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Comet Landing; ISIS Leader Emerges on Audiotape; Decision in Michael Brown Case Nears

Aired November 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

For three months, the U.S. and its coalition forces have been dropping bombs on ISIS militants, but, today, ISIS has released this video claiming it found a way to protect its members from those airstrikes. And you are looking at it, this intricate network of tunnels here in the Iraqi province of Anbar.

And on the very same day ISIS comes out with this bizarre show-and- tell, you have the leader emerging with this chilling message days after even his own fate was questioned. He's released this audio recording essentially daring the United States to send in ground troops and ridiculing the U.S.-led coalition.

In it, he uses words, calling the U.S. terrified, weak, powerless and urges ISIS militants to unleash a -- quote -- "volcano of jihad."

Fareed Zakaria joins me now, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

And just first your first impressions when you are hearing this message from al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS, saying weak, powerless, failed and mentioning -- going as far as mentioning the additional 1,500 troops the president announced the other day.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: This is an old tactic. Al Qaeda used to do it all the time.

They always want -- there's a lot of bluster and braggadocio. But I also think it's important to remember something I have often said. They view -- they are trying to set a bait. They want the United States more involved. It helps them recruit.

Remember, ISIS has gone from nothing to becoming the replacement for al Qaeda, the most well-known jihadi organization in the world. How? By taking on the 800-pound gorilla of the world, the United States of America.

BALDWIN: Exactly what -- in reading the comments, I wondered if this was sort of a dare all this from Baghdadi to the United States. And so it sounds like you agree that, yes, it would be. but how exactly then would that then create recruitment for wannabe jihadis?

ZAKARIA: Because if you are one of the many jihadi organizations or many of the radical Sunni organizations in Syria that is sort of struggling for market share and adherents, that's one thing.

If you become the organization that battles the United States, the crusaders, the West, if you become the face of the radical Islam that is up against this new crusade, well, now, all of a sudden, you are the place everyone wants to come to. You're the place everyone wants to send money to. There's a lot of this that has to do with fund- raising.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How about that?

So, with regard to the wars both in Iraq and Syria, we heard from a Republican senator earlier in the week, Rand Paul, calling the war illegal and then we just heard from high-ranking Democrat Tim Kaine of Virginia essentially echoing the same thing yesterday on a panel that our own Jim Sciutto moderated yesterday.

Now what? Because it seems like this issue is definitely it's unifying, but it's divisive as far as members of Congress go. So, where does this move?

ZAKARIA: It won't have any practical effect, because these kind of congressional complaints about the executive taking over the war- making function and foreign policy making function have existed for a long time. The executive always wins.

BALDWIN: So, it's just complaints. And that's all it is?

ZAKARIA: Look, the president gets to make foreign policy which includes the waging of these limited interventions.

We haven't declared war since Pearl Harbor. It's always been a kind of executive action that when the executive wants he gets Congress to approve. But what you're pointing out I think which is true, which is there are two very different political figures, and it shows you that the American public does not want a sustained, protracted, intense American military involvement in the Middle East. They view it as a hellhole. They want to be out of there.

So, that's going to be -- the bigger problem is that than the fact that you have congressmen saying this is illegal or the president doesn't have authority to do this.

BALDWIN: OK. Just finally, what about Bashar al-Assad and his fate? Because the notion of President Obama and the United States wanting him out seems, that just seems a little far-fetched.

ZAKARIA: I think I would put it this way. It's on the back burner now. The goal is to defeat and destroy ISIS. Destroying ISIS itself is a reach at this point. Degrading it might be the best we can do. But then to go on from that and also deal with Assad in Syria where we don't really have very strong ground forces, I would say it's on the back burner.

BALDWIN: OK. Thank you. Fareed Zakaria, I appreciate it very much. We're getting some breaking news of Syria, speaking of, into CNN right

now, this new round of U.S. airstrikes inside of Syria against the al Qaeda cell the Khorasan group.

Let's go straight to the Pentagon to Barbara Starr with a little bit more on what is happening.

Barbara, what do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Brooke.

CNN has just learned that the U.S. military has just concluded a third round of airstrikes against the so-called Khorasan group in Syria. Look, this is a group of top al Qaeda operatives that moved into Syria, many from Pakistan a few years ago. Very dangerous. Very deadly. The U.S. has already taken two swipes at them. Now a third round of airstrikes.

We're told it was a small number of strikes. The Khorasan has basically been hiding out in Northern Syria. We're told that at least one of the airstrikes that just concluded was indeed going after a top Khorasan operative. No names yet are being given out about who they might have been going after.

But you will remember the first night back in September, Tomahawk missiles launched against the Khorasan. A couple of weeks ago, more airstrikes against top Khorasan leaders. They want to get these guys. They believe that they are plotting to attack the United States.

This is a group that's capable of making bombs and explosives that can potentially, potentially get past airport security screening measures, so the Khorasan, even as the war against ISIS has gotten our attention, getting the Khorasan group inside Syria, these people that can make these bombs, has been a big priority for the U.S. military. And now we know -- it's not officially announced, but we have confirmed a third round concluded a short time ago.

Still, the U.S. military trying to figure out exactly how successful they were -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Barbara Starr, thank you very much. Huge move as far as additional intelligence. There had been a dearth of intelligence really in Syria now and this shows the progress, the bomb makers we reported last week and now this. Thank you very much at the Pentagon.

Let's talk about what's happening in this very provocative move with Russia, because suddenly you have Moscow saying it expand reconnaissance flights overseas, sending long-range bombers like this over the Caribbean and over the Gulf of Mexico. This is in response, according to Russia, to heightened tensions with the West over Ukraine.

This is the quote from Russia's defense minister, saying this: "In the current situation, we have to maintain a military presence in the Western Atlantic and Eastern Pacific, as well as the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico." Let's go to Moscow to our correspondent there, Matthew Chance.

And we know the Russians -- have the Russians said how close the U.S. -- how close they want to fly these planes to the U.S.? We're talking Caribbean and Atlantic or Gulf of Mexico. That's awful close.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and also Alaska as well. They have got bases in the Arctic, these huge Soviet era bombers will be taking off from. They get refueled on the way if necessary and they will be traveling very close, I expect, to U.S. airspace, but I think being very careful not to enter U.S. airspace. That's the important thing about these flights.

They're in international airspace largely or they should be at least. So they are perfectly legal and don't pose any particular threat to U.S.. Having said that, Brooke, they do pose a potential threat to civilian aircraft in the area because oftentimes these Russian military planes, they choose to fly with their transponders turned off to make them more kind of stealthy. I suppose they don't liaise with air traffic control.

They don't file flight plans. So in the past, there's been very near misses over Europe. The potential is that that could also happen if they really upped these flights in the United States or in aircraft coming from the United States as well.

BALDWIN: I think we have to talk bigger picture, right, with those sanctions. We know the Russians are smarting over the economic sanctions and not that they're feeling them. They really are truly beginning to hurt.

We looked and we looked into the ruble. It has lost nearly a full one-fourth of its value the last three months. That makes it the worst performing currency as monitored by Bloomberg News. Inflation over 8 percent. We would go be going crazy obviously if that happened here. Economic growth has slowed to a crawl, 0.7 percent in the third quarter with predictions of a full-blown recession.

Is this Vladimir Putin sort of lashing out about the disaster, this economic disaster triggered by his misadventure in Ukraine?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, look, the point about these flights, I think, is that they show that despite the sanctions, despite the economic impact they are having on Russia, you know, they don't seem to be doing anything to change Vladimir Putin's policy.

We're seeing these flights. We are also seeing perhaps much more seriously a dramatic escalation of what many people believe to be, including NATO, Russian support for the pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. There's been a truce there enforced since early September. That is on the cusp of breaking down into a full-scale conflict as well.

NATO and the West, the U.S. believes that Russia is behind that. Despite these sanctions which are undoubtedly having an impact on Russia's economy, they don't seem to be having any impact on Russia's foreign policy and I think that's the key point.

BALDWIN: Matthew Chance, thank you.

So the mission was to land a robot on a comet, a comet traveling some 34,000 miles an hour. And with that, mission accomplished. The question now, can that robot actually hang onto that comet and can they conduct those experiments that's been some 10 years in the making? We will ask those important questions.

And the threatening letter the FBI sent to Dr. Martin Luther King nearly 50 years ago, the so-called suicide letter, essentially saying kill yourself or you will regret it. We have the historian who just discovered this letter. She will join me later this hour to explain why it was sent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Space geeks, unite.

Let me talk about what happened in the past 24 hours that has just totally blown me away here because for the very first time this robot landed on a comet and today we have got new pictures from it.

I know some of it actually if you look at it, you're like, what's the big deal? It's kind of unremarkable, right? But scientists are pointing out that what you're seeing actually in the foreground of the photo you see behind me is part of a robot built today beside a piece of nature that existed before the dinosaurs, like 4.6 billion years before the dinosaurs. And there they are there side by side.

Fist-pumps and all from the European Space Agency. Love this. All of this because the work of the people you see here, this is the Rosetta mission from the European Space Agency, but the thing is, not everything went totally as planned.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen has more on what went wrong after so much did go right -- Fred.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's some amazing images that the Philae lander from the European Space Agency has beamed back to Earth from the comet 67P.

Even the scientists here in Darmstadt in Germany say they were surprised by what they have seen so far. They thought the surface of the comet would be mostly dusty and that the lander when it lands on it might even sink in to a point where maybe it wouldn't be able to transmit signals back to Earth.

That did not happen by any stretch of the imagination. Instead, the photos that we're seeing from there appear to show a very rocky surface, a very rough surface, even though at this point in time it's unclear whether it's really rocks that we're looking at or whether it's some sort of other material potentially ice with some sort of maybe metallic dust in it. This landing did not go smoothly by any stretch of the imagination.

What happened was that the lander came down slowly and as it touched for the first time, it bounced because a harpoon system didn't fire. It then bounced up. That alone took about two hours because we are in space. There's very little gravity. It then hit the ground again, bounced back up again for another seven minutes and then came to a standstill and they believe at this point in time that it's standing sort of like this with two feet on the ground and one foot in the air.

Now, that means there are certain limitations as to what they can do but they say, by all accounts, all systems are go at this point. There's one other problem, however. And that is that the location where it is standing right now, there's very little sunlight that gets to this area and right now what's going on is the lander is on battery power.

However, that battery is going to run out very soon and it needs sun to recharge its batteries. Otherwise the mission could be over very quickly or at least could be very limited.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Darmstadt, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much.

Coming up, no decision yet on the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, but that may not be the case actually for very much longer. We know that today the man who performed the second private independent autopsy on Michael Brown, he testified before this grand jury. Will his opinions sway the panel? That's coming up.

Also ahead, should a sitting governor be allowed to pardon his own son? This is happening in Arkansas. We will talk about this case coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just a short time ago, this new witness testified in the case of an unarmed teenager who was shot and killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri.

That witness is nationally renowned, pathologist Michael Baden. He was hired by Michael Brown's family to perform the second independent autopsy on their son. We have learned that a grand juror is the one who actually asked who hear from Dr. Baden and the prosecutor then allowed for that. Is it a fair move?

The nation is waiting to see. The grand jury is expected to decide this month whether officer Darren Wilson will be indicted in Brown's death.

Jason Carroll has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dr. Michael Baden's testimony isn't the only forensic account of Michael Brown's death grand jurors will hear. They will take into account the official report completed by the Saint Louis County medical examiner.

Each report reached some similar results. Both concluded Brown was shot at least six times. Both show Brown had a gunshot wound to his right hand. But where the reports differ is key and how it's interpreted could make a huge difference in the case.

The county report states materials were found on Michael Brown's hand -- quote -- "consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm," in other words, probable gun residue on Brown's hand.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: The significance of that wound is great.

CARROLL: Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky is a professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

KOBILINSKY: So, for this testing, I would say it's very consistent with gunshot residue and supports the contention of Darren Wilson that there was a struggle for the gun, very close-in shot.

CARROLL: Ferguson's police chief told CNN in August officer Wilson was hurt during a struggle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer was taken to the hospital and treated for a swollen face. That's pretty much all I know.

CARROLL (on camera): Swollen face. And did you see the officer's face?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not.

CARROLL (voice-over): But others disagree. One witness, Dorian Johnson, told CNN Brown did struggle, not for officer's Wilson gun, he says, but to get away from him.

DORIAN JOHNSON, WITNESS: The officer then reached out and he grabbed his arm to pull him into the car, so now it was like the officer is pulling him inside the car and he's trying to pull away, and at no time did the officer say that he was going to do anything until he pulled out his weapon. His weapon was drawn. And he said, I will shoot you or I'm going to shoot. And in the same moment, the first shot went off.

CARROLL: And as for the final moments, whether Brown had his hands up to surrender or whether he was charging at officer Wilson, there are conflicting eyewitness accounts that the grand jury will have to consider. Like the forensic evidence in this case, much is up for interpretation.

KOBILINSKY: No question about it, you have got to interpret it. And some people will interpret it differently than others. And that's why this is an adversarial system. This is an art. It's not just a science.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Jason Carroll, thank you very much.

Coming up, this is a story a lot of people are talking about. This is about the outgoing governor of Arkansas just weeks before leaving office about to pardon a man for a felony drug conviction. The twist, though, this man, the governor's son. Is this fair? Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Bottom of the hour just about. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The outgoing governor of Arkansas making some news over a pardon he's about to make. It's for his own son, who was convicted of a felony drug charge.

Just to set up the piece, this is Elicia Dover from our affiliate KATV.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELICIA DOVER, KATV REPORTER (voice-over): In his final months as governor, Mike Beebe says she plans to pardon his son from a felony drug charge.

GOV. MIKE BEEBE (D), ARKANSAS: He was embarrassed. He's still embarrassed. And, frankly, I was embarrassed and his mother was embarrassed. It's all of the families that go through that. It's tough on the families. But the kids -- hopefully, the kids learn.

DOVER: Beebe's son, Kyle, now 34, says he has learned from his criminal past. In his pardon plea, Kyle Beebe wrote a letter to his father asking for a pardon. "Mr. Governor, I'm asking for a second chance at life. I'm asking for a second chance to be the man I know I can be," also writing: "I'm asking for a chance to be a better son to my parents and prove to them that I am the person they raised me to be."

BEEBE: Well, he's grown up a lot. You know, kids when they're young do stupid stuff. He was no different, broke his mother's heart.

DOVER: According to reports, in 2003, Kyle Beebe was charged in White County with felony possession of marijuana and intent to sell. Then Attorney General Beebe said -- quote -- "He needs to be treated like everybody else. No better. No worse."

And that's exactly what Beebe says he's doing with the pardon.

BEEBE: If they straighten up to get their life back on track and have a second chance, and so this is no different. It's just -- it's different because it's my son. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with our attorney here, Darren Kavinoky.

And, Darren, let's just -- you heard the governor say this has broken his wife's heart. Take the family's personal struggles out of this. Just legally speaking, we know that the state parole board -- this is according to our affiliate in Arkansas -- did recommend that Governor Beebe's son be pardoned. Kyle Beebe says he's changed. It's been 11 years. He's had no other offenses. Do you see this as special treatment?

DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it doesn't necessarily mean special treatment.