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Kenneth Bae And Matthew Todd Miller Released From North Korean Prison; Coalition Air Strikes Target Suspected Group Of ISIS Leaders Inside IraqTwo American Detainees Released from North Korea; Nominee Loretta Lynch Would Make History as Attorney General

Aired November 08, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you for being with me. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from New York this evening. We are following several developing stories this hour.

First, an update on coalition air strikes that targeted a suspected group of ISIS leaders inside Iraq. The leader of ISIS is a man named Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, but there is no word if he was present in that group hit by those air strikes. We'll have much more on that in just a moment.

Also, right now, two American citizens are on their way home. One of them held in North Korea for two years, Kenneth Bae. Also Matthew Todd Miller held there for seven months. They are free today. Until a few hours ago, they were the only Americans still being detained by the North Korean government.

Miller was charged with committing hostile acts against North Korea earlier this year. Bae faced those same charges two years ago. And he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

One man has negotiated with North Korea since the 1990s to help free Americans. I'm talking about former New Mexico governor, Bill Richardson, who also served as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. He went to North Korea just last year to try to get Kenneth Bae released. Five years ago, considered a potential envoy for the release of two Americans. That role ultimately went to former president Bill Clinton. Governor Richardson joins me on the phone. Thank you so much for

being here, sir.

And I want you to first please, if you could, take us into the mind of negotiators since you worked with North Korean negotiators why do you think they decided to release these two Americans right now?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR (via phone): I believe there was two reasons. One, they were catching the North Koreans a lot of heat at the United Nations on human rights violations. They were going to be taken to the international criminal court.

Secondly, I believe they want to start a dialogue with the United States. The fact that there are very few conditions they have asked for with the release of Kenneth Bae and this other young man, Mr. Miller, basically asking for a presidential envoy. And releasing them without any apparent conditions. Any conditions for giving them food or aid.

When I negotiated with the North Koreans, they're always asking for something very tangible in return. But this time, I think they're sending a message that they're ready to talk to the United States, and hopefully that will lessen tensions in northeast Asia, with South Korea, with Japan, with some of our efforts to keep some kind of stability in that region.

HARLOW: But do we have to be cautious not to look at this as too big of a door opening for diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea? Should it be qualified?

RICHARDSON: Well, yes. Because North Korea, they're very unpredictable. They go hot and cold. But what is significant about this is that this is a decision that only could have been made by Kim Jong-Un, the new leader. We know very little about.

A month ago, he released another American without conditions. And now he seems to be doing it again. Perhaps a condition that he asked for was send the presidential envoy, asked -- give us the status of some kind of an early dialogue, even though apparently he didn't meet with Kim Jong-Un.

But at the same time, it is a positive signal, a release based on humanitarian grounds, because we have demanded that in order for us to talk to North Korea, they have to terminate their nuclear arsenal, and engage in arms control talks and North Korea has in the past basically refused. So maybe it's a little opening. But you can't expect much immediately from North Korea intangibly. They're all over the place. They're unpredictable. They change their minds. They're hostile. And they're isolated.

HARLOW: We know now that President Obama sent a short letter, hand- written letter with James clapper to be delivered to Kim Jong-Un. I wonder -- we're also told there was no quid pro quo, no deal made here. That the U.S. didn't hand anything over or agree to anything for these men's release. But do you think North Korea is waiting for a particular gesture now from the U.S.? RICHARDSON: Well, I believe they want some kind of talks. They want

a little bit of a warming of relations. The North Koreans love little messages, send former president Clinton, send former Jimmy Carter. A letter like this, while it seems insignificant to others, is important to them, probably on presidential stationery, hand-written, simply saying that James Clapper is my envoy, and we urge the release. It's symbolism that they like. They're big on protocol.

So it was a skillful move on the part of the administration. And the good news also is that maybe we have opened another channel through our intelligence community, besides a state department, besides the U.N. mission in New York, that involves other officials in the U.S. government. And that's good. Because this is a hostile country with nuclear weapons, with missiles. And we need to reduce the tensions out there, and maybe it will be the start to some negotiations. The North Koreans are going to want food, humanitarian assistance, sanctions lifted, energy assistance.

But again, you know, we want some kind of reduction of tension in that part of the world, particularly because we've got American troops there, close to 50,000. We've got allies like South Korea and Japan that they are friends (ph) that don't want the sanction.

So it a good, good move and now we have Andrew Tahmooressi, the marine from Mexico that I was involved in getting released. And now the administration deserves credit for this effort, Kenneth Bae and Mr. Miller will go back with their families. Particularly Kenneth Bae, who has been in prison for two years and who was suffering. And now he's going home. So, it's a good news story. And we need good news these days.

HARLOW: We certainly do. It is wonderful news and we're all happy to report they're on a plane headed here and expected to land sometime tonight.

Governor bill Richardson, thank you for your time.

U.S. director of national intelligence, James Clapper, went to Pyongyang as an envoy to Obama. He delivered this hand-written letter from the president to the north Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, describing Clapper as his personal envoy. Clapper did not meet with Kim, we were told, though.

Joining me on the phone is CNN senior political analyst David Gergen, a veteran adviser to four U.S. presidents.

Thank you for being with us, David. Appreciate it.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (via phone): Hello, Poppy. Good to talk to you.

HARLOW: A senior state department official tells us that the letter from President Obama was short and to the point. What do you make of the letter?

GERGEN: I think the letter is just what bill Richardson said, it wrapped a lot more authority around James Clapper going. The North Koreans historically have always responded better or they liked to work with a high-ranking American official. So, you know, Bill Richardson had -- you know, as ambassador to the United Nations, carried a lot of weight when he went. Similarly, of course, President Clinton went over and got people released. So I think it has a lot to do with status. And the North Koreans feeling like they're treated as a more equal partner and not just a, you know, a third-rate country with a nuclear weapon.

HARLOW: How much of a win is this for the Obama administration after the midterms?

GERGEN: I think it's -- its certainty positive. I don't think it's a big win for the Obama administration, but it's a positive note. It will draw more attention to his trip to China, which is just, you know, it is coming up this coming week.

HARLOW: Right.

GERGEN: I think nobody knows when it comes to the North Koreans and to know exactly what they're up to. They're so mysterious and they are so isolated, as Bill just said. Some Republicans will speculate, probably quietly, but speculate that, you know, that maybe this did have something to do with midterms. Maybe they saw, Washington has got the Republicans on the chart, and the North Koreans have historically seen the Republicans as more threatening. But just as the same way that -- when Reagan got elected, the Iranians on the day of the inauguration, remember how they released hostages? So within the Republican playbook, that things like this happen.

The Democrats will naturally vigorously disagree with that. Nobody else, you know, they're going to say this was carried out very wisely by the Obama administration. We didn't know he was going over there, it was all hush-hush and they got it done and good for him. He gets points for that.

So the Democrats will dismiss that. But there will be speculation for as long as there is a North Korea, the way it is today, there will be speculation about what the heck they're up to.

HARLOW: Yes, well said.

President Obama leaves tomorrow for this trip to Asia. And there is a report that Chinese media and some are describing the president as a leader who has been downgraded by the midterm election results.

Is this a case where you think that political defeat at home could have a material, significant effect when the president travels abroad?

GERGEN: There has been concern, and more than China about that issue. Historically, American presidents have paid a price in this midterm election the second term. But they have not been damaged by that. They have been able to go forward and do a lot of important things.

So, you know, I think again, it's more in the realm of speculation. I don't think he's been weakened overseas. And, indeed, the Congress in the next few weeks may well pass exactly what he wants on Ebola during -- when he comes home. And more importantly, the purposes of power, they may well pass authorization and put money into the campaign against is. So the president is still the commander in chief. And you're the commander in chief, the largest most powerful military in the world. So you naturally keep power as a result of that, whatever your domestic fortunes are.

HARLOW: David Gergen, appreciate the analysis so much this evening. Thanks for joining us.

GERGEN: Thank you much. Take care.

HARLOW: This is the day Kenneth Bae's family and my next guest have been waiting for, for a very long time. This is a very good day. David Sugarman is founder of bring Bae back, that campaign and a close friend of the family. Thanks for joining me.

DAVID SUGARMAN, FOUNDER, BRING BAE BACK: My pleasure.

HARLOW: I know you've been talking to Kenneth Bae's family today. How are they doing?

SUGARMAN: They are -- tears of joy. I mean, they're very, very happy. I don't think anybody expected this to happen so quickly. Or the way that it did happen. So I spoke with Terri as recently as a half hour ago, yes, his sister. And she's -- I mean, she's a trouper, you know. We've gotten very close since I met her in February and it's really a blessing that he's coming home. They have really missed him.

HARLOW: Have you heard any details that they're willing to share about when he will actually come home, when the plane might land? When is he going to go directly and get visit his family, because we know he's in poor health. Does he have to go immediately for health care to the hospital? How is he doing?

SUGARMAN: I mean, I saw -- I think you probably saw as well they put out that press release and statement which I saw earlier that they wanted some time and space. So I'm not too certain. I trust the plane lands tonight between 9:00 and 10:30.

HARLOW: Have they told you about his health, how he's doing, the family?

SUGARMAN: Yes. Not well.

HARLOW: Not well.

SUGARMAN: Yes, not well. And I think -- look, I think -- and this is just me speculating, right? But I think part of this had to do with the fact that Kenneth hasn't been doing well. I mean, CNN got the exclusive, you know, with the three prisoners. HARLOW: Interviews.

SUGARMAN: Yes. And even your reporter said he was so shocked at how -- HARLOW: How he looked, how much weight he had lost.

SUGARMAN: Yes. Hair was falling out, so on and so forth.

HARLOW: How has the Bae family held up the last two years? We know especially Kenneth's sister, Terri, has been very vocal, out fighting for this. We know this is a man with three little kids at home. How have they managed through this?

SUGARMAN: It's been really hard. I mean, it's been -- I can't personally imagine going through it. But I've spent time with Kenneth's mom here in New York. And it's been hard. It's been rough. And I check in with them. You know, I text with Terri, you know, two or three times a week. And I call once a week, just how is mom doing. I call her mom, right? How is mom doing. How are you doing? And it's been really hard, you know. Your son or your brother to be locked up in a labor camp.

HARLOW: Yes, and with deteriorating health.

SUGARMAN: With deteriorating health, being in and out of a hospital. You know, it's not easy on them.

HARLOW: Absolutely not. We are so happy, and I know you are so happy. Thank goodness for these men, for their families. Thank you for joining us this evening.

SUGARMAN: Yes, my pleasure. Thank you.

HARLOW: U.S. air strikes targeted a suspended group of ISIS leaders in Iraq. Big question was the brutal leader of ISIS, al-Baghdadi, among them? We'll discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Let's get more now on word of a coalition air strike targeting a group of suspected is leaders inside Iraq. It is important to remember, the leader of ISIS is this man, his name Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. And a spokesman for U.S. central command says that while the air strikes destroyed a convoy believed to be caring ISIS leaders, they cannot confirm if al-Baghdadi was in that convoy.

Let's talk about it now with former CIA operative Bob Baer. He is also CNN national security analyst.

Bob, you have said that killing the ISIS leader is a bad plan. And I want to read part of this op-ed that you wrote last week. It says, the fact is, that assassinations are at best tricky. The cure can be worse than the disease. To be sure, we're capable of militarily destroying ISIS and eliminating its leadership, but Sunni grievances will remain and there will always be another Sunni strong man to take up the cudgel.

Why? Why are you saying that it is a bad idea to be targeting him or not the top priority? ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, it would be

a setback for ISIS to kill him. He's the spiritual leader of that group. But we don't know who would replace him at that point.

But the point is, we are facing a Sunni insurrection in Iraq and Syria. There has been terrible violence in that part of the world. The Sunnis feel threatened. They are going to throw up whoever they can to fight the Shia in Baghdad and Damascus. So I don't think, you know, decapitating the organization is going to change things much. And additionally, we could get somebody worse. We just don't know how it works.

HARLOW: That's a fair point. We were talking earlier this week when we got news that U.S. and coalition forces had been able to target and successfully kill a bomb-maker for the Khorasan terrorist group. And we talked about the intelligence issue here. How much do you think that is a sign that the intelligence has gotten better?

BAER: Well, it's certainly gotten better in Syria and Iraq, I think, over the years, simply because we have been fighting there for so long. But the problem is, it's fragmentary. And you know, you have to get lucky and that's what you're doing. But you certainly don't understand how any of these groups work or which bomb-maker is doing what. It's in the CIA, we called it is a denied area.

If you don't actually have officers, you know, next to your enemy, it's very difficult to collect intelligence. Whether it's for assassination or for any bombardment at all. I mean, if we're going to make this air campaign work in Syria and Iraq, we need, you know, close air support. And we need forward observers on the ground, which we're not ready to put in yet. But that may change very soon. And military does very well when they have boots on the ground. But, of course, that's very risky.

HARLOW: All right, Bob Baer, thank you. Stand by. We're going to get back to you in a moment with many more questions for you on this. Thank you, Bob.

And the last American detainees from North Korea are on their way home. This is great news.

Coming up, more about the man who flew to Pyongyang with a letter from the president in his pocket. He helped bring those two men home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Two American citizens are on their way home. One of them held in North Korea for two years. Matthew Todd Miller and Kenneth Bae were set free today, very surprisingly. And a senator from Kenneth Bae's home state of Washington has been working closely with his family since his arrest two years ago.

Senator Patty Murray talked about the negotiations on CNN earlier today. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: An amazing day for all of us that have been working on this, because of the persistence and the insistence and strength of Kenneth Bae's family, who have worked so hard for the last two years to make sure no one forgets Kenneth.

This is a case that we have -- he is from our state. It's a case we've been working on for a very long time. I have met with the family personally. His sister has -- Terri, has just been the most passionate, articulate person I have ever met. And have met with her and talked with her numerous times throughout this. And I think why we're here today is because Terri just would not give up and would not let any of us give up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, in a story full of surprises, another big surprise is who went to North Korea to pick up and bring home the Americans Kenneth Bae and Matthew Todd Miller. That person was none other than America's top spy, director of national intelligence, James Clapper.

He didn't go to Pyongyang empty-handed. He carried a hand-written letter from President Obama directly to North Korean leader Kim Jong- Un. These simple but unusual facts raise a lot of questions, and are sure to provoke intense speculation.

Let's bring in CNN intelligence and security analyst, Bob Baer.

Bob, were you surprised clapper was the one chosen to do this?

BAER: Well, in one sense, I was. Because this isn't the role of American intelligence, is to serve as diplomatic emissary to a country like North Korea. This is either done through protecting powers like Sweden or to the United Nations or diplomats. So it was a surprise to me, yes.

But on the other hand, the North Koreans tend to attribute more power to intelligence chiefs than they do diplomats. So if they have an important message to deliver, they would want the intelligence chief there rather than a diplomat. So in that sense, it does make sense.