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ISIS Video Shows Beheaded American; Ferguson Grand Jury Will Soon Announce Indictment Decision; Will Bill Cosby Break His Silence?; Ukraine Expects Russia Attack "Soon"; Will Ukraine-Russia Fighting Ignite Again?; Feds Raid NFL Locker Rooms; Should Everyone Go to College?

Aired November 16, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

This hour, we are fast-forwarding to the week ahead. We'll take a look at the stories you're going to be talking about all this week.

Let's get begin with our five questions for the week ahead.

Question number one, a new video from ISIS. The group has beheaded another American, Peter Kassig. But this ISIS video is different from the others we've seen. Will those differences give the intelligence community new help in their fight against this terror group?

Question number two, can doctors save a fellow surgeon stricken with Ebola? Dr. Martin Salia is in extremely critical condition right now in Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. He began treatment there yesterday after arriving from treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone.

Question number three, is this the week that Ferguson, Missouri, sees protests erupt once again? Some who live there and work there are preparing for the worst-case scenario. Any day now, a grand jury decision will be handed down on whether or not to indict the police officer who fatally shot 18-year-old Michael Brown this summer. Police and the Missouri National Guard are standing by.

Question number four, will Bill Cosby break his silence this week about the sexual assault allegations just days after the comedian maintained complete silence when asked about it in an interview with NPR? His lawyer has now released a statement calling those allegations decade old and discredited. Should Cosby respond? We'll debate that coming up.

And question number five, could the simmering conflict in Ukraine boil over again? Fresh from the G-20 summit, Russia's top leadership has some decisions to make. That is after Western officials, including President Obama, made it very clear they're against the course Russia is taking in Ukraine, going so far as to call it a threat to the world. Russia continues to deny its military involvement in separatist

fighting on the Ukraine border.

Let's get more now as we begin with our top story, the death of an American Peter Kassig at the hands of ISIS. Just 26 years old.

A short time ago, the Kassig family issued a statement that reads in part, "We are heartbroken to learn our son, Abdul-Rahman Peter Kassig, has lost his life as a result of his love for the Syrian people and his desire to ease their suffering. Our heart goes out to the families of the Syrians who lost their lives along with our son."

The family also released an audio clip of Kassig explaining in an interview before he was captured why he was there, why he wanted to help the Syrian people so much.

Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PETER KASSIG: You know, we have a chance here to make up for a lot of wrong that we did to this part of the world. We stepped in in the right way. If we just as a country did what other people helped me to do in that hospital, how much did I impact a political situation inside Syria? How much did I impact the political situation back home? None.

But what I did do is that over a period of time, like in that hospital, I was able to share a little bit of hope and comfort with some people. They were able to teach any something about themselves that I wouldn't have known otherwise. And we each were given an opportunity to look at the conflict in a different way.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HARLOW: Remember, this is a young man who went over there to help other people and try to help save lives.

Let's bring in Bob Baer, former CIA operative.

Bob, I know you watched this video as did I. It's incredibly gruesome. It is different than other videos is released after beheadings. What does it tell us?

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: I think, you know, it's premature, of course, to say definitely what this means. But I think this group is on the run. I think our overhead coverage of Syria is very good and they're not going to go out in the desert and set these things up with multiple cameras, take their time.

We do have special operators in the area who are ready to move when we find the hostage takers and the hostages. I think they know this, and they're moving around and that's why you see the quality isn't the same. And I think we're looking at a group that is truly under a threat from the air, at least. HARLOW: When you watch this video, what you don't see at the end, as

we've seen in other videos, is the threat of another hostage, to take the life of another hostage. It breaks that pattern. What does that tell you?

BAER: I think -- I mean, these people are realistic in a certain sense, and in killing these -- executing these people isn't getting them anything. It's getting world condemnation. It's not helping them move on the battlefield. They're running out of hostages as well.

They have an American woman. I doubt they're going to execute her. They're not getting the result they want, and the leadership of this group is not completely irrational, and I think they've -- this is maybe one reason for the change.

HARLOW: We also hear audio, but we do not see images or video of the ISIS leader al Baghdadi. Does that tell you anything about whether or not he was harmed potentially in the coalition air strikes a week ago?

BAER: I don't think he was harmed. It looks like a signature strike. They saw a convoy crossing the desert. A lot of guards, maybe Baghdadi was in it. They hit it. But there was echoes afterwards that he'd been killed, and something they would pick up in telephone intercepts and the rest of it.

I don't think he moves either. I mean, clearly, he's not on the telephone. He's not on e-mail or the rest of it. He's hiding in some buildings somewhere with a couple of guards. He's a very hard target to hit.

And in the absence of any information, I think he's probably still alive.

HARLOW: All right. Bob Baer, appreciate you coming in to talk about this. It is incredibly, incredibly tragic to see another life lost as a result of this. Bob, thank you.

Well, also this story we're following closely, a surgeon who treated Ebola patients in Sierra Leone is now fighting his own life in Nebraska. The doctor treating Martin Salia says that he is critically ill, described it as an hour by hour situation. Salia is a legal permanent resident of the United States. He split his time living with his family in Maryland and then helping people in his native country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARTIN SALIA, EBOLA PATIENT: I knew it wasn't going to be rosy. I took this job not because I want to, but I finally believe it was a calling and I go where they tell me to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: A calling. The U.S. says it will now begin screening travelers from Mali for

signs of Ebola. This comes after a number of Ebola cases were confirmed in the African nation of Mali in recent days.

No one knows what will happen in Ferguson, Missouri, this week. We're all watching. We do know what some people in the town want to see. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a system that's in place. You created the system. You enforce the system every day. We're saying, oh, that guy should be included in the system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We will see if there is an indictment of Officer Darren Wilson or not. What will happen? We're going to talk to an expert to see what he thinks next.

Also this, leaders in Ukraine say they're ready for total war with Russia. How close are really these two nations to an even more bloody conflict? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, the governor of Missouri says he will send the National Guard to Ferguson if he needs to to maintain calm there. He and other officials do hope that people remain peaceful when a grand jury decides whether or not to indict a Ferguson police officer for his role in the shooting death of a teenager, Michael Brown, back in August. That decision could come at any time.

In the meantime, an activist group has released a video online it says shows a cross section of the community affected by the death of 18- year-old Michael Brown.

Here's a small portion of what was released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not here to try to validate the justice system because there's a lot of changes that need to occur, but then the indictment of Darren Wilson is the first step of many that need to take place. But we got to get him indicted first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody's asking for Darren Wilson to be killed. Nobody's asking for him to be shot in the street. Nobody's asking for him to be strung up, like we have been for every decade of every century that we've been here. We're asking for him to be charged for the crime that he committed in front of witnesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. That coming from the group Ferguson Speaks.

Let's bring in Mark O'Mara, CNN legal analyst.

Thanks for being with us, Mark.

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: From what you've seen observing this case, we know -- we actually know some of what has happened in this grand jury in terms of what witnesses have testified. We know that Darren Wilson has spoken. Oftentimes defendants don't.

Do you have a gut feeling on this one? Or is it just far too hard to tell?

O'MARA: It's just hard to say. The frustrating thing is that there have been such varied snippets of information that have come out, it gives everyone grounds for speculation.

HARLOW: Right.

O'MARA: We just so have to wait until the global picture comes out. Thank God the grand jury seems to have taken their time. And even better that that, we're going to have the transcripts of what they've done so everyone can see every decision they made.

HARLOW: Because that's what they've been calling for on both sides is full, full transparency. So, you're right. This is a secret process while it's happening. But afterwards, the fact that we're going to be able to see those transcripts.

If Officer Darren Wilson is indicted, do you think he will be tried in that community?

O'MARA: It's going to be very tough to try Officer Wilson in that community because there is such a ground swell of emotions, one way or the other. And, you know, even a year, year and a half from now trying to get a jury in that area is going to be very, very difficult. They may have to move it somewhere else in Missouri.

HARLOW: And who's going to make the final call if it's moved?

O'MARA: The defense can put in a request, and then the judge makes the final decision. The defense has to show they cannot get a fair jury. Sometimes, you actually have to try to pick a jury, decide you can't then move on.

HARLOW: This is also not the only part of this, right? You've got the Justice Department doing a civil rights investigation here as well. Not just in to the officer but the police force and community at large.

O'MARA: That's correct. You know, if you look at the way the grand jury should be looking at this, have to decide whether or not there's probable cause to believe a crime occurred and if so they'll indict Officer Wilson for something.

Department of Justice has a completely different view. They're going to be looking at whether or not Officer Wilson did something to affect Mike Brown's civil rights and, of course, when someone is killed that's a focus point. But beyond that, then, they're going to be looking at Ferguson PD completely separately to see whether or not they were acting in a way that diminished or denigrated the black population in Ferguson.

HARLOW: Yes. There is a lot to talk about as we wait for this grand jury to make the decision, again, it could happen any, any day now. They have until January. But we're hearing it may happen sooner than that.

Mark O'Mara, thanks for joining us. We'll see you soon.

O'MARA: Sure. Thanks.

HARLOW: Well, Bill Cosby avoided talking about rape allegation since they resurfaced this month. But now we know what he thinks about them. We'll talk about that ahead, along with what our guests think this famous comedian should do next. Should he say something?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: In the wake of yet another round of allegations against comedian Bill Cosby, people are asking, why respond with silence? During an interview with NPR this week the comedian responded to an accusations of sexual assault with nothing but silence and shaking his head.

Well, today we at CNN obtained this statement from his lawyer. It reads in full, "Over the last several weeks decade-old discredited allegations against Mr. Cosby have resurfaced. The fact that they are being repeated does that make them true. Mr. Cosby does not intend to dignify these allegations with any comment."

I asked our panel if Cosby needs to respond to these allegations. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN STELTER, HOST, CNN'S RELIABLE SOURCES: Maybe the theory was if he stayed silent in the interview, they wouldn't broadcast that audio. Because I can't understand why else they would have agreed to give that interview. It was supposed to be an NPR interview about art donations that the Cosby's had made to the Smithsonian. That's a nice gesture, nice reason for an interview, but in light of these events now, it's surprising he agreed to do it at all. I must imagine they now regret it given the lawyer came out and said he's not going to be speaking at all about this again.

HARLOW: And no representative will give any more statement. What is your take?

TARA SETMAYER, CONTRIBUTOR, REAL NEWS ON THE BLAZE TV: Yes, I think that's an interesting. I mean, as a communications specialist, which I've done for many, many years, how do we best handle this? We want to do something that's positive because Cosby has a new special coming out, series allegedly on NBC that's supposed to come out, touting his African art thing. So, let's try to spin it and control the environment as much as possible.

And they figured on radio, you don't have facial expressions. You can't see this disposition, so maybe they can get away with it. But I think they allowed this to get out of hand. Look at the Web site, they did the Cosby meme, thinking that people were going to --

HARLOW: On Twitter.

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: That was a disaster. People, these rape allegations came back up and people destroyed Bill Cosby on this, fairly or unfairly. But that's the world we live in now with social media.

HARLOW: But we should point, these are still all old allegations but from 13 different women. CNN, of course, cannot validate any of it. But Cosby is choosing not to respond.

Legally, looking at this from a lawyer's perspective, we know that there was a confidential settlement years back, but he's never been prosecuted for any of these allegations. So, legally, is this upon advice of counsel?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Poppy, we don't like any of our clients talking or saying anything at anytime, right? This adds a new meaning to radio silent. They ask him the question, he stays shut. So, we don't like, as a general matter, lawyers don't, Poppy, for your clients to talk.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there's two things here. One, I think some of the panelists are giving Bill Cosby too much credit. I think some of it is a strategy from its publicity team. I think you guys are right about that.

But I think it's also a certain level of arrogance that Bill Cosby has demonstrated consistently. I mean, in the midst of rape allegations, to go on the Internet and say, hey, hashtag me, you know? You're either naive or you have a publicity team dropping the ball.

But, consistently, Bill Cosby has had allegations chase him throughout the years and he's always relied on his charm, his fame, his extraordinary wealth, to avoid strict investigation and scrutiny.

And now, over the last ten years, as he's positioned himself as America's sort of racial Grand Poobah, as he's considered the moral leader and steward of the black community, I think he does have an obligation to answer these questions. He's been walking around about sexual impropriety and irresponsibility in the black community for five years. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say, well, hey, Bill, you've been challenged on this, give what happen happened from your perspective on this very issue.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right. Thanks to our panel for that discussion.

Coming up next, incredible new video showing the moments after Malaysia Airlines crashed into an Ukrainian field. You have to see this. It's straight ahead.

Also, Ukraine's leader says he's not afraid of war with Russia. This comes as his nation inches closer to an even more escalated conflict. What would it take to prevent that? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: In Ukraine this weekend, work to remove the wreckage of a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane has finally begun. These pictures were taken today.

But remember, the plane was shot down in July over an area controlled by pro-Russian separatists. The fighting between Ukrainian troops and rebels in that area have kept recovery crews really out since the crash. Also this weekend, some new video emerged from Ukraine allegedly purportedly shot by villagers on the day the plane went down.

Our Phil Black has seen it.

(BEGIN VIDEOI CLIP)

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It is extraordinary that these pictures have not come to light before now. As we said, almost four months after the accident, they are so dramatic. They do appear to show the inferno that was caused by the impact of the largest piece of the wreckage. Remember, when MH-17 broke up in the sky, it was scattered over an incredibly wide area.

From my time at the site looking at that video, it's pretty clear that what you're seeing there is the biggest piece to hit the earth really the center piece, really the bulk of economy class on MH-17, wings, engine, landing gear. Having seen that particular area after the flames obviously died down, I'd only really had a sense before just how big that inferno was. But you can really see from the smoke, from the heat, from the panic and the confusion of the people living just nearby and missed, so lucky not to have been impacted more directly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, this is happening at the same time that Ukrainian troops say they are expecting another attack from Russia and soon.

Again, our Phil Black on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK (voice-over): Scientists in the midst. This armed camp is an exposed outpost of the Ukrainian military. About 30 men, volunteers from the capital, defending a narrow finger of land.

Their tanks, weapons and defenses point to the east, south, and west. Their enemy is close. Somewhere through that haze. They say the pro- Russian separatists regularly attack.

(on camera): This, they say, is the shrapnel from Grad rockets that they say came into this position just yesterday.

(voice-over): They say two men were killed here yesterday, 40 in the last month. To these men, September's cease-fire means nothing, so do Russia's denials about sending fighters and weapons across the border to help the separatists. They say they know they're fighting Russians and they expect a major attack very soon.

To prepare for it, they've been working under ground.

(on camera): This is where dozens of these men sleep at a time. You can see there is one catching some rest just here. They dug this themselves only a few weeks ago. Concrete ceiling, timber supports. They desperately hope that this would be able to withstand a direct hit from rocket or artillery or mortar strike.

In this place where they sleep, you can see they read, they keep cigarettes. It is so close to where the action is. Out through this door, come and have a look. Defensive trenches heading in that direction and the other direction as well because the fighters here tell us that only about 800 meters that way are the forces of the pro- Russian separatists.

(voice-over): A short drive away is the town of Debaltseve, or what's left of it. Locals say artillery fired by both sides falls here almost every day, often destroying homes.

(on camera): This is a strange eerily quiet place. Clearly, it has not always been so. Most of the people here have left. The locals tell us it's mostly the young people that have gone, behind the old remain, because they say they are too scared and they don't know where else to go.

(voice-over): Seventy-three-year-old Galina (ph) tells me of the terror of living under bombardment.

She says she feels like her heart will jump from her body, she's too scared to eat or sleep. These people have little food or power. They dread the coming winter and they don't care who rules over them. They just want peace.

Phil Black, CNN, Debaltseve, Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Phil, thank you for that report.

Let's bring in Michael Weiss. He's a columnist for "Foreign Policy."

First, your reaction to the video we saw before the piece of really the first time we've seen sort of the immediate aftermath of MH-17 coming down.

MICHAEL WEISS, FOREIGN POLICY COLUMNIST: Yes. And it's sort of bizarrely timed. The outlet that released this footage, Komsomolskaya Pravda, tend to -- usually known for taking a more pro-Kremlin line on things, and the footage, although this has yet to be verified or substantiated.

HARLOW: Right.

WEISS: Seems to indicate indeed a surface-to-air missile. There's talk of a rocket being fired. There's also -- you don't know exactly who's saying this because you see shots of various villagers and so on. But there's an expectation, where did the pilot go? Now what we think is meant by that is, they were so used to seeing Ukrainian military fighter jets shot down by separatists they assumed that the pilot would have ejected. So it was later did they discover it was a commercial airliner.

HARLOW: Half --

WEISS: Right.

HARLOW: Talking about this weekend at the G-20 summit.

WEISS: Yes.

HARLOW: Just listening to what the leaders said, I mean, just from Canada's prime minister, to the president's the words to Russia, Vladimir Putin.

WEISS: Right.

HARLOW: That was the focus. President Obama saying the U.S. sanctions against Russia right now are biting plenty good and saying we don't need elevated sanctions now that we're seeing Russia's economy deteriorating.

WEISS: Right.

HARLOW: Putin saying, quote, "There are good hopes from being able to settle this situation." Really?

WEISS: Well, he's been saying that all along. Hasn't he? I mean, to me the more telling, you know, set piece from the summit was the -- the prime minister of Canada, Stephen Harper, confronted him.

HARLOW: Yes.

WEISS: And said, I'd shake your hand, but you should get out of Ukraine, to which Putin replied, I'm not there.

HARLOW: I'm not there.

WEISS: So it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, just -- if you knew nothing about this conflict, Russia claims it's not a party to it, it's not sending in tanks, armored personnel carriers or surface-to- air missiles to shoot down commercial airliners, much less doesn't it have any conventional soldiers or military intelligence officers on the ground. And yet Putin has appointed himself as an interlocutor to sort of resolve this crisis.

So, I mean, look, the sanctions may be taking an economic toll. But the real question is, are they changing Russia's foreign policy decisions?

HARLOW: But they're taking a -- I mean, we saw the ruble fall to an all-time low against the U.S. dollar.

WEISS: Yes.

HARLOW: At what point do the people of Russia send the message to Vladimir Putin, that this is too harmful to us, your citizens?

WEISS: Two things about that. Number one, I don't anybody is really quite confident as to how much money Putin has in reserve, what you might call his rainy day fund for invading other countries. The extent to which he can indemnify himself against Western sanction is yet to be seen. Secondly, he's also preparing his population for a long winter. He's preparing them for this confrontation to be protracted against the West.

So, you know, in terms of when are the people going to rally? They live through austerity -- an austerity economy through the 1990s.

HARLOW: You're saying they're not.

WEISS: They're not. No, I mean, there's no sign yet that there's really a massive popular discontent. The only exception to that rule, and this is something Ukrainians bring up all the time, what you call Cargo 200. That is, dead Russian soldiers coming back to Russia being buried in secret. There is a movement afoot to say what's happened to our boys? It's almost like Hezbollah's policy in Syria. They died on martyrdom operations. Yes, but where were they?

So the Kremlin is denying that it's sending soldiers into Ukraine, when dead soldiers are coming back from Ukraine. And, you know, their whereabouts or the circumstances of their death are being hidden from their people.

HARLOW: We heard Ukraine's leader saying over the weekend, you know, we are not scared of this, we are ready to take Russia on. Realistically, the capability of one against the other?

WEISS: Ukraine would lose in a conventional war against Russia. Would it lose as quickly as say, Georgia did? No. In fact, Ukraine does have a more formidable military infrastructure.

I was in Kiev at the end of the summer and I was sort of astounded because you would expect there to be some anti-war ferment, you would expect members of the intelligentsia, journalistic, you know, media class to say, OK, we've had enough. In fact I found the opposite. Now, again, I wasn't in the Donbas where people would say, just make it stop.

HARLOW: Right. WEISS: But the expectation is if the Russians want to bring this

fight to us, we're going to make it as bloody as hell, and in fact, bleed Russia was the line that I heard.

HARLOW: Really?

WEISS: Exactly for this reason, Cargo 200. They think if they can send more dead Russian soldiers back to Russia --

HARLOW: That might effect change.

WEISS: -- that will change Putin's calculus.

HARLOW: Michael Weiss, good to have you on as always.

WEISS: Sure. Any time.

HARLOW: Thanks for coming in.

WEISS: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, new tonight, federal agents launched surprise drug inspections in NFL locker rooms. It went down today. The details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: A developing story just into CNN coming to us from the world of sports. The "Washington Post" reporting that federal drug agents have carried out surprise inspections today in NFL team locker rooms with their medical staffs. The "Post" reports the inspections are related to an ongoing investigation into prescription drug abuse in the NFL, specifically allegations by former players that powerful and addictive drugs were handed out to players often without a prescription to help them play through those injuries.

Here to talk to me about all of it, the sports side, the legal side, we've got HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson. On the phone with me also, sports business analyst, Keith Reid, he's also a former senior editor with ESPN.

Thank you both for being here.

Joey, let me begin with you. This comes as part of this class-action lawsuit filed by a lot of former NFL players.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Who said we were giving these drugs time and time again to play through the injuries and look what has happened to us as a result.

What do you make of these raids happening across the country today?

JACKSON: Federal government doesn't sleep. They're investigating and they do a great job of it, Poppy. Why? Because they have staffing. They have resources. And listen, when you talk about anything that relates either to criminality, not that this is at this point, or even civil allegations, and you mentioned the lawsuit that was filed in San Francisco, 600 players, right?

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: You talk about, well, what would give you the probable cause to get this information? If you look at the lawsuit, the allegations are just, you know, revealing in terms of what may have been the alleged past practices.

HARLOW: And it's illegal for this -- the "Washington Post" article talks about the fact it's illegal for a physician to distribute prescription drugs outside of, say, their office, for example, outside of their territory.

JACKSON: Exactly.

HARLOW: But that's the legal side of this.

JACKSON: And it's more than that, Poppy. That's a major part of it but you're talking about trainers who are in close contact with the players.

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: And they, of course, are there to take care of the players.

HARLOW: And if they're not a physician, they can't be handing this out.

JACKSON: They can't -- they can't touch it, so therefore it's problematic. If they do, there's regulations on them and the physicians as well.

HARLOW: Right.

So, Keith, let me bring you in here. This has been an ongoing story. I mean, the development is basically surprise raids, if you will. But what has the NFL been saying about this throughout?

KEITH REID, SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: Yes, the NFL obviously has been very careful to defend its teams, to defend the medical staff and the individual teams have been very careful to defend themselves against the allegations in this lawsuit. Of course, you would expect the NFL to do that, expect anybody who is facing serious charges like this to be very defensive and make sure that they're saying the right things.

The difficulty for the NFL, once again, and this has happened time and time again this year, is that it becomes yet another PR hit for the league. I mean, you know, it's one thing to be sued. It's one thing to have these investigations going on. It's another thing when you've got so many things swirling in the court of public opinion.

And the NFL has taken so many blows, so many -- you know, so much damage to its reputation, in particular Commissioner Goodell who already has at least two issues right in front of him with two very popular or two very well known players in Ray Rice and, again, in Adrian Peterson in front of him right now appealing their suspensions in the actions that he took under the collective bargaining agreement that they've got.

So right now the NFL can ill afford in the middle of a Sunday where you've got multiple games going on to have federal agents showing up and rifling through bags.

HARLOW: Right. Yes, but it has -- it has happened.

So, Joey, if improprieties are found, who is in legal jeopardy here? The doctors, trainers, players, teams, owners? Who?

JACKSON: It's a great question, Poppy. And we don't know, but it could be everyone. Now, Keith Reid raises a very good point in terms of the public relations. That might be the least of the NFL's concerns here.

As you mentioned before, Poppy, doctors have significant -- they're significantly regulated and they have responsibilities. If they go beyond that, certainly there's an issue to their license. These are allegations we don't know. And then depending upon the extent of what they were doing, it could arise to a crime. Same with players. Are you supplying the players with pain pills and telling them to go out? Are players knowingly asking for prescriptions or asking for drugs they should not have? Does the NFL -- are they complicit? What knowledge do they have?

So this investigation, I suspect, Poppy, will uncover answers to those questions and those answers will answer your questions.

HARLOW: And it doesn't matter if a player wants them. If it's illegal, it's illegal. If it's happening, to you, Keith, you're -- you know, former senior editor with ESPN. From what you've heard from these players, you got 600 of them who filed this lawsuit, this class- action suit saying this happened to us, former players saying that.

Did they talk to you at all about what drives this? If there's a culture of pressure within the league?

REED: Well, sure, certainly. I mean, listen, you're being compensated a tremendous amount of money and your value decreases tremendously if you're not on the field. And so there is tremendous pressure for you to be on the field, and not just only because of your compensation, but because the NFL is a very much next-man-up league. Right?

We talk about teams where you've got, you know, there are 53 guys on every team, you know, at some positions there are three guys waiting in line behind you to take your spot. And if you get hurt, and you've got an injury that's not, you know, that may be serious, but maybe something that you can, you know, get a shot or take a pill or something like that, in the eyes of a trainer, in the eyes of these fans who expect you to be able to play through that pain, there's a tremendous pressure for you as an athlete to continue to be on the field because you don't want to lose your money, you don't want to lose -- you don't want to lose your starting job.

You don't want to lose that high profile. So there's -- the players are under a tremendous amount of pressure to make sure that they're on the field. Whether or not it will be born out that they -- that some entity, some individuals in the NFL are actually culpable of doing things that are illegal is a different thing, but you're right, there's a ton of pressures on players.

HARLOW: We will see how this all shakes out. Again, this report just coming in that the DEA is investigating and has raided some of the -- some of the NFL locker rooms today during big game day on Sunday. We'll see what it's found as a result. We'll keep on top of this.

Thank you so much, Keith and Joey. Good to have you here.

JACKSON: Pleasure, Poppy. Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next, is college worth the cost? Man, it is a big price tag for some schools. That debate has been going on for a long time.

And this week after New York's former mayor said some students might be better off not going to college and becoming plumbers. So who gets to go to college in the future?

We're going to talk about these comments, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: A college education used to be a pretty secure path to success, but a lot of educators are rethinking that, especially with the rising cost, the astronomical cost of some colleges and the realization that college grads are being buried in student loan debt. Now totaling in the United States, alone, more than $1 trillion. Paying it back depends on finding a job where you can and many can't.

That prompted billionaire Michael Bloomberg to offer this, quote, "Today if your kid wants to go to college or become a plumber, you've got to think long and hard."

So now there are at least so-called boot camps that are springing up, places where students can go and learn a marketable skill that will result in a good paying job at the fraction of the cost of a four-year college institution.

Take a look at this clip from the documentary "The Ivory Tower."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so excited to present to you today our new travel app.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's graduation day at Dev Boot Camp, the end of a 19-week program that turned these students into one of the hottest commodities in the current economy. Coders. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so today they'll be presenting these ideas

that they built from scratch.

ROMANS: For so many years it was a four-year degree. A lot of people are saying, wait, I need something more. A general study of four years isn't going to give you an edge in this tech-based economy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're going to college to get a job, majority of students graduating from college either wish they had attended a different program.

ROMANS: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or wish that they had an additional skill set.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The traditional four-year system, while I really value the social experiences that I have there didn't necessarily --

ROMANS: That -- you say social. You didn't say academic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I feel pretty unprepared by it. And now it's kind of the gap that the boot camp was here to fill, was to (INAUDIBLE) those skill sets. The things that we pack into 19 weeks they are things you might learn in, like, two, three, four years in university.

ROMANS: At $40,000 a year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, $40,000 a year.

ROMANS: You think this is a good value?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundred percent. Majority of people graduate with jobs that pay on average, like, 90K or so for a $12,000 tuition, I think that's worth it.

ROMANS: As student loan debt in America surpasses $1.2 trillion, and millennials account for 40 percent of the nation's unemployed, skill- specific programs like Dev Boot Camp are becoming popular alternatives and add-ons to higher education.

Let's talk about the investment -- you know, it's an investment of time, it's an investment of money. And we're talking about a cohort that has already invested probably a lot of money in an education. How is this different?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really focus on outcomes and we focus on students being able to find careers when they finish this. It's very, very clear that when you finish this program, the goal is to be able to be a junior rep developer, and we get you to that point very quickly and it's really clear what you should do next and how you can get there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friends from college, a majority of them are unemployed. We all have student loan bills. I have staggering student loan bills. I don't know anyone without any debt, personally. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to take charge of my own education.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew that if I graduated with a CS degree at a university, I wouldn't know any Web development.

ROMANS: You wanted to really just focus in on this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, this is what I want to do, so why waste my time? Right now a degree is kind of like a high school diploma. A portfolio means a lot more. If I can show an employer I can build this and I can do this, then I think that'll, you know, land me the job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right. Let's talk about this more with Andrew Delbanco. He is a professor at Columbia University, author of the book "College: What It Was, Is, and Should Be." Also joining us again in Philadelphia, CNN commentator, Marc Lamont Hill.

Thank you both for being here.

I'm a Columbia grad. So you come from a good place. But, you know, it is incredibly, incredibly expensive, and it is being questioned. Is it worth it? Is it translating these days? Where do you fall on this?

ANDREW DELBANCO, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: Yes. Well, you know, you can tell different stories with the same numbers. The numbers are scary. $1 trillion in student debt is probably too high. On the other hand, one reason it's that high is because we have more students than ever before going to college. And I think as a nation, we should actually be proud of that.

We've established ourselves in the world as committed to the idea of having an educated citizenry. And I don't think we should back off of that commitment.

HARLOW: But when you look at the unemployment rate, for example, the jobs numbers every month, it's half. It's cut in half if you have a four-year college degree.

DELBANCO: Right.

HARLOW: However, you have a lot of people graduating from colleges who cannot get the job they need to pay down this debt. Should colleges be cheaper?

DELBANCO: We should certainly find cost containment methods to keep the cost down, but we should also commit ourselves as a nation to reinvest in our public institutions. The reason that student debt has been rising so fast is mainly because taxpayer funds have been withdrawn from our public institutions and the cost has been shifted from the institutions to the students.

HARLOW: Marc, what's your take on this? And also your take on online universities? You've seen MIT, a preeminent school in this country, putting a lot of its curriculum online for free.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think that we have to make a separation between the goals of education for the marketplace and the goals of education for sort of edification and for enriching the entire person.

Everything that school does, everything that college does, can't be reduced to market values, can't be reduced to whether or not it gets you a job. That said, after you spent all that money for college, you do need and deserve and want a job, and so we do have to make a better connection between what colleges offer and what the marketplace demands.

That's part of the reason why you see online universities. That's part of the reason why you see online offerings. Part of it is a market-based efficiency thing. They want to make sure they can get as much stuff out as possible. But part of it is they want to respond to the technological moment. I think that's really important. And you'll see more and more schools doing that as time goes on.

HARLOW: To you, Professor, you're part of this documentary, "Ivory Tower" that we're going to air here on CNN on Thursday night. I want to know what did you find most surprising and disappointing about college education today?

DELBANCO: Well, I think what Marc said is really to the point. I worry that we're starting to think about college as an employment agency. As a job training entity. And, of course, we want our students to come out of college with credentials, not just credentials, but skills and abilities.

At the same time, the American college has always been about, as Marc said, opening up the whole person and introducing the person to him or herself. Feeding the imagination. And we don't want to lose that. That's what college has always been about in this country.

HARLOW: Marc, quickly, before we go, do you think that there's more of a role for the government to step in here?

HILL: Oh, absolutely. Again, the cost of college is too high. Public education needs to be just that. It needs to be for the public. And also we need to think more and more about the role of community colleges. Oftentimes we dismissed them when they are known, according to empirical research, for heating up aspirations, for making people figure out they can do and be even more than they thought before they went in. So I think we need to invest in the public.

HARLOW: All right. Marc, thank you for joining us. Professor, thank you for coming in. We appreciate it.

DELBANCO: Thank you.

HARLOW: Don't miss the premiere of CNN film "Ivory Tower" Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN. Coming up, now that the midterms are over, can President Obama and the

Republicans get along? We will see. But one of their first fights may come this week. We'll tell you what President Obama may be ready to take on which could infuriate the GOP.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Some other stories to look out for this week.

First, immigration. The issue remains at the top of the agenda for President Obama, but will Republicans force another government shutdown to try to get the message across? Probably not. But GOP lawmakers overwhelmingly agreed on the Sunday talk shows that shutting down the government to avoid unilateral action by the president on immigration is not a good option.

Meantime, the State Department has shut down its e-mail system in the wake of a suspected hacker attack. A senior department official says that suspicious activity was recently detected in its unclassified system but believes none of the department's classified systems were affected. The e-mail system was shut down on Friday. It is expected to be up again and running once security improvements are completed.

I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thanks so much for being with me this evening. A big night of television here for you on CNN.

Coming up at 9:00 Eastern, get ready for "Paradise." Anthony Bourdain travels to Jamaica for some jerk chicken, rum and sun. That is "PARTS UNKNOWN" at 9:00 Eastern.

Then at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, Catholicism is one of the largest religions in the world but the Catholic Church has struggled for decades to produce new priests. Lisa Ling travels to Michigan where hundreds of men are rebuilding their religion one priest at a time.

Right now, though, explore the McStay family murder mystery in CNN's exclusive report.