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Dr. Drew
Woman`s Controversial Decision After Fiance`s Death; Sex Offender Controversy Surrounding Mama June
Aired November 11, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Tonight, a friend joins us live to tell us what she knows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLISON TALLEY, FRIEND OF WIFE WHO FELL OFF CLIFF: When I hear people say she walked up to a cliff, she did not walk up to a cliff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Plus, a woman is controversial decision after her fiance dies in a motorcycle crash. She turns to social media to raise money to get
sperm from his body. The Behavioral Bureau has some issues with this. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host here with me -- co-host, of course is Samantha Schacher. And, coming up, Honey Boo Boos sister,
Anna Cardwell.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: Yes. And, last night, Dr. Drew, Anna came on our show. She spoke about the whole molestation scandal and she
was so brave to talk about her traumatic ordeal.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Well, tonight, Honey Boo Boo`s sister will be back with us to speak about it again.
PINSKY: Great. And, she was lovely. She was a great guest, and she really spoke about it.
SCHACHER: So great.
PINSKY: It made international press. So, we are going to revisited again tonight. But, first new details about the man accused of pushing his
wife off a cliff. Two years ago, he claim she fell off taking pictures. There were no witnesses.
And, here is something else. The first wife died back in 1995. He says she was crushed to death while they were trying to change a tire. As
-- was it Vanessa reminded us last night that she does not know any woman that were out in the middle of the night changing tires. Again, no
witnesses, but watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Did you push your wife?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Her death was first thought to be an accident. Now, investigators say 50-year-old Toni Henthorn was murdered by
her husband.
Suspicion has also swirled around the death of his first wife. Sandra Lynn Henthorn. Henthorn`s jeep fell on her on a remote mountain road.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: His first wife is crushed, crushed death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Helping him change a tire. Second wife Toni was first seriously hurt in 2011. A large beam he was carrying -- Oops! Fell and
hit her in the head. In 2011, the same wife Toni fell 50 feet to her demise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: He said she slipped and fell 50 feet to her death while taking a picture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BERTOLET, VICTIM`S BROTHER: He had a hand in my sister`s death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com; Karamo Brown, host of #Ownshow on Ophra.com and Heather McDonald, Comedian Star of
her own special on Showtime, "I don`t mean to brag." All right, Sam, what else do we know about this man and the life insurance policy?
SCHACHER: There were three life insurance policies, Dr. Drew, totaling over $4.5 million. And, just two days after his wife`s death,
somebody, someone tried to collect on it. He also had a 300,000 life insurance policy on his first wife.
PINSKY: And, did not he call or somebody called who made a claim in the first $1.2 million or something --
SCHACHER: Yes. And, he was --
PINSKY: -- right after she died?
SCHACHER: Well, they say it was two days after, but guess what? It was the first working day.
PINSKY: First working day after she died.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: OK. Anahita, defense attorney. Is it possible, could you make a case that this is just some sort of terrible coincidence?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I agree, Dr. Drew. Obviously, it does not look good when two of your wives die under these
suspicious circumstances, but of course he has some viable defenses here. Because, he is saying this was an accident.
She was just trying to take a picture and she fell. And, then if you look at the Coroner`s report. The Coroner`s report says, we do not know
what the cause of death was. They did not rule that this was a homicide. They are saying you cannot rule out homicide. But, at the end of the day,
it is inconclusive. And, when we are talking about a motive, I have not heard any motive. You are mentioning these insurance policies --
PINSKY: $4.5 million! $4.5 million insurance!
SEDAGHATFAR: Do you want me to respond to that, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: No. I want Karamo to respond to that.
SEDAGHATFAR: There is no evidence --
PINSKY: What do you think, Karamo? Go ahead.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- there is no evidence that he --
KARAMO BROWN, TELEVISION HOST: I think that is a motive.
PINSKY: You asked me if I want your response and answered, no. I asked Karamo to respond.
(LAUGHING)
BROWN: Yes. That is money. This man wanted money. It is no --
SEDAGHATFAR: Was he collecting the money, Karamo? Was he the one that was trying to collect the money?
BROWN: Say it one more time, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Was the husband the one that was calling in to try to collect that money from the late wife?
PINSKY: We do no know.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
BROWN: It does not matter who is calling, but somebody called on the first business day to get that money. This is suspicious. This woman
just had knee surgery. Do you think she was really up a cliff, trying to go up there? And, let us go back to the first wife. Not to go on gender
stereotypes, but I do not know one woman that is going to get out of her car to fix a tire.
PINSKY: Hold on, Karamo. Hold on. I got somebody that speaks to gender stereotypes sometimes. Heather, would you be out there changing the
tire late at night when your husband says, I think there is a loose tire? Not a flat tire.
SCHACHER: He said mushy.
PINSKY: A mushy tire. A mushy tire.
HEATHER MCDONALD, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I cannot change a tire. I cannot even put one of those boxes together that you get from the office depot.
You know? the little boxes for your papers. Seriously, if my husband made me tried to do that today, I would not be doing that.
But, you know, I think 4.5 million, just a fact that someone ordered to have that much insurance seems enormous. I mean unless she makes $10
million a year, I think it is ridiculous.
PINSKY: She was an ophthalmologist.
SEDAGHATFAR: She is an ophthalmologist.
PINSKY: She made a lot of money. But, Heather, are you getting any ideas here? Is there something maybe you are planning, is that what you
are saying?
MCDONALD: No. But, you know, we were talking about, there have -- in the defense of it, there is an entire book about accidental -- supposed
accidental death that had happened at the Grand Canyon, and so many of them are taking a picture and getting too close to the edge. So, I mean it does
happen. People do fall off cliffs. But, I do think the fact that she just had knee surgery -
BROWN: Exactly.
PINSKY: And -- And, she apparently fell face forward off the cliff.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: You would not think you would slide down and fall on your back. But, Anahita, maybe you are right. Maybe, the fact that it took so
long to charge him, they took a while to sort of get some sort of case together. Is that evidence of that?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I mean they just want to make sure that they have all of their ducks in a row before they go charging someone with first-
degree murder. I do not think that is unusual. But, I think there is reasonable doubt here.
And, guess what? All of that evidence about his first wife and the other incident with this deceased wife, that is not coming in to this
trial. Because, the defense is going to argue, it is not relevant. You cannot bring in prior bad acts unless there is an exception. None of those
exceptions apply here. So, the jurors are not even gong to hear about that.
PINSKY: And, by the way, Anahita. He kept changing his story.
SCHACHER: Four or five times.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. That is terrible.
PINSKY: Oh!
SEDAGHATFAR: And, that is why I always say shut your mouth.
PINSKY: Oh! It is terrible.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: So, if you are guilty, do not talk at all, what you are saying.
SEDAGHATFAR: Do not talk ever. Even if you are not guilty.
BROWN: Does not that show he had a motive that he changed his story four or five times?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. No, because these statements get misconstrued all the time by law enforcement. We have seen people when they give
confessions or they give statements, and it is not record either by video or by tape. It gets misconstrued. And, that is why you never talk to the
police without an attorney. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
SCHACHER: Well, I will tell you what our viewers think. Our viewers believe he is guilty. For example, from Oscar Garcia, he tweets, "This
story, a no brainer #guilty. And then --
PINSKY: Are you guys able to put her --
SCHACHER: To see that tweet?
PINSKY: Yes. Put the tweets up, so go ahead if you can.
SCHACHER: And, then we have from Kristen Weekly, "I do not know. He still sounds suspicious to me. I think he wanted money too." And, as I
was just going all the tweets, money is the root of all evil. From Peter Hoffman, "This guy could not be more guilty." So, for all of us it just
does not sit right. It is very fishy.
PINSKY: Heather, you got --
MCDONALD: I do. I do think that anybody that is going to marry a widow or widower should really look at how that person died. Because, I
think -- I mean I really think that is kind of shady. And, there have been these other cases. There was the guy -- who was the guy that Rob Lowe
played in the amazing --
SEDAGHATFAR: Drew Peterson.
MCDONALD: Yes. Drew Peterson. His wives all mysteriously died in really weird ways. And, I just do not believe anybody has that terrible of
luck with women, you know, with ridiculous accident.
PINSKY: Well, we will see. Next up, I actually have a close friend of the second wife who has doubts about the suspect`s story. We are going
to hear from somebody who actually knew this guy. She will join us live next. And, later, the sex offender controversy surrounding Mama June. We
will hear from Honey Boo Boo`s older sister. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERTOLET: It is an extremely logical oblation to come to -- that he had a hand in my sister`s death. Here is a man for 20 years. He scammed,
lied to have two wives die of freak accidents. The odds are better off that you win the Powerball Lottery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam. We are talking about the man accused of pushing his second wife off a cliff. Two years ago, investigators finally
brought charges just a few days ago. So, let us bring in the Behavioral Bureau to discuss. Wendy Walsh, Psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love
Detox"; Spirit, host of the daily helpline; Emily Roberts, Psychotherapist. All right, Sam, what are friends and family saying about this guy?
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh, Dr. Drew. The friends and family, let us see. I have here --
PINSKY: You got the internet go wild on this --
SCHACHER: Yes. I am really into what you, guys, were saying on Twitter. Excuse me. OK. So, we have from the second wife`s brother.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: He says, quote, "He was so dominant over my sister and the child. It was almost like whatever he said went." However, a neighbor
described him as this, quote, "Very charming."
PINSKY: Interesting. Well, being charming is not necessarily a good thing.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Sometimes, that is a sign of trouble.
SCHACHER: A lot of serial killers are very charming.
PINSKY: Well, a lot of people with some issues, they are charming. So, behavior bureau, stand by. I want to talk now on the phone, Allison
Talley. She was a close friend of the second wife.
Now, Allison, do you believe this man`s story that your friend, who -- by the way, our condolences. I mean I know it was a long time ago. But, I
mean this all resurrected again, cannot feel good. Do you believe the story that he said she fell off the cliff while taking a picture?
ALLISON TALLEY, FRIEND OF WIFE WHO FELL OFF CLIFF: Well, I have never really bought that. She is not an outdoor person. She was not someone who
liked to go on extensive and strenuous hikes and things like that, despite what you breed what he said.
PINSKY: Allison, was it the kind of thing when she died, you thought, "Oh, my God, did he hurt her?"
TALLEY: It was exactly that reaction. You know, after years of spending a lot of time with her and with them together, and just knowing
exactly the kinds of things that they do -- our family, we are from Mississippi but we spent every winter out there, skiing.
She did not even ski -- ski or hike or any of the things that we would go out there to do because she had some knee issues and had multiple
surgeries on her knees for a long time. So, that was not just something that she -- that she ever did or was ever interested in. Her idea of fun
was to sit in the cabin and drinking coffee.
PINSKY: Did this man ever talk about his first wife about how she had died?
TALLEY: Yes. Actually, the first time I ever met him, he told me that he was a widower. And, I did not ask how. I just assumed it was
something typical, you know?
PINSKY: A medical problem.
TALLEY: And, later, I asked Toni about it. Not much later. I was curious, it is somebody you want to know about somebody. What happened
there? And, she did tell never story. And it was, you know, it was a compelling story. Of course a lot of details were left out but it did seem
like he was a very, very quintessential bachelor. An eligible bachelor, as what I liked to call him at the time. That was part of the story, I
believe.
PINSKY: And, it sounded compelling that the wife got under the car and got crushed?
TALLEY: Well, that is not the story.
PINSKY: What is the story he told?
TALLEY: Well, he did not tell the story at all. She told it.
PINSKY: Even she had it wrong.
TALLEY: Yes. I do not think she knew the story.
PINSKY: What did she say?
TALLEY: That they had been out on a drive, on a Sunday afternoon. And, I am not even sure which Sunday now. The story was better when it was
a Sunday afternoon drive -- out just enjoying the scenery, beautiful day and they had a flat or something was wrong with the car.
They got out and she went and opened the trunk to get the jack out. And, the trunk popped and hit her. And it was very freak, just a very
freak accident. It could never, ever be replicated again. It was just bad.
PINSKY: You would think the coroner would have something to say about that.
SCHACHER: And, that is completely different from the fact that she magically went underneath the car to fetch a lug nut.
PINSKY: Yes. That is what he is saying now.
TALLEY: Well, if he would have ever told me that story or if she would have ever told me that story, I would have called him on that right
away.
PINSKY: And, Allison, before I let you go, did he ever talk about money? Was he somebody that discusses money problems or was obsessed with
money, that sort of thing?
TALLEY: From day one. She was a very successful physician in Jackson. She actually had two practices. Very successful. Very good
reputation. Especially with young people. She is a very good mentor and just loved impact people`s lives and -- be it through medicine or through
things at church or through the arts.
She was just a very -- that was her passion. And, he immediately dove into her business even before they were married and got the books and
immediately told people that it was a failing business. There was no money in the practice. That is just not something you start talking about.
I agree with you. I want to thank you so much. I know this is not an easy thing to talk about but hope any justice will be brought to bear on
behalf of your friend. Thank you for joining us. We want to turn to the behavior bureau. I will start with you. Anybody else get the chill? When
she said she had a sudden instinct that something happened to her friend?
PINSKY: All right, Allison -- No. I agree with you. And, Allison, thank you so much. I know this is not an easy think to talk about. But,
hopefully, justice will be brought to bare on the behalf of your friend and thank you for joining us.
I want to turn to the behavioral bureau and asked you guys. I will start with you Emily. Emily did you get the chills when she said she had
sudden instinct that something had happened to her friend.
SCHACHER: Yes. I did.
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Absolutely. And when he talked about money, that was a big red flag for me. He had already been talking about
money before meeting her friend? That is not something you generally talk about with someone you are not that close with.
PINSKY: That is right. All right. And, then --
ROBERTS: That is a huge sign.
PINSKY: Huge sign. And, then also the lying. He told one person she died in a car accident. We heard this now. We heard another story about
the trunk knocking her, killing her? Why cannot the coroner come up with something to blow holes in that?
The hood -- We heard another story. The hood of the car came down and broke her neck. All right, Spirit, this guy is a liar. He is obsessed
with money. He is taking over the books of his wife`s thriving medical practice and said it was failing. All allegations, we do not know if any
of these is factual, but if you heard that story, how would you add it up?
SPIRIT CLANTON, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, it is just another example of the pain that can come to us when we over trust our loved ones. And, I
know that, that sounds harsh, but if we become blinded --
PINSKY: That is harsh.
CLANTON: -- But it is the reality. If we become blinded to who people are, it has the potential to literally kill us. We got to be
careful.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, this guy did not really seem to have a job. Yet he was in charge of the books. We just heard from her friend there, and he
was obsessed with money. He says he worked for the church as a fund-raiser and he says he was not sort of a profit guy. But, Wendy, what do you
think?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: OK. So. women are really afraid to investigate the man they love, because they want to believe the fantasy.
We all have this Cinderella rescue fantasy.
PINSKY: You know, Wendy, I think men do a certain amount of this too. None of us want to know of the horrible things --
CLANTON: Yes. Thank you. Black widows have reasons.
PINSKY: Yes. We do not want to know horrible things about the people we love.
WALSH: But, I think people do need to do background checks, especially if somebody new that they are dating and before they get all
bonded and attached. And then the psychological reigns become very tight for them. I think people really need to investigate who these people are
and what their past is.
PINSKY: All right. A very interesting story. We will keep an eye on it. Next up. Do you have any social media stuff?
SCHACHER: I do. Just a response with what everybody is saying. From Melissa, "Most abusive men are very charming to the outside world and a
monster behind closed doors. Two wise in tragic accident?" --
PINSKY: Look at this one, from Melissa. Put that back up, guys. She said, "If her husband wanted her to go into the car for a lug nut" --
SCHACHER: Get the shoe shine box out. I love it.
PINSKY: #Areyoukiddingme?
SCHACHER: That is probably Vanessa.
PINSKY: Is it Vanessa?
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: OK. It sounds like her. All right. Next up, a woman uses social mead to raise cash to. Get this, harvest sperm from her dead
fiance. Now, is that OK? Is it not? We will get into that later. Honey Boo Boo`s sister. She has had a lot to say about the sex offender. We got
into it with her. You are going to hear more tonight and we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: When Cameron Robinett walked into Stephanie Lucas` life, she saw stars. Just this past December, Cameron
popped the question. Cameron was looking for home for their new life in California when he was in a bad motorcycle accident. Though heart broken,
Stephanie was not ready to let go of their future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE LUCAS, CAMERON ROBINETT`S Fiancee: I did not know if that was possible and I did not know if it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Well, it was. With both sets of parents on board, Stephanie started to go Fun Me page to raise the $6,000
for the procedure. These unique procedures can be polarizing. Dr. Ali Borhan, a Phoenix Urologist, who says usually both parties give consent.
But, in cases like this with one person on life support, the patient`s parent can give permission and the sperm will stay healthy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Heather and Spirit. This is our most tweeted story of the day. This procedure that this doctor was talking
about involves harvesting sperm from Stephanie`s fiance who was declared brain dead after a motorcycle accident. She had a goal of raising $6,000
on a GoFundMe site for the procedure. She received over $7,000 in just one hour. And, Sam, it did not stop there, did not it?
SCHACHER: No. It did not, Dr. Drew. So just in seven days, now this Go Fund Me site raised over $13,600. Her title for the Go Fund Me page is,
quote, "A baby with may deceased Fiance." It had over 1,500 shares. But, I think we should note that this has created a lot of controversy. Critics
call it sad, a misguided attempted way to keep her fiance alive.
PINSKY: And, because she got more than just a sperm harvesting procedures, she is going to use that money for like the fertility treatment
and other things, right?
SCHACHER: Well, first she said that it would go to his family to when he said the funeral costs.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHAHCER: And, then any leftover money will help her for fertility treatment.
PINSKY: All right. Let us go to the panel. Spirit, what do you think about Stephanie`s plan?
CLANTON: You know, I think that it is just a heart-wrenching story, but I support it. I support it.
PINSKY: You think it is a good idea.
CLANTON: Both of the families are on board. Absolutely. Absolutely.
PINSKY: Heather, are with this?
CLANTON: You would never want to think. It is horrible.
MCDONALD: Well, if she was my daughter, I would really not want her to do this.
PINSKY: Why?
MCDONALD: Because I just think, she is almost stopping her life with the death of her fiance. Now, I know she probably cannot think of anything
else. And, I guess if my daughter was coming to me crying, "Please, mom. Support me in this."
But, I really just think it is like a huge mistake she is taking on, not only being a single mother but then this whole -- I mean -- it would be
very hard for another man to step in. Not only is he stepping in with another man`s child, but that she went through these lengths after her
fiance died to have his baby. I just think it is like would be an extremely hard thing to get over and to find another love.
PINSKY: All right. All right. So, they are split. Anahita, where do you come down on this?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think this is just so wrong, Dr. Drew, on every level.
PINSKY: It is wrong with a capital "W" like morally wrong or something? Why?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. With a capital "W."
PINSKY: Why?
SEDAGHATFAR: Because here is the thing. There is no evidence that this guy consented to this.
PINSKY: Yes, but both sets of families consented to it. Both parents did.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, it does not matter. I am not talking about the legality of it. Maybe that makes it legal but this is just so wrong. Just
because he wanted to have a child with her when they were married does not mean that he would have been OK with him having his sperm taken out of him
when he is dead --
PINSKY: Does the four parents --
CLANTON: So, what is going to happen? Is he going to come back and complain? Is he going to come back and sue her?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I mean -- It does not matter. We are not talking about the legality. But, why would any mom knowingly take the right of a
biological father to raise his child? I mean, I am not putting down single moms --
CLANTON: Because the biological grand parents --
SEDAGHATFAR: I love single mother for doing everything that they do to like support their kids and raise their kids. But study after study,
Dr. Drew, and you can and attest to this, proves that children just do better when they are raise by two parents in a two-parent households.
PINSKY: Well, but maybe she will get married and have another parent. Maybe she will give her a chance to develop that with his genetic material.
MCDONALD: But, I mean should this be included in that little pink stamp that you get on your driver is license? I will give my eyes, my
kidney and my sperm? I will give my ovaries? I am a pretty smart girl with good ovaries. I mean it is just like --
CLANTON: I do not think it counts as organ donation.
MCDONALD: But, I mean I am saying that it is kind of -- That is what I am saying, you know? I do believe, I knew of a case, a girl I went to
college with. Her husband was doing cancer treatment. So, before he did chemo, they took the sperm. And, they had an understanding that --
PINSKY: Sure. Sure. But, not with the expectations that he is going to die necessarily. The understanding is that --
MCDONALD: But, when he was dying, then they had the agreement. Yes, I will use this sperm and have these babies. And, he wanted it. His
parents wanted it.
PINSKY: He consented.
MCDONALD: Yes. I agree that he does not have any say.
PINSKY: All right. Sam, what do you got?
SCHACHER: Well, Heather brought up an interesting point. She is speaking the language of our viewers, because Stephanie tweeted in, "How is
this much different than donating organs?" That is a good question. I mean where do you stand on all this?
PINSKY: I actually am moderately in favor of what this woman is doing, Anahita. I think the problem -- I am going to bring it up to the
behavior bureau is that this may be sort of an attempt to divert grieving. Because it is an interesting -- A tweet came up a few seconds ago and I
hope you can all saw that.
We will put it up again where a woman said she had been through that. The family, the parents said I wish she were pregnant because then we would
have something that represents him. There it is, right there, from Torry.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, that is maybe not fair as she is saying, to the deceased. But it is something that is not unreasonable. And, then
probably the deceased would have been cool with it --
SEDAGHATFAR: How is it not unreasonable? Dr. Drew, as a physician, how could you take that position?
PINSKY: I can take it --
SEDAGHATFAR: How could you say that?
PINSKY: I can say it because it is the wishes of the people that have certain power of attorneys, do they not, in this case. It is a viable
technology. It makes certain people happy without harming others. I agree with you. The two parents is an important piece.
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree that it is harming others, though.
PINSKY: A dead person?
SEDAGHATFAR: She have $6,000 to pay for the procedure. How can she fund and raise this child --
CLANTON: I totally disagree. You know, I totally disagree. You know what? Because she clearly has the support of both families.
SCHACHER: Right.
CLANTON: I think that this child is going to be raised in an extremely loving environment. Finance does not talk about support and love
and emotional connection.
SEDAGHATFAR: Unfortunately, that is the reality of raising children these days.
CLANTON: Clearly they cannot afford it but that is a different story. You know what? But, that is only one part of it. It is a lot more than
money that it takes to raise a child --
SEDAGHATFAR: It is the main part of it.
PINSKY: Are you making the case? Are you saying that poor people should not have children or not be allowed to have children?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I am not saying that. I am not saying that. Dr. Drew, that is not what I am saying.
PINSKY: OK.
SEDAGHATFAR: Do not misconstrue. What I am saying is you have to make a wise decision. I think part of being a parent, you have to take
into consideration that all the love in the world is not going to pay the bills. She is 22 years old.
CLANTON: So, tell that child with divorced parents of the world.
PINSKY: Hold on, guys.
SCHACHER: I have a lot of tweets, Dr. Drew. But, guess what? They are split down the middle. I see people in favor of it. I see people
thinking it is wrong with a capital "W" with exclamation mark, like that stuff
PINSKY: All right. I will tell you what? We will get more than moral argument as we get this. But, Anahita, I am glad you have your
supporters. But, let us take a poll. We are going to put up a poll on our Facebook page. Do you think this woman should be able to collect her dead
fiance`s sperm? Or should anyone be allowed to do so? So, take the poll again on our Facebook page.
And, later, the drama surrounding Mama June`s family. We are going to get into it again, tonight. It has made international news. Anna, Honey
Boo Boo`s older sister what she said on this show and you will hear more, tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW (voice-over): A woman is controversial decision after her fiance dies in a motorcycle crash. She turns to social media to raise
money to get sperm from his body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUCAS: Today was so hard. We went to the funeral home to pick up an urn. Then to the accident site, then to Cameron`s to go through his things
and pick out what we wanted to keep. We were about to leave and Cameron`s mom said one more look.
Buried in Kevin`s laundry was a jersey. A Seahawk Jersey in size 0-3 months. Something we bought last Christmas for our future baby. Our jaws
dropped. And then we all smiled and looked up to the heavens to say. We hear you, Cameron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our Behavior bureau, Wendy, Karamo, and Emily. Stephanie Lucas has raised nearly $14,000 now on a GoFundMe
site. At least $6,000 will be spent on a procedure to potentially extract sperm from her fiance. He had been declared death after a motorcycle
accident. Stephanie says that although she lost her fiance, she did not want to lose, quote, "Her future family." So, Sam, my question to you is,
would you do this?
SCHACHER: In a heartbeat. I did not have to think about it. If my husband was on his death bed, even when he was my fiance, because we
planned for a family for quite some time, I would not think twice. But, I am also in my early 30`s. So, my biological clock is ticking. But,
perhaps, even if I met him at 25, I would think the same way.
PINSKY: And, so is part of that the fact that as a pairing, you really want to reintroduce with the guy.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: That does not go away just because he is not there.
SCHACHER: I cannot imagine not having a child with him.
PINSKY: And, the Facebook, how is that going?
SCHACHER: Oh my Gosh! We have a thousand comments on our Facebook. And, there are as many supporters as there are opponents. Both, sides very
vocal.
From Mary, she supports Stephanie. She writes, quote, "They loved and loved one another. She wants a child from their love to live on
absolutely. And, not anyone`s business, anyway. God bless."
And, then there is Debby. She could disagree more. She writes, quote, "Hell no. That is just like rape. You will be violating a corpse.
That is just sick in my opinion."
PINSKY: I got one guy. OK. You take sperm from the deceased, but the guy should have the authorization. So, a lot of people uncomfortable
with the fact that this gentleman did not specifically authorized this. Karamo, how do you feel about this?
BROWN: I agree with what you just said, Dr. Drew. I do not think this is right in all. I think it is creepy. I think it is weird. This
guy, we do not have any evidence to say that this guy suggested that he wanted to have a baby with this woman. A jersey giving this woman a sign?
I am sorry. This woman is grieving and she is looking for anything she can to help support her.
PINSKY: All right. I am not -- I think you may be right. Wendy, what do you say?
WALSH: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, from an evolutionary psychology perspective, whoever dies with the most grandchildren wins.
PINSKY: Yes, that is true.
WALSH: This is the chance to help him win. And, really, who owns those little swimmers, Dr. Drew? Does he really own them? Or are they
temporarily in his gonads? And, now they are actually owned by the DNA by the four grandparents. Let us think about it. And, also from a
psychological perspective, what is wrong with wanting to bring her fiance back to life in some way.
PINSKY: Well, Wendy. Come on now.
WALSH: That is a complicated grieving.
PINSKY: Emily, you shuddered when Wendy said that. Part of that is a dysfunctional grieving. But even though I support her ability to do it, it
still bothers me a little bit.
WALSH: Well, why do you call it dysfunctional grieving? Maybe it is just love.
ROBERTS: Well, it has been only 11 days. It has been only 11 days. She has not had a chance to sit with her thoughts and emotions. You are
not supposed to make decisions that involved another person`s life --
PINSKY: Agree.
ROBERTS: Or the potential having a child within the first 11 days.
WALSH: Who makes those rules? Why cannot it just be love?
PINSKY: Wendy. Come on now.
WALSH: No. Seriously.
ROBERTS: You know about this. On a neurological perspective, you cannot grieve that quickly. It is impossible.
WALSH: Of course. Making a decision in the middle of grieving to do the one thing that alleviates grieving, create life.
PINSKY: Or diverts it or sort of leapfrogs over. You got something, Sam?
SCHACHER: I have a tweet, actually. You said exactly what they did. This is from Obraham Lincoln. She tweeted, "She is diverting her mourning.
This is a huge mistake that she will regret, raising a child on her own."
PINSKY: And, then the child becomes responsible for the ghost of the dad. And, Karamo, somebody said that they felt this was like raping a dead
man. Was that you or someone online or something?
BROWN: Yes. That was someone online. But, I feel similar to that. But, you know, I just want to bring up about these children. None of us
are thinking about what these children will go through when they are explaining how they were conceived.
When I talked about when I was conceived, I feel proud of that story. My parents were in love, they were married. How do you as a child say to
their friends that my father was violated by my mother and his sperm was taken while my father was laying dead in the ground. That is something
psychologically wrong with that.
PINSKY: I agree with you Karamo. It does not go through.
WALSH: How about all the test tube babies out there?
PINSKY: And, Wendy spins it her way. It kind of depends on how you spins. Let us go to the poll was. The poll was do you think a woman
should be able to collect a dead man`s sperm?
And, the critics agree. No, it is nearly split even. 58 percent however do say yes. 42 percent say no. And, we know that most of the
people that vote -- tend to vote on our Facebook page are women. So, that means that women are in favor of this.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: That is why you reaction was just, I will do it.
SCHACHER: Yes. I did not even have to think twice about it.
PINSKY: All right. Here is what I am going to do next. I want to bring in -- we have some interview, I was doing with Honey Boo Boo`s sister
from yesterday. Plus, a whole part of the interview you did not see, we did in out after show that aired on Facebook. We are going to show you
some of that. We will get into her side of the story and much more, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Who was the first person you told about your secret of the abuse?
CARDWELL: My third grade teacher.
PINSKY: And, how come you chose her?
CARDWELL: We were all just sitting there. I was being a little teacher`s pet. I was trying to get in good with the teacher. And, we were
all just sitting there talking about things. One of my friends was talking to her about her family. And, then I accidentally slipped out of my mouth.
And, the teacher is like, "Oh, God, what did you just say?" And, I was like, "nothing, nothing, nothing."
She said repeat what you have to say, what you just said. And, I was like, I repeated it and she took me to the counselor`s office and went to
the principal`s office. And, my grand parents got called, then cops got called and downhill from there.
PINSKY: Have you had treatment for all this?
CARDWELL: I went to -- I didn`t have like counseling treatment, not now, not recently. But when I was little I did go to a counselor for about
three or four years.
PINSKY: OK.
CARDWELL: And, then I went to a place to get everything checked out and everything looked at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Wendy, and Heather. Anna Cardwell is Honey Boo Boo`s older sister. She is speaking out about all the drama in
her family and she is demanding an apology from Mama June because the mother`s, Mama June`s ex-boyfriend, Mark McDaniel, was sentenced to ten
years in prison for molesting Anna. And, now that guy allegedly is hanging out with Mama June.
And, here is what Anna said about the relationship with Anna`s daughter, the granddaughter. Now, this is what you are about to see. You
will see more of this, tonight. This is from our Facebook Aftershow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA CARDWELL, HONEY BOO BOO`S OLDER SISTER: When she was born, she keeps telling everyone. She kept saying, she raised her, he never raised
her. And it was free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Heather, how do you react to this story?
MCDONALD: I mean it is so depressing. It is so sad. And, the Mama June is awful. She is awful. And, not only would she be an awful person
if she was not on T.V., but when are these stupid reality show people going to realize, they have been given a gift. They are the start of a
television show when they clearly do not deserve to be. They have nothing interesting about them.
And listen, pay your taxes. Do not commit fraud and do not hang out with convicted child molesters who abused your children because they are
giving you a little attention. How disgusting are you? She is horrible. Horrible.
PINSKY: And, Anna dropped a bit of a bombshell when talking about her sister whom she calls pumpkin. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDWELL: I was hurt then that Mama never believes me. Momma does not know who pumpkin`s dad is. And pumpkin thinks it is Mark, which hurts
my feelings because momma was making her believe that someone that did this to me is her father.
Now, Pumpkin hates me for it. But, you know, I said I do not really care, because, you know, Pumpkin always -- me and Pumpkin has never been
that close until actually Caitlin was born. But, now with her cussing me out saying screw you, F-you. You know, all this stuff like that. I do not
recollect, I am just done with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Wendy, that comment made international news, because I guess people did not understand that June believed that pumpkin`s father
was the sex offender and that is why she allowed him to come around. But, purely speculating. We do not know what is real and what is not here in
any of this. But, if that is true, are you surprised? And, does this not tell us something about June?
WALSH: Sadly, Dr. Drew, if it were true, I would not be surprised. This woman was clearly having a relationship with him I am assume she was
having sexual events with him.
PINSKY: She thinks this is the daughter, the result of that.
WALSH: Pregnancy happens from sex and they were having sex, so it would not surprise me. But, this is an example of multigenerational
attachment injuries --
PINSKY: And trauma.
WALSH: There is trauma again and again each new generation. Now the sibling rivalry, the sibling rivalries they are having as a result of it.
I just feel -- My heart breaks for this whole family, actually. And I think the T.V. business, trying to help them perhaps, and exploit them at
the same time, may have made things worse.
PINSKY: And, Sam you have some Facebook questions.
SCHACHER: I do. I have some questions. And, I think Anahita, you can answer this. So, this is on our Facebook page. So , Molly write, "The
convicted registered sex offender is violating the law by being around children. Are there any laws June is violating by bringing him around her
youngest child?"
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I do not think the mom is violating any laws and I do not think that he is either, because, apparently, the terms of his
release did not prohibit him from being around any kids. He just could not be around Anna.
But, clearly, it is so stupid of this mother. What mother would date a convicted child molester? Much less the one that molested her own child.
She is clearly not a fit mother. I think all of her children need to be taken away from her.
PINSKY: Sam, I was reading a Perez Hilton and he was talking about that comment that we just heard Anna made. His reaction was what? Like
what? June was having sex with so many men she did not who know the father was? And, now pumpkin, this is her dad? Now pumpkin is cussing out poor
Anna who is trying to raise her own kid?
SCHACHER: And, there are allegations too that Pumpkin was in bed. She was very young. So, perhaps --
PINSKY: Allegations. Let us emphasize that these are all allegations.
SCHACHER: Allegations that she was in bed while it happened. So, perhaps she did not realize it. Was not aware of it.
PINSKY: All right. There is more of this to come. More of the Mama June family drama. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDWELL: Do I want to hear mama`s side of the story which will help clear it up more. I want to hear her side. Honestly. That is what I want
to hear. She keeps saying she will talk to different people. And people, hey, say your side. I do not want to say my side. Say it, ma. I want to
hear what come out of your mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Wendy, and Heather. We are talking about Anna Cardwell. She is Honey Boo Boo`s older sister. She is talking
about the abuse that she has suffered. She is asking for an apology from Mama June told us -
Let me just finish this thought. She told us how she, how hurt she is, that Mama June is dating the man who is convicted of having molested
her, who is convicted of having done so. And, Mama June seems to be in denial about it. And, she keeps denying it at least. She keeps denying
that this is the case when she is around him.
And, then yet we hear from Anna that this is maybe Pumpkin`s father and that is why he is around and pumpkin cannot be around. A lot of
craziness. The question is, and Wendy you started reacting to this. Is an apology from Mama June really going to change anything?
WALSH: I think it will for this reason. This is a child who wants to be seen by her mother. She wants to be understood by her mother. The big
disconnect between Mama June and the suffering of her daughter is very evident. She is unable to have this empathetic connection. So, by
apologizing to her daughter, there can be a lot of healing that could take place, because the daughter can finally be seen.
PINSKY: Heather, you understand what Wendy is talking about here?
MCDONALD: No. All of this is extremely sad. But, it is just someone that is not, you know, a psychiatrist, OK?
PINSKY: What? Mama June, you mean?
MCDONALD: I am just saying me. When this show started, we all thought, come on. Come on, they were gross, typical southern white trash
people. OK? But, everybody said, oh but they are really a sweet family. She is really is a good mom. Yes, she has four different fathers for her
kids but it is kind of sweet.
And, it has all been proven that they are those -- she is that gross person. She is an awful mother that brought gross people around her kids.
That went back to the disgusting perpetrator after, will not admit her faults. And, it has all been proven. And, we give these people T.V.
shows. We watched them. It will be very hard to go into the world, being famous, and now having this whole awful thing being revealed.
PINSKY: And, Sam, are there other Facebook comments?
SCHACHER: We have so many Facebook comments, Dr. Drew. I thought this one was interesting from Didi. She writes, "I would say apologize and
then prove you are sorry. Cut all contacts with the sex offender, lock, stock and barrel. Pedophiles do not just up and quit their offending
habits. Otherwise, their recidivism rates would not be at 75 percent. Alana is at risk around this nut job and one child from the family is
suffering at his hands is one child too many.
PINSKY: Anahita, what about giving this man a chance being treated, maybe he was treated, may be if he is properly supervised, he is going to
be safe for him to be around his daughter. We do not know if that is true or not, but what do you say?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I mean I am not saying that people can be rehabilitated but we do not know that that is true. He just got out of
jail. And, what makes matters worst here is that he was convicted of molesting his own daughter. It is not just some stranger or something he
did many years and now he is rehabilitated.
I think it changes the complexion of the story when the guy you are dating was convicted of molesting your own daughter. And I also, Dr. Drew,
I just think this is so sad all around. And, she is so strong to be able to talk about this the way --
PINSKY: Yes. She was delightful. She was really delightful. But do not be mistaken. She has to be suffering quite a bit. And, Heather, you
have a look like, sort of disgust in your face.
MCDONALD: I just think it is so sad when a child is hurting and their mother does not believe them. And, then to go back to the guy when you
originally said I do not believe you to the daughter. And, then have any kind of relation with him. Even if they are not sleeping together and they
just happen to be walking down the street together. Why is she walking down the street with him?
PINSKY: What is that Wendy?
WALSH: She should be a unified front with her children against this man, because he is the one who hurt her family. And, the fact that she
cannot take the side of her kids is the thing that is so damaging.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, she still does not see that. I mean this has been front page news for how many days?
PINSKY: We are going to have to leave it right there. I am sure it will be picked up again tomorrow. Thank you, panel. Thank you, Sam. Good
evening.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
PINSKY: And, we want to take a moment to give thanks to our veterans on this Veterans Day. We leave you tonight with some scenes from earlier
today.
END
