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NYC Announces New Pot Policy; Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush Have Similar Problems; Secret Tapings of Ronald Reagan Released; Behind the Secret Mission to North Korea; VA Secretary Robert McDonald on VA Overhaul

Aired November 10, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: What do you think, S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush have similar problems in which that might be fine leaders and accomplished candidates, but their parties have changed so much underneath them since the last time either of them held elected office. They are really going to have to contour to meet the demands of the new Republican and Democratic Party. And we've already seen Hillary Clinton struggle to do that, struggle to act like a progressive. And Jeb Bush has actually struggled to try and reach, you know, far right conservatives on issues like immigration. So they are really going to have to figure out how to play to the far sides of their parties and do that in a pretty limited period of time, especially for Jeb Bush who has been out of the spotlight for so long.

KEILAR: What do you think about that, Van? I mean, we heard Hillary Clinton in a way recently, she said and her team saying she essentially misspoke, or her supporters saying that she spoke when she said businesses don't create jobs. And then that she meant basically tax cuts for businesses don't create jobs. She had to kind of correct herself as are swinging from one side to the other. I mean, is that the truth that, you know, she does struggle to kind of really speak in the vernacular of her party?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that, obvious, I mean, I think is it true, the Democratic party has moved more to the left than it was during the 1990s. Republican party has moved more to the right than it was in the 1999. I think S.E. Cupp is exactly right on that point.

The challenge I think that Hillary Clinton is going to have is that for a whole bunch of people who are the base voters for our party, in the Democratic Party, African-American, Latinos, younger voters, they don't know her. And they know you. They think well of her. They think well of her husband, but she's not somebody that walks into the room and lights the place on fire the way that Bill Clinton did, with the Obama does. And so, it is certainly Obama and the type.

That means she is going to have to really figure out how to connect. And you are going to see her struggling to connect with this new party. This is a party that is really tired of Wall Street getting its way, really tired of income inequality, really tired of economic issues. And that's not been her forte. KEILAR: Yes, she needs to go -- I'm sorry. Go on, S.E.

CUPP: Yes. Let me just respond to Van Because he's absolutely right. But the advantage that Hillary has, because Jeb has the same problem, too. If you go in the room full of say Ted Cruz supporters, they will groan at the mansion of Jeb Bush.

The difference, the advantage that Hillary has as progressive is like then who might not think Hillary as the ideal candidate would still go out and will vote for her. But Ted Cruz conservatives will stay home if Jeb Bush is the nominee and if the primary process in general election that gets him there completely ignores tell.

So there is an advantage on the left and that the Democrats, I think, are more coalesced around Hillary, even if they find problems with here, then conservatives are around Jeb Bush.

KEILAR: So you think it's harder to Jeb Bush that it is for Hillary Clinton to push through?

CUPP: Well, I don't want to say it this way. But conservatives, certain conservatives are a little more principles when it comes to their vote than I think some of the progressives will be.

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: When it comes to the point --

JONES: Hold on a second there.

Well, I tell you this. If Bush is in fact the nominee, our base is going to be fired up in a way that you can't believe. So that it's interesting. These two things actually work against each other. Hillary Clinton will get, you know, some support from progressives and they will get warmer at we go. But if Bush is on the ticket, you are going to see people going nuts trying to stop another Bush from getting in. We didn't like the last two Bushes. So if you have a Clinton and a Bush, you have more enthusiasm from Democrats, possibly less from Republicans.

KEILAR: Yes. And we'll see if what is old is new again and how that plays.

S.E. Cupp, Van Jones, thanks to both of you.

CUPP: Thanks.

KEILAR: Secret tapings didn't end at the White House during the era of Richard Nixon. We now know that president Ronald Reagan did it, too. In the "SITUATION ROOM" no less, and in conversations with world leaders. What did he say and what does it say about his own time in the White House?

And New York is drastically changing how it handles marijuana possession. No more handcuffs, just a ticket. So, is this long overdue or is this a huge mistake? We will have a debate ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: New York City population 8.5 million. And minutes ago, it announced a new policy covering people caught with small amounts of marijuana. Rather than reaching for the handcuffs, cops will now have the option of writing a ticket and sending pot users on their way. The move starts November 19th. And it's to deal with the disproportionate number of minorities who are arrested for pot possession under the city's much criticized stop and frisk policy.

"The New York Times" reports a study from the director of the marijuana arrests research project, it found 86 percent of arrests through August for carrying pot were of blacks or Latinos.

Joining me now to talk about this, the editor in-chief of "High Times" magazine Dan Skye and we have CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.

Dan, you say, and you know, sort of no pun intended, it's high time that this happened.

DAN SKYE, EDITOR AT-LARGE, HIGH TIMES: Indeed it is. I mean, this has been going since Giuliani administration. We see 50,000 people arrested here for simple possession, 86 percent as you say, are people of color. It costs the city between $1,000 and $2,000 for every single arrest. So this works out to be about $75 million a year that New York City is spending in tax dollars to prosecute people for simple possession of pot.

KEILAR: But you say, Sunny, that this isn't the right way to attack this, that what really needs to be dealt with is the stop and frisk policy and not really the treatment of marijuana possession in small amounts.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think that's right. Because what we're really dealing with is the issue of police reform, right? And we're also dealing with disparate impact that these arrests have had on the Latino community and on the African-American communities.

But we still know that, at least in New York, possession of marijuana is illegal. And we also now know with this new policy that officers have the discretion to arrest or to provide a summons. Who is to say then that they only arrest blacks and provide summons for the white folks that are found to possess marijuana.

And so I think, again, if you're giving a summons, now there is no way to track the desperate impact because summons are still identify race. And so now, there is less transparency in this process. And it's really an end run around the prosecutor's office because at least, if a prosecutor is looking at it, the prosecutor can determine whether or not this initial stop and whether or not at risk are legal or not.

KEILAR: What do you think about that?

SKYE: It still boils down to why are we arresting people for marijuana at this point? For God sake, we have already seen what the impact on the social (INAUDIBLE) of the United States, as in Colorado and Washington. You know, it's nothing. It is negligible. It's time for the New York City and New York State to get smart and legalize. I suggest open coffee shops in New York City. They do it in Amsterdam. They are doing it in Colorado. What a boom to tourism this would be.

KEILAR: New York does OK with tourism.

SKYE: It is about time.

HOSTIN: I got to say --

SKYE: It is about time to get smarter. It is about time we get smart with marijuana and realize that it is innocuous.

HOSTIN: You know, I disagree with that. I don't think that an illegal drug is innocuous. I think it's very clear --

SKYE: So it's not innocuous -- it is not innocuous because it's illegal, is what you are saying?

HOSTIN: Well, I don't think it is innocuous because it is a drug. I think there is certainly a place for medical marijuana. But I think that what you're talking about really is the legalization of marijuana.

SKYE: Absolutely. That's what we are talking about.

HOSTIN: And I think that when we're now talking about the legalization of drug that have effects on your mind, it does have effects on your behavior, you know, you really opening up a kind of warm, when do you stop? Should we legalize that? Should we legalize cocaine?

(CROSSTALK)

SKYE: I don't know. We have alcohol legal right now. We have cigarettes legal. These are the most poisonous things possible and our government subsidies them. You can do to customs. If you look at customs, and shop in alcohols and cigarettes in supermarkets.

HOSTIN: Are you advocating legalizing cocaine, as well?

SKYE: No. I'm here it talk about marijuana.

HOSTIN: Why not? Where do you draw the line.

KEILAR: Do you see this move to give a court summons and not arrest folks who has a small amount of marijuana, as a step towards legalization?

SKYE: I think it's a nebulous policy and we are going to see how it works out. Because once again, anytime you arrest people and put them through the system, you are impacting their ability to get employment and to get a proper education. And this is, you know --

HOSTIN: But it's illegal. SKYE: You keep saying it's illegal.

HOSTIN: That's what the law is. And the issue --

SKYE: It's time to change the law. And as a federal prosecutor, you should know that.

HOSTIN: Well, I don't agree that we should change the law. But if you're advocating changing the law, that hasn't happened yet.

SKYE: It has happened?

HOSTIN: This solution --

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: It is happening in other places as I agreed. This solution in terms of somehow picketing or arresting is again, not the answer to what the issue is. The issue is laws are desperately affecting people of color.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: You have to treat everyone the same way.

SKYE: Absolutely.

KEILAR: It's not like the offense goes away.

SKYE: We have to make the arrest for marijuana more balanced. So we have to start arresting an equal amount of white people, I guess, that is what you're saying, correct?

HOSTIN: Well, if you break the law, regardless of your color --

SKYE: Right. So let's make sure we arrest more white people--.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You're saying people of color are disproportionately put through the stop and frisk policy.

HOSTIN: And are arrested for possession of marijuana, when we know that there is just as much usage in the white community of marijuana. And so bottom line is if it's illegal, then you have to apply the law color blindly. Now, the other issue is whether or not we will legalize marijuana.

SKYE: And we will. We're getting there.

HOSTIN: I'm one of the few people, I suppose, that believes that is not --

SKYE: I'm sorry. (INAUDIBLE) says a gateways drug. Andrew, get with the program.

KEILAR: Well, it is great to hear two different points of view, I will say that.

Dan Skye, Sunny Hostin, thanks so much for both of you. Appreciate it.

SKYE: My pleasure. Thank you.

HOSTIN: You bet.

KEILAR: Up next, we have breaking news. Why the rescue mission to bring home two Americans from North Korea almost did not happen. We have that story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Newly released White House audio reveals that Ronald Reagan kind of like Richard Nixon recorded some of his phone calls while serving as president. Let's listen to Ronald Reagan and British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher. This is October 1983. And by way of explanation, this is hours of after Reagan without informing his trusted ally Thatcher had ordered troops in to grenade (INAUDIBLE).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We think -- we want to put them kind of out ahead in helping in the restoration of the gunman so there will be no taint of big old Uncle Sam trying to impose a government on.

MARGARET THATCHER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, there is a lot of work to do yet.

REAGAN: Yes. Yes.

THATCHER: (INAUDIBLE)

REAGAN: We think that the military part of this it is going to end very shortly. But I sad say I'm sorry for any embarrassment we caused. But please understand, it was just our fear of our own weakness over here with regard for secrecy.

THATCHER: (INAUDIBLE)

REAGAN: My pleasure.

THATCHER: How is Nancy?

REAGAN: Just fine.

THATCHER: Good. Give her my love.

REAGAN: I shall. All right.

THATCHER: Thank you very much. (INAUDIBLE)

REAGAN: All right. Go get them. Eat them alive.

THATCHER: Good-bye.

REAGAN: All right, bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jake Tapper with us now to talk about this. He is our chief Washington correspondent.

I mean, I really have two questions for you, Jake. One, is this OK that these conversations were recorded, and this isn't the only one. But also, what does it tell us about Ronald Reagan and his communication style with other leaders?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think it's pretty much assumed that world leaders record their phone calls. I've seen transcripts of President Obama's phone calls with world leaders. It's a way to have a record especially if there is some dispute about what happened on that phone call.

And so, it doesn't really surprise me, but it is great to hear the actual audio. And the Margaret Thatcher foundation had posted the transcript of this phone call many years ago, but it's not the actual audio. There is nothing like actually hearing these people talk to one another.

And it is certainly reaffirms a lot of what we have been told about Ronald Reagan. And you know that he had a very close relationship with Margaret Thatcher. One of the calls you hear him making a request of the Israeli prime minister at the time, and up (INAUDIBLE) trying to ask him to delay withdrawing Israeli forces from Lebanon. And you hear some of the tension between the two men.

And in fact, a few months later, Bagan (ph) resigned. Perhaps, not surprisingly after the very tense situation there when it came to Lebanon. So I would say that these tapes reaffirm a lot of what we hear. And I can't believe that world leaders don't think that they're being recorded when they're talking to each other in these calls that are set up by aides and official transcripts have to be written up afterwards.

KEILAR: Yes. And it's so key what they say. I mean, if you need to go back -- if the administration needs to go back and refer to it.

What did you think -- I was sort of struck by that conversation with Margaret Thatcher. He's calling -- he's sort of embarrassed, he has to show humility. And by the end, she's asking how his wife is doing. I mean, it seems like -- it kind of clear -- that it clear things up between them?

TAPPER: Well, I think it does. He's apologizing for not giving her any warning before the invasion of Grenada. What's interesting, he starts the phone call by talking about a British tradition, by talking about, how we like to -- if he were there, he'd throw his hat into the room before he came, which is something people do when they're apologizing, when they're unwelcome visitors, rather. And I think of what's one of the interesting things about this, Reagan has this reputation for a big, strong leader, somebody who increased the Pentagon budget and so forth.

But really he had a very soft touch in some of these calls. You hear it with Margaret Thatcher. You also hear it in a phone call, not so much of a soft touch but a diplomatic touch with the ruler of Pakistan, a nontraditional U.S. ally where he's trying to talk about getting some hostages released. You also hear that same diplomatic art.

KEILAR: It's fascinating to hear. And they didn't call him the great communicator for nothing, I guess.

Jake Tapper, thanks so much. We'll see you on "the LEAD" which is start in just minutes.

TAPPER: Thank you.

KEILAR: Now just in to CNN -- thanks, Jake.

Just in to CNN, that secret mission to North Korea nearly didn't happen. This is pretty amazing.

As the plane carrying director of national intelligence James Clapper to Pyongyang had two separate mechanical issues.

CNN's Jim Sciutto joining me now with more on this.

I mean, Jim, this is sort of amazing that this plane would have had two issues and that it really could have gotten in the way of all of this happening.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question, it is incredible. You're flying your top spy, the director of the national intelligence, James Clapper, from Washington to Pyongyang for a very sensitive mission. And twice it has to stop on the way because of mechanical issues. Had to stop and wait (ph) three-and-a-half, and then when that issue was dealt with, apparently had to stop again in Guam on the way to Pyongyang.

At the end of the day, it just delayed the mission by a day. So he was meant to get there a day earlier and then those Americans would have been freed a day earlier. So you know, the mission probably would have gone on. I imagine the U.S. would have mustered another plane if this one proved, you know, incapable of making the trip all the way to Pyongyang. But it's certainly embarrassing.

And what's interesting about it, actually, it's not the first time it's happened to the U.S. flight crew for, you know, for flying senior officials around. John Kerry, you'll remember, Brianna, just a few weeks ago returning from sensitive negotiations in the Middle East, his plane broke down. He had to fly commercial home.

So it gets to a larger issue here where the U.S. fleet has to be upgraded. You have a number of folks in Washington are pushing for that. And here we had it happen right in the middle of one of the most sensitive missions.

KEILAR: Yes. Maybe it makes their case for that.

Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

We're back in a moment.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: CNN broke this story in November 2013. Now the department of Veterans Affairs is about to undergo what its leader calls the biggest overhaul in its history. I'm talking about the severely delayed medical care for thousands of veterans under the VA. CNN has reported at least 40 veterans died as they waited to get treated. And just this afternoon, the VA released the details of the reorganization, including the creation of a chief customer service officer.

Let's turn now to CNN's Drew Griffin, who broke the VA story.

Drew, this reform also includes more than 1,000 people possibly getting fired. Tell us more about this.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, the overhaul involves basically turning this more into a consumer friendly organization that delivers a product, medical care to veterans, sounds a lot like big business. Well, that's where the secretary Bob McDonald comes from. He is bringing that experience at Procter & Gamble trying to change the system to make the customers, the veterans, more accessible, easier to get into the VA and to try to just improve a system that's been broken down.

Now, to do that, he is also trying to fire people, trying to fire 35 people initially, maybe up to 1,000. But he said he's having a heck of a time doing that because of all the rules and regulations involved with the federal bureaucracy. And then he wants to hire people, as many as 28,000 doctors and nurses to fill the void that's needed within that VA medical system. As he said, his first 100 days, it is the start. He's trying to do it, you know. But if you just can't do this fast enough because of the problems over there -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. So certainly it is something that will take time. But let's listen to some of what the VA secretary Robert McDonald said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MCDONALD, SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: The law says that with this level of employee, what's called a senior executive service employee, I have to propose a disciplinary action. That disciplinary action gets judged by a judicial process. And then only then does it get resolved.

I need to make sure every single one of these results in a positive disposition consistent with my proposal. Again, if Congress wants me to follow a different procedure, they have to pass a different law. The only thing the new law did was it took the appeal time and cut it in half.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, Drew Griffin, reporting on that for us.

And we're also hearing from the secretary of Veterans Affairs that he's going to create this customer service officer. The point of it is to really understand and also to respond to veterans' needs. That's what we're hearing from the VA. And then there would also be new partnerships between private organizations with the VA. And that it would also be re-organization to try to simplify the department's structure which is, as we reported, quite (INAUDIBLE). We will continue to follow this with Drew who originally broke the story

"The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starting right now.