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Hillary Vs. Jeb?; ISIS Leader Killed?; Ferguson Protests

Aired November 10, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Brooke Baldwin.

And we're beginning with breaking news. A huge milestone today in the fight against ISIS. U.S. troops have just touched down in Anbar province, one of the deadliest places for U.S. troops during the Iraq war. This comes as the U.S. has decided to double the number of troops in Iraq, but President Obama says it's not a sign they're losing the fight against ISIS.

Instead, he says this is a shift to a new phase. It's an offensive strategy, instead of a defensive one. Meantime, there are conflicting reports on the fate of the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. U.S. warplanes attacked a convoy near Mosul in Iraq this weekend in an attempt to kill ISIS leaders. It's unknown though if that top guy was among them.

Iraq's Interior Ministry saying al-Baghdadi was wounded in their own strikes, but U.S. Central Command says it can't confirm al-Baghdadi was hit. Iraqi's prime minister silent as well.

Joining me now to talk about this, Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst, as well as Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, retired Delta Force Army officer and global affairs analyst.

Paul, first let's talk about these reports about al-Baghdadi being dead. This is strange because we're hearing this from Iraq's Interior Ministry. This is not Iraq's version of the Pentagon. What do we make of this?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think there is significant skepticism about these claims coming from the Iraqi government.

Different parts of the Iraqi government are making different claims about different strikes on different days in completely different parts of the country. And, of course, this very same Iraqi government back in September, the Iraqi prime minister was in New York and he made this claim about this ISIS plot against the subways in New York, which was discredited afterwards.

So I think there is a lot of skepticism about this at this point. Not confirmed by the Americans yet.

KEILAR: Not confirmed by the Americans yet, not even confirmed by Iraq's prime minister, who obviously said what you just mentioned. Colonel, I think it sort of begs a bigger question, too. If we can't trust necessarily what the Iraqi government is saying, how does the U.S. have a partner here when it comes to combating ISIS in Iraq?

JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Brianna, you have to realize we have a lot of experience and a lot of shared realities between us and the Iraqis because we spent a long time there.

Unfortunately, we broke for three years, but now we're back. But we have a lot of experience. Everyone who fought in Iraq previously, we all know that we have to take these what we call RUMINT, rumor intelligence, from the Iraqis at face value.

We listen to it and then we start using our intelligence to try to find that second and third effect to confirm or deny what -- this has happened.

KEILAR: RUMINT, I like that. That's a good shorthand there.

Paul, if al-Baghdadi is dead, who would lead ISIS? Who would be in line?

CRUICKSHANK: It's not really clear who would be in line. They don't have an anointed successor for al-Baghdadi.

It would clearly be a big breakthrough against the group. This is a guy who has declared himself the leaders of all Muslims worldwide, the head of the caliphate. One of the people that could take over the group is Abu Muhammad al-Adnani. He is a Syrian. He's 37 years old. He's emerged as a powerful voice for the group, their spokesman, and he's the guy that just in September put out this fatwa for lone wolf attacks back in the West.

There are other people as well on the military council, people who are leading operations in Iraq and Syria that could also take over, Brianna.

KEILAR: And, Colonel, talk to us about what is going on in Anbar province. We're now learning just a short while ago that U.S. troops have arrived there. We're not talking about a whole -- like a big number of U.S. troops.

But how significant is this and is this really going to help?

REESE: Yes, Brianna, yes, it's going to help.

But these guys are -- this is an advanced force team. They're going out to do a site survey, what we call in the military. It's most likely 50 Green Berets from one of the special forces battalions and what Washington needs and the Pentagon and CENTCOM need right now is what I will call a shared reality.

We know what we're getting from the Iraqis, just like this RUMINT we got on al-Baghdadi. Now we're going to put our forces on the ground at Al Asad. Again, these Green Berets have a lot of experience in their past. I would not doubt that some of the leadership out there are guys that were out there from 2003 to 2011.

They have a lot of known Iraqis in some of the Sunni leadership they know out there, so they have a relationship with these guys. And they will go out there and they will give Central Command and the Pentagon a shared reality so everyone knows what is happening with the Iraqis and confirm or deny what is out there and we will begin to build that operational base there to help the Iraqis continue the fight with ISIS.

KEILAR: Yes, a shared reality, so maybe it's not just RUMINT, as you more, rumor intelligence. Paul Cruickshank, Colonel James Reese, appreciate both of you. Thank you.

While the war moves into a new phase, at least one member of Congress believe it's illegal. That would be Rand Paul. The Kentucky senator is suggesting that the war is against the law. In a piece he wrote for The Daily Beast, he says: "I believe the president must come to Congress to begin a war. I also believe the War Powers Act is misunderstood. President Obama acted without true constitutional authority even before the 90 days expired since we are not under attack at that time. But in either case, this war is now illegal. It might be declared and made valid or it must be ended.'

And he added that: "It's time for conservatives, people in his own party, to say that enough is enough. Obama's commandeering of Congress's powers from making war to remaking our health care system to stop. There needs to be an across-the-board, consistent defense of the constitutional separation of powers. Nothing less will win the day. That should include this current battle in the Middle East. Taking military action against ISIS is justified. The president acting without Congress is not."

That's what Rand Paul says.

Joining me now to discuss the legal implications, Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst.

This is always the tension, right, Jeffrey, between Congress and the White House and it also is fascinating when you look at a president who was once in the Senate. He felt this way that, after 90 days, the president needs to consult Congress. He once felt that way. But is it illegal?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the Constitution says only Congress has the right the to declare war.

But we haven't had a declared war since World War II, but we have had a lot of wars since then, Korea, Vietnam, several in Iraq.

KEILAR: We sure have.

TOOBIN: And the way the system has evolved is that Congress passes these resolutions that authorize the president to use military force.

In Iraq, in the ISIS situation, President Obama is still using the authorization from 2001 that just happened after 9/11 from 2002. The question is, is that good enough, is that an authorization that applies to a war that is 14 years later? Rand Paul says no. Congress doesn't appear to be wanting to fight the president on this one, except for Rand Paul.

KEILAR: And this is what is fascinating about him saying that it's illegal. And he does butt heads with other members of his party.

He really takes aim at Republicans in this. He doesn't name them, but I'm assuming means John McCain and Lindsey Graham, folks who are on board with the president's policy. And he says just because you're on board with the policy doesn't mean you should let rule of law go by the wayside.

TOOBIN: Right.

Well, and Rand Paul is also sort of trying to have it two ways because he's saying Congress really needs to get involved and authorize this illegal war, but, if asked, I would say yes. So he's not saying he wants the war to stop. He just wants a different kind of more formal authorization.

Congress also in general wants it two ways, because they want to be able to criticize the president, but they don't want to have to actually take a stand and say up or down whether they think the war should go forward.

KEILAR: Because even the authorization you mentioned has been a huge liability for a number of, say, presidential candidates. Right?

TOOBIN: Including Hillary -- former Senator and former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who lost the nomination to Barack Obama in 2008 principally because of her vote for the use of force in Iraq, which then senator -- actually I guess he wasn't even a senator at that point, then state Senator Barack Obama opposed.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: So, all right, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much for breaking it down for us. Really appreciate it.

TOOBIN: All right.

KEILAR: If protests in Ferguson, Missouri, turn violent, people there will be ready for anything. Gun sales are skyrocketing ahead of a grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case. Coming up, I will be speaking with one person who is selling those guns. Who is buying them? That's we want to know. What are they buying? That's ahead.

And then growing outrage in Mexico after 43 students vanished. Suspicion is focused on the mayor of a town and his wife. Our calls her Mexico's first lady of murder.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The city of Ferguson, Missouri, is on edge and bracing for news. Any day now, a grand jury decision is set to come town in the case of Michael Brown.

Three months after the unarmed African-American teenager was shot dead by a white Ferguson police officer, we are expecting to find out whether officer Darren Wilson will be cleared or if he will indicted, and if indicted on what charge.

I want to bring in Steven King. He's the owner of Metro Shooting Supplies in Bridgeton, Missouri, which is just outside of Ferguson.

Steven, thanks for being with us. And tell us a little bit about this. In the weeks following Michael Brown's death, business was pretty good for you. You saw a lot of gun sales not just at your store, but around Saint Louis in general. What about right now?

STEVEN KING, OWNER, METRO SHOOTING SUPPLIES: Well, Brianna, you are exactly right.

In August, gun sales went up exponentially, not only at our store, but around the entire Saint Louis metropolitan area. It's kind of tapered off over the last couple of months. And now in the last week or so, sales have started to skyrocket once again.

KEILAR: Tell us a little bit about who is coming in to buy these guns, and when they're purchasing the guns, what are they saying to you about why are they buying them and maybe why they're even first- time buyers?

KING: Well, we have a wide variety of people that are purchasing firearms right now. We have got many first-time buyers. We have go elderly people. We have got white, black, Asian. We have got women. We have got men. We have got head of households.

But primarily we have got people -- 100 percent this weekend -- I can tell you 100 percent of the people that have bought a firearm have bought it you because of some sort of fear of the unknown, what will happen this next week or so with the Ferguson verdict.

KEILAR: So they come in and say to you I'm worried about what the grand jury will decide and I'm worried about what is going to happen after we find out the news?

KING: That's absolutely right. They're afraid.

They saw -- thank goodness, because of the media, they saw what the protesters are capable of doing in August. And now they're determined not to have their guard down this time around. Back in August, we had a lot of people who frantically bought firearms, signed up for classes, learned how to shoot. And they were in fear that their house was going to get burned down or burglarized or destroyed by the looters and the vandals.

This time, we're getting a far greater area of the metropolitan Saint Louis market that is afraid that this violence will be more widespread. So they're in fear and they're coming to make sure that their house and their family Is protected.

KEILAR: What kind of guns are people buying?

KING: We have sold a lot of modern sporting rifles on the AR-15 platform.

We have sold several dozen home defense pump shotguns. And the majority of the people are buying personal defense or home defense handguns, revolvers and pistols.

KEILAR: Is it just locals who are coming in? Is it just people right there in the area?

KING: No, we're serving about a 50-mile radius of the Saint Louis metropolitan market. We have a lot of the Ferguson, Florissant, Hazelwood, Bridgeton people that are -- we're a local gun shop, so they service -- we service them anyway.

But now we're getting people as far as out Wentzville, which is about 40 miles west of us, all the way from Illinois, which is about 30 miles east of us. And as far south, 50 miles south, they're coming up to purchase firearms. And they have been told through the Internet, social media that no neighborhood is safe after this verdict comes out if Wilson is not indicted. So the fear of the unknown is what is driving sales right now.

KEILAR: Yes, it just shows you how much tension there is in Ferguson and really farther, very much farther of a field and probably across the country as well. Steven King, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

KING: Absolutely. Thank you.

KEILAR: Mexican authorities are sifting through charred remains which could belong to 43 college students who disappeared. This is a grisly story, a nation mourning them now, but that grief is turning to fury and frustration that the mystery is unsolved.

Plus, Bush/Clinton is so 1992, right? But could we see an election with both of those names in two years? Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, could that happen? We have that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Abducted by police on orders from a mayor and his wife, turned over to a gang and burned and thrown into a river, according to Mexico's attorney general, this was the fate of 43 missing college students.

Three men have been arrested in connection with the disappearance. Mexico's attorney general says they have confessed to killing a large number of people believed to be these students. But the order to kill allegedly came from the wife of a mayor.

She and her husband were apprehended last week, allegedly fleeing after the students disappeared. The local police chief is still on the run.

I want to bring in Michael Daly. He's a special correspondent for The Daily Beast.

This woman has actually been nicknamed Mexico's first lady of murder. And you say that she -- I guess take us really to the beginning. She was having essentially a party and as all of this happened, she and her husband were dancing at sort of a celebration.

MICHAEL DALY, THE DAILY BEAST: She threw a big party for herself. It's all over Facebook. You can look at it, the invitation.

And it was celebrating all her good works she had done. The party was to kick off the campaign for her to become the mayor herself. And she was all set to give a big speech. She's got the party that is in the central plaza called the Plaza of the Three Guarantees, which is that Mexico will be united and independent and loyal to the church. And it was this great moment and she hears that these 30 students are in town.

And she assumed that they were there to protest and to disrupt her party. In fact, what I'm told is they didn't even know there was a party, that they had gone there just to get a bus so they could go to a memorial in Mexico City.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: They were connecting on their way to Mexico City.

(CROSSTALK)

DALY: What they do is they kind of borrow a bus so that these are poor kids, and then they bring it back. So they went to get a bus.

And they're heading off. And they happened to be driving on the way past the plaza. And what one gang leader told the Mexican cops is that she told her husband, teach these guys a lesson. And the gang leader says that it isn't the husband who is the main connection with the gang, it's the mayor's wife herself.

KEILAR: What do we know about the details of what happened from that point on and how these -- what we believe to have happened is that these 43 college students were killed. What do we know about that?

DALY: We know that there was some shooting. At the start of it, there were a couple people shot.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: As they're on the bus? Yes.

DALY: As they're on the bus.

And then they -- what the people who have been arrested say is that the students were all loaded onto trucks and they driven to this -- behind this garbage dump and they were murdered and then their bodies were burned.

And then the kind of spooky this is that about the same time these murders were taking place, the mayor and wife were dancing in the plaza to a band.

KEILAR: You say this isn't the first time that this couple had done something terrible.

DALY: Well, allegedly.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Allegedly. But they're accused of sort of this is their M.O., right?

DALY: The M.O.

Well, a year ago May, it's kind of shame on everybody that nothing was done back then, but a year ago May, there were some people who did come to protest who were murdered. And one of the survivors of that massacre escaped and said that the mayor himself had taken -- personally taken part in the massacre.

The local bishop, who is a magnificent guy named Vera, actually traveled all the way to Washington, D.C., to testify about that massacre. And everybody just shrugged.

KEILAR: And now a nation is up in arms about this.

Michael Daly, thanks so much for shedding light on this. Appreciate you being with us.

DALY: Thank you.

KEILAR: Bill Clinton was in the White House for eight years. George H.W. Bush and his son had it for 12 years. Could we see both of these families back on the ballot in two years?

And Richard Nixon wasn't the only president, it appears, to secretly tape conversations in the White House. We're learning that Ronald Reagan did if, too. So what do the newly released tapes tell us about his time in the White House? Pretty interesting stuff. We will have that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Bottom of the hour now. I'm Brianna Keilar.

Let's ask this question. Do Americans prefer political dynasties? The stars are already aligning for Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush to run for president in 2016. Hillary Clinton in fact shows every sign of planning a White House run. Will Jeb Bush take the plunge, though? That's a big question right now.

Here is what his brother, the former president, says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's 50/50. He and I are very close. On the other hand, he's not here knocking on my door agonizing about the decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, so if it's 50/50, that's -- I think that is pretty good. If you end up with a bunch of people lining up behind you, I think it tilts more than 50/50.

I want to talk about all of this and the potential for another Bush vs. Clinton matchup with CNN political commentators S.E. Cupp and Van Jones.

Van, first off, if you have had a Bush a Clinton on every presidential ballot from 1980 to 2004, what does this say about this country if we turn back to the same two families again to be our White House picks?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it says that we have got very limited imagination in the country.

I would say, though, that we're not scared of Bush. If we get a chance to say Clinton economy vs. Bush economy over and over and over again, that's not a bad thing for Democrats. But I do think that there are probably a few other last names in American politics that should have a shot.