorado, just two weeks ago. And it has to do with fracking. Udall has taken a horrible stance on an issue that a lot of miners in the states consider to be very important. Fracking is a method of extracting natural gas. He took Obama's opinion on the issues, which is that fracking isn't good. And that's really angered a lot of voters. And Udall didn't pay attention to this upcoming Republican wave. He wasn't like Kay Hagan in North Carolina. He didn't really pay attention to it, and I think he's done. And I think a lot of Democrats are going to suffer the same fate next week.

HOOVER: I agree with Jason, I do agree with you that he's done. I'm from Denver, Colorado, so I happen to have a sense of state. One of the things that's been unfortunate, is that Udall went negative really early, trying to pick social issues as divisive issues, really hammering women, Cory Gardner, for not being good enough on women, and Cory Gardner responded by having really unifying language, saying look, I'm not somebody who's going to divide Colorado, I want to bring people together. So his tone has really hit the right mark, as well. And "The Denver Post," not a conservative publication in Colorado, endorsed Cory Gardner and then made a case for a Republican Senate actually being able to broker a compromise. So it's so of extraordinary - in Colorado.

PEREIRA: Can we look at another poll? Let's take a look at Georgia. I think we've got that poll. Democrat Michelle Nunn leading in some polls there. Pretty much been a red state for a few years now. Why don't you address why you think she's showing such strength there, Margaret?

HOOVER: Well, I think -- we talked about this a little earlier, I think she's a strong candidate. And I think David may not just be a stronger candidate. Look, both have names that are very well-known in the state. Both are related to former governors, Sam Nunn and also Sunny Purdue, David Purdue. Look, he's run into some trouble in a state that has the lowest employment rate in the entire country. He was the CEO of corporations that, frankly, Textile Corporations, which participated in a lot of outsourcing, as the industry did during the '90s and 2000s, where a lot of these textile factories were shutting down. That's a hard case to make to the people of Georgia who are facing tough unemployment, How are you going to bring it back? And he's not able to address it as succinctly as his criticism has pointed out.

BERMAN: Jason, quick last word here on Georgia, you know, I think Georgia has gone from a state that Democrats would love to win, it would be extra credit if they won that state, to one being now the Democrats absolutely have to win if they have any sliver of hope at all of keeping the Senate. JOHNSON: Yeah, I think it's going to be really close. It's going to

be a run-off, because I don't think either Nunn or Purdue are going to get 50 percent of the vote. And I'll tell you this, if this turns out to be a runoff and we don't end up having the second election until January, Hillary Clinton is going to be here with a quickness, because this state is ground zero for where the Democrats think they can make some advancements in 2016. They think they can turn Georgia purple or possibly blue. This Senate race is part of that challenge.

BERMAN: Alright. Jason and Margaret, great to have you with us.

PEREIRA: Really good discussion. Thanks, guys.

HOOVER: Great to be here.

BERMAN: Remember, you should get out and vote. Many states you can vote already. Get out and vote now. If you can't vote now, vote Tuesday. That is Election Day. And after you have voted, make sure to find out what happened. Watch the results right here on CNN.

PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, though, Russian bombers in European airspace. What are they looking to do and what could come next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking news out of Wichita, Kansas. This is Mid-Continent Airport there, where a plane apparently crashed into a two-story building at the airport. This is according to our affiliate KSNW. We're told that one person is in critical condition.

PEREIRA: Yeah, what we know from our affiliate there in Wichita is that apparently this was the flight safety building. There are a number of people inside, according to KSN, they know that one person is in critical condition. Obviously, they're looking to see the people that were in the airplane, the other people that were in that building. There are several emergency units on scene. You can see smoke rising from the corner of your screen and all of the emergency vehicles there. We're going to keep an eye on this and try to get more information to pass along to you. This is the scene playing out at Mid-Continent Airport in Wichita.

BERMAN: In the meantime, new this morning, a White House computer system hacked, and whoever did it was in Russia. That is the word from U.S. officials. Now, this breach was so complex, the investigators say they would not be surprised if the Russian government was behind it.

PEREIRA: Well, now Russian president Vladimir Putin is responding to those explosive claims. His spokesman told CNN, quote, "is there an evidence? We've been hearing a series of groundless allegations against Russia recently, so we can't take them seriously any longer unless there's a proof. "

BERMAN: Now, this is all happening as there is a new alarming security concern about Russian warplanes. These fighters and bombers sneaking dangerously close to key U.S. allies. PEREIRA: In one case, F-16s from Norway intercepted eight Russian

aircraft over the North Sea. Six of them turned back, two did not, and wounded up getting intercepted by fighter jets from Portugal. British fighters also had to be scrambled.

BERMAN: Whatever the intentions of the Russians, this is a flat-out dangerous situation. It poses a threat to civilian aircrafts and of course, intercepting a military flight is no small matter, either. So joining us to talk about this, Pentagon Correspondent, Barbara Starr. Barbara, what's going on here?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, look at that map. Just look at the amount of territory that the Russian military is covering these days in the skies over Europe. What NATO officials are saying is, look, the Russians have been at this game a long time. They send up their Bear bombers, they send up their aircraft, but not in such large groups, and generally, not going as far south as you see Portugal.

This operation the Russians have been conducting, it has been in the North Atlantic, in the Baltic, in the Black Sea, all the way down to Portugal. It's the volume, it's the level, it's the number of aircraft the Russians are putting up. Not a violation of the law. They're not doing anything illegal, but the concern is what you guys are saying. What they're not doing is, they're not using their transponders, they're not filing flight plans, they're not in communication With European civilian air-traffic-control.

And of course, every day there are thousands and thousands of commercial flights over Europe. If the Russians are up there and they're not transponding, they're not talking, this becomes a serious concern, that European air-traffic-control that many of us have flown through, that airspace, they need to know who is out there, they need to know who is flying. And the Russians are flying, but not talking, and that's a problem.

PEREIRA: Sobering thought, no transponder, not on radar. Here is the question that begs to be asked, how is Washington responding?

STARR: Well, NATO and, of course, the U.S. being one of the biggest, if not biggest, members of NATO, basically, at the moment, putting a lot of sunshine on this problem. NATO actually came out with a press release detailing all of this yesterday, because it wanted -- the alliance wanted the Russians to know that NATO knows what they're up to. NATO is the organization that highlighted that they weren't transponding, they weren't filing flight plans, and they weren't in radio communication, so a lot of publicity, they hope, will make the Russians maybe have a second thought.

BERMAN: Alright, Barbara Starr, thanks so much.

Ahead @THISHOUR, ISIS levels its brutality on women, kidnapping, rapes, and worse. We'll hear from one teenager who managed to survive this torture.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)