Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

48-Day Pennsylvania Manhunt Ends; Americans Found Dead in Mexico; Hannah Graham Suspect Arraigned

Aired October 31, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Stephanie Elam in Los Angeles. Thanks, dear. Happy Halloween.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Love you. Happy Halloween.

PEREIRA: That's it for us @ THIS HOUR. I'm Michaela Pereira.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman. "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

For the first time in exactly seven weeks, the people in northeast Pennsylvania woke up today without fearing that crazed and heavily armed cop killer just might be lurking outside. Instead, captured. Eric Matthew Frein, a self-styled survivalist, who was cornered last night and taken in without a shot being fired. The ordeal now is just the beginning, though.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coward!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You low life!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric, did you kill that trooper?

(INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wouldn't make it in the military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That's Frein going into court this morning to hear a list of charges that could send him all the way to death row if he's convicted. So this is Frein heading into an overnight lockup in the same police barracks where he allegedly gunned down two Pennsylvania state troopers in early September.

Look closely at the car because that's the patrol car of the trooper he allegedly killed. And the cuffs he's wearing, yes, they belong to the trooper, too. So, today, the trooper who spearheaded the seven- week manhunt, a manhunt that ended on the grounds of an abandoned air field, well that trooper reflected on the suspect's motives. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I characterize his actions in the past as pure evil and I would stand by that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: When the search for an ambush killer was first gearing up, the investigators needed more than just pure evil to go on. I want you to see this eye-opening report by CNN's Jason Carroll from back on September 17th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pennsylvania Police Commissioner Frank Noonan describes him as a man with a mean streak who has separatist leadings, a love for guns and a hatred of law enforcement.

COMMISSIONER FRANK NOONAN, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: His head is shaved very closely on the sides and with long hair on top. It's wider than a Mohawk. He was last seen with no facial hair and was wearing a brown and gold windbreaker, khaki shorts and sneakers, carrying a dark green backpack.

CARROLL: They also have determined Frein belongs do a military simulation group known as an air soft (ph) gun team. This particular group reenacted the role of eastern European soldiers during the Cold War and simulated combat.

LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: In his current frame of mind, Frein now appears to have assumed that role in real life.

CARROLL: Investigators also say Frein was socially withdrawn and had made angry statements about police to people he knew.

CARROLL (on camera): The suspect lived here with his parents. The suspect's father telling investigators that two weapons are missing from the house, an AK-47 and a rifle.

CARROLL (voice-over): Investigators found a book in Frein's bedroom titled "Sniper Training and Employment." His father, an Army veteran, told police he trained his son to shoot and that he does not miss.

These pictures from Frein's high school year book, from his senior year, show him on the school's rifle team. His quote, "I feel that we could have done a lot better in matches this year if it wasn't for the fact that in anticipation for the rifle team being canceled."

Frein's love of guns and the military continued into adulthood. He's well-known for walking around the small community of Cenadesis (ph) in full military uniforms.

ELAINE (ph): He was a very serious young man. He always wore green. I always thought he was in the service. CARROLL: Elaine did not want to give her last name. She runs a

gardening store in town and says she has known the family for 10 years.

ELAINE: I was devastated. And it didn't surprise me, I guess.

CARROLL (on camera): Why didn't it surprise you?

ELAINE: I guess because my children are so outgoing. You know what I mean? My -- when my kids meet you, hello, how are you? They shake your hand. They - you know, they're very outgoing. This young man was not and I do think that, you know -- but the mother's very sweet. I don't know the father.

CARROLL: And when you say he wasn't outgoing, was he withdrawn? Was --

ELAINE: I think he was very quiet and he did not speak when he came in.

CARROLL (voice-over): Jason Carroll, CNN, Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Yes, he wasn't talking much when he was taken in last night either. And now the legal eagles on it, defense attorney Midwin Charles and CNN's legal analyst Danny Cevallos.

All right, you guys, you saw the condition in which the suspect, because he is still a suspect, you saw the condition he was brought in on. Apparently he was found this way because the report was he came in without incident. No shots fired. Maybe that's the not incident they're talking about. But this is going to be real personal, isn't it? This prosecution is going to be personal.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. And, you know, when you look at the handcuff tradition, I mean that's a -- that tradition has been around for as long as I can remember, using a slain officer's cuffs to handcuff a suspect.

MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.

Now, as to the roughing up, we really may never find out what exactly happened out there, although these were U.S. marshals so they aren't going to be as personally connected.

CHARLES: Right.

CEVALLOS: But, in law enforcement -

BANFIELD: You're all in law enforcement.

CEVALLOS: You know law enforcement is law enforcement is law enforcement no matter what your badge is.

CHARLES: That's right. And when you look at the charges, I believe the charges were just announced about an hour ago, you're looking at first-degree murder. You're also looking at criminal homicide of a law enforcement officer. So these charges are incredibly indicative of the way in which they intend to prosecute this case. And the prosecutor has also said that they are going for the death penalty in this case.

BANFIELD: Yes, that took a nanosecond. That took a nanosecond from the time -

CHARLES: Well, that was a no-brainer. I think that was a no-brainer.

BANFIELD: So here's the deal, though. The deal. I want to talk about a possible deal. You've got a really strong case against someone. You've got a state that's not super keen on the death penalty. It's been over a decade since they have executed anyone anyway. But is that the kind of case that these guys who find it so personal, Danny, are going to say, you know what, maybe a deal should be in the works. We'll just do away with it all, save the taxpayers a whole bunch of money and finish this guy off, lock him away for good.

CEVALLOS: So I practice in Pennsylvania and we have a death penalty but it's with an asterisk. We very rarely actually execute people, but we sentence them to death all the time. I think we have the fourth largest death row in terms of number of inmates on death row, which is really amazing that we're willing to sentence them, but it's very difficult --

BANFIELD: Not kill them.

CEVALLOS: Well, it's very difficult to actually execute them. So, in a case like this where you have so much evidence, you can absolutely foresee a prosecutor deciding, I'm going for the death penalty, no matter what, no deals, full steam ahead.

BANFIELD: And, Midwin, could you foresee a situation in which a guy like this, who seems to have been relishing in the hunt and the chase and actually has it in for law enforcement and government, could you see obsessively he saying no to a deal and dragging it out as much as he can?

CHARLES: I - I -- it wouldn't surprise me if he did. You know, I think it's interesting that you raise the tax issue. The state of Pennsylvania spent $10 million on tracking this man down, seven-week manhunt. So I don't know that tax paying dollars right now are of the highest concern for the state of Pennsylvania in making sure that justice is carried out for what happened here.

BANFIELD: Do you think we're, both, going to see a death penalty prosecution go through with this? You think we'll --

CEVALLOS: Absolutely.

CHARLES: Absolutely. Absolutely.

CEVALLOS: Like I said, Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania loves convicting people of the death -

CHARLES: Absolutely.

CEVALLOS: For - to the death penalty. They're just not so good at actually executing them.

BANFIELD: At actually doing it.

CHARLES: And there are many states that are that way as well.

BANFIELD: That's true. Well, we'll continue to watch this and I guess we can say good-bye to a big problem that has really left a lot of fear, a lot of people really fearful for too long. Thanks, guys. Hold on with that.

CHARLES: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: Got a tragic update as well. Three Americans have been found dead in Mexico. All three of them shot in the head and then set on fire. And the worst part of this story, they were all siblings. Details are brutal. The report is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Three United States citizens, missing for more than two weeks, have now been found. But they've been found shot to death. And they were found in the Mexican border city of Matamoros. The three siblings, all in their 20s, Erica Alvarado Rivera, and her brothers Alex Jose Angel, were discovered along with the body of Eric's 32- year-old boyfriend, Jose Benitez, who is believed to be a Mexican national. The father of the three young adults was the one who identified his children's bodies earlier today. Our senior Latin American affairs editor Rafael Romo joins me live from CNN Center in Atlanta.

What happened here?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, Ashleigh, there are some clues as to who might have been responsible for this and it could have been an elite force with the local police. That's twist number one of the investigation.

But the other thing that I want to talk about is the fact that whoever did this did it to make a point. And let me tell you why. The bodies - I was able to confirm this with the authorities. All three young people, along with the Mexican companion, were found tied by the hands and feet. All were shot in the head and the bodies were badly decomposed when found. Officials say they were kidnapped on October 13 in the city of Matamoros, just across the border from Brownsville, Texas, and killed the same day.

There's an interesting story, like I was saying, Ashleigh. Investigators say witnesses told them an elite force of the local police known as Group Hercules was responsible for the kidnapping. Officials are now questioning nine officers who belong to the force of 40 in total. Authorities are trying to find out if the real elite force was responsible for this or whether this was a group of imposters. The bodies of the three Americans were identified by the victim's father.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, I -- you know, it just doesn't compute when you hear that the police might have actually been involved in this. Can you explain why that may make sense south of the border? Why the police would take three siblings, bind them hand and foot, and shoot them in the head?

ROMO: It wouldn't be the first time, unfortunately, Ashleigh. We are also following a story of 43 missing Mexican students where the police is believe to be involved in the disappearance because they were working, they were on the payroll of a Mexican drug cartel. There's also a case in the month of June where soldiers were accused of killing 22 people in a separate incident. So I am not saying that that's what happened in this case, but we have seen similar incidents in the past and so that's what authorities in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas are trying to find out.

BANFIELD: So can you clear one thing up for me? And it's this. The way these three siblings were found, like you said, it was absolutely a message. They were in advanced stage of decomposition. And a very sad story. That poor father, what he had to go through to identify his kids. Is this a message to America in any way, that these are three American citizens left like that, or was this something completely different? Maybe crime related. Maybe something entirely different and had nothing to do with their citizenship?

ROMO: At this point there's absolutely nothing to say that there was - this was a message sent to Americans. We have to understand the context in which this is happening. Tamaulipas, the state where this happened, along the Gulf Coast and just south of Texas, is in the middle of a war between two very powerful drug cartels who are fighting for territory. And so it's a very volatile, very violent state and it's a possibility that these people might have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and they just got picked up. However, like I said before, the way in which they were killed raises a lot of questions as to whether why they were targeted and killed this way, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Just so sad for that family. Rafael, thank you. Good reporting on that and keep us posted on it. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up, a man charged in connection with Hannah Graham's disappearance, facing off against a judge today. Is he seriously going to try to convince everyone he's crazy? When we come back, you are probably going to enjoy the reaction from the judge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The suspect in Hannah Graham's kidnapping and murderer, in fact, possibly, faced a judge yet again today, but not for that case, for something different, an alleged 2005 sexual assault. And the charges that he's facing, they don't get a whole lot more serious than this, attempted capital murder, abduction with the intent to defile and sexual assault. The prosecutors are in Fairfax, Virginia, and they say that Matthew --

Jesse Matthew, there he is on the right, attacked a 26-year-old woman almost 10 years ago. At the time, she had just been returning from a routine grocery store trip when she was grabbed from behind, dragged about 100 yards and sexually assaulted, violently and viciously. She was almost killed, but she got away. And thank God she did, because she got a good look at him, good enough for that sketch, the description that led to that comparison. So, if you look at the current mug shot, I think a lot of people would agree, there are definitely similarities.

Brian Todd was there at the arraignment today.

So I know there was a lot of legal wrangling that was going on between which lawyer was going to represent him. But, ultimately, what was all this talk about the possibly of an insanity defense? Where's he going with this?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, the defense attorney for Jesse Matthew, his name is Jim Camblos. He is going to be joined by other defense attorneys now in Fairfax. But essentially what he asked the judge was, he wants an evaluation. And the prosecutor came out later and told us, he wants an evaluation for sanity, to determine whether Jesse Matthew was, in fact, sane at the time that this crime occurred in 2005.

Now the judge, Dennis Smith, said that he was not going to field that motion, he was not going to consider that request right now. He wants more procedural motions to be undertaken before he considers it, but he will consider that motion later. So basically he's saying, you can take your request for a sanity evaluation and shelve it for now. I'll talk about that later when we've gone through some of the other aspects of this. But, Ashleigh, that is an indication of possibly a direction that the defense will go in this case. They want him evaluated to see if he was mentally there, mentally with it at the time this crime occurred.

BANFIELD: I like how you used the euphemism shelve it. But in jurus (ph) prudential (ph) speak, that's more of a smack down. This is my courtroom and this is my process and my timeline. Brian Todd, thank you for that.

For the legal view on this, and there are many, surprisingly enough with such a small appearance, it gives rise to a whole lot of issues with that man and where he's going. I want to bring back CNN's legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos and criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles.

So much going on in that one little moment. Ultimately, this guy actually thinks when you have bodies that are hidden and victims that are secreted away to quiet locations where you can't get caught because being caught means there's something wrong, means you know the difference between right and wrong. Does he seriously think that he's going to be able to prevail in any kind of insanity defense?

CEVALLOS: Well, here's what insanity is. The test is whether or not the defendant knew right from wrong, which is commonly misunderstood. It's not whether you personally thought what you were doing was right or wrong, it's whether you were aware that society knows what you were doing was wrong. So, for example, if you flee or try to hide a body, that shows that you're aware that whether or not you think what you did was OK, you're aware that other people tend to frown on that kind of behavior.

BANFIELD: You know other people will get you in trouble.

CEVALLOS: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CEVALLOS: So if you're aware of the wrongfulness of your actions in the sense that society does not condone it, then you know right from wrong.

BANFIELD: You know, I'm sorry, I've seen a few courtrooms and I've seen a few cases where I think there is a shot at the insanity defense. Most of the time it doesn't work. But this guy, not a chance. My own personal observation.

But, listen, there's something really critical that Brian Todd saw and heard today in that courtroom and that is that the victim in the 2005 case, the one who got away, thank God for all of us and for her she got away, she's going to come back to this country. She doesn't live here. But she's going to come back to this country and she's going to tell her story. She's going to tell us what she says that man did to her. That is going to be massive in this case.

CHARLES: It is. And one of the good things about these kinds of cases is when you do have a victim who can sort of come back and sit in front of a jury and look the jury in the eye and sort of kind of go over exactly what happens to her. That is one of the best ways to secure a conviction. You just can't beat that.

BANFIELD: Can you imagine -- can you imagine the terror of being dragged 100 yards and then ultimately brutally raped in a dark gazebo area, and then surviving and being able to escape? I mean she is going to -

CHARLES: And also -

BANFIELD: She's going to be a linchpin in so many other cases that follow.

CEVALLOS: But remember -

CHARLES: She is. And this happened 10 years ago.

BANFIELD: Right.

CHARLES: So it's a good thing that, you know, we don't have a statute of limitation issues when it comes to these sorts of crimes.

BANFIELD: Yes. CHARLES: And that's why it's so important for these crimes to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And I'm glad that the prosecutor is sending that message that crimes against women and sex crimes are serious.

BANFIELD: Danny, we talked earlier about, what if there's no NDA in the Hannah Anderson (ph) crime scene? What if the forensic evaluations that I think are still ongoing, they're trying to get so much, any kind of link to him and the scene, not so much to him and her. We saw them on tape together. We know they were together. He could easily have a defense in the Hannah Graham murder charge, if that's where we're going with this, I think we are. Yes, I was with her that night. So what? Yes, I was with her. I didn't kill her.

CEVALLOS: Look here -

BANFIELD: But if you take him into court as a convicted sex offender from the 2005 case, how strong is that argument?

CEVALLOS: Well, look at some of the recent cases. We've seen a number of instances, whether it be Casey Anthony and Joran van der Sloot, where the last person to see somebody - if you can prove that, some juries have required more before they were convict of murder. We've seen some not guilties that were rather surprising, even though the evidence was pretty clear -

CHARLES: Overwhelming.

CEVALLOS: That the defendant was the last person to see this individual. So, if you don't have the forensics, then, you know, I hate to say it, you might have a little trouble.

BANFIELD: Yes. Well, again, that nice, big, fat convicted sex offender, violent offender, certainly helps to get a jury passed that reasonable doubt, that's for sure. By the way, I called her Hannah Anderson. It's Hannah Graham, I apologize. But I think we all know exactly who we were talking about and where he's headed in terms of the next series of cases against him.

Thank you both. Appreciate that.

CHARLES: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: The embattled chief of the Ferguson Police Department says that he has absolutely no plans to step down from that job, but my next guest says the chief might be rethinking those words already. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to take you now to Ferguson, Missouri. That town is getting a top to bottom investigation by the United States Justice Department. Ferguson is the place that, of course, erupted into violent protests when a white policeman shot an unarmed black teenager and shot him dead in the summer. The feds are going over years of traffic stops, police searches, jail records. They're looking for any kind of pattern of mistreatment or any kind of evidence of racism. That's something that might support the U.S. attorney general's opinion that there's got to be some big changes in Ferguson.

As for the chief of police, he is still insisting that he is not going anywhere and that's not something that we picked up from the grapevine.