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Maine Nurse Defies Quarantine; Interview with Congressman Steve Cohen; Interview with Man Who Confronted Governor Christie; Presidential Hopefuls Campaign in Iowa

Aired October 30, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you for joining me. We do begin with breaking news, although I never thought I'd be reporting this as breaking news. Kaci Hickox, the nurse in Maine who defied her quarantine, she went for a bike ride this morning. Now she is back at home.

You can see the reporters following her on to the porch of her boyfriend's house questioning here. As you can see, she was wearing a helmet. She walked past the camera crews.

It is unclear -- actually unclear where she was headed as she took her bike ride. But we do know that state police officers who were camped outside of the home, followed her as they went down the street.

As you well know, Maine has ordered her to stay inside for a 21-day quarantine. She has vowed not to do that. And as you can see she's followed through with her threat.

We do think that the state of Maine will file a court order later today, forcing her to obey that 21-day quarantine. But as of right now, no. We talked to her lawyer earlier this morning. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE: I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. I said that -- we did talk to her lawyer this morning. He is going to follow her wishes, and they are going to fight Maine's order, coming order, with a lawsuit.

Let's head to Maine now and check in with Jean Casarez. She was there as Kaci Hickox took off on her bike and then returned home on her bike. Tell us more.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the bigger issue, right, because there is a state-mandated, voluntary quarantine. And by leaving her home even on a bicycle, she in essence is violating that. She was gone for about 55 minutes with their boyfriend. They went on their bicycles. They went that way and they came back this way just minutes ago. She is holding firm that she is not here to infect anyone. She is not sick. She has no symptoms. She does not have Ebola.

But here is one thing, Carol, I want to show you. Right now there is a police cruiser right in front of her house. And that's the first time we've had them in front of the house. They've been across the street. But in front. And there is no order at this point to arrest her or anything like that. But from a public safety concern, we understand that the state police can monitor where she may go and keep track of who she may come in contact with.

But on these rural roads, I don't think, Carol, she came in contact with anyone besides some of the media, and she just wanted, I think, to get some fresh air.

COSTELLO: Apparently members of the media aren't afraid to get close to her, right? It's just so confusing for everyone. What are the neighbors saying? Are they supportive or not?

CASAREZ: I've got to tell you, Carol, this is a small town community, it is a logging community. It's just rural northern Maine on the border of Canada. The community is divided. Some people believe that she doesn't have Ebola, she doesn't have the symptoms, we want to see her, we want to welcome her back into this community. But other members say, you know what? I think you need to respect the state of Maine. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM MAJKA, NEIGHBOR: Why she's being so defiant, I'm not sure. But it's causing consternation here, and people are trying to ask why she won't honor it. It's a simple thing. Stay in the quarantine until it's over, and we're good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And the next question is what is next, because the state of Maine has vowed that if she violates her voluntary quarantine, they will proceed to court and they will try to get an order to make it mandatory. Now, we don't believe that has happened yet. We are trying to monitor the court situation here in Maine. But if that happens, Kaci and her attorney vowed to fight it. They've got three days, Carol, according to her attorney, under Maine's law.

COSTELLO: Jean Casarez, stay right there. We'll get back to you. Thank you so much. As I said earlier today, Hickox's attorney responded to Maine's governor, who said officials are exploring all options in an effort to keep citizens in her home state safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORMAN SIEGEL, ATTORNEY FOR KACI HICKOX: There's absolutely no justification for the state of Maine to quarantine Kaci. She doesn't have the symptoms, and the medical community continues to tell us that as long as she doesn't have the symptoms, she's not at risk with regard to being contagious to other people in Maine. So Mr. Governor, with due respect, you're wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Let's talk some more about this with Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen. Welcome, sir, and thank you for being here.

REP. STEVE COHEN, D-TENNESSEE: Nice to be with you.

COSTELLO: You heard what Kaci Hickox's neighbors said, why doesn't she stay in her house for 21 days and call it a day, calm fears? What is the big deal?

COHEN: The big deal is that she has a right as a citizen of the United States -- unless she's committed some criminal act or is a danger to the welfare of the public -- to have freedom of access of movement. The doctor, as he said, science says she has no symptoms.

This is just part of a fear, it's kind of understandable, but unfortunately, it's been stirred up and caused by fearmongering politicians who see poll-driven numbers in their anticipation of next Tuesday's election to try to take the Senate for Republicans and for the White House in 2016 for Republicans, who are doing everything they can to avoid science. Same Republicans who many don't accept evolution, don't accept climate change and don't accept biology. We had them in 2012 saying women couldn't get impregnated when they were raped. They refused science. They'll say whatever they think is attractive to their base and have done that in this circumstance.

COSTELLO: But, Sir, you have to agree that people are so confused because the federal government didn't come out strongly enough with some sort of policy. I know President Obama posed with health care workers who just came back from West Africa yesterday. They're not under any quarantine, although some of them came back less than 21 days ago. Why didn't the president do something like this sooner?

COHEN: I can't speak for the president. I do know that I have faith in the CDC. We really haven't had a great problem. One person came back from Dallas. That -- Mr. Duncan, he passed. The two nurses were treated immediately. I think we learned the proper protocols, and maybe the way they put their equipment on, they're free of Ebola. The doctor in New York followed all the protocols. He's being treated. Nobody else has had Ebola. It's not really--

COSTELLO: But as far as the federal government, where is Ron Klain, this Ebola czar? Why doesn't he come out and strongly say what the federal government's policies are? And by the way, the states have the right to institute whatever policies they want above what the CDC recommends.

COHEN: The states can do that. And I think Governor LePage has taken a page out of Christie's book. It's just -- doing the most drastic things possible, this quarantine type measure, he can't be considered particularly wrong because he can't fail. But the likelihood of any failure is almost infinitesimal. And they're doing what the public has been driven to think, and they are appealing to the public, which I understand, and politicians should respond to the public, but they should respond to science first. And there hasn't been a single scientist that has come out and said that these people that come back from serving the populations in those three African countries should, unless they show symptoms, be under any particular house arrest or observation, and the lady in Maine shows no symptoms.

COSTELLO: But wouldn't it be helpful for Ron Klain to come out and say all of these things? Don't you wonder why he's not?

COHEN: I don't know why he isn't, but I'm sure there's a good reason. He's very -- he is outstanding on policy, he's been an outstanding government official. I think the CDC has come out and made statements--

COSTELLO: Then why not come out and say something?

COHEN: Well, the CDC has been making statements, Carol, and they don't listen to the CDC. I don't think they have been listening -- they wouldn't listen to -- Francis Collins said something, he's probably as brilliant a man as there is on the universe -- the universe almost. They wouldn't listen to him. They don't listen to 97, 98 percent, whatever it is, of the scientists who say there's climate change. Ron Klain saying something doesn't make any difference. I think this is strictly driven by politics, fear mongering, and I think we'll look upon it one day like Terry Schiavo.

COSTELLO: All right. Congressman Steve Cohen, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

COHEN: You're welcome, Carol. You're safe.

COSTELLO: He's right about the scientists, that Kaci Hickox is not contagious. That is correct.

A freelance cameraman for NBC News who was infected with Ebola knew right away that he had the deadly disease. Ashoka Mukpo got sick earlier this month while working in Liberia. He was brought back to the United States for treatment, and he knows how it feels to have Ebola. He thinks people like Governor Chris Christie are playing politics when it comes to quarantining people who are not sick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHOKA MUKPO, EBOLA SURVIVOR: I had actually been feeling fine the whole day. We worked a long schedule. We were a couple of hours outside of Monrovia. And I didn't notice anything. We went back to the hotel, we got a very late lunch, started cutting film, talking about how to put together the segments. And the NBC crew asked me to go and interview someone at a different hotel. And I got in the car and I kind of slumped back in the car, and I felt my back kind of had this achy feeling to it. And I think if this happened to anybody else in a normal situation, they wouldn't even notice it. But I had been so attuned to any tick in my body feeling off because of the fear of contracting the disease element. Okay, I need to stop by my apartment and get my tripod anyway, and maybe I'll take my temperature.

I knew. I knew. For me there was actually no doubt, which is strange, because people say it could be malaria, it could be typhoid, you don't know. But for me, when I saw that thermometer bump up to 101.3 with no serious symptoms outside of that, I knew enough about Ebola to feel pretty confident that I was about to have a rough couple of weeks.

Governor Christie is playing politics right now. It seems to me that it's an effort to work with public opinion rather than listen to the advice of the experts. I just think this is counterproductive. These are people who have gone and endangered their lives to work with people who have very limited resources and are dying in relatively large numbers. So to make it more difficult and to treat them as if they're a potential problem as opposed to a public asset, I just think it's a shame. I don't think it's the right way to act, personally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Mukpo thinks he got infected with Ebola while he was cleaning out a car in Liberia after someone had gotten sick inside that car.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: Sit down and shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That's how a heated exchange ends between New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and a super storm Sandy advocate. We'll talk to that heckler next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It was supposed to be a simple event to mark the second anniversary of super storm Sandy. But it quickly turned into a heated exchange between New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and a heckler. Christie was addressing the crowd when this man, Jim Keady, stood up with a sign that read, quote, "finish the job."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I got the picture. I read it. OK? You do yours, too, buddy. So we know -- we know -- now, listen, you all know me. So if we're going to get into a debate here today, it's going to get very interesting and very fun. So yes, I understand.

So I'd be more than happy to have a debate with you any time you like, guy, because somebody like you, who doesn't know a damn thing about what you're talking about, except to stand up and show off when the cameras are here. I've been here when the cameras aren't here, buddy, and done the work.

[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]

CHRISTIE: I've been here when the cameras weren't here and did the work. So I'm glad you had your day to show off. But we're the ones who are here to actually do the work. So turn around, get your 15 minutes of fame, and then maybe take your jacket off, roll up your sleeves, and do something for the people of this state.

[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]

CHRISTIE: So we'll see. Listen everybody -- what we need--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CHRISTIE: Good. And it's been 23 minutes since then when all you've been doing is flapping your mouth and not doing anything. So listen, you want to have the conversation later, I'm happy to have it, buddy. But until that time, sit down and shut up!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. The heckler, Jim Keady, joins me now. Good morning.

JIM KEADY, CO-ORGANIZER, FINISHTHEJOBNJ.COM: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Do you consider yourself a heckler?

KEADY: I don't. I consider myself a citizen of New Jersey who is concerned about 6,000 families that have been failed by the governor through what's called the R.E.M. program.

COSTELLO: But you've done this before. You've heckled political discussions before, right?

KEADY: No.

Have there been times that I've engaged in civil disobedience and engaging representatives? Absolutely. But I've also served in office. I was a councilman in the city of Asbury Park. I know what it's like to have a citizen who is unhappy who is asking critical questions. And I think the governor should respect the citizens and also the office of the governorship.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: But clearly, you knew that Governor Christie would react in that way. You were provoking him.

KEADY: I was trying to get the governor to answer questions for families who are out of their homes still for two years now that were impacted by Hurricane Sandy. Why there's -- I want an answer to this question, like why there is $1.1 billion that was allocated to us by the federal government, and only $219 million of those dollars have gone out? You have more than 6,000 families that are either in the pipeline, have been denied, or just flat out left the program out of frustration. COSTELLO: And you're right. There's room to criticize, right? But

at this particular event and the way you did it, did it really like further the conversation?

KEADY: If I did not do this very minor act of holding up a poster, to which the governor responded and then we had our exchange yesterday, I would not be sitting here with you today and doing all these other interviews and getting a platform again for what's most important, those 6,000 families.

COSTELLO: But most of the people in the crowd applauded for Chris Christie?

KEADY: No. You can hear applause. There is no camera showing the people applauding. And it's at the governor's event. I certainly recognize that. But if you were to see the hundreds of text messages I got this morning, the thousands of posts on my Facebook page from friends of mine -- I had a great friend of mine that I grew up with, West Point grad, has voted Republican his entire life. He said, you know, Jim, if Christie ever got the nomination for the Republican Party, it might be the first time in my life I don't vote Republican. These are the -- the people of New Jersey -- go ahead.

COSTELLO: The way the climate now is in this country, people just go out and they yell at each other, and it's not really helpful. It doesn't make Governor Christie want to sit down with you and really listen to your argument. It doesn't want to make him -- you know, if you called his office and wanted to schedule a meeting, I don't think he would schedule a meeting with you.

KEADY: What's most -- having done activism in the past, I know that one of the things that really pushes elected officials to dig into issues that they haven't wanted to dig into, to have to answer questions from the media they haven't wanted to answer, is to do things like this.

Is it unfortunate it has to be like this? Absolutely. But if I had called the governor's office and tried to get a meeting and couldn't get it, I would not be sitting at this news desk right now talking to you about this issue and getting people to know nationally that our governor has failed our citizens. There are 6,000 families that are still not back in their homes after two years. It only took a year and 45 days to build the Empire State Building. We should be able to get people back in their homes in New Jersey.

COSTELLO: And I'm sure the governor is well aware of that. But at that event, he was congratulating the people who have been able to get back into their homes, and the people who have done the good work of cleaning up after super storm Sandy.

KEADY: Sure. I was one of those people. I took a month off work. Belmar, the town that he was speaking, is the town I grew up in. When Hurricane Sandy hit, I dropped everything for a month, and I volunteered every day. I would be there before the sun came up, I was there until the sun went down. Two days in, I was given a dump truck by the borough. The mayor, who is standing behind him, knows I did all this stuff. I took a little bit of umbrage when the governor said, hey, you should roll up your sleeves and get to work. I was crawling through crawl spaces in inches of slop that washed around in people's homes, carrying their belongings out to the curb, you know, hugging the old ladies that are in the homes around the street from the parents' house that I grew up in.

COSTELLO: I do, I get it. I know. I'm only asking you whether that is the way to really evoke change and get something done.

KEADY: It absolutely is.

COSTELLO: When the governor clearly was not into it. The way you did it, right?

KEADY: He may not have been into it. Members of our coalition -- I'm with a group of people that are pushing the governor on this, it's www.finishthejobnj.com. People can check the web site out. People have gone to other meetings. They've gone to the R.E.M. meetings. People are frustrated. They aren't getting answers.

COSTELLO: I understand some people are.

KEADY: So when people -- not some people.

COSTELLO: I got to end it there, Jim.

KEADY: Not some people. 6,000 families. Carol, I appreciate it.

COSTELLO: Jim Keady. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, too. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Some possible White House hopefuls are criss-crossing Iowa, stumping for Senate candidates in next month's midterms, but campaigning like it's 2016. CNN's Dana Bash is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Of course Iowa is known as the first caucus state. But that is 459 days away. But, you know, all of these White House hopefuls can't resist the fact that there's a white hot Senate race, so they have been here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hillary Clinton in the Hawkeye State to help get out the vote for the Democratic Senate candidate.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: You will never worry where Bruce Braley stands. He's a fighter for Iowa.

BASH: It's Clinton's second Iowa visit in two months, ostensibly to help others, but the probable presidential candidate has her own work to do in this first caucus state since in 2008 she came in third.

CLINTON: You test your candidates. You actually force them to be the best they can be.

BASH: Iowa's tight Senate race allows White House hopefuls -- and there are a lot of them -- to get here early and often.

Florida Republican Marco Rubio spent the day with GOP Senate candidate Joni Ernst.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLORIDA: Hi, how are you, I'm Marco.

BASH: Pressing the flesh with Iowa voters at multiple stops.

RUBIO: How Iowa goes, is how the Senate will go. The Senate majority may very well be decided here in Iowa this year.

BASH: Rubio was an early supporter of Ernst for Senate. The bonus for him and others to come and meet Iowa voters and local leaders is undeniable.

This is the third time, I believe, you've been here to Iowa since --

RUBIO: Third or fourth. We've been here a few times.

BASH: Any Republican even considering running for president has made a point of cropping up in the Hawkeye State this midterm election year. Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan, Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul have all come to Iowa multiple times in 2014 alone.

BASH: Sometimes testing the waters can be treacherous, like when a voter asked Rubio not about his own presidential prospects, but Mitt Romney's.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we convince Mitt to run?

RUBIO: I don't know, you'll have to ask him.

BASH: Things are a lot less chaotic on the Democratic side. Unlike eight years ago when Barack Obama trounced Hillary Clinton in Iowa, she doesn't have much competition here, for now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: But she is throwing herself in to try to help the Democrat in this very, very tight Senate race here, Carol. In fact, she made a point of going after the Republican Senate candidate, Joni Ernst, for skipping a Des Moines Register editorial board, which is something that is traditionally done by candidates as far as we can remember. And she said the reason why it's so bad is because candidates here in Iowa are required to answer tough questions. And, Carol, we can be sure we'll be reminding her of that maybe this time next year.

COSTELLO: I think so. Dana Bash reporting live from Iowa this morning, thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM he is one of the biggest names in the tech industry. Today, Apple CEO Tim Cook went public that he is gay. We'll look at what impact his acknowledgment could have on LGBT workers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)