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Dr. Drew
New Details on Dramatic Abduction; Former Cheerleader Accused of Raping 15-Year-Old Boy; Mother Shaves Daughter`s Head, Posts Picture on Facebook
Aired November 06, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, new information in the dramatic rescue of a woman, her violent abduction caught on tape.
POLICE: We never know who is living amongst us.
PINSKY: Why police are calling this man a vicious predator.
Also, a former NFL cheerleader accused of having sex with a teenage boy. The behavior bureau looks at claims she flirted with him on Instagram and
took him to her beach house.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher. We`re here with this evening.
Coming up, a mom who shaved her kid`s head as a punishment, Sam.
SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew.
And this is our most tweeted about story of the day. Later, we`re actually going to hear from the mom`s sister.
PINSKY: All right. But, first up, we are talking about that Philadelphia woman whose kidnapping was all caught on camera. She`s been found alive,
the suspect in custody. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carlesha Freeland has been rescued. Her abductor arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Philadelphia kidnapped on Sunday now found alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks to a tip and a GPS on the suspect`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Carlesha was grabbed and thrown in that car, she fought like hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She tries to walk away when the man grabs her and aggressively grabs her down the length of this block.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been on the job 46 years. First time I`ve ever seen a kidnapping on videotape. We were able to locate some video from a
convenience store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, when police realized they were looking for Devlin Barnes, they were able to trace using his GPS.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I buy a car and now the dealer can put this GPS on my car and track me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it legal to put these GPS devices on cars?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the subject exited the vehicle, he was apprehended. And that`s when Ms. Freeland was recovered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can tell she was emotionally distraught. So, as a result, we took her immediately to the hospital.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Sam, I`m going to bring the panel in on a second.
But why do people -- why are people disturbed by having a GPS on a car if they are going to make their payments and not be of any concern to anyone,
why get upset about that?
SCHACHER: I think people think it`s invasive, though, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: It is invasive. So pay your bills.
SCHACHER: Right, I agree.
PINSKY: Don`t kidnap people.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: All right. Thank God there was something on that car.
Let`s talk to the panel. I`ve got Kayleigh McEnany, political commentator, Mark Eiglarsh from SpeaktoMark.com, Anahita Sedaghatfar from
AnahitaLaw.com.
So, Sam, let`s go through it again. How did the police get this guy?
SCHACHER: Oh, thank God they found him.
First, the police released the abduction video to the public, right? Then the suspect has the audacity to use the victim`s ATM card 75 miles away and
caught on video again. The video was released of the suspect at the convenience store.
Then, the person who sold the suspect his car recognizes him, calls the police. Police were able to track the car because the dealer had installed
that GPS device on it because Barnes had such bad credit and it would make it easier to repossess it if need.
PINSKY: Now, this guy already was a wanted man in Virginia. You got to hear this story. I want to share this story with the audience. Mark and
Anahita, my attorneys, stand by and tell me how you allow a guy like this to go out of prison. What`s wrong with our system?
He allegedly kidnapped a 16-year-old girl by hitting her head with a shovel. Police say he then stuffed her in the trunk of the car, raped her,
doused her with bleach and gasoline, set her on fire and dug a hole and said, quote, how do you want to die? Amazingly, this girl managed to
escape, she ran two miles through the woods to a local business and police just revealed some new details about the incident just moments ago.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POLICE: The victim had very traumatic injuries. He showed her a bunch of pictures of females and told her he had done this to them before. I think
she said something that she was in imminent danger. She was doused in gasoline and bleach. She said she had never seen that guy before the
incident occurred.
She stayed with her family in the hospital apparently doing rehab, and she`s doing well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: One of his victims.
Now, there`s more on this guy`s rap sheet. He has 45 pages of over 90 previous offenses, including rape, robbery, assault.
I mean, Mark, how does anybody defend this guy?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: OK. Merely because someone`s been arrested doesn`t mean they`ve done anything. And I`m not suggesting he`s choir boy.
What I`m suggesting is, you can`t throw him into prison unless you have a conviction. And I would like to go through each one of those and I might
be able to explain.
PINSKY: Hold on, hold on. I am going to get my producers to fax them over to you so you can go through each one of them. They`re outrageous.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: He`s right, Dr. Drew. Mark is absolutely right, that what I was telling you earlier when talking about this case.
That doesn`t mean he was necessarily convicted of all of those crimes. I think a lot of those were misdemeanors. The issue I have is when people
ask me, as a defense attorney, how can it be that these career criminals are on the street?
Well. I can only surmise he did the crime, he served his time. If people had been issue and they want tougher sentencing, they want stricter rules,
then you go to your legislature, but you don`t question defense attorneys as to where these career criminals are out.
PINSKY: Mark?
EIGLARSH: One other thing as we discussed during other cases, the question is, did prosecutors have sufficient evidence? Maybe he was accused of
something heinous, but you have a reluctant victim, the bus load of nuns didn`t show up to testify at trial, so you have a weak case and they`re
forced to give him credit for time he served.
PINSKY: He spent nine years in jail for beating his ex-wife.
Kayleigh McEnany, help me out with this.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Go ahead.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY: I completely get what you`re saying. If you have a problem, you have to go to the state legislature, we have to go through the
proper criminal justice system. If this guy does the time, it`s something that has to be taken up with the legislature.
However, I agree with what you`re saying. He doused his prior victim in chemicals. She had bad burns all over her. It`s disgusting that this was
allowed to happen again. It`s something that needs to be addressed, but it does need to be addressed in the legislature.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Sam --
SCHACHER: Yes. What, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I get overwhelmed when I hear these outlandish, repetitive criminal behaviors and somebody doesn`t do something of a more longer term
nature.
SCHACHER: Right. And he shouldn`t be on the streets. And here`s the thing, can you imagine if that man wasn`t caught on camera or if that GPS
device wasn`t in that car, what would have happened to that girl?
So, you`re right. And, Anahita, do you know, or Mark, either one of you, do you know what his terms were for probation which after he was released
from jail? How does that work? Was there any other offenses that slid by?
PINSKY: Anahita, you know?
SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know, Dr. Drew. I just took a quick glance at the arrest.
PINSKY: All right. Look, I`m just -- this whole thing is very, very disturbing. What we had to witness what this girl went through, it`s
unconscionable. This shouldn`t be happening.
What, Mark?
EIGLARSH: There`s only one positive. There`s one positive. The only positive is that every teenage girl should be forced to watch this video,
and show how easy it to for these predators to be able to get you in a place that you don`t want to be.
PINSKY: And I`m going to say something else here, you saw on the tape coming into this episode, a career police officer saying he`s never
witnessed a kidnapping, and here we have video of it now.
Thank God there`s videos on every corner. Thank God the law -- the used car sales company that sold this guy a car put a GPS device on it. Let`s
embrace the fact that there`s a lot of monitoring going on.
SEDAGHATFAR: Wow, wow!
PINSKY: Hey, Anahita, if you have nothing to hide, why do you care?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not the right argument to make, Dr. Drew. I`m still -- I`m torn. I don`t know if I like the idea of big brother being able to
track me and follow me around when they don`t have anything like reasonable suspicion.
PINSKY: And, Kayleigh, all I hear her saying is I do things of a reasonable -- of problematic nature when somebody says that.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, you know me, Dr. Drew. I belong in jail.
PINSKY: But, Kayleigh, what do you say? Then I got to go.
MCENANY: Anahita, I have to say, you`re absolutely wrong on this. This girl is alive and she`s well and she`s at home for one reason, it`s because
of surveillance, it`s because there are cameras on the street, it`s because there was a GPS system on this man`s car. Surveillance works, it saves
lives. Worked in the London bombings, worked here, it works.
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s a slippery slope, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: The Boston bombing, yes.
SCHACHER: I knew she would say slippery slope, Dr. Drew. Your favorite term.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Keep an eye on that one, Sam. Whenever you hear someone say slippery slope, you know they went to law school.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Next up, I`m going to speak to the uncle of the kidnapping suspect. Plus, the behavior bureau will assemble.
And later, the NFL`s oldest cheerleader is accused of sex crimes against a teenaged boy. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Disturbing video captures her kidnapping from beginning to end. The suspect parks his car and waits about approaches her
as she walks across this intersection. She tries to walk away when the man grabs her and aggressively drags her down the length of this block. She
struggles to break free and yells for help but he violently pushes her into his vehicle. Investigators have no motive but there`s no indication she
knew her abductor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.
Mark Eiglarsh had a really good point. It`s an instructor for any young female, do not -- fight, do anything you have to do to get away from a guy
that grabs you. Do not get into their car, that`s something`s go back.
SCHACHER: Oh, absolutely, grab, twist, pull, gouge their eyes out, seriously, do what you have to do.
PINSKY: Anything. Anything.
And, of course, we`re talking about the Philadelphia woman abducted, held captive for three days. I mean, can you imagine that?
Police found the suspect`s car using a GPS device. Let`s bring in the behavior bureau.
Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", Jena Kravitz, clinical psychologist, and Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on
Oprah.com.
Now, Danine, somebody says they have some tips. Danine, you`ve got some tips for young women? Is that right?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I do. I`m so glad you brought this up. It`s important that they never take you to the second crime scene.
Your chances of getting out alive go down exponentially if you let them get into the car or to the second crime scene. So, it`s real important that
people realize that not only do you need to get away, but you need to try and leave your DNA or the assailants DNA somewhere.
People always think go for the groin. Go for the nostrils. Stick your fingers up the nostrils. Not only did that draw a blood, but it hurts and
it keeps get DNA under your fingernails.
PINSKY: How about the eyeballs?
MANETTE: The eyeballs, the nostrils, the little small of the neck right there, people think, you know, just kick him in the groin. Forget about
that right now. We need to do things that are a little bit more eyes, nostrils -- the star fish, something that you tell your kids. If you
extend your arms and legs tightly, as hard as you can like starfish motion, it`s very hard to get you into a car. I tried it with my own child, I
couldn`t get her in the trunk.
People don`t want to deal with you when they have to fight that much.
PINSKY: Just curious, Danine, were you showing her how to do this?
MANETTE: I was showing her how to do it, how to get away. It`s hard to get people into a car when their arms and legs are completely extended and
you`re stiff as a board.
PINSKY: Got it. Good advice.
All right. Jena, let me ask you about this guy -- do you think she was stalking woman or she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he acted
impulsively?
JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think this was an impulsive, random act of violence. This guy doesn`t seem like he`s smart enough to have
pulled this off. This guy has no consideration for the rights, safety or comfort of women and obviously derives some pleasure from inflicting pain
on other women. It could be like an issue of control or manipulation. This is just a sick guy.
PINSKY: Yes, Karamo, you get what I was getting at with our lovely defense attorneys. How can you defend the fact that this guy gets back on the
street?
KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes, that`s one of the worst things ever, to know that this man, who is completely despicable, that has a sincere appetite
for destruction, is now back on the street, after seeing what he`s done.
But I want to go back to what Danine said about the tips. I always question and would love to get feedback on that, if you do that so an
assailant and you do not get away, don`t you risk making him more upset?
PINSKY: Or they have a weapon, would the weapon come out then.
BROWN: Or a weapon comes out? So what are some other tips or something that we can do, my tips for young women to be for young women don`t travel
alone, make sure you have somebody that`s with you, make sure you have some type of -- like pepper spray or something.
KRAVITZ: Don`t try to reason with them.
MANETTE: Of course, it`s best to not be in that situation at all, and to put yourself is well-lit areas and walking not alone or at night. But if
yourself in that situation, you`ve got to leave some evidence. You`ve got to -- if you have to release your bowls and bladder, whatever it takes to
leave evidence about what happened to you. Get whatever bite marks you can get in your teeth, DNA from this person`s arms or hands, whatever it takes
to leave some type of a story for the authorities about what happened and who might have done it.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, worst case scenario, if you are walking down the street alone, there`s so many apps nowadays where you can get a live
security, an officer, to walk alongside you and they also locate your phone. So, God forbid, if something were to happen, it will go ahead and
locate your nearest police --
PINSKY: I have learned something, urinating, leaving your DNA, that makes sense. Do whatever. People don`t think about doing whatever it takes.
MANETTE: If you need to roll under a car, roll under a car, grab on the axle.
PINSKY: Be uncivilized.
I want to bring someone on the phone, Lamar Barnes. He`s actually the suspect`s uncle.
Now, Lamar, when police released that video earlier in the week, did you suspect it was Lamar?
LAMAR BARNES, SUSPECT`S UNCLE (via telephone): Did I suspect it was Lamar?
PINSKY: Did you suspect it was your nephew, I beg your pardon.
BARNES: I did.
PINSKY: Did you call the police at that point?
BARNES: No, I wouldn`t call the police.
PINSKY: How come?
BARNES: I just wouldn`t do that. I love my nephew, but what he did is terrible, and the point is, if I was to speak to him, I would tell him to
turn himself in to the police.
PINSKY: And were you surprised that he would do something like this?
BARNES: Well, I know he`s had problems with women for some reason. The first incident, no, it`s shocking to me. It`s a horrific crime that he
committed on that first individual. The second one, in this country, that happens every day pretty much. It`s not right, but that`s the way it is.
But that first incidence was horrific. So yes, I was shocked about that one.
PINSKY: Has the family been concerned about him, not just you but your entire family?
BARNES: Sure. Of course. I mean, look, there`s two things. First, it`s the victims.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNES: I have granddaughters, I have two daughters. These things could happen to them. So, whether he`s a nephew of mine or not, OK, I don`t
condone or support what he`s done.
PINSKY: Jena and then Danine. Jena, go ahead.
KRAVITZ: Yes. My question is, you know, you have daughters and granddaughters. Why wouldn`t you have called the police? I mean, if your
daughters are walking on the street, if that`s somebody out there like this and you knew that he was out there --
PINSKY: Don`t you wish other people would have called and said they knew somebody like this lurking about?
BARNES: Well, there`s a couple things. One, normally family members don`t call the police on their relatives, OK? You tell them, you ask them to
turn themselves in, or you try to take them to some authority.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNES: Try to take them to the authority.
PINSKY: OK, I like that.
BARNES: People of color, you don`t turn your family members in. You don`t condone what they`re doing.
PINSKY: Danine?
MANETTE: No, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to stand by and do absolutely nothing. I`m sorry, if I saw someone that I knew and
there was a person that was in danger and in risk of losing their lives, you don`t have to give their name, you can drop a dime. You just call the
police and give an anonymous report. I don`t understand that, I loved him, so I`m going to let him kill somebody.
PINSKY: Karamo?
BROWN: Lamar, I do understand what you`re saying about the fact --
PINSKY: Let me hear from Lamar.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNES: I was praying basically that he wouldn`t kill someone.
BROWN: Well, Lamar --
PINSKY: It hadn`t gone so well.
BARNES: There`s two things. I didn`t know where he was at any way. I figured that more and likely that was my nephew. So what am I going to do,
call the police and say?
MANETTE: That my nephew kidnapped somebody.
PINSKY: I have a tip.
But, Karamo, go ahead.
BROWN: Yes, Lamar, I understand the hood etiquette making sure you don`t snitch, I understand that. But for a man, as a man who said that you have
grandchildren and you have daughters, I don`t understand how you cannot see that if your daughter was in this position and somebody else in that same
neighborhood was to see your child, whether or not it`s their family, how you don`t see this is important for you to then step up and call. Do you
see that at all?
BARNES: Personally, if my daughter or my granddaughters were in that situation, I wouldn`t expect the suspect to say anything or family members.
That`s reality.
BROWN: Lamar, reality changes, just like Danine said, when someone good person steps up. You can be the change that we need to say.
PINSKY: Well, I appreciate Lamar for stepping up and having the courage to tell us what he was feeling. And I think our point of view is pretty
clear.
And, Lamar, thank you for joining us.
Next up, we`re changing gears. This is a teenage boy who claims sex with a teenage boy in the life -- this woman you see there, this 47-year-old NFL
cheerleader may or alleges that she may have had sex with teenage boy. >
And later, a mom who shaved her daughter`s head, posted the photos on Facebook. We`ll get into that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Molly Shattuck turned herself in to be arraigned on a nine-count indictment, accusing her of having sex with a 15-year-old boy.
Shattuck accused of contacting him on Instagram and performing a sexual act on him at a beach house in Delaware.
The criminal charges concern what happened labor weekend, Shattuck, her kids and friends were stayed in a rented beach house. The boy stayed over
one night. Shattuck allegedly performed oral sex on the boy first outside the home while walking the dog and again in her bedroom. The boy described
the undergarment Shattuck was wearing the document says, as he entered her bedroom. She allegedly performed oral sex and said if she wanted to have
sex she would. The boy opted out.
Unwanted attention came to her 2.5 million home and investigators executed a search warrant here as part of a criminal investigation, looking for,
among other things, and pink underwear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Kayleigh, Mark and Anahita.
Some of that video was from Molly Shattuck`s exercise video. And until now, the mother of three was most famous for having become the oldest woman
to ever be hired as a cheerleader in the NFL. Tonight, she faces up to 52 years in prison, accused of raping a teenage boy.
Sam, what else can you tell us about the charges?
SCHACHER: OK. So, we have obtained the search warrant affidavit, Dr. Drew. It lays out two counts of third degree rape, four counts of unlawful
sexual contact, and three counts of giving alcohol to a minor. Now, the alcohol charges are from that labor day weekend. Police say she allegedly
took the boy to a local store, bought him two 12 packs of beer rather.
PINSKY: Sam, here we are again, the video must be available, there`s video available everywhere.
SCHACHER: Exactly, exactly. They say the younger kids were left home alone during that errand, and this just in, Dr. Drew. There are questions
whether she`s getting preferential treatment.
I wanted to take a look at her booking photo, OK? I mean, what the hell, it looks like she`s -- first of all, she`s not in the typical jump suit
that you would be given, a jailhouse. It was taken at the courthouse and she was allowed to turn herself in rather than being arrested and
handcuffed. So, I totally get why people are up in arms about this.
PINSKY: Since we`re attacking the attorneys tonight. Both of them have knowing smiles. Anahita, you especially got -- laughed when I brought
about the video even.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right, yes. I mean, I take issue with that, but that was a public place, so she had no expectation of privacy. But if I`m defending
this woman, Dr. Drew, I`m going to work out a plea deal. Her defense is not really a defense. The fact that he consensually had sex with this
woman is not recognized under the law because he is a minor. He can`t consent to sex.
So I`m arguing she`s sick, she needs help, she needs counseling, she was probably molested as a child herself. She was probably abused. So, yes,
she should pay the price for what she did, but 52 years? I think she needs more therapy and counseling more than being behind bars locked up.
PINSKY: And, Kayleigh, it depends on the circumstances are. If somebody who`s running around like that, it must have already had encounters with
mental health professionals and maybe rejected treatment or God knows what.
MCENANY: Let`s be clear, 52 years is the maximum she faces. She`s going to serve much smaller time than that. This woman is sick, she does need
help, and this victim, if these allegations are true, is the same age as her son and goes to the same school as her son? This is disgusting, and
she deserves to be punished, not 52 years. She won`t serve 52 years. I would be surprised if she serves five.
PINSKY: Mark, I`ll just ask you if you agree with Anahita, but again, my point always on these issues, we get accused of excusing criminal behavior
because of mental illness. What I`ve always said was, once you engage in the criminal behavior, it`s too late at that point. It`s on you then.
EIGLARSH: The bigger issue here is excusing the conduct by many, because she looks good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she`s a girl. A woman.
EIGLARSH: And the question is whether there`s any harm. She`s a woman, is there any harm to this? The old me would have been like, please abuse me.
The new me knows that studies show that teenagers who have these relations with these older women are at greater risk for both drug and alcohol use,
depression, anxiety, compulsive eating, all these horrible things, suicide attempts, self-inflicting. You don`t want that. So there`s a lot of harm
involved. No, she shouldn`t get 52 years. Nobody gets the maximum sentence. As to Samantha`s point, I surrendered a client this week, and it
happens very frequently. She doesn`t get special treatment. You work out something with the detectives. They don`t necessarily have to be
handcuffed. It`s something you can work out in different cases.
PINSKY: I think it`s the special treatment because she`s an attractive female. And I noticed our three guests around you, Mark--
SCHACHER: And very wealthy. Very well to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: It doesn`t hurt, Dr. Drew, but I also get infuriated when I see the double standard in these cases. OK? Yes, I`ve read a lot of these
comments on social media. Again, people are going, yeah, lucky guy, I wish that was me. Wow, what is it, boy in love. All these wonderful comments.
If this was a man that molested a young 15, 16-year-old girl --
PINSKY: String him up.
SEDAGHATFAR: They would want his head chopped off. It doesn`t make him any less of a victim.
PINSKY: No. Her website is down quote, for maintenance, but we did locate several pages at an Internet archive database. Here we have now an auto
re-creation of what she wrote about in what she called her bucket list. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re wired to get a natural rush when we accomplish a goal. When I was a senior in high school, I wrote down ten things I
wanted to do in life, go to college, visit Washington, D.C., become a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, run a marathon, climb Mount Kilimanjaro, become
a Rockette, get married and have kids, visit Europe, save $50,000, and help an orphanage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Was predator on that list?
PINSKY: What`s bizarre to me, I`ll post this to you, it sounds on one hand a little manicky, because I`m going to climb Kilimanjaro and oh by the way,
have kids. And it sounded so (inaudible), so child-like, it`s really extraordinary.
MCENANY: It does. And apparently on her expanded list of what she wanted to do as an adult, one of the things was going to law school. I really
wish she would have done that, because maybe she wouldn`t have found herself in this predicament.
PINSKY: Or it could help her now.
MCENANY: It is a bit narcissistic. But I do want to say that this kind of action is facilitated by a culture that consistently advocates casual sex.
One major prime-time series shows a socialite engaging in sex with a lawn boy who is underage, he`s in high school. So I see society embracing this,
and I see things like this happen and I have to wonder if there`s a connection.
PINSKY: I couldn`t agree with you more. The reality of how this bears out, Mark, the reality of what it does to young people, you have mentioned
already, whether it`s male or female.
EIGLARSH: Well, I read what happens, and that`s what the studies show, but I`m still torn, and I need you to help me, maybe carry this over into the
behavior bureau, but we say 15 is unlawful. It`s a crime. She`s a predator. 16, okay, you`re still there. But the random 18, even if the
15-year-old is mature, all of a sudden that`s okay, it`s not a crime.
PINSKY: It`s not OK. Listen, you guys -- this is a great night for me, because I get to attack you and Anahita over and over again. But that`s
always been a problem for me, the law is so arbitrary on this issue, and it varies state by state, sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes I disagree
profoundly with where they set the bar. But the reality is you`re bringing up, some 18-year-olds can be profoundly affected. It may not be a crime,
may not reach that standard yet, but the reality is, that 18-year-old gardener or pool boy or whatever it was that Kayleigh was referring to, can
have profound lasting effects. Mike Catherwood who is on this show, he will come on and tell you sometime, he says it on the radio show all the
time, he had something happen to him when he was a young adolescent, and to this day he`s managing those issues. It profoundly affects the brain. For
somebody`s brain that is developing, is quite plastic, and things like these sorts of intense experiences can change the trajectory of that
development.
We`ll get more into it with the behavior bureau. And later, shaving her daughter`s head, sharing the photos with everyone, this mom went too far.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Molly Shattuck turned herself in to be arraigned on a nine-count indictment, accusing her of having sex with a 15-year-old boy.
Shattuck`s often been the center of attention as the younger woman who married Mayo Shattuck in 1997. The two are now separated and going through
a divorce. A judge ordered her to have no contact with any children except her own. She`s a philanthropist and author of "Vibrant Living," her recipe
for good health.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The road map you make for your life helps you stay away from the dark side, from the fast food drive-through and from the
late-night binges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Danine, Jena and Karamo. We`re talking about the 47-year-old mom of three, sadly, former NFL
cheerleader, Molly Shattuck, charged with raping a 15-year-old boy.
Sam, her Twitter account is still active. You got a couple of tweets from I guess Labor day weekend, right?
SCHACHER: From Labor Day weekend. Take a look at both of them. She loves emojis. If you look at the tweets, we see smiley, sunny, biker, surfer,
swimmer, fish food, music, balls, the list goes on and on and on.
PINSKY: Is there another one? Oh, there it is.
SCHACHER: They`re pretty much saying the same thing, except she`s just using more and more emojis.
PINSKY: They are saying the same thing, except, Jena, it says several things to me. Those are the infantile tweets of a 47-year-old woman. No.
1. And no. 2, again, they look manic as hell.
KRAVITZ: Right. Dr. Drew, we don`t have any evidence of childhood sexual abuse here or substance abuse or any major mental illness, in fact, for
this person. But I think you hit the nail on the head here. And I`m not going to excuse her behavior, but this is a person who obviously has
emotional and relationship turmoil in her life, has some emptiness and is trying to fill those voids to feel attractive, to have an exciting life, by
doing these things. I mean, from joining a cheerleading team at the age of 38, (inaudible), to using emoticons, she`s clearly socially developmentally
immature. Some people could call it a midlife crisis, and some people would just call her a cougar.
PINSKY: How about my notion that she`s a little manicky? I`m going to go to Kilimanjaro and I`ve got 40 emoticons to express everything I`m going to
do. We don`t know that. Maybe she was in an altered state when she came on to this 15-year-old.
KRAVITZ: I think that`s just a reflection of her immaturity, to be honest.
PINSKY: Allegedly. Karamo, you are a social worker. What are your thoughts and the alleged victim, what are you thoughts on both of them?
BROWN: Well, when I first read the story, this woman is a clear example of a creeper, which is a social media predator. And she preyed on this young
man and attacked him, and it had dire results. So I want to encourage parents, like I always do, allegedly, what I always want to do is I want to
encourage parents to make sure that you make sure that you are involved in your child`s behavior. Because your child`s behavior on social media could
be the difference between them being safe and them being harmed.
And secondly, when we go to this young man, a young teenage boy, there`s so much guilt that he`s probably going through right now. A feeling like I
was powerless, or the fact that he was aroused, how did he allow himself to be aroused? Those things are going to play into his life for the rest of
his life emotionally when he`s having intimate relationships. And it`s really sad and disgusting.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: He feels overwhelmed and out of control.
(CROSSTALK)
KRAVITZ: I get it. But socially, Karamo, isn`t it also possible that he`s also like that guy who pulled this friend`s mom --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Or this young man who is 16 years old -- this young man is a victim of this woman, who preyed on him.
PINSKY: I am going to say, Sam, maybe he was vulnerable in some way, that`s why he became a good victim for her.
BROWN: Of course, yes.
SCHACHER: He rejected the intercourse too, Dr. Drew. Who knows how long she started grooming him. This was a friend of her son, allegedly.
PINSKY: No, he became one. I think they met through Instagram.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: No, she approached him on Instagram, Dr. Drew. He was in the same school as her son.
BROWN: A creeper.
PINSKY: OK, so Danine, drop your bomb here. You`re sitting quietly.
MANETTE: I was waiting for the psychobabble to come out, I was waiting for you guys to put some kind of psychological labels on her. I`m glad you
decided not to.
PINSKY: We did our thing.
(CROSSTALK)
MANETTE: This woman is a child molester, and not only that, she`s a hobble parent. What person is going to put their children in a situation where
they are doing their classmate, and now the kids have to go to school and deal with that entire interaction with their peers? What a horrible parent
she is. She`s the absolute worst.
SCHACHER: And she allegedly bought the beer for all of the older kids, Dr. Drew. Not just this boy that she wanted to perform allegedly oral sex on,
and have intercourse with, she brought the beer back for all of them.
(CROSSTALK)
KRAVITZ: Consistent with all of this immature behavior, like me, like me, like me. I`m so cool.
PINSKY: Danine, you`ll like this. These are the parents -- hang on, these are the parents that I encourage other parents to call the sheriffs on.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Agreed with you, Dr. Drew. Amen.
PINSKY: Next, we`re going to talk about another mom. This one bothers me as much as the one we`ve just been talking about. This one shaved her
daughter`s head as a punishment. What do you think? Take our poll on Facebook. We have a Facebook page. We`ll have the results. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New haircut, all because she wouldn`t brush it. And I told her it was going to happen the next time she ended up with a rat`s
nest. Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Danine, Mark and Anahita. That was a re-enactment of the mother`s post on Facebook. This is the story you are tweeting most
tonight, at least so far. The 10-year-old daughter refused to brush her own hair, so the mom just shaved the child`s head. The mom then posted a
photo of the bald daughter on Facebook, but it caught fire on Reddit. Sam, how did it get on Reddit?
SCHACHER: We spoke to the person who started that thread on Reddit, Dr. Drew, and she said that when she first saw that photo of that girl on
Facebook, it was really disturbing to her, so she decided to then post it on Reddit. She supposedly, this person that started the thread on Reddit,
had endured abuse herself, and so she was worried that this little girl was in trouble, and she was hoping that through social media, she could bring
some attention to the story, which is exactly what it did.
PINSKY: And we actually reached out to the child`s aunt, and she told us, here is the quote, "the mother does show remorse and feels horrible about
her actions. Obviously it can`t be changed now, so we are doing our best to let the little girl know she`s still beautiful either way and that she`s
very loved." But Danine, who cares? Too little too late. You can`t -- it`s like people who sexually abuse their kids or beat their kids and say,
oh, it`s because I love you.
MANETTE: It`s like, can we bring out the scarlet letter again and attach it to people? These public displays of shame, I am so sick of them. Now,
if she told her daughter every day a week, if you don`t comb your hair on Friday, I`m going to shave your head, and then on Friday, she shaved her
daughter`s head -- to me, that`s ridiculous punishment, but I guess she`s following through with what she said. But putting something like this on
the Internet, to publicly shame her, so all the other parents can say oh, you`re such a great parent, look what you did, mom, you`re so -- what is
wrong with these people? Absolutely ridiculous. I don`t understand this communal parenting.
PINSKY: Mark, my question is, does she have a legal liability having done this?
EIGLARSH: Well, there`s nothing criminal about it. There wouldn`t be a prosecutor to bring charges, no matter how abhorrent her choices are, but I
would keep an eye on her.
PINSKY: Yes, no kidding.
EIGLARSH: One minute the hair isn`t brushed, so the hair is shaved. What happens when she doesn`t brush her teeth, out go the teeth?
PINSKY: There you go, seems practical, Mark. And Anahita, do you think that shame or embarrassment ever works?
SEDAGHATFAR: Not with a 10-year-old little girl, Dr. Drew. I think the mom went way too far here. I`m not saying that parents should not punish
their children, they should not teach them consequences for their actions, but come on. What was the purpose of posting this picture on Facebook?
PINSKY: That`s my question.
SEDAGHATFAR: I will tell you why, because the mother is not doing this to be a good parent. She`s doing this because she wants her 15 minutes of
fame. She`s doing this so this picture will go viral, she`ll get likes, she`ll get comments, she`ll get shares. This is not about parenting.
PINSKY: Sam, you agree?
SCHACHER: I actually think that this mother probably was a bully back when she was in high school. And this is just her way of thinking this is the
accurate way to punish somebody. This is cyber bullying, Dr. Drew.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Danine, you`ll back me up on this. It`s intra-generational transmission. Somebody did horrible stuff to her, so she doesn`t perceive
what she`s doing to her child, and that`s the way it goes, and now we have social media to amplify the whole thing.
(CROSSTALK)
MANETTE: I don`t believe she has the slightest clue what it takes to be a good parent. I don`t think so. I think she`s just putting this out there
so other people can maybe give her support and let her know, and now she realizes maybe I shouldn`t have done that. People are reacting negatively.
PINSKY: But I love her so much, I love her, you understand, because I love her.
SEDAGHATFAR: If this was about punishing her, and shaming her, she could just shave the daughter`s head. She`s going to get shamed at school.
These kids are going to make fun of her.
PINSKY: It`s going to be terrible for her.
SEDAGHATFAR: Why did she post it on Facebook?
PINSKY: Next up, I want to get to what you`re saying about this mom who shaved off the daughter`s hair, plus the results of our poll, plus I have
got a tweet I really like that refers back to the sexually abused boy. We got a lot of stuff coming up after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Danine, Mark and Anahita. Tonight, we`re asking you, did a mom go too far when she shaved her daughter`s head and
posted her pictures on Facebook? You can vote still on our Facebook page. Right now, 95 percent of you say yes, she went too far.
We`re going to look at some tweets, Sam, in just a second, but I want to share one I got about the cheerleader, who sexually abused the 15-year-old
boy. This is from a Gary Roach, he said, "I`m listening to how you are describing how he feels." We were talking about how the young 15-year-old,
Mark, remember, we were talking about how that can affect a young man`s mind and brain. And I said, he`ll feel out of control. Jena talked about
that. But this guy goes on to say, "he feels, and you two fellows are clueless. Damage yes, but he won`t be aware of it for years." And that is
absolutely true. A lot of these kids feel in the moment privileged. Lucky to have gone through this. Years later, they have all sorts of intimacy
disorders. Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, I learned that from your show, Dr. Drew. Not only from Mike Catherwood, but Jason Ellis (ph) brought that up, too.
PINSKY: Mark, you want to comment on that?
SCHACHER: The Facebook comments?
PINSKY: No, no, Mark.
EIGLARSH: The only thing -- I actually wanted to talk about the woman who shaved her daughter`s head. The only good thing about that coming out in
the open is that we now know what this woman is doing to her daughter and the type of level of awareness and the defects in character she has so we
can keep an eye on her and her daughter.
I think about all those children whose parents don`t turn to social media, so we don`t know the abuse and the horrific treatment they`re receiving
from parents who are supposed to love them.
PINSKY: Sam, speaking of social media, what do you got on Twitter?
SCHACHER: I have actually a couple of Facebook comments, Dr. Drew, from Tasha. You have just opened the door for your daughter to be publicly
ridiculed and bullied. And from Jeanelle, when a child does something wrong, I think a little embarrassment goes a long way.
PINSKY: Danine, there`s the people who believe the scarlet letter should be brought out. Should be marched out.
MANETTE: A little embarrassment is one thing, maybe around the neighborhood, but something that goes to out to the nation is a little bit
too much. That`s ridiculous. It`s a shame when the measure of success is how your stuff goes viral. It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: Anahita, when you look at child -- shaping children`s behavior, I don`t usually see public displays of shame and embarrassment high on the
list.
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree with you. And again, I think if it was just about punishing her child, she wouldn`t have posted the picture on Facebook.
That child is 10 years old. Kids are going to bully her, are going to tease her. That`s ridicule enough. So I think the mother really did this
because she wanted the publicity and the attention.
PINSKY: I agree. But to back up what Mark was saying, hey, have at it, everybody. Be famous. All you parents that are misbehaving, let us see
it. Danine, you agree?
MANETTE: Oh yes, I use that in my work all the time. I get a lot of nuggets from social media.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s what I tell parents, to follow your kids. You can see what`s going on, downstream (ph) with their friends too.
All right, everybody, "FORENSIC FILES" is up next.
END
