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Dr. Drew
Mother Threw Six-Year-Old Off a Bridge; Sex Education in Harvard; Glue to Keep Family Together
Aired November 05, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a mother accused of killing her autistic son by throwing him off a bridge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she was hearing voices of 6-year-old male in the water.
PINSKY: Now the mommy blogger is on suicide watch.
Also, sex controversy at Harvard University. Students taking a course in anal sex. We will explain.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. I`m here with my co-host Samantha Schacher. And we are reporting a 34-year-old mom charged with murder after
police say she threw her 6-year-old autistic son off a bridge, then she apparently called 911 herself to report it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a possible water rescue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Appearing in a suicide prevention vest, bail set at $1 million, accused mother, Jillian McCabe made her first court
appearance 18 hours earlier. Rescue crews had swarmed the bay after the 34-year-old called 911 and reported she had carried her 6-year-old child to
the middle of this bridge and thrown him off the edge into the cold water below.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Threw her son off the bridge. Said she was hearing voices of a 6-year-old male in the water and she can`t handle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: McCabe described hearing voices at the time of her son`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss McCabe, it`s very important for you not to talk to anybody about this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: McCabe was mostly silent during that video court appearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Very sad. Some of the photos were from Facebook.
Joining us Vanessa Barnet from hiphollywood.com, also have Leeann Tweeden, social commentator host "Tomboys Podcast on Black Talk Radio". And Kelvin
Washington, Social Commentator, radio host.
Sam, what else do we now?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER , HLN HOST: Dr. Drew, such a heart wrenching and disturbing story. But the drop from the Yaquina Bay bridge in New Port
Oregon is 133 feet. OK. The 6-year-old`s body was in the water for four hours before he was found. Members of Jillian`s family said she struggled
with mental illness. And Jillian`s husband was also diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and couldn`t work. Their marriage was strained for a
while, but as of recent it`s seems to of appeared to be on the mends.
PINSKY: About a year ago, the mom, Jillian sat down, Joie McCabe, she sat down for an interview about her difficulties. It was posted on YouTube.
Let`s have a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILLIAN MCCABE, LONDON`S MOTHER: I`m losing it a lot. But I`m holding it together. I have a severely autistic son and it`s been hard through the
years. And now I have a slightly disabled and amazing husband, and I feel alone and I feel like all of a sudden I`m this caregiver and I don`t feel
like a whole person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa, I found that interview kind of confusing. And this whole situation are confusing, too.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it was very confusing. Because first of all, there`s no reason to kill your child. And I know we`ve been
talking about mental illness. And typically I`m not one to get on board with such of vast term feel like it`s still need to be define so much. But
we do know she was -- she had documented mental illness. And they`ve really explore so many options, she just got several doors smacked in her
face. She tried to go to public assistance, private assistance. They tried to put her in facilities. They were out patient, they turn -- they
had to let her go because of what impermanent inpatient wouldn`t take her. So she really tries to figure that mental health issue while --
PINSKY: I`m going to tell you what Vanessa, we have to figure out what is this mental health issues. But beyond that, I don`t -- we are going to
devaluated a little bit further. But I bet you the resources that were provided to her were somehow restricted because of lack of insurance or
lack of state funding or something.
Leeann, you`re nodding your head, do you agree?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean Dr. Drew, you never kill your child. I`m sorry, you know my best friend, Danni, you`ve done our
Podcast, she has an autistic son and she loves that boy more than anything in this world and she would never ever, ever think about killing him. They
are always other options. And look, everybody deals with hardship.
My best friend has breast cancer, her daughter just had leukemia, but you don`t think about killing yourself or killing your child. There`s just
that`s not an option. I want to read something, a statement on the death of Linda McCabe from the "Autistic Self Advocacy Network."
"We urge the media to remember how reprehensible it is for a parent or caregiver to kill a child and to avoid framing murder children as burdens
to their family."
Never an excuse, just because you`re having a hard time or stressful time to kill your child. Never an excuse.
BARNETT: But you don`t ignore the fact that she has a mental health issue.
TWEEDEN: We don`t even know that.
PINSKY: We`ll get into that.
BARNETT: That`s a pivotal part of this story.
PINSKY: You know, I agree with you. Sam, do you agrees?
SCHACHER: I agree with Vanessa here. Listen, when I first heard the story, Leeann, I was on board with you, right. And we just saw a tweet
where somebody said, somebody throw -- throw her, this mother off the bridge. And I thought that, too. And then when I looked into her back
story and I saw she supposedly is suffering from a mental illness and has been kicked out of treatment or discharge from a number of different
treatment centers and her family members were on board with that --
PINSKY: Yes. Or left. Or left.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Hold on. But if that is the case, what a great example, a horrible example rather of how important it does -- it is for us in this
country to have better resources for mental health.
PINSKY: Absolutely -- Sam, you`re singing to the choir.
But I think Kelvin has would none any of this, is that right?
KELVIN WASHINGTON, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know what an interesting points have been made. Sam just brought up a great point that there`s
needs to be more mental health awareness, more funding towards that. But I find it peculiar, one thing that`s strange to me is where did the family --
not that they`re culpable, but where did they -- they knew she had some challenges.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: Did the family not want to jump in? When she says I sometimes think of doing a Thelma and Louise, we all know what that meant, driving
off the cliff.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
WASHINGTON: That`s a telltale sign. That was something she said behind closed doors, that was something she said publicly.
SCHACHER: Right.
WASHINGTON: So I`m a bit disturbed that maybe there wasn`t things done to take care of child and give her time to heal.
BARNETT: The family did.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You better hold on. Let me -- let me -- Vanessa, I want to read for you what one of the some, I guess one of the family members have
reported about her mental health issues. They did not specify what specifically they were, but they did say quote "very ill" unquote, and she
was supposed to be committed to a state hospital, which means some sort of very serious, chronic usually thought issue, like schizophrenia.
She was supposed to be there for six months. She ended up with in a residential facility but was discharged early. This is the part the people
need to be aware of. If -- everybody out there, she`s gone several months now without treatment. Anybody, if you are in a -- in a chronic or any
sort of facility and the professionals tell you that you need more care and you`ll have none of it or you have a hearing to get yourself out of it,
it`s going to go badly.
And families, you got to get consular ship (ph), you got to do whatever you can to get of these situations. A huge part of mental illness is a lack of
insight, a lack of awareness of your problem. So every decision you make it`s going to be influence by the sick brain. And that you can`t let
somebody do that themselves or their children as a result -- Vanessa.
BARNETT: And on top of that the families aren`t educated. Some people look at this person like, she looks better, maybe she is better. They
don`t know that that`s so much more going on inside of her head. They don`t know how to help. They don`t know --
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: Come on. The family admitted they knew she had issues.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: If your husband was diagnosed with M.S. high, complete stressors, maybe they go -- go and let us take the boy. Let us help you out a little
bit. Where is the family? Where is community?
PINSKY: Kelvin.
WASHINGTON: Do we question any motives with the videos that she was posting lately, kind of getting something out there so that if this tragedy
happened she could been possibly plead insanity. This is something that she could -- because we can all say, you know she --
TWEEDEN: She loves the attention, I`ll tell you that.
PINSKY: First of all, Kelvin, thank you for being ivy -- ivy tonight.
The Kelvin playing role this evening. And I appreciate that. Looking for the center sort every situation. It`s OK. But listen, let`s be careful
guys when you -- these are challenging difficult situations. When you blame the family, now we have more victims. We really do.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: We shouldn`t be blaming them.
TWEEDEN: The victim here is the child. Let`s not forget that.
BARTER: Absolutely.
SCHACHER: Of course.
PINSKY: Next. I`ve got more on the tragic story. The boy`s diagnosis, the father`s issues, the impact of it all, the Behavior Bureau is here.
And later, a woman gives quote "the gift of sex" unquote to her husband. She grants him relations every day for a year. Yes, we`re going to report
on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Accused mother, Jillian McCabe described hearing voices at the time of his son`s death.
MCCABE: I`m taking care of my son London and Matt full time. Luckily we are receiving unemployment from when Matt was laid off. I`m applying for
any and all assistance available. I need your help. I love my husband and he`s taking care of myself and my son for years and years and now it`s time
for me to take the helm. I`m scared and I`m reaching out. I hope I`m not coming across as trashy or over reactionary. I must explore every avenue
to take care of my family right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)f
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We`re talking about the mother, so-called accused of murder. Police say she threw her 6-year-old autistic son off a bridge.
Very sad story.
Let`s bring in the Behavior Bureau. Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University. Erica America, psycho-therapist, TV
Host. Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox."
I want to show you guys something. I interviewed Sheila Shea, this a mom who stabbed her 6-year-old son to death. Sheila was in a psychotic state,
hearing voices, she was ultimately found guilty by reason of insanity. But I want you to get a sense of how this going to happen. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEILA SHEA, MOTHER: I thought that if -- if I killed my kids and then killed myself, that there wouldn`t be anybody to hurt them. And I thought
that at least I would be merciful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So Judy, there you have a mom, so-called, who was in this psychotic state believing she was saving her children from some sort of
paranoid delusions she had by killing her son. She was going to kill everybody including herself. Is this likely to been same kind of thing?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST & PROFESSOR, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: I don`t think so, Dr. Drew. I think we have a couple of clues that would point to
something else happening in this case. I think one of it -- one of them is a desperation that this mom had in terms of the overwhelming responsibility
of caring for two disabled people in her family.
PINSKY: So stress, a lot of stress.
HO: Absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. All right. And what else?
HO: And so that`s number one. And number two is all of the lead-up for her to try to get at resources and having problems with it. There were
multiple records of her reaching out to private and public sources of mental health care and financial care and she was denied all of them.
PINSKY: Well, that`s see -- that -- that makes me suspect. Wendy, I worry that a, there is not adequate resources but I also worry people aren`t
taking advantage of what`s there. I mean she goes to a crowd cheering site, they`re opening peace talks about crowd sharing financial site.
Right Sam? Where she`s trying to raise money. Oregon does not have mental health resources, of course they do.
SCHACHER: Well, she was going to ucaring.com and asking for $50,000. Because remember her husband was just diagnosed because she --
PINSKY: But they`re living apart tough. And then he had M.S. and somebody else was taking care of him.
SCHACHER: Well, at that point she was -- she felt that she needed help to --
PINSKY: But no, I understand -- I get it, but Wendy, you get what I`m getting out here? I mean she was not using the system that she like.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: She wasn`t using the system Dr. Drew because she didn`t have the ability to even understand the system or how to
take advantage of it. This is a woman suffering from mental illness. Let me tell you, I have a Ph.D. and I worked so hard to get services from my
daughter that a little bit in the spectrum. And it nearly killed me to figure out the system, OK.
SCHACHER: There you go. Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
WALSH: So just, imagine somebody who`s suffering from a mental illness who may not have the resources or education to take be able take advantage of
the services that are there. But she knows crowd sourcing because that`s available for her.
PINSKY: Well, because that`s sort of the social media thing. People talk about that but they don`t talk about this sort of intricacy or the
bureaucracy of the mental health system.
Erica, all you guys have a really interesting stick in look, but Erica, you especially.
ERICA AMERICA, HOST AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, I think this was actually a kind, devoted mother who really was trying her best to deal with these
mounting stressors between her husband and her son. As she was reaching out, she even said literally on YouTube that she was suicidal.
Everybody tried to kind a help her. Unfortunately it didn`t work out. And I think she became psychotic at to the point where she was having, you know
delusion, hallucinations, voices and she was doing just like that interview you`ve shown, exactly that.
PINSKY: But -- right.
AMERICA: She threw him off because -- do I think she did it on purpose, no. Of course is she still guilty of doing it? Yes, it`s horrible but I
think she was insane at the time.
PINSKY: But Judy, your sort of saying, Yes, it`s because -- I mean, don`t you think even we`re under pressure or whatever --
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: You eventually got some sort of psychotic form of thinking. My other question for everybody, does everybody know what a suicide vest is?
They said -- they said it they have she had a suicide vest on. I don`t know what that even is. Do you guys know?
HO: No, that was weird.
PINSKY: That was weird. So Judy, you`re shaking your head no about this psychosis theory that Erica propose.
HO: Yes. I don`t think that is necessary.
PINSKY: There`s the vest.
HO: They`re playing out here, I think the stress of what she was going through could have made her so desperate to get rid of something that she
can no longer take care of, right?
PINSKY: Well, that`s little -- Sam.
HO: And that`s her child.
SCHACHER: That`s the horrible thing to think about.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: My God. OK. So question to the panel, if she was suffering from hearing voices and delusions, are you in the right frame of mind to
know to ask for help? Or you completely relies on others around you.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Look. I think Wendy makes a great point. I hate the bureaucracy of government. Wendy, I hats off to you for trying working it. But I
can`t imagine if you were sick, it would be almost impossible.
SCHACHER: Right.
WALSH: Yes. It was very, very much impossible for me. It took me two years, Dr. Drew, of battling the system and being turned away. And I have
smarts and availability and it was very difficult. So my heartbreaks for this women and I feel like we all sort of failed her.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Now, the husband, Matt wrote about the marriage and the challenge of having an autistic son and his multiple sclerosis diagnosis, getting off
with sclerosis is or auto immune attack on certain parts of the brain. You all see him in social media to express his feelings. This is from his
blog. Quote "some of you know and some of you don`t, Jillian and I we`re living apart right now. Life happens. We`re still together but leaving
apart. This is been very difficult but life is unique." Right, Sam? I don`t, I ---
SCHACHER: My only question, Dr. Drew, in all of this, if the family knew, and believe me, I don`t want to slam this family because after the research
that I saw, they did try to help her get some treatment.
PINSKY: They tried. Yes.
SCHACHER: But why, would she allowed custody of this child if they knew that she was suffering?
PINSKY: Boy, that`s a big question.
SCHACHER: And where did the father step in, in all of this?
PINSKY: Here`s the -- for anybody at home trying to make sense, there`s two take home messages. A, stigma kills, everybody. Stigma about mental
illness kills. If you can`t step up and say I`m suffering from mental illness and I need help, it can really harm people. Or if you go to a
facility and I don`t really want to stare, because I don`t need this, that`s responding to stigma. That`s number one.
Number two, actually three points, resources are hard to come by, particular my for mental health. People don`t seems to understand how --
how profoundly dangerous these conditions are.
And then finally, if you do get resources and you have professional team giving you advice, listen to the letter of what they tell you. Do not just
cut corners and think you know better. It`s going to end up in a disaster.
Next up, we have something called sex week at Harvard University. It`s a controversy on campus. They specifically have a course, yes, everybody, a
course, on anal sex. And that`s creating quite a bit of controversy.
And later the gift, that keeps on giving. A couple, a wife that offers a relations for year, a surprise birthday gift for her husband. To knot, or
not or continue or whatever back to this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Kelvin. This now is the most tweeted story tonight, it`s so-called sex week at Harvard University.
Student groups are offering classes and seminars that deals with everything from Kinkynacy (ph), intimate relations.
All right Sam, what is on the --- sorry to become Greg Bre (ph) -- what is on the syllabus this week?
SCHACHER: OK, Dr. Drew. Let`s see, we`ve got brown girls do it well. A Queer Diaspora Remix, Sexy and I know it, Losing your concept of Virginity,
Jungle Fever On Exotification, 50 shades of false kink, fantasy and fetish and love at first swipe, online hookup culture.
PINSKY: And then we caught our produce`s eye, is what in the butt, anal sex 101. Here is the reenactment of the description of the class. Here
you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come learn everything about anal sex from the experts of good vibrations, a sex-positive store located right in Brookline. They
will dispel myths about anal sex and give you insight and to why people do it and how to do it well. They will cover a wide variety of topics,
including anal anatomy and the potential for pleasure for all genders, how to talk with a partner, basic preparation and hygiene, lubes, anal toys,
and safer sex, anal penetration for beginners and much more.
Learn the facts about this exciting yet often misunderstood form of pleasure. Find out the common mistakes people make and get all your
questions answered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a reenactment. And I don`t really know what to say -- Vanessa.
(LAUGHTER)
BARNETT: Well, first of all, what in the butt is actually a song. It should have been Grammy nominated or something goes with what in the butt,
what, what it can hide. I feel like, I have to give it to you.
PINSKY: All right. We`re good. All right, thank you. I don`t get in light but I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Secondly, I am so on board with this. I love this.
PINSKY: You`re on board with it?
BARNETT: I am. Because I still like sex education needs to be revamped and just changed up, swish up because if you -- you`ve got to keep one the
Jones and the Jones, unfortunately or fortunately are having anal sex. And I just want to apologize to my grandmother because it`s her birthday and I
know she`s watching. And I`m so sorry about this conversation. But look, if you don`t want to know about anal sex don`t enroll in the courses,
that`s simple. But simple fact that there is a course lets us know that people are curious, they want to know more and they want to explore more.
PINSKY: But-- all right. Let me ask Leeann, do we -- Harvard University has to put this on? Can`t they go online to any of go kinds of places?
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
PINSKY: Or couldn`t they go to that -- that store -- the sex store? They`ve sure they would put also symposium.
TWEEDEN: OK. First of all, Harvard University, Ivy League, the best and brightest of the world are being taught at Harvard University. And you`re
going to tell me that our young of becoming academics that are young adults, (INAUDIBLE) need to have anal courses about lube and toys and what
they need to do?
I think, Harvard needs to worry about educating their students. They are not educating among sex education. Let`s face it, these are young kids,
they`re all online. I`m sure that this is not the first time that they ever looked it up, been curious about it, look it up on Google, or look it
up on YouTube. Why does Harvard need to be doing it?
PINSKY: Sam.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: That`s right., that`s my question.
SCHACHER: I rather then receive it -- but Harvard is it -- it`s an institution for education. And rather than --
TWEEDEN: Anal education?
PINSKY: But Sam --
SCHACHER: I would rather them -- hold on let me finish my statement. I rather them learn about how to engage in anal sex safely rather than
looking it up on Google, Dr. Drew.
Listen, does everybody is having all kinds and different types of sex. And I`m not just talking about single people or heterosexual couples. What
about same-sex couples. Why can`t they go if they`re interested in doing this in a very safe and responsible way, why can`t they be provided that
education? And thank God my parents have dish network.
PINSKY: But -- Kelvin, Kelvin there is -- Harvard has one of the top medical schools in the country. They go bigger balloons hospital and they
can get professionals to come in and give them all the training with the clinical background to help them understand really, deeply the potential
problems with this.
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: That I agree with.
WASHINGTON: Yes. Well, you know, to Sam`s point, to each his own. Some people, that`s what they do. I would not be an expert in this particular
topic. But --
(CROSSTALK)
WASHINGTON: I do say, you know education is always a good thing. However, to Leeann`s point, we could be doing so much more with this
Harvard education. We could be curing Ebola, we can help out with the economy right now, we could be doing so many other better things with this
Harvard education. I understand that young people, you know need to understand how to pleasure -- enjoy pleasurable things. But this is must
be a bit much --
PINSKY: I`m with Kelvin. Vanessa is still has to have her way with this one.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Go ahead.
BARNETT: If you`re going to learn, you want to learn from the best. And outside Harvard University --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Vanessa, I`m going to talk to one of the students that put this on in a second. That`s my grave concern about this is it, it`s not being
supervised by health professionals. And we`ll talk to her and how she`s dealing with the controversy.
And later, daily sex for a year. Take our poll at Facebook page, our Facebook page Dr.DrewHLN, whether or not for a year every day would be a
good thing or not. Would you do this? We have a spouse that does it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 50 Shades of False. Kink, fantasy and fetish, we`ll explore supposedly taboo topics in sexuality, namely the kinky. Munch,
Harvard`s kink and alternative sexuality group, will run a presentation on kink through the lens of the ever popular Fifty Shades of Grey.
This presentation will attempt to expose and attempt to correct inaccuracies and the box portrayal of kink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, I hope they get into more than just the inaccuracies and the kink, because that book, I`ve got tons of problems with it. But that, of
course, was an re-enactment. And back to Sam and our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica and Wendy. That was one of the many classes that Harvard
University`s annual sex week offers. The another class that`s causing controversy, we discussed that in the last segment was - according to
Vanessa, from the song, "What, what in the butt." Anal sex 101.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Now, Wendy, I`m going to - again, I`m going to talk to the woman that organized this, my concern is, I`m not clear that it is being
supervised by student health or be prevented - or being presented by health professionals.
WENDY WALSH: I agree with you, Dr. Drew. I think that using the sexy, exciting headlines are wonderful, because it lures in these young people.
If they want to call it "50 Shades of Grey," which I call it "50 Shades of Abuse," or "What, what in the Butt," whatever, they can certainly do that
in order to get them to show up and then slide in the education and good medical knowledge.
PINSKY: Erica, would you have gone to something like that back in college?
AMERICA: OK. Yeah, well, I just found out in the last segment that this wasn`t really being run by Harvard University, in that statement. So that
kind of changes my view a little bit. But before I saw that, I was saying thanks to Nikki Minaj, Kim Kardashian, everything is about the booty these
days. People are talking about it, people are talking about anal sex and why not have it at Harvard University, such a prestigious place, talking
about it in an educational way. I think there`s nothing wrong with it. .
PINSKY: But Erica, if you were in college, you would show up to one of these classes?
(LAUGHTER)
AMERICA: Yeah, I think I would, I think I would just to find out, because I don`t know anything about it. So, yeah .
(CROSSTALK)
AMERICA: I`d rather then - like someone said, Google about it - I wouldn`t trust that. I would trust Harvard.
PINSKY: Wendy?
WALSH: Harvard wants to make sure that tomorrow`s world leaders reach their full potential without a perforated bowel.
PINSKY: Well .
AMERICA: There you go.
PINSKY: Again, I don`t want to get into the specific - I`m not sure it`s the place for .
AMERICA: But everyone is a real person .
SCHACHER: You are a doctor. You - people that have sex.
PINSKY: I know, I am thinking about the blood supply of the area and what you guys need - what people would need to know about it. But it`s not like
- result in perforation. Judy, help me with this.
HO: OK. Well, I think it`s awesome that it`s at Harvard, because they are actually the premiere institution to be able to do this. But it is -
that`s - but it`s not involving the health care professionals. They actually have .
PINSKY: And - not just the health care professionals, Judy, but there is so much about this, this is about the interpersonal experience. I mean you
guys as mental health professionals should be especially concerned about it. It`s an opportunity to talk about those nuances and difficulties and
why people do certain things and what - how people can be re-traumatized by these experiences.
HO: That`s right.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: But Dr. Drew, if the course what, what in the butt was led by health care professionals, would you see this differently?
PINSKY: I would.
SCHACHER: Fair enough.
PINSKY: And that`s why - that`s why I`ve asked Kirin Gupta, she is a junior in Harvard University, she is the co-founder of the group that
organized the event. So, Karen, do you have - who - I`ve got so many questions. And I`m confused about a lot of things. Who is teaching these
courses?
KIRIN GUPTA, CO-ORGANIZER HARVARD SEX WEEK: OK. So this course is actually run by health care professionals, it just happens to be a sex
educator who works at the - good vibrations, started as a sex education.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Because here there`s a giant difference - between a health educator and a clinically trained professional. Tied
entirely different things. And so, here you have a health educator jumping in there and you didn`t understand that that`s somebody has any clinical
experience. But go ahead, so was this received, was it controversial, was it something that went over well?
GUPTA: So, sex week is a week-long initiative. And it starts with a panel that`s led by clinicians, from the university health services.
PINSKY: OK, that`s more like it.
GUPTA: And that`s - that`s sex-ed workshop. And so, that is - that`s like the introduction, all - (INAUDIBLE) in forms of NCC and sexuality that we
are going to talk about throughout the week.
PINSKY: OK. So, there is your clinical team. So, they ...
GUPTA: I have a question.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Wendy, what?
WALSH: Well, you know, there`s so much emphasis on heightened sexuality and frequent sexuality and variety of sexuality. Do you also cover those
that try to practice virginity or asexual behavior? Is that considered pathological or is that something you also teach?
PINSKY: Good question.
GUPTA: So, the second workshop after the first - with clinician is absolutely, I`m a virgin and an abstinence workshop. And so, that ran on
Monday night.
AMERICA: Great.
GUPTA: So, that workshop .
PINSKY: Erica, you have -- I`m sorry, I`m looking at our panel that`s respond to you while you are talking - Erica, you seem to have a little
distaste for this. What are you thinking? Or you looked like it. Maybe I`m wrong.
AMERICA: No, distaste?
PINSKY: Well, you looked a little.
AMERICA: No, no, I was just - I just think this was interesting. I would just think that I think it`s great that they`re doing - you know, I just -
I was - I thought this was all run by health professionals. And so I would have been a little more on board with that. But I think it also makes
sense what she`s saying and I think that they are providing a wide variety of anal sex and virginity. Yes.
PINSKY: Judy?
WALSH: That`s the range.
PINSKY: Judy?
HO: I was just going to say, this is actually great. You use this in conjunction with its - app like tender - because then you guys can be
people who are like minded in your sexual abstinence or your sexual approach.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Again, we`re getting into territory that I`m not so sure is this good territory.
WALSH: But wait, what about virgins that have anal sex? Is that`s why they are doing .
AMERICA: Oh, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But you know what - but you know what, Kirin, let me ask you this, that`s one of the sort of -- you know, love light over the years, I`ve
talked to many young people with specific - particular people have certain religious orientations will reserve their virginity for that kind of
behavior, and it`s really problematic. Did you get into any of that?
GUPTA: OK, so what we do, well, we know we talk about sexuality and sexual practices (INAUDIBLE). Initiative. And I do - I do want to be clear about
that.
We do involve a lot of clinicians. We have (INAUDIBLE) who come and talk to us, they always have your (INAUDIBLE), work with us, and we work with
our university health services.
(INAUDIBLE)
GUPTA: Sexual - working on sexual assault and violence prevention. And we work at all of the different - (INAUDIBLE) and then adult services.
PINSKY: OK, I`m feeling - I`m feeling, just FYU, I just - if I could say, I`m feeling a lot better about this whole thing.
SCHACHER: Me too.
WALSH: It sounds very sex positive.
PINSKY: Well, not only sex positive, but the nuances are being explored, the clinical realities are being explored. And then again, the aggression,
sexual aggression against women is so massive on campus. Now, you can`t - into the fact you are getting into that, again, hats off. My question to
you, though, is what kind of criticism have you been getting and how have you been responding?
GUPTA: So, we`ve been responding to a lot of the criticism in coming in, because I think it`s been very singular and focused on this idea that the
what, what in the butt workshop is the only workshop - and being - the only class that`s being given and people are not looking at Harvard sex week as
the holistic enterprise, but teach - over this weekend involves. And we are inviting in different discussions on different forms of sexual decision
making, and what - have respect - to get here to do, is to open the dialogue and sexuality and intimacy on our campus, and talk about sex and
sexual practices in a way that condone any one type of sexual decision making, and what (INAUDIBLE) to get here to do, is to open the dialogue on
sex, sexuality and intimacy on our campus and talk about sex and sexual practices in a way that condone any one type of sexual decision making, but
just emphasizes that all of it needs to be done with regard to consent, to your own needs, to your partner`s needs, if you have a sexual partner and
if you don`t, that`s fine also. But all of it needs to be done in a way that`s consensual.
PINSKY: Erica?
GUPTA: That we are all working constantly .
AMERICA: Yeah.
GUPTA: About - and .
AMERICA: No, Kirin, you`re awesome. You are so well-spoken and very intelligent, everything, but come on, you name that - you knew that people
were going to like kind of - be up in arms with that name, "What, what in the butt?" It could have just been called like anal sex. And I think that
one even get as much as - what, what in the butt. So, like I think you guys sort of, kind of named it knowing that it will get a lot of attention.
PINSKY: I would sort of - fall that - in terms of getting attention. But maybe they had - you know, wanted to get the kids in the door .
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: You know, to do some provocative, to get this discussion going. What do you say?
GUPTA: Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say that we - that there are definitely a few things about sex week that are very intentionally
provocative, because we do want to bring people into the door, we want to bring people into the room and we want people to be excited to talk about
this and to not be ashamed to talk about sex and sexuality. Because I think one of the worst - one of my worst fears for college campuses is that
sex was something, it was only talked about in a shameful way. People go out and they seek it, either online or in dark places or at parties. And
that`s how a lot of the sexual aggression on our camp happened. And how a lot of sexual violence takes place is people aren`t willing to have frank
and open discussions about why is this happening.
PINSKY: Sam.
GUPTA: I do not want the students on my campus to be getting all the information they get about anal sex from viral .
CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Kirin .
PINSKY: Right. Right. Right.
SCHACHER: I agree with you, it`s so important. Kirin, what has been the student body reaction, are they involved in sex week?
GUPTA: So I have to - I have though -- I went to the workshop yesterday. And it was really fascinating for me to see the entire lacrosse team in the
same room with the entire group of the career students - group on our campus.
SCHACHER: Wow.
GUPTA: I think I`ve never seen both of those organizations in the same room.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: All right, well, that`s good. All right, listen. Kirin, thank you for clearing this up. I was starting from a not so happy place and I`m
feeling much better, more better about your - the week you have organized. So hats off to you for that. And next up, new topic about sex and
sexuality. We have a woman who had sex with her husband every day for a year. And why she thinks that`s the perfect gift for any couple. Back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sharla Moore set out to have sex with her husband every day for a year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I turned her down, actually, if you can believe that. I wasn`t sure she was serious and had completely - thought through the
ramifications of what she was offering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intimacy had really slipped off our priority list. And this was a way, albeit a kind of wacky and wild way, to put that back
at the top of the list again. We ended up averaging between 26 and 28 days a month. Sex every day is not a long term sustainable model, but neither
is intimacy hardly ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Leeann, Kelvin and joining us, Emily Morse, sex-relationship expert, host of "Sex with Emily podcast on iTunes. And
that woman you just heard, that last statement she made was packed with a ton of information and questions. She gave her husband 365 days of sex for
his 40th birthday. Before that, she says they were having it just twice a month, at the end of the year they averaged -- after this year that she
gave him, they were - managed to maintain 26 times a month. So 26 out of 30 days. So, Emily, is this a good model? She said something interesting,
she said it`s hard to sustain intimacy 365 days a year. I think she meant emotional intimacy. And then she said this model, it was such a strange
way of putting it, model of 365 days of sex is not necessarily a good model.
EMILY MORSE, SEX & RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: No, it`s - yes, and I think this would scare many people away. I am thinking - I can`t - We`re lucky if we
can do it once a month, not 365 days.
PINSKY: Once a month does not sound good either.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MORSE: Couples, they put sex on the back burner. They deprioritize intimacy. And people - couples need to be intimate at a healthy growing
relationship, but yet, they don`t realize that, you know, the kids, they have kids, they have work, they have other things - in their life, and they
just think we`ll get back to sex. And then too much time passes and they`re no longer intimate and then it`s a disaster.
PINSKY: Well, so, Emily, just right there what you were saying, Leeann was really responding to that. Like kids - back burner? Oh my god.
TWEEDEN: Laundry.
PINSKY: Laundry.
(LAUGHTER)
TWEEDEN: But then not long .
PINSKY: Deployment.
TWEEDEN: He said it`s - yeah, deployment, well not sex, you know. You are kind of separated by force, but .
But that one tweet said it sounded like a mutual gift. We thought this is interesting. And Dr. Drew, you and I have talked about this before.
PINSKY: Yeah.
TWEEDEN: Sometimes I think, you know, fake it till you make it. Sometimes you don`t always feel like it. You are tired, you both had a hard day at
work, you put the kids to bed. You make dinner. You are really tired, you are really exhausted, but sometimes you just need to be intimate with your
partner, for both of you. It`s good for your relationship, it`s good for your health. It`s like - oh, yes, this is why we had a child. This is why
we do - I`m not saying 365 days a year, because I don`t think that`s realistic for any relationship. But one time a month, you`re right, Dr.
Drew, that`s a problem, too.
PINSKY: And I think as - Emily, you`re saying the same thing Leeann is saying, right?
MORSE: I`m saying that you absolutely have to prioritize your intimacy and your sex in your relationship. Because couples, everything else is
prioritized, the children, their life, their work. But what people don`t realize is that when you do not prioritize intimacy, your relationship will
fall apart, because it is the glue to your relationship.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: I agree. Listen, I think that having sex in a relationship is pivotal. But 365 days, Dr. Drew, how exhausting. I mean, can she give me
some of her stamina, please?
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: To be honest, it was 28 out of 31.
PINSKY: But Kelvin, how dare these women gang up on us like this, Kelvin? How dare they?
KELVIN WASHINGTON: How dare they? Sam, Sam, I believe in you. I think you can do this.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: 365 days?
WASHINGTON: You know.
MORSE: Sam, you are .
WASHINGTON: I think you have it in you. But I`ll say this, Dr. Drew, as the residential man on this particular panel, right on, lady!
This is -- I`m proud of her. I think - no, but anybody who has been married, or is married, they understand that you do get busy. You know,
you do put things to the back burner. It`s amazing how when you were younger, you thought you know, I would never would do that. Sex is so
important. But it does happen. I appreciate that she said while doing this, it actually helped them in other parts of their relationship or grew
the intimacy not just physically, but also between them, it better connected them. So, I appreciate that, but I figure all women watching
this should go ahead and try it. Just give it a try.
(LAUGHTER)
WASHINGTON: There`s nothing wrong with trying.
PINSKY: That`s right.
SCHACHER: Let`s start with 30 days.
PINSKY: Emily - wants to say something there, but people do - you and I - Emily - on Loveline once a week, and you and I have heard crazy stuff where
people think, oh, a threesome is going to make this better or I`ll get him a stripper. Those are horrible ideas. This is not a horrible idea.
MORSE: No, this is - this is not a horrible idea. What I also want to say is, intimacy doesn`t just mean that you`re having intercourse with your
partner. It can mean that you kiss each other again before work, or before you go to sleep at night, you hold hands. You give each other massages.
It doesn`t have to be sex. It`s just - intimacy means so many other things.
PINSKY: It`s going to lead there.
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: Hopefully it will!
SCHACHER: Does intimacy mean cuddling on the coach watching lifetime movies? Does that count?
MORSE: You know, probably may be turn off the TV sometimes in that conversation .
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Sam, come on, Sam.
SCHACHER: I`m kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sam, Sam, I know you need some advice, but Emily will be available after the show.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Next up, next up well you`re going to watch the - with Mark. That`s what you are going to do.
Next up, what you are saying about this, the sex for an entire year model? Plus, the results of our poll online on our Facebook page. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Can you really do it right if you are doing it every day like that? I mean doing it right takes a lot of time, efforts and candles and
wine. All kinds of things. Could you really - yeah, go ahead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would disagree.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean I think that one of the things that we learned over the course of the year, and I think that that`s what is reflected in
365 nights, is that real intimacy, you know, is driven by real life. And real life isn`t candles and wine every night. Sometimes real life is a
quickie for lack of a better word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Leeann, Kelvin, Emily. And I like the way the husband looked at her. Like what you mean - it was great - you know - what
are you talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
MORSE: And quickies are fine too, man.
PINSKY: All right. So, the question is, could you have sex with your .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: How dare you.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Could you have sex with your partner every day for a year? You can take our poll on our Facebook page. We will give you the final results
during the after show on our Facebook page. Right now, almost 60 percent of you say no, you could not do this for 365 days. Sam, what else are you
getting on social media?
SCHACHER: OK, oh my gosh. I have so many funny things - posts and tweets. But from Janet, "After the year is up, I get the rest of the marriage off,
right?"
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: From Joy, it would get real boring and mechanical very quickly.
PINSKY: Well, stop with that one, because Emily, that`s the one a lot of people sort of came up with, how do people avoid that if they are making
the effort?
MORSE: If they`re making the effort, that`s great they`re making the effort. There`s so many different ways in you can spice up your
relationship. The problem, and one of the reasons, why people like put sex on the back burner, is because they get bored, sex gets routine in a
relationship. So try something new, do something different. Have sex outside the bedroom.
I mean there`s so many different .
PINSKY: Go to Kirin Gupta`s Harvard University classes on this.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Kelvin, what do you say?
MORSE: So take some classes, do whatever you can do. People are always so surprised that it gets routine. Because it`s so amazing the first six to
12 months of a relationship. And I think that the only one suffering, oh my god, it`s not good anymore. Well, guess what, it happens to every
couple and they don`t like to think that sex might take a little bit of work.
PINSKY: Kelvin.
SCHACKER: It would.
WASHINGTON: What is - I mean you just - you just said, it, spice it up, do something, some roll playing. You know.
TWEEDEN: Sexy lingerie.
WASHINGTON: Yeah, some sexy lingerie. Maybe - maybe for us guys we are watching the game, maybe you could ...
SCHACHER: That`s a foreplay.
(CROSSTALK)
WASHINGTON: You turn off the game and you say the fourth quarter is now, baby. I don`t know, you do something like that. You just get it going. I
think honestly, I think this is a great idea. I think everyone should get an A for effort for just trying this.
MORSE: Agreed.
WASHINGTON: I disagree with all the people who are saying this is boring. Just give it a shot.
PINSKY: Sam, what else you got there?
SCHACHER: OK, but Dr. Drew, first, do you come out in your scrubs and your stethoscope, does that ever happen?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yeah, I do again, you - Sam to the next .
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: It`s the best show, it`s a pretty primitive medical practice. Well, that`s a really scary.
PINSKY: That`s the role play.
MORSE: Whatever works?
PINSKY: But Sam, what else you got?
SCHACHER: OK, I have - from Judy, absolutely. Did so every day for many years, married 44 years.
PINSKY: Wow.
SCHACHER: And from Michai, if you eat cake every day, it`s no longer dessert, it just becomes sustenance.
PINSKY: You think Michai is a male or a female, Kelvin?
WASHINGTON: Michai is a male who is not excited with his wife anymore. I think it`s .
SCHACHER: Somebody`s bitter.
MORSE: Party of one.
PINSKY: And Emily, you bear me up on this. That`s a sad thing when people get to that point. They have to really pay attention, as you said earlier,
it is the glue.
MORSE: It is the glue, and if you don`t have it - then you are just roommates. And people thinking that - I think the most important part of
the story, everyone is getting caught up in the 365 days. What I really think is this is drawing attention to the fact that I think we`re in
crisis, a lot of marriages are in crisis sexually and they don`t want to look at it. They don`t want to look at the fact.
WASHINGTON: That`s a good point. Really good point.
PINSKY: That`s right. To get the sign of trouble. But Leeann, you just saw your favorite tweet.
TWEEDEN: Once a day? I do it three to four times a day with my husband.
Oh my gosh.
MORSE: I saw that, too.
TWEEDEN: Wow! I think you and I both giggled, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: There`s some - there could be some physical trouble that comes along with that.
(CROSSTALK)
WASHINGTON: Wendy told me that as she left the room. She said, keep this in mind. I said, oh, OK. Women do need some time off. Let`s just say
that.
PINSKY: There you go. And thank you, guys. DVR us any time. DVR us - and you can watch us anytime, and guess what, "Forensic Files" follows now.
END
