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Dr. Drew
Mysterious Note in Utah Family Deaths; Tiny Harris Surgically Changed Her Eye Color; Mama June`s Convinced Honey Boo Boo Is Endangered; Weird Child Memory of Lena Dunham
Aired November 03, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a reality star travels to Africa to have her eye color changed surgically. Now, she`s being attacked
on social media. Ms. Ali is back to weigh in on this controversy.
Plus, Honey Boo Boo`s grandmother rips into Mama June.
And Lena Dunham accused of molesting her sister? I`ve got something to say about that.
So, let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. I`m here with my co-host Samantha Schacher.
And, Sam, as you know, Ms. Ali is going to join us. She`s back.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. She`ll be here to address the outrage on social media over Tiny Harris` eye surgery. It
should be very interesting.
PINSKY: I see her getting ready. I`m so excited.
Ms. Ali, it`s good to have you.
But first, a stunning new development in the mysterious case of the Utah family found dead in their home. Fourteen-year-old son, one of the kids
who died, might have predicted the death himself and possibly even the others and all signs still point to murder-suicide. But at whose hands?
Joining us -- take a look at this first.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FAMILY FRIEND: I guess murder-suicide.
SCHACHER: Court documents suggest the family was poisoned. Empty cups were found next to each victim. Red liquid was coming from the mother`s
mouth. What was found in the trash can, 10 empty boxes of nighttime flu medication --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would definitely suspect the parents were the ones who medicated their children, moved their bodies and medicated themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the mom was the ringleader. Her mother, the first thing out of her mouth to the police were, I can`t believe she would
do this to her kids.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywoo.com, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Karamo
Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com.
Sam, there`s even more. Tell us.
SCHACHER: So disturbing, Dr. Drew.
So, the boy`s uncle, the father`s brother, he said that when he cleaned out the house, they found a letter in a notebook written by the 14-year-old
son, Benson, to his best friend. And the uncle says he thinks it was a goodbye letter. Quote, "It indicated that Benson was aware that something
was going to happen. Benson at least had some idea that he might be found dead somebody."
Dr. Drew, I still want to reiterate what was found in the house that day. So if I could go over that list one more time. They found 10 open empty
boxes of nighttime cold flu meds, 9 1/2 empty blister packs of cold flu meds, empty boxes of allergy medication and multiple empty bottles of
methadone.
PINSKY: Now, multiple empty battles of liquid methadone. Who knows how much that might imply? Have any of the toxicologies been released yet? Do
we have any idea what`s in the system?
SCHACHER: No, not that we know yet.
PINSKY: I guess the mom, as you heard in that tape, Valerie, which is Christy`s mom, was quick to tell cops that she couldn`t believe that,
quote, "she would do this to the kids."
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, I think that it is something to do with the parents. I think they poisoned the children and themselves.
PINSKY: Why?
COOMBS: Well, I think it was a combination of things, they were having financial issues, they had mental illness issues that appear to be getting
exacerbated --
PINSKY: Why, what were they?
COOMBS: We don`t know, but the family has spoken out and said that there was some mental illness combined with drug issues that were exacerbating
that.
But, Dr. Drew, the most important thing I heard the uncle say is, in the last few weeks, they were both -- both of the mother and father --
expressing paranoia that people were out to get them. That is always a big red signal.
PINSKY: Uh-oh, yes.
COOMBS: -- because a lot of times people with a mental illness, when they start seeing that, they are trying to escape with their children or trying
to do something to their children.
PINSKY: Or they believe, Vanessa, that something is going to happen to their kids and they believe they`re saving their kids from something worse.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD: Yes, that`s one theory. But we also know that drugs create a high level of paranoia.
PINSKY: Not opiates, no, no, no.
BARNETT: No documents that prove that these folks were exhibiting any kind of mental illness. What we have here --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Vanessa, Methadone is people lying on the couch. It`s not people paranoid and acting out. People on withdrawal from meth done will do that.
BARNETT: We don`t know what else they were on. We don`t know a lot about this family, but what we do know is these two parents killed three children
and there`s no excuse. There`s no mental illness on record at all. But we do know they had a drug issue and they had tried to get over it before and
they were exhibiting issues with it now. Now, we have an entire family dead. I don`t want to harp on mental illness to give these parents a
break.
PINSKY: Karamo, I want to get your theory, but, you know, when people do get paranoid when they`re in methadone withdrawal, because they stopped
taking it and went into acute withdrawal.
COOMBS: Right, right.
KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes.
PINSKY: Karamo, you think?
BROWN: Yes, completely, I agree. I think that these people had some type of mental illness and combined with the drug addiction that`s what happened
here. And it was ironic that this child left a note saying that he believed that his life is in danger --
PINSKY: Do you think the child had anything to do with it?
BROWN: I don`t believe the child had anything to do with it, but children are very perceptive, and especially when they`re in a situation with their
parents. They`re aware that something is going on. I do believe that this child knew that something was happening and his life was in danger but did
not have the words to verbalize what was going on.
He saw these parents depressed.
PINSKY: Loni?
COOMB: Or else he didn`t think it was his parents but he was hearing about this paranoia from his parents. So he thought somebody is out to get us.
We`re in danger.
PINSKY: All right. Guys, we`ve got to get out. I`m going to bring in the behavior bureau in.
And later, an African-American reality star turns her brown eyes gray. Here they are. Look at that. Ms. Ali is here and she`s got some ideas
about what that was all about. And I`m anxious to hear them.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is all just guess work. Either the husband or husband and wife thought they were putting their children out of their
misery, because they could not take care of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The poor children. Why do they have to kill the children?
BARNETT: Typically, when family chooses to home school, they`re hiding something and they don`t want the kids to alert teachers or friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They tend to be more isolated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like it would be the parents and if they have a mental illness going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family knows there`s something going on. Nobody did anything about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not as quick to jump to the fact that the parents orchestrated it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.
Now, last week, we reported on this story, the one we`re discussing, two parents, three children found dead in their home in Utah by their son,
found by the son.
During our report, we showed a photo that depicted a woman and three of the Strack children. We mistakenly identified the woman in the picture as
Kristi Strack the deceased mother of the children. The woman in the photo was one of the children`s caretakers. She`s alive and well. We regret the
error.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. I`ve got Jennifer Keitt, life coach, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, and
Erica America, psychotherapist and TV host.
A family member found a note we were discussing earlier, written by a 14- year-old, the child`s name was Benson. He wrote to one of his best friends, in that note, he feared he would be found dead.
Jennifer, does that change any of your thinking about this case?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I`m really interested in the fact that this child is 14 years old. Now, I don`t know
exactly what happened but I heard rumors maybe he was -- maybe a principal involved in it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You mean he`s a possible perpetrator?
KEITT: Well, because of the fact that he`s 14 years old. All I can remember, Dr. Drew, is my own 14-year-old son and he`s not going to just
lay down and take medicine because I tell him to. So, I`m a little interested in the fact that this child had this premonition that things
would be --
PINSKY: Jennifer, I actually agree with you. I see Judy saying no, though. What do you say, Judy?
JUDY HO, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: Dr. Drew, this reminds me of the Jonestown massacre, where all the adults did feed the children --
PINSKY: But listen, that was a weird, cultish -- everyone bought into the BS.
HO: This is what I`m saying. Parents will be able to convince their children. They`re still minors. You expect your parents to take the best
care of you.
KEITT: Yes, you do. But at 14 years old, you have some kind of gumption about you. You`re talking about going to high school.
(CROSSTALK)
KEITT: I really wonder -- I`m not saying that he orchestrated it, but I am saying it`s a little unusual for his age that he just laid down and drank
medicine and died.
PINSKY: Erica, let`s hear what she says. What do you say, Erica?
ERICA AMERICA, TV HOST: So I see this as being a cult-esque environment.
PINSKY: What, because the parents are drug addicts?
AMERICA: Because they were home schooled, they kind of had this very closed in way of doing things, their belief systems, all these things,
24/7. Isn`t it interesting that the only one that didn`t get in on this wasn`t killed was the one with a girlfriend in the outside system?
PINSKY: Interesting.
AMERICA: But the 14-year-old was able to write the letter to express himself about what --
(CROSSTALK)
KEITT: Did he have a relationship?
AMERICA: One day, we`re all going to go to heaven together and then --
PINSKY: One thing I`ve noticed, up until now, there are no pictures of these children at their current age. After the death, the family set up a
Go Fund Me page to cover the funeral cost and we have a few more recent pictures if you guys show those.
Sam, for me, there we go, for me, the reason that -- we`re not seeing much. But, Sam, the reason there were no pictures to my mind is, it suggested
that the parents were on methadone and people on methadone aren`t doing a lot typically.
SCHACHER: Yes, that could be it. It could be the fact that coupled with they did have a mental illness and they were reclusive and here they are
with all these irrational thoughts. You don`t think that that is going to affect the children? Because they`re not going out to these schools where
they`re going to be around other children to help them understand what reality is.
They`re in this home, Dr. Drew, with two people who are either addicts or have a mental illness or both and if they`re hearing that somebody is about
to get them, you don`t think that maybe they would suffer from those fears, too?
PINSKY: Not the 14-year-old, Jennifer is saying.
But, Judy, what about my theory this is methadone withdrawal? People get severely paranoid on methadone withdrawal sometimes. Maybe both parents
withdrawing from methadone, got into an acute psychotic shared experience. And that was that.
HO: That`s true, though. That could definitely happen from a methadone withdrawal, Dr. Drew, as you mentioned. They become very paranoid. If
it`s not shared delusion, one parent could have convinced the other parent. And so, this is definitely a possibility. But I think that`s something
weird about this closed system, that Erica was also suggesting, and there`s something weird about it.
PINSKY: We`ve all got creepy feelings about this. We`re all worried about it. I sort of share Jennifer`s like, what about that 14-year-old, but more
information will come, you guys.
Next up, social media is in an uproar over a reality star`s eyes. They were brown. There`s Ms. Ali. She`s going to talk about it. Now, they`re
sort of a blue-gray, and Ms. Ali is going to tell me what was that all about?
And later, Lena Dunham at the center of the scandal. She is accused of doing some controversial stuff to her sister. She discusses it in that
book. I`ll explain more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new set of eyes.
TINY HARRIS, REALITY STAR: They were brown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now they`re quite light.
HARRIS: They were brown. Now, they`re quite white. They`re ice gray. That`s the color that I purchased.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Harris exclusively telling ABC that she`s permanently changed her eye color, with a medical grade silicone.
HARRIS: I just wanted to do something different, and I have the right to do that. It`s my body. They take this implant and it`s folded up. They
open it and spread it over your eye.
I looked in the mirror and I was like, they`re amazing. Like I love them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That interview was from ABC News.
I`m back with Sam, Vanessa, Loni. Joining us, Ms. Ali, social commentator, author of "Blackman`s Guide to Understanding the Blackwoman".
This is the story you were tweeting most about tonight. Reality star Tiny Harris, whom you saw there, got her eye color changed permanently. The
surgery was an active ophthalmological surgery that made her dark brown eyes gray. It is illegal in the United States, so she got it done in
Africa.
She posted a picture of her new look on Instagram. She is being blasted for having various things people are saying, such as she has no self
esteem, she`s trying to look like a white woman.
Sam, how is Tiny responding to all this criticism?
SCHACHER: OK, well, I tell you what she says, Dr. Drew. She says, quote, "People are saying I must have low self-esteem," as you just stated, Dr.
Drew, but if you really know me, I have no problems in the self-esteem department. You have to do what makes you happy. As long as you`re being
healthy and safe, just do what makes you feel good.
PINSKY: All right. Vanessa, I`ll start with you. Do you think the criticism is appropriate?
BARNETT: Look, when you put something on Instagram, not everyone is going to love you and be your friend. But I`ve spoken to Tiny several times,
I`ve interviewed her several times, and I know she`s a nice person.
But this wasn`t necessarily the smartest move. If it`s illegal here, it`s illegal because of a reason. I don`t think people are necessarily hating
on her, but if you`re it`s a drastic thing to do.
PINSKY: The extreme nature of doing this suggests maybe she`s going too far.
BARNETT: Although I do not agree with all the criticism. I don`t believe she`s trying to be a white woman. She`s had a lot of other surgeries that
kind of contradict that.
PINSKY: Like what?
BARNETT: The big booty. If you`re trying to be a white girl, the first thing you do is not go get a bigger butt.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m glad you laid that out for us, because now, it`s time to bring Ms. Ali in.
Ms. Ali, how do I understand all this? Help me with this.
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know we have an identity problem. It`s not just a low self-esteem. I think that we have minimized
the effect that having pictures our entire life of white women in all kinds of poses and all kinds of situations, I think we`ve minimized what impact
that`s made on us as black women.
I don`t think -- I think it`s a misnomer to think it`s a permanent eye color, because that`s not going to be permanent. You know, you`re calling
it a medical grade silicone, that`s what she says. You remember last year we were using home depot grade silicone to puff our butts up.
Until people started dying and losing their limbs, they didn`t stop it. I think the same is going to happen with these eyes. Tiny`s next reality
show is going to be Tiny goes blind because of beauty.
PINSKY: Well, you know, Loni she`s on to something here, because that is what is at risk here. That`s what we`re all uncomfortable with, is that
she`s risking her eyesight. We contacted some medical sites today, and I was looking at them, and they were saying, that is a potential
complication. Ms. Ali is right.
COOMBS: I think that is a very serious thing to worry about.
PINSKY: Ms. Ali?
ALI: I think the person we need to blame for some of this is Madame C.J. Walker. Back in the `20s and `30s, she was the first black female
millionaire. But what she discovered she created and came out with the first black straightening comb, and that set us on the path of hating our
hair, wanted to straighten it, and then they came out with skin lightener, which is the most popular cosmetic in black Africa, Africans, and in the
United Kingdom among black people. We are still trying to be white. We think that`s better.
PINSKY: And, Sam, is she not on to something here, because when Caucasian women get body image issues, we blame the images we see on magazines and
TV. Ms. Ali is making the same case but talking about it in terms of racial qualities and characteristics.
SCHACHER: No, I get it. I completely agree with you, Ms. Ali. But here`s the thing. Yes, in an ideal world, we would all love what god gave us, if
we could all be so lucky. But I don`t think it`s our right to judge Tiny. I mean, it`s her eyes, it`s her body.
I was reading some of the commentary. It broke my heart the way that people were attacking her.
PINSKY: All right. Ms. Ali? And then, Vanessa. Ms. Ali?
ALI: The last part that I want to make, we have to also realize that as black women, we`re losing our men to white women, Latino women, Asian
women, foreign women, in their countries. And so, at this point, we`re trying to do whatever we can to compete.
So when we look at these women who are taking our men and our men are going to, what is the commonality? They all got this long, flowing white women
hair. So, now, we want to have your hair and eyes, we want to have anything that will make us be anything other than ourselves so we can
compete and get our man back.
SCHACHER: We don`t have that hair either, Dr. Drew.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s the point.
BARNETT: Doesn`t she have the right to embrace this? Because she is part white.
ALI: No.
BARNETT: Why doesn`t she have the right to embrace any change? Yes, she is trying to keep her man because we`ve all heard about the reputation of
her man.
PINSKY: Loni?
COOMBS: Why do we say everyone has to stay in these certain little boundaries? Why can`t people do what makes them feel the most beautiful?
Where it`s changing the hair color, but changing --
PINSKY: But this is something I`ve heard many times when women talk about body dysmorphia, all these sorts of things, we talk about the images that
are out there as portraying beauty. Miss Ali is making that same case, just in a specific and narrow context.
COOMBS: I agree with that, and I agree that we all as a society and mostly women look to the media to tell us what is beautiful based on what weight
we`re supposed to be, what height were supposed to be, what color our hair is supposed to be. I agree, that`s an issue across the board.
But I don`t think the people need to necessarily put themselves in a box and say I can only go in this range.
PINSKY: Yes, yes, ultimately that`s right.
SCHACHER: I agree, Loni.
PINSKY: Last point, Mss Ali, and I`ve got to go.
ALI: Here`s the point. Here`s the point, black women have never been used as the model for how your body and your color and your hair is supposed to
be. It`s always been white women that`s always seen, so that`s all we want to look like. We`ve been asked to how you suppose to look.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s leave it at that. I will talk about that with the behavior bureau and I want you to take our poll about Tiny and her
eyes. We have the poll at Facebook.com/DrDrewHLN, and I will give you the results hater.
And later, also the outrage will not go away. Honey Boo Boo and her family drama. We`ll get into that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WENDY WILLIAMS: Tiny is admitting that she permanently changed her eye color from brown to ice gray.
AUDIENCE: Oh!
WILLIAMS: I know! This right here is going too far. Getting your eyes permanently done like this is, to me, as bad as people who bleach their
skin. I mean, you can self-hate your flat boobs or you can self-hate your flat butt, or you can - whatever people - you know, self-hate, whatever,
but the eyes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That clip, of course, was from the "Wendy Williams Show." I`m back with Sam and our behavior bureau. Jennifer, Judy and Miss Ali stays
with us. Reality star Tiny Harris getting slammed on Instagram because she admitted she had her brown eyes surgically, perhaps dangerously procedure
that is only available outside of this country, surgically changed to gray. Now, Jennifer, her critics say she`s giving up her identity as an African-
American woman. Is that a legitimate criticism?
KEITT: I don`t think so. I don`t think so at all. It is not an option for me. I would not do that. It does sound very dangerous. But I think
we are in a very, very interesting time right now. As African-American women are being redefined right before our eyes, with Michelle Obama going
into the White House, that completely changed the playing field in terms of how black women are viewing ourselves and how America gets a chance to look
at us. And I think that every black woman now, we are having out-loud conversations that were being had in our kitchen tables with our
girlfriends now for America to hear. I applaud what she`s doing. She`s in entertainment. She`s an entertainer. She is just like everybody else who
would have implants in your breasts or implants in your butt. Anything that it takes to be known to stand out, that`s the business that she`s in.
She has taken the risk upon herself and I don`t see anything wrong with it. I really don`t.
PINSKY: All right. Miss Ali, what do you say to that?
MISS ALI: Now, here`s the problem. Here`s the foundational basic problem with all of this new black woman nonsense. Our girls are looking at this,
and we`re teaching our girls that their breasts are not acceptable, their eyes are not acceptable, their hair is not acceptable and their fingernails
are not acceptable, even their toenails are not acceptable. And so, what we`re telling them is that unless you put on some kind of false
accoutrements (ph), unless you go buy something from some other people and attach it to your body, then you are not beautiful. That`s a very bad
example. And Wendy Williams got some nerve to talk about somebody getting fake eyes. She started out with breasts the size of oranges, now she got
two watermelons sitting up there. She can`t talk about anybody body image, because she has a problem, too.
PINSKY: OK, and Judy, I really like the way Miss Ali is framing and challenging this. Because again, if you take it outside of the realm of
race and just take it into the images that poured down upon women generally, and this is an example of that. It really is the zone of body
dysmorphia, is it not?
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. And one of the ...
KEITT: Yes, it is.
HO: ... strongest research findings that we know, aside from the low self- esteem, which may or may not be an issue here, is media consumption. The more you consume popular media, like reality shows, like looking at
"People" magazine and "In Touch," the more you`re likely to develop body dysmorphia and pursue plastic surgery. And she ...
(CROSSTALK)
HO: If it`s been a celebrity, has been in a public eye for so many years.
PINSKY: But Judy, but Judy, Jennifer - but in Jennifer`s case it`s well taken though, right? It`s just part of her career objective.
KEITT: She`s not the only ...
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: And she`s not the only celebrity that young women have the opportunity to see. That is my point. We have a wide range, we are
getting more and more imagery out now than ever before. And we`ve got to be able to applaud that.
PINSKY: So, so, OK - so ...
KEITT: We`ve never been able to see this many black women on media and in media. We have never, at a time in history been able to see as many.
PINSKY: Well, but Jennifer is making the case, Sam, that the range of beauty needs to be expanded.
KEITT: Right.
PINSKY: And maybe this is - I`m just being ...
HO: Of course it does.
SCHACHER: You were not arguing with them.
HO: Of course it does.
SCHACHER: But Dr. Drew, there`s nobody out there with silver eyes. So let her have these bad-ass silver eyes. I think she looks great. Let her -
What if she is just funky? What if she ...
PINSKY: That`s Jennifer`s point.
SCHACHER: What if she`s just a little offie (ph) - I agree with you, Jennifer, it`s not our right to tell her what to do with her ...
PINSKY: What is social media say? What`s going on?
KEITT: I don`t think she`s trying to be white. I think she`s trying to represent who she is in a more dynamic way, like every other actress out
there.
PINSKY: Well, I start read some tweets too. Sam, what have you got?
SCHACHER: I agree. OK. I`ve got a lot on social media, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, me too.
SCHACHER: Let me read a few. From Jessica, "No different than getting Botox or a face-lift or a boob job. People do all kinds of things to
enhance their appearance." From Iris, "Now she`s a white girl until she opens her mouth." From Robin, "I`m sick of these self-made freaks." I
don`t like that. "You don`t look younger and you don`t look hotter, you just look weird."
PINSKY: Sam, I`ve got one - Did you guys complete this one about ...
SCHACHER: Let your free (INAUDIBLE) fly.
PINSKY: I`ve got - this is one from Marsha Blackman. Last I`ve checked, it`s the white women. They are more so trying to be like us with the
extreme tanning, booty injections, et cetera.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I mean, so, but that`s Jennifer`s point, though, which is the range of beauty that`s expanding. And that`s a good thing. But Miss Ali,
you say no?
MISS ALI: No. Well, no, and I say that this is not any redefinition of black women. We`re not defining or redefining ourselves by trying to morph
into looking like all the white women. That`s not true. And by the time tiny rounded plain blind man`s bluff, with a ts, she`ll stop this. This is
not - and this sets a bad example.
PINSKY: OK.
MISS ALI: And one last thing.
PINSKY: Please.
MISS ALI: One last thing.
PINSKY: I don`t want it to be the last thing. But go ahead. One more thing. One more thing. How about that?
(LAUGHTER)
MISS ALI: You know, we`ve only had a lot of money as black people in the past about 50 years. We didn`t have a lot of money, OK? We didn`t have a
lot of millionaires and thousandaires and everything, OK? So now here`s the problem, what we say is more money, more problems. And people that
have a lot of money, they run out of things to do. So then they start getting tattoos, getting their butt enlarged, getting their breasts, you
know, getting their eyes done. But we have tried to thin our nose, thin our lips. We`ve tried to do everything, but all of it comes back to, we`re
trying to look like white people.
PINSKY: Well, Judy, Judy help bail me out here.
HO: OK.
PINSKY: What if the - Let`s just frame it this way, your question I have for you, Judy. What if this eye procedure were known to be very safe,
would you get it done? Would it be OK then? Would it not be such an extreme measure?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I`m wearing my purple eye contacts from Halloween right now. So ...
SCHACHER: You are?
HO: You know what? I know you can barely see them, they are a little dark purple, but I don`t know any ethnicity that has purple eyes. So there you
go. And if it was safe, Dr. Drew, maybe she is - just trying enhance her appearance, but for anybody who is considering plastic surgery out there,
it`s not going to fix whatever problems you started with.
PINSKY: Internal. Internally you mean.
HO: Absolutely. Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes. And I think that - I think we all agree with that. Particularly Jennifer and Judy ...
MISS ALI: With what?
PINSKY: Well, that when women have to define themselves by their externals, and those externals are defined by the media, we`re all
concerned about that. You get that, Sam?
SCHACHER: Yeah, of course I do.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: But I also think beauty comes in all different shapes and sizes and let`s not judge people that want to change their eye color, boobs or
whatever.
MISS ALI: They do not. They do not.
(CROSSTALK)
MISS ALI: No, they don`t!
PINSKY: Well, maybe they will, maybe they will, Miss Ali. Maybe they will.
MISS ALI: No, they don`t.
PINSKY: And that`s what Jennifer was saying, that we`ve expanded - maybe it will.
KEITT: Please.
PINSKY: Yeah.
KEITT: And there`s something - everybody got a great point here. Well, Miss Ali is disgusted with us. She`s had it with us.
(LAUGHTER)
HO: You`re beautiful, Miss Ali. We love you.
PINSKY: All right. Stay. Miss Ali is actually going to join us for the after show.
So, I know all my panelists would pour - be a part of that, too.
Next up, I have got Mama June and her own mother speaking out against her. You will hear from the grandmother and later, TV`s hit girl, Lena Dunham
has stirred up a big controversy with what she wrote in her bestselling book. I`ll get into that, as well, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMA JUNE: I`m in - Boo can do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.
MAMA JUNE: We`ve got to get this down, we have two days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Honey Boo Boo family scandal explodes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a child molester, momma. He did this to me. Why would you let him come around the girls knowing what he did?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark Anthony McDaniel began abusing her then eight- year-old daughter Anna in 2002. The man went to prison for ten years for molesting her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: TMZ obtained photos of Mama June with McDaniel in her bed, as you see here, the same man who raped her own daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pedophile or no pedophile. This is the pedophile that molested your child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Mama June should have all her children taken away from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Erica and Karamo. Honey Boo Boo`s mom, the grandmother of mom - the mother of Mama June, the grandmother of Honey
Boo, is accused -- no, I got to get this family straight.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: So, Honey Boo Boo`s mom, Mama June, is accused of rekindling a relationship with a man who went to prison for molesting the oldest
daughter, Anna. Now tonight, Mama June`s own mother, this is Honey Boo Boo`s grandmother, is speaking out against June in an interview with
Entertainment Tonight. So, have a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think June`s children should be taken away from her?
SANDRA HALE: I think that Sugar Bear should get Alana, so she`s safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If in fact Mark is around, do you think Alana is in danger?
HALE: Yes. And the reason I say that, because that`s about the same age he likes. He messed with Anna.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Grandma, June`s mom, and Honey Boo Boo`s grandma, told the team Mama June`s behavior is a "slap in the face." Vanessa, my question is
Honey Boo Boo in danger? What do you think?
BARNETT: Absolutely. We know from experience, we`ve seen it time and time again, these pedophiles strike again. They don`t just come out after ten
years, and he`s never even acknowledged that he`s actually done something wrong and neither has Mama June. So if he`s under the impression that
he`s, you know, wrongfully accused or in prison for no reason, I`m sure he will strike again.
PINSKY: Erica?
BARNETT: I fear for Honey Boo Boo.
PINSKY: What do you think, Erica?
AMERICA: This is when reality TV gets just too real. This is too trashy, this is too real. Even the TV network is like, you know, we don`t want to
see this. Nobody wants to see another child get molested. It`s just - it`s too far.
PINSKY: You`re assuming this can happen.
AMERICA: I don`t blame - no, what I`m saying, is it`s too risky -- if in fact Mama June is hanging out with this guy, the fact that he did it ten
years ago is too risky to put a convicted child molester in the same space as the same age child.
PINSKY: All right. Perpetrators should never be around kids, they shouldn`t be around, you know, their previous victims.
AMERICA: Right.
PINSKY: There`s no way. But - and certainly the parents should be the ones protecting the children. But here now is more of grandma`s interview
with entertainment tonight. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that Mark McDaniel and your daughter, June, began seeing each other after he was released from prison?
HALE: Yes. Pictures don`t lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Mama June really not believe that Chickadee had been abused?
HALE: Yes, she was in denial and I feel she is still in denial. I said, there is no way anybody could have thought up what was -- what happened to
her unless it actually happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Karamo, do you think that grandma is on to something here?
BROWN: Yeah, Grandma is on to something, but I want to know why is Granny Boo-Boo not trying to step up and take custody? Why is she trying to put
her granddaughter on another ...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Karamo, I think, I think, Sam, didn`t she get Anna? Isn`t that what happened?
SCHACHER: Yeah, right. From what I understand, Anna went and lived with her as soon as her mother when she was eight years old, did not believe
her. And thank God for grandma.
PINSKY: Thank God.
SCHACHER: Because can you imagine if you were a parent and your daughter or son was molested, you find out and then you - you basically tell them
that, oh, it didn`t happen, or I don`t believe you, then you continue to date their perpetrator?
BROWN: That is horrible.
SCHACHER: I would want to murder them.
BROWN: So, why doesn`t Granny Boo-Boo go ahead and take this child? I don`t know her name, so I have to call her Granny Boo-Boo.
SCHACHER: She is 20. Oh, you mean.
BROWN: So, why don`t you take - why don`t you take Alana?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: That is my question.
PINSKY: That`s the age at which this guy aims his ...
BROWN: Another one ...
PINSKY: Affections.
BROWN: If you feel that this child is in danger, why don`t you take this child out of your home, step up like you did the first time and take this
child out. Because that`s my question. I`m not going to give my child to any man who`s named Sugar Bear. Sugar whoever.
PINSKY: Well, Sugar Bear.
BROWN: Grandma, step up.
PINSKY: Now, hang on. Sugar Bear was like a volunteer fireman, they made a lot of fun of him, but he used a pretty - sort of good, you know,
significant member of the community, my understanding is. Again, I don`t know, if I`ve met them, but I don`t really know them. Now, Mama June had
split from the biological father of Honey Boo Boo, that is Sugar Bear Thompson. Mike Sugar Bear Thompson. That was in September. They now have
been spotted frequently since this whole controversy broke out. So Vanessa, maybe he is the one, if the Karamo thinks it`s grandma, but maybe
the dad should be stepping in.
BARNETT: The dad ...
PINSKY: And shouldn`t be, by the way, be distancing himself from June while this is going on.
BARNETT: Look, these people are money hungry. He was more mad at the fact that the show got canceled and he wasn`t getting a paycheck, then he was -
that his child was inches, millimeters away from a convicted sexual offender. This family is disgusting. These people need to be in jail. I
don`t know why Mama June -- somebody should be beating on her door and wringing her neck. This is your child. You bring her on earth to protect
that person and you are putting her in harm`s way.
PINSKY: But it`s something. We don`t know, Erica, I`m going to let you sort of adjudicate this. Because there`s more going on here than we know.
We are looking from - what`s really going out. But here`s what - but Erica, let me just give you this one piece. And then you tell me what you
think.
AMERICA: Go ahead.
PINSKY: Each of the children, Mama June has four children. Each has a different daddy, and reports say that at least three of them have criminal
records that have landed them in prison. So Mama June`s picker not so good.
AMERICA: Right. Right, right. Her picker is wrong.
PINSKY: Broken.
AMERICA: Yes. I think - I think definitely she needs to not be on the reality show, because it was working for a while. OK, it was giving people
what they wanted. But now it`s really just sad and it`s not what people want to see. Because it`s about molestation - and really hard-looking -
she needs to be in therapy. And do the same people who put on the show want to help in that sense? Probably not. They are going to like kind of
let - let her go, but she needs hopefully friends and family that are going to help kind of put the system back together in a real way so that they can
get healthy. And I don`t know who is going to do that at this point.
PINSKY: But Erica, you made a great point. But you - there needs to be somebody who is going to help put this family together. And that is the
grandmother.
AMERICA: You mean the mother?
PINSKY: That is the mater of this family. She needs to step up. Why are you putting ...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Vanessa said it back. This man was more upset that the show was being canceled than the fact that his daughter was close to a man that was
a child molester.
His daughter is ...
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: There`s about to be some street justice in a minute. Because this is out of hand. This Sugar Bear needs to be mad at this molester.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Well, I think that the grandmother is doing a lot. And I think she deserves it - We should commend her.
PINSKY: You see how confused we get, though? Why isn`t Sugar Bear more upset? And why is - We don`t know the answers. This thing - there`s got
to be more to this story, but we`ll keep on it.
Next up, latest on Lena Dunham. She has set social media ablaze and we`ll get into it, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Judy and Karamo. Actress Lena Dunham start VH for "The Serious Girls." I am a fan. She is on the defensive
tonight. Excerpts from her new book reveals that she says she touched her younger sister many years ago, I believe she was seven. Some critics are
accusing her of describing, glorifying, dismissing molestation, child abuse. Sam, what is it that Lena wrote that got accusers so fired up?
SCHACHER: OK, Dr. Drew. Well, I have the writings right here. And in one passage Lena talks about an incident that happened when she was seven years
old and her sister Grace was a toddler. Lena writes that, her curiosity got the best of her, and she did something to her little sister that most
of us call playing doctor. Let`s just say she got a close-up view of her sister below the waist and then shrieked. Lena says her mom came running
outside, and she told her mother "Grace has something in there." And that her mother discovered that Grace had stuffed six or seven pebbles inside of
her, and that her mother removed the pebbles. Lena asked that her mother didn`t ask why she was playing doctor with her little sister because "this
was within the spectrum of things that I did."
PINSKY: She also - Sam, sort of made it seem that the toddler, this baby was sort of playing a joke on Lena, which is - Judy, that just doesn`t
happen. I mean toddlers do not have a notion of jokes. That doesn`t happen. So you have to ask, A, is this memory accurate? This thing about
pebbles in there is weird. And if it is accurate, what were the pebbles doing there, because it was not a joke. And by the same token, even if the
memory that Lena is describing is somehow distorted, or inaccurate, people do have a tendency to normalize traumatic events. So, how do we understand
all this?
HO: I`m so glad you brought all those points up, Dr. Drew. Because this is her trying to recall an event that happened to her when she was seven.
PINSKY: Impossible. Impossible
HO: Absolutely. I question the validity of those memories.
PINSKY: No way it`s accurate. It`s going to be somehow distorted, inaccurate let down - or changed over time. That`s just the way it is.
The way memories work.
HO: Absolutely. That`s how - exactly. That`s how memories work. It`s not a video playback. So we reconstruct it as we remember over and over
again. So, that`s number one. And it`s in a book designed to entertain. So, you know, I feel like there could be some exaggerations there that
could have happened to make the story a little bit more interesting. But here I think is the main point, which is the parents should have been
monitoring the two of them a little bit better.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. Good point.
HO: So, what the heck is going on here?
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: And so, this is - one of my problems, is like - Maybe Lena has never really known what is the normal behavior of actually playing doctor if she
wasn`t educated by her parents, hey, don`t do that to your sister.
PINSKY: Right. Right. Vanessa, what do you say?
BARNETT: But Lena does know what a sexual predator is and she compared herself to one. So, when you open that door ...
PINSKY: Sort of in an entertaining way.
BARNETT: There`s nothing funny about sexual predator, and I wouldn`t want to be compared to one whether we`re on Dr. Drew on call, or I`m in my home
in the kitchen, like that`s not just something I would call myself. But when you open that door, you`re going to get all types of criticism.
PINSKY: OK.
BARNETT: But at the end of the day, she is enjoying this, she is making money, and it`s ...
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: ... supposed to do.
PINSKY: All right. So you`re saying that she brought this on herself.
BARNETT: Absolutely. Karamo. The difference.
BROWN: I actually applaud Lena for this. I know that I`m going to get a lot of criticism for this, but I actually believe that this is going to be
a great lesson and a teaching moment for parents out there, because what happens that a lot of parents don`t realize that they need to be paying
closer attention to their children and what`s going on with them.
HO: Yes.
BROWN: Dr. Judy says this best, like maybe this - her parents should have been teaching her what are sexual boundaries, appropriate sexual
boundaries. What`s going on? Also distortion of her memories. There`s something else was going on.
PINSKY: Yeah.
BROWN: There was some type of trauma there that she had ...
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: And didn`t remember.
PINSKY: Right.
BROWN: That`s why she acted out on this - her little sister.
PINSKY: Or this is the sister had been traumatized in that moment and the older sibling was somehow affected by it and the memory becomes this kind
of funny, weird experience. But the fact is, maybe somebody did something to the little baby, Sam.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: We have no idea. This is - there`s no idea. I have no knowledge of any of this, I am just trying to understand this as somebody would
evaluate a primitive memory from early childhood. But Sam, people are really reacting out on Twitter, aren`t they?
SCHACHER: Oh, yes, Dr. Drew. Yes. They are. OK, so, well, first of all, with Lena, the last time I count, she fired off five tweets. One angry
tweet said, "Usually this is stuff I can ignore, but don`t demean suffers, don`t twist my words. Back the f up, bros." And then another tweet, "And
by the way, if you are a little kid and never looked at another little kid`s vagina, well, congrats to you."
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: So, I have a question for Judy then. What - When you`re seven years old, are you even aware of sexual boundaries? Would she even know
what she was doing?
PINSKY: Well, let me just say - I`ll let you answer. I`m going to answer first, because people ask me this question a lot with "Loveline," the show
I`ve done over the years. Playing doctor and looking at anatomy is different than doing something directedly sexualized. And adult sexual
behavior is completely unknowable to a child. They will not do it unless an adult has done something to them of that nature. And then they may act
out on other kids. But they will not do that spontaneously. Judy, you agree?
HO: Absolutely. And you know what, here`s the problem, Sam. To answer your question, most parents and most teachers are not educating our
children about what are the boundaries. You know, who should be touching your parts and what and which parts are not appropriate to be touched by
who. And so people don`t get this education and really, the research says we should be educating them as young as four years old. Some children
never get this education. I would expect that that was Lena`s case.
BARNETT: That`s why I was a big fan of that doll with the penis that we`ve talked about a few months ago. Big fan - you don`t remember, the doll ...
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Hello, this is why we need those dolls.
HO: I agree.
BARNETT: We need education, people.
HO: I agree.
PINSKY: It`s the difference between looking at anatomy and trying to understand the differences amongst boys and girls and doing something
sexualized. It`s very, very different. And I see nothing in her report that suggests something of an adult sexual behavior. So we`re going to
leave it at that. Thank you all for watching us. You can, of course, DVR us. And we are available to be watched anytime. Do that every day,
please, and we will be appreciative. "Forensic Files" is next.
END
