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Hickox Quarantine; American Pleads Guilty to Terrorism; War on ISIS; Airport Crash; Apple CEO is Gay

Aired October 30, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.

Great to be with all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's what we're learning right now. Just within the hour, the governor of Maine has just released a statement about Doctors Without Borders nurse Kaci Hickox and her pledge not to follow a quarantine that the state has asked her to follow. The thing is, these two sides cannot reach an agreement. Here is more from the governor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAUL LEPAGE (R), MAINE: I don't want her within three feet of anybody.

QUESTION: What happens if she does? Is there any legal ramification that you have?

LEPAGE: Let's put it this way, I am going to use the legal provisions to the fullest extent that the law allows me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It's not entirely clear what the governor of Maine will do specifically. But here's what is clear, Hickox is not staying inside her home as state officials have asked her to do. She took a bike ride just this morning outside of her home here in Fort Kent, Maine. She talked to reporters. She says she's ready for a fight, a legal fight, if it goes there. But she was hopeful this morning, that is before the governor said what he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Why a bike ride?

KACI HICKOX, NURSE ASKED TO FOLLOW QUARANTINE: This is something my partner and I like to do. Since we've moved here, this has been our trail.

QUESTION: Are you afraid with the state police around?

HICKOX: I'm not afraid.

QUESTION: Have you heard anything from your lawyer? HICKOX: I sure haven't. No. We're still waiting - waiting to hear from

the state of Maine to see what they want to do. I hope that we can continue negotiations and work this out amicably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to CNN's Jean Casarez. She is live there at Kaci Hickox's home in Fort Kent, Maine.

Let's just begin with the fact that authorities say, at least according to the governor, that he says his patrol units are there for her safety.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and they have been here. And we have heard they're for her safety. You know, this is a small town community, but everybody is talking. And as I talk with people, they're really divided. But as I was told last night, this community, they're not taking it well. They would like her to respect what the state of Maine is asking. And so that produces another issue that was touched on today just moments ago by the governor. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEPAGE: We can't protect her when she does that. The reason there's a police car there is to protect her more than anybody because the last thing I want is for her to get hurt. But at the same token, her behavior is really riling a lot of people up and, you know, I can only do what I can do and we're trying to protect her, but she's not acting as smart as she probably should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And the local police chief told me that there aren't any out and out threats against her, but there are some, as he termed it, nasty things being said about her around town. So that's why I believe that there is an issue in regard to her public safety.

One more thing, Brooke, to note, in the release that was just sent out by the governor, he made it very vague but he talked about the hours of negotiations yesterday and also today by the attorneys for the state, along with her attorneys, and also said that they were trying to follow the guidelines of someone who was at risk and that would be that you can't go in the public arena, you cannot go to public venue, commercial transportation, public transportation, but you can walk, you can take a bike ride, you can't be within three feet of someone else, and then the next sentence is, but we could not reach a resolution. So I think if we look between lines, that might be where the state of Maine was coming out on this, but Kaci and her attorneys would not agree.

BALDWIN: OK, Jean Casarez for me in Maine. Thank you so much.

Let's turn to someone who I trust when it comes to all of this, our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Here's the thing. Listen, I realize that this is news. I realize the

whereabouts of Kaci Hickox's news. I realize that there is law in what the governor is saying. But I go back to what we touched on yesterday, the optics of all of this. You have a woman who so bravely went over to Africa to help the people who are truly in need. She's stuck in her home based upon the law. Yet you have the president of the United States, flanked by doctors, including yourself at the White House yesterday, some of whom are within that 21 day quarantine. Can you please make sense of that for me?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I wish I could. If you were a martian, you know, from outer space looking at this right now, it would - it would -- you would see two almost completely opposite ways of handling the same situation.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GUPTA: So your - your -- I think your instincts and your perception is exactly right. And, look, we're not doing the public any favors here because I think it's just confusing them even more, right, because this is what they're seeing. What Kaci is talking about, and no questions she's being provocative here, right?

BALDWIN: No question.

GUPTA: There's no question that people are getting nervous. And don't dismiss those people. They're nervous because they're confused by this and it's not that they're - they're trying to be smart about it, I think. But this idea that her parent organization, Doctors Without Borders says quarantines are not recommended or warranted, the Centers for Disease Control, even in the high-risk category, for someone who may have been exposed but is not sick, they're not recommending quarantine. So there's no scientific body, either here in the United States or around the world, that says someone like Kaci should be quarantined.

Now, it doesn't mean that there aren't other potentially legitimate reasons, but they're not scientific. They're not because of medical reasons. They're more, she's going to incite some nervousness, some fear, maybe even some panic. I don't know if that's happening or not, I'm just saying that that seems to be what's driving this more than science and concern about medical welfare.

BALDWIN: Right. Do you think this will get straightened out? That there will be a singular message on this?

GUPTA: I think the CDC has given a singular message, but they only make recommendations, they only make guidelines. And I think the president, again, Brooke, as you point out, was trying to basically, as much in what you saw and what you heard, send a singular message, OK, these people are not pariahs, they're not unsafe, they've done amazing work -

BALDWIN: Hugging Nina Pham, that nurse from Dallas who had Ebola.

GUPTA: Hugging - yes. If they get sick, we will take care of them. We will make sure that they don't make other people sick. But right now they're fine and there's a good chance they're not going to get sick.

I mean you -- remember, Brooke, you know, for Doctors Without Borders and other organizations have been going central Africa for decades. Health care workers have been coming back for decades. This is -- what we have seen this year has never happened before in the United States. So it's not like this is something that's common. It's rare. And so far just one person, sadly, but one person only has died in this country. So I think that context hopefully matters and is comforting to people as they watched this all unfold.

BALDWIN: Right. Let me just play a little bit of sound. This is from Dr. Fauci from the NIH. He weighed in on all of this today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANDREW FAUCI, DIR., NATL. INSET. OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If you have a blanket, mainly just completely everybody can't do anything for 21 days, that, we feel, would be a major disincentive. But that doesn't mean that the people who are promoting that are doing anything wrong. I believe that the governors and others who have been pushing that in good faith are trying to protect their constituency. So there's no criticism of them. It's just that, as a health person, as a physician and a scientist, I would say that you would look at the data and it tells you what the risk is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: You know, one thing I finding interesting as well, Dr. Fauci, obviously, is one of the doctors at the NIH who helped take care of Nina Pham. If you think about this idea of quarantining all health workers that have taken care of Ebola patients, it does raises the question where does this end, right, because Dr. Fauci, under these guidelines, would himself be quarantined, along with the rest of the team at the NIH. The doctors at Emory, who have taken care of four patients successful now, that team of doctors and nurses, they would be quarantined under some of these state guidelines that you've heard. In Nebraska, the same thing.

So when I say it like that, you think, oh, that's not going to happen. It sounds ridiculous.

BALDWIN: Right. It's impossible.

GUPTA: Right? But that is essentially what is being recommended here. Health care workers, even if they're not sick, should be quarantined for 21 days. Are you going to do that for the health care workers in this country as well? I'm not suggesting they do that. But where does this end?

BALDWIN: Draw the line.

GUPTA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Right. OK. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. GUPTA: I'm sure we'll be talking about it again.

BALDWIN: I think we will. I think we will. Dr. Gupta, I appreciate it very much.

Coming up here, we are going to follow some breaking news we're getting just now. This American charged with trying to join ISIS, join the fight overseas, pleads guilty. Hear what happened in court and from the man accused of the crime.

Also ahead, Kurdish fighters from Iraq moving into the Syrian city of Kobani to battle the terror group ISIS. Our own correspondent there, Nick Paton Walsh, was right there on the Turkey border along Syria today. He will join me live next.

And later, Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, wrote this op-ed today. He says being gay is one of the greatest gifts from God. Why is he coming out publicly now? We'll discuss that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Breaking news here. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's what we have for you. An American who tried to join the brutal terror group ISIS has pleaded guilty to terrorism charges. This is what we have actually according to this NBC News report. Forty-four- year-old Donald Ray Morgan of North Carolina admitted to trying to travel to Syria to fight with ISIS. Here is part of his interview with NBC from last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RAY MORGAN: I purchased a ticket with the intent of entering Syria after joining up with medical and food aid convoys or directly with Islamic state. A push came from being mistreated by people around me who didn't share the views I had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: NBC reports Morgan was born catholic. He once attend a military academy. Joining me now, our justice correspondent, Evan Perez, with a little bit more on what's happening here.

So talk about what happened in this courtroom. He pleaded guilty?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, he pleaded guilty to providing material support to a terrorist organization and to being a felon in possession of firearms. Now let's talk a little bit about him. Now he makes about 14 or 15 Americans who have now either pleaded guilty or have been charged with providing support to ISIS. In his case, he gave that interview to NBC while he was living in Lebanon. According to the government, he flew there in January with the intent of trying to get over the Syria to join ISIS. Now, he tried a couple of times and got turned away first in Turkey and then tried other ways and it looks like he basically ran out of money and decided to come back home in August, which is when the FBI arrested him.

Now, you know, his story, as you can see there, you know, is sort of a very common one that law enforcement is finding with people who are being recruited to ISIS and these terrorist organization. He was a former sheriff's deputy. He apparently tried at one point to join the U.S. military and ended up converting in 2012 to Islam and then slowly began becoming more radicalized. He was tweeting support for ISIS, including its leader, al-Baghdadi, and urging people to provide support.

And in that interview with NBC, he basically just explains that he really believed he was buying into the ISIS propaganda that this is their - the true caliphate, the true message of Islam is where they're establishing their presence there in Iraq and Syria, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, forgive me if I missed this, but I'm wondering how far did he get before he was caught?

PEREZ: Well, you know, he didn't actually ever make it. And that's actually one of the points his lawyer made when they were trying to get him released. At first he tried to fly through Turkey because that's obviously one of the biggest routes for Americans to get to Syria, and he got turned away by the Turks and ended up back in Lebanon. And he said he tried other ways but it looks like he ran out of money before he finally came back home.

BALDWIN: I see. I see. Evan Perez, thank you so much, with the breaking news for me this afternoon, appreciate it, from Washington.

Let's stay in this part of the world because we know that the first Iraqi Kurdish fights to enter the war against ISIS in Syria have reached the field of battle. As if to extend a handshake, U.S. war planes greeted those Kurds with strikes against ISIS in Kobani. You remember that is the city right along that Turkish border, besieged by ISIS for the past six weeks. There you see it in the upper left-hand side of your screen.

So the Iraqi Kurds, this is the Peshmerga, they're trickling into Kobani from a border crossing directly to the north. Here's the kicker. They will be delivering heavy weapons desperately needed by the city's defenders for the fight against the better armed ISIS. CNN Nick Paton Walsh is near Kobani. He is across the border in Turkey.

Nick, what are your seeing?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, as we left -- we're now (INAUDIBLE) - but as we left the border a few hours ago when dark fell, really heavy gunfire, a lot of explosions. And just as dusk came down, two pretty enormous air strikes as well.

We know that about noon today the first nine or ten Peshmerga, part of a contingent of about 160, crossed the border. They were already scouts, I think it's fair to say, to test the ground, see what's via for the 30 plus armored vehicles, the mortar hardware and 150 other men who are going to cross in, possibly tonight. Some speculation maybe tomorrow. It seems like they're going to secrecy to their advantage. We know ISIS is waiting for them. But what's going to happen when they get there? Well, they'll meet some Syrian rebels who came in yesterday morning early, a little unexpected, pushed through by Turkey, designed, I think, to dilute the mixture of Syrian Kurds inside there doing the fighting. So Turkey's happier with the outcome if Kobani doesn't fall to ISIS.

But strangely too, Brooke, as well, for the long lens of our camera, we saw two ISIS fighters climbing up a telephone's (ph) mast (ph) it seemed. We thought we saw them give each other a high five up that mast and then come down again. ISIS still very much inside that city, Brooke.

And I have to say, hearing Evan talking just there now, quite remarkable story of this American fighter. So many people who try and join ISIS, it's a lengthy procedure. It involves social media. It involves exchanges on Twitter, then Gmail chat. We've studied the process ourselves and often it involves somebody in the country they're from initially approaching them and deciding whether or not they're worthy of being a recruit. Simply walking (ph) up here into Turkey (ph) and hoping you'll meet the right person. A very strange choice indeed.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: A fighter that we were just talking about - I should say wannabe fighter from North Carolina, apparently ran out of money there. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much. We will continue this conversation on the status of Kobani, thank you, in Turkey for me.

Coming up, four people have died after this small plane crashed into a building. This is near the airport in Wichita, Kansas. Look at those pictures. Four more people are unaccounted for. We'll talk to a captain in the Wichita Police Department about the search for the missing. You'll have that ahead.

Also, Apple's CEO Tim Cook penned and op-ed, say he is, quote, proud to be gay, considers it one of God's greatest gifts to him. We'll discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Got some more breaking news for you on this Thursday afternoon.

Four people are missing after this deadly plane crash. Four were killed, five were injured after this small plane went right into this building near the Wichita, Kansas, airport. This plane apparently lost engine power on takeoff, slammed into the building. And you can just see the massive, massive plumes of smoke here from a distance. A lot of unknowns at this point. We don't know how many people were on this plane. We do know that three of the injured are listed in critical condition.

So let's get straight to Captain Doug Nolte with the Wichita Police Department.

And, captain, let's just begin with, we know what happened to the plane, but were there people working inside of this building? I mean what's the status on those missing and injured?

CAPT. DOUG NOLTE, WICHITA POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Yes. There were some people in the building. There was approximately 100 people who were reported in the building at the time of the crash and we're still looking for four of those. So, this could have been a lot worse than it was.

BALDWIN: Had the plane taken off from the airport or was it trying to land?

NOLTE: Well, at this point we aren't sure if the plane was landing or take off. That's part of the ongoing investigation. But we know it was doing one of the two when it slammed into the building.

BALDWIN: And what exactly was this building? I'm reading it was a flight safety building. What does that mean?

NOLTE: The flight safety building had some simulators that train pilots in it and we believe that that was what was happening is some train - some pilots were being trained. When the plane struck the building, it hit the roof and it collapsed in on the building. So, as you can imagine, there's quite a bit of confusion from the people that were in the building, witnesses that were telling us what was going on, and we're trying to sort through all of that now to kind of get everyone accounted for and figure out exactly what happened.

BALDWIN: Before I let you go, captain, I understand you're right there on the scene. Can you just describe it for me?

NOLTE: You know, it's unfortunate that first of all we've got four confirmed dead. We want to just reach out to the families and people involved in that, and it's always heart wrenching when there's people involved that die. But secondly, it's, you know, it's incidents like this when they happen, people want answers as quick as they can, so it's confusing and that's kind of what we've run into. Fortunately right now, things have stabilized and we're able to get into more of an investigative approach on it.

BALDWIN: Four dead, five hurt, four missing there in Wichita. Captain Doug Nolte with the police department, thank you so much for hoping on the phone. We'll stay in close contact with you and hopefully those four missing are a-OK. Thank you, sir, so much.

NOLTE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: For the very first time, an active CEO of a Fortune 500 company has publicly acknowledged that he's gay. Apple's Tim Cook just made his announcement in the new issue of "Bloomberg Business Week." But the reaction to it is divided, especially online. On one end of the spectrum you have people saluting Cook for being visible in a world that is full of homophobia. On the other end, people just don't understand why coming out in 2014 should even be news in the first place. But to Cook it means this. Let me quote him from his opinion piece. "I am proud to be gay and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. I don't consider myself an activist, but I realize how much I've benefitted from the sacrifices of others. So if hearing that the CEO of Apple is gay can help someone struggling to come to terms with who he or she is, then it's worth the tradeoff with my own privacy." How about that?

CNN's Poppy Harlow is joining me now.

And I have to be totally transparent, we had a huge, you know, just discussion in my own meeting as to whether or not this is news, right?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A good discussion to have.

BALDWIN: But it's kind of a big deal. He's the CEO of Apple.

HARLOW: I think there's a few reasons. He's the first active duty CEO of one of the biggest, most recognizable companies in the world. He rarely talks, that's another reason. He rarely gives interviews. Certainly never talks about himself.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HARLOW: And this is something that he didn't want to do for a long time. He said, I'm deeply private. I just didn't want to do this. But then he said, as you read in the statement, that if this changes the lives of one other person that feels more comfortable coming out at work, then it is worth it.

What stood out to me in this op-ed, Brooke, he said being gay has given him a deeper understanding of being a minority.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HARLOW: Didn't that stand out to you?

BALDWIN: Yes.

HARLOW: That's he's more empathetic and that has given him a richer life. And that struck me because here's a white male CEO in corporate America, who's not a minority in that way, but is in this way. And he can understand people better.

I want to play some sound for everyone from another CEO, Lord Browne, he was the CEO of the oil giant BP. He didn't come out until after he resigned from office as CEO and he says he regrets it. Here's why.

BALDWIN: OK. Interesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR, CNN'S "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Do you think you would have been a better CEO if you had been out?

JOHN BROWNE, FORMER CEO OF BP: I think I would have had better relationships with people. One of my friends, who I talk about -- talked to in this book, a woman, a bisexual woman, always said - she said to me, we knew there was something wrong because you were so reserved and reserved people do not share what they do outside business with other members of the team. And, of course, all straight people share that. They have photographs on their desk. They have a wedding ring. They talk about the weekends. I didn't talk about any of that because it was so complicated to talk about it in a way which did not make me seem gay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What he's saying is he could not be his full self at work and he would have been a better leader if he had been his full self. And I've reported a lot on this - this issue. We did a big piece on it. And they say those signs in corporate America on the walls, the diversity council meetings are good, but they're not nearly enough if it doesn't come from the top.

BALDWIN: Also I think something he alluded to in the piece and something you and I were talking about in commercial, I don't think a lot of people realize that there are laws on the books - what is it, the majority of the states?

HARLOW: Twenty-nine states.

BALDWIN: You can fire somebody for sexual orientation.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: Did you know that?

HARLOW: Twenty-nine states, folks. I mean most companies -- many companies have rules that say, we don't do this, we won't do this at this company. But even some Fortune 100 companies in America do not have those rules on the books and that means that people that are gay go to work every single day, some of them feeling like I may get fired because I'm gay.

I spent time interviewing a young man who works for one of those companies and he said he is so torn because he feels like if he comes out then maybe he will lose his job or not get promoted, but at the same time he said, I know that I'm not getting promoted now because I'm so reserved, I'm not social with people, I don't really tell them who I am. So he's stuck in a hard place. So I wonder how this announcement certainly makes him feel. I mean this is the reality still in 2014. There's a law to try to change that but it's stuck in Congress.

BALDWIN: But I think what makes this also so unique is that he said it's a gift. It's a gift.

HARLOW: A gift from God. That's what he said.

BALDWIN: Poppy Harlow -

HARLOW: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, just heartbreaking photos showing the devastating extent of the death and destruction caused by the Ebola virus in places like Liberia. My next guest was there. He captured these stunning images and he'll join me here live to talk about what it was like and what he feared the most while there and after coming home to the states. Don't miss this.

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