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Dr. Drew
Man Claims Police Psychologist Put Bullet in his Head to Start New Life; Bill Cosby and Resurfacing Rape Allegations; Viral Catcalling Video Controversy
Aired November 17, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW (voice-over): Tonight, a man married to a police psychologist says she put a bullet in
his head, so she could start a new life. But, she is telling a different story.
Also, America`s T.V. dad Bill Cosby and the growing number of rape accusations. Another accuser has come forward. What she has to say about
the legendary comedian and how he is responding. Let us get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host, of course, is Samantha Schacher. And, coming up, controversy is running a viral video showing men cat calling a
woman. It is controversial, Sam. Right?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: That is right. You, guys, remember the video of the woman walking down New York, reporting reactions of men.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: What they say to her when they pass by her. Well, now a comedian is under fire for a couple of jokes he wrote on social media.
And, Dr. Drew, somehow you are involved.
PINSKY: I got in the middle of it. Adam Carolla got in the middle of it. He is going to join us to -- We will sort of relive the whole --
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: -- glory that was that story. But first up, a successful real estate developer shot in the head while he slept. He survived and now he
is suing his wife, who is an NYPD psychologist. He claims she tried to kill him, so she could run off with her lover. She has not been charged
with anything yet, but this is quite a story. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNDIENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): The shooting happened about 4:00 A.M. just about a year ago in an upstairs bedroom. The victim, Kenneth
Dearden, says he woke up with an intense pain in his jaw and blood in his pillow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He survived.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Oh, he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): He says she tried to kill him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): The man of the house was carried out wounded on a stretcher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (on-camera): He says he came downstairs to find his wife on the floor claiming to be knocked down by an intruder, but that
story did not pun out because the alarm had been disarmed from the inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNDIENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): She filed for divorce, nine months after the shooting. She is a senior psychologist at the NYPD.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Can we expect some criminal charges?
JANET DIFIORE, COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We are following and examining the evidence and we will take the evidence where it leads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Evy Pompouras, law Enforcement Analyst, former special agent for secret, Leeann Tweeden, Social Commentator, host of the Tomboys`
Podcast on BlogTalk radio and Loni Coombs, Attorney, Author of "Your Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell." Samantha, what is the husband saying
in this lawsuit?
SCHACHER: This is a crazy story, Dr. Drew. Quite possibly could be a candidate for "Forensic Files," just saying. But, OK -- so, the suspicious
activities, OK? Or the allegations I should say. Alarm had been deactivated from inside the house, did not call his parents after the
shooting, met her lover for coffee the very next morning.
When police returned to search the home, she asked if they had a warrant, and then the gun used was an antique derringer. Her parents had given her
a derringer. However, the bullet was too badly damaged to determine if it came from that particular gun.
PINSKY: But, somebody suspects, it might be the gun.
SCHACHER: Yes. And, if I recall, and I could be wrong. So, I remember reading that, there could have been some evidence suggesting that that gun
was fired.
PINSKY: OK. Got it.
SCHACHER: So, even though they could not locate the bullet, they believe it was fired.
PINSKY: Let us go to law enforcement expert. Evy, do you think she tried to kill him?
EVY POMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The information that we are seeing, the fact that she wanted -- she asked police for a search warrant
before they entered her home. That really strikes me odd. If somebody come into my house and shot my husband in the head, then hit me, as well, I
would be like, I would open that door wide open. Come on in. What do you need?
Also, she washed the sheets and all these other incidents. The fact that she has a lover, again, does not mean somebody is indicative of doing
something like this, but it gives motive. I would want to know, though, Dr. Drew, when did the husband find out she was cheating on her?
Because, I know that this is coming after the fact. So, I would want to point at what point did he find out. Did he find out after she filed for
divorce? Because, that would make sense that he is coming out now, saying I think my wife tried to kill me. Because, if he found out about the lover
now, he may be connecting those dots and then maybe making sets now, that is why he is making these allegations.
PINSKY: All right, Sam, are there other stuff in lawsuit that we should know?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK. So, a quote from the lawsuit that I would love to share with you, guys, quote, "With Kenneth no longer in the picture, Emily
could avoid a contentious divorce, keep the marital home and never admit the marriage infidelity to any family and friends. So, a good way for her
to say face, perhaps.
PINSKY: And, Loni, do you think it is a good idea to file a lawsuit while this is still an open investigation?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, I think he might be frustrated and say, "Look, I have been waiting for a year. No criminal charges have come, so
let me go ahead and file the criminal case. I believe I have enough evidence. It is a lower standard of proof for the civil case. It puts
everything out there and I might get some money out of it."
So, there is really no downside to him prosecuting -- or suing at this point. It is interesting, though, the prosecutors might not be so thrilled
that he is going ahead with the suit at this point. It might be a good question whether he has had any communication with the law enforcement and
the prosecutors are not.
DR. DREW; Leeann, what do you think of this case?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, my Gosh, Dr. Drew. I think she is guilty.
PINSKY: Why?
TWEEDEN: I mean if somebody had come in, in the middle of the night like Evy had said, shot my husband, I would be going crazy. I would not be
having coffee with my lover the next morning. I would not be asking the cops, "Do you have a search warrant, when you come back to the house to
investigate the scene."
I would not wash my sheets. Also, they said in the report that the dog -- they have a dog and the dog did not act like there was an intruder. So,
there was so many things, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And, Leeann there was weird too -- the victim did not know he was shot when he woke up.
SCHACHER: Right.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: He woke up, "Oh, my jaw hurts."
TWEEDEN: They said it went through the back of his head , though his cheek and lodged into his cheekbone.
PINSKY: I mean why would somebody -- anybody in this panel, why would somebody break into a house, hit the wife over the head, walk upstairs,
shoot the guy at the back of the head and then leave?
TWEEDEN: And, did nothing.
PINSKY: Loni.
COOMBS: But, Dr. Drew, why did not he come up with this beforehand? It is interesting that he did not see any problem with it until after she
filed for divorce. He continued to live in the home with her, with their two children. We do not know how old they are.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: But, apparently, he did not feel like he was in danger there with her. Probably, because he did not know.
PINSKY: And, Evy, does not you think that maybe somebody had it in for him, is not that a possibility that somebody like -- I do not know --
SCHACHER: Her lover maybe?
PINSKY: -- or somebody in for this guy?
POMPOURAS: No. I mean --
PINSKY: That is why they said, "It must be that guy or whatever."
POMPOURAS: No. There are a lot of asking. Just to go off of Loni. Loni, we do not know when he found out about the lover.
COOMBS: Right.
POMPOURAS: That is the key thing. That is why he never said anything. And, the other thing that we did not talk about is --
PINSKY: We also learned -- Evy --
POMPOURAS: -- after the whole incident happened --
PINSKY: Evy, I want to interrupt you. We also do not know that this guy - - this woman had that guy as a lover at that point yet. They may have become that after the shooting. Maybe the marriage fell apart as a result
of all this.
SCHACHER: Well, she went to go visit him the next day for coffee.
PINSKY: But, they were friends. They were friends.
COOMBS: No. No.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Loni.
COOMBS: That is also according to his papers. We do not know if that is a law enforcement confirmed or not.
PINSKY: Or she said.
COOMBS: That is just his version.
PINSKY: Right.
COOMBS: Exactly. But, Evy, he did know at the time that if the dog did not respond, if the alarm was taken off, if there was nothing stolen, he
knew all those basic facts. I mean would not you kind of think, "I wonder what is going on here?"
PINSKY: And, Evy, does the fact that she is a psychologist for the NYPD inform you in any way? Does that mean anything to you?
POMPOURAS: I think that the fact that she is a psychologist for the NYPD, I would have thought she would have put something better together. After
the incident happened --
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Yes. I agree.
POMPOURAS: After the incident happened, she took him by the hand rather than go check on their children. She took him downstairs to show him the
gun that she thinks was used in the crime.
PINSKY: And, it was hers?
SCHACHER: That is what he believes.
POMPOURAS: She showed him the weapon.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Does the weapon -- it was hers? -- I heard it was like an --
SCHACHER: An antique handgun.
PINSKY: An antique handgun -- her parents had given her.
SCHACHER: -- Given her along with like other additional guns.
PINSKY: So, what? The guy -- the first guys hit her over the head and then went to the basement and stole the gun and then shot -- It is all
bizarre.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, I have read earlier that the man that she was having an affair with wanted her to get a divorce. He had already filed for divorce
from his wife.
PINSKY: Maybe he did it.
TWEEDEN: So, I think they are already having the relationship long before this happened.
PINSKY: A lot missing here. Next up, more on this husband, his psychologist wife. He claimed that she wanted him dead. And, later, Bill
Cosby is facing accusations of rape. We will look at his alleged pattern of behavior. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Kenneth Dearden claims his wife was caught washing the clothes she had worn the night of the shooting and asked if the
police had a warrant when they returned to investigate further. His court filings called the shooting, quote, "A sadistic attack by an adulterous
defendant, that she was getting pressure from her lover to end her marriage."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We are talking about a man shot in the head while he slept, right through the back -- the bullet lodged in his cheek. It is
unbelievable, he survived. And, he is now suing his police psychologist wife. He claimed she tried to kill him, so she could be with her new
lover.
Let us bring in the behavior bureau. Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University; Erica America, Psychotherapist, T.V.
Host; Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywood.com. Sam, let us review this thing again.
SCHACHER: OK. So, after he was shot, he goes downstairs.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: He discovers his wife. She says that she was hit over the head by the intruder. OK?
PINSKY: So, she was like getting up off the floor.
SCHACHER: Yes. She was lying on the ground. She says, "I was just hit on the head by this intruder." Now, instead of going to go check on their two
kids, she then goes downstairs to the basement and boom, there is the gun. Right?
PINSKY: Weird.
SCHACHER: So, let us talk about this wife. OK? So, she is 47 years old, she was married for 17 years. She is the one that filed for divorce just
nine months ago or nine months after the shooting, I should say rather. And, they have two kids and as we know, her occupation is the NYPD
psychologist.
PINSKY: And, Judy, do you make anything of the fact that her job is to evaluate potential police officers?
JUDY HO, CLINICL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. I am wondering if anybody evaluated her to see if she was stiffed for this position.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Wow! Interesting.
HO: Yes. She is obviously making psychologists look very bad here, Dr. Drew. You know all the funny psychology jokes about how psychologists are
acquaint to each one.
PINSKY: Judy is feeling personally attacked by this story. I have never seen her react like that.
HO: Right.
HO: Her mind is made up.
PINSKY: Yes. Evidently. So, go ahead, finish up. Have at it.
HO: OK. Well, you know, clearly, if her job is to try to make an evaluation about whether or not police officers are fit for duty, you know,
it can be a stressful job, of course. She is dealing with a lot of different things, and logic and angles.
But, there is nothing here that explains that she could have had some kind of mental illness that was not treated that nobody was aware of. We do not
have those clues yet. So, for whatever reason, you know, right now she has some specialty information, because she is an insider.
PINSKY: Right.
HO: And, we have had these cases before where somebody is affiliated with the police and know how to cover things up.
PINSKY: And, Erica, I will give you the same question. But, a reminder, whether she is successful, whether she had an intact family at that point.
She went to an Ivy League School. Does she seem, Erica, like the kind of person, who would kill her husband? And, again, always reminding
ourselves, she actually has not been charged with anything.
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right. Well, Dr. Drew, I will tell you my inside feeling, my gut feeling is, "Yazi, she did it." OK?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yazi?
AMERICA: That is what I am feeling. And, the reason why I think it is taking him so long is that whenever a crime happens inside a family home,
all the evidence is contaminated because the fingerprints are on everything.
So, I think yes, maybe it is taking a little longer, because she is on the NYPD. So, I think they might be giving her a little extra time. But, I do
think in the end, they are going to prosecute her for this murder. And, what is coming a little to me is not mental illness. I have not heard yet
about her mental health background.
PINSKY: Right.
AMERICA: But, more criminality. I mean the fact all this behavior she did, you know, washing the sheets, you know? It was very planned. And,
this seems to me -- you, guys, always say the word evil, and I do not like to use that, but real criminal behavior --
PINSKY: But, is she someone -- Erica, is she someone that was trying to stay on the good side of impulses she had by being a law enforcement --
evaluating law enforcement in a way of containing her own impulses?
AMERICA: No. I think this is someone who really wanted to be with this other man and simply -- I mean this is sort of really out there thinking,
but did not want to get a divorce and thought, "Hmm. How could I not go through the humiliation of divorce? I am just going to kill my husband."
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No.
PINSKY: Vanessa says no, but I wanted to remind everyone that Erica will now be referred to as Evy II. So, Vanessa, go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: I would say I kind of think that maybe she did not do it. I think that this man that she had been seeing flew into town the night
before. I think maybe she undid that alarm on her house to let him in. I think he is the one that maybe shot this guy.
I think she laid down and fake like she had been hit. And, I think he escaped. I think that is why it is taken over a year to get a prosecution
because I think there may be evidence that suggests that maybe she did not act alone and maybe he was actually the one that pulled the trigger.
PINSKY: Well, but the guy --
SCHACHER: I think Vanessa sounds like a defense attorney. Have you been talking to Anahita?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: We are speculating all over the place. Does not anybody -- Judy, I will go to you. We have heard horrible accusations in contentious
divorces, is not this just another crappy divorce where people start thinking of anything that they can accuse their spouse of and they pulled
together some evidence and made it sound like a good story and let us go at her and the divorce. In fact, let us sue her in the process.
HO: Right. And, of course, this is a great example of how when people are in a contentious divorce, they do not act with good judgment. I mean why
are they kind of bring this up even before the prosecution, the investigation is over? Right?
I do not really think that is going to benefit anybody, but they are doing that because they are trying to slander her character right now. Because
whatever it takes to get the kids to make sure that the divorce goes good for him.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
BARNETT: It is been a year.
PINSKY: That is right.
BARNETT: It has been year.
PINSKY: It has been year. But, now the divorce has come --
BARNETT: They are tired of waiting.
PINSKY: -- and that is why they have pulled out all their guns now. I have seen -- Listen, I did a whole documentary on the divorce business and
how horrible it can be.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: It is just no limit. Erica, go ahead. Go ahead.
AMERICA: Excuse me, if I was that man and I truly believed my wife was trying to kill me, to be off with another lover, I would sue his -- a-s-s.
I am sorry, I would do that.
HO: But, Erica, how is this different from, you know, when people in the middle of the divorce accuse their spouse of sexually abusing their child?
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
HO: Then it is a false allegation. This is kind of similar.
PINSKY: It is a new novel variation on the scene, I think.
HO: But, there is some evidence there.
PINSKY: Listen, the story is bizarre and it is sort of chilling.
SCHACHER: Like girl gone wild.
PINSKY: Yes. Absolutely. Well, maybe that is informing how they decided how to do this. If you know what I mean? Maybe that got them thinking,
maybe she was doing that. But, listen, we do not know. We will keep an eye on this. We are going go to the next topic, which is Bill Cosby and
the accusations against him and why he is not talking.
And, later, a woman getting cat calls in a viral video, now, controversial words from an "SNL" comedian about that vide. Adam Carolla got me in the
middle of it. He will be here to talk about it, live and the whole controversy. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: For years, allegations of rape have plagued Bill Cosby. Given the chance to address them, he said nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA BOWMAN, ACTRESS: Nobody is going to believe me that Dr. Huxtable is molesting me. I woke up out of a very confused state. Not in my
clothes. Before I knew it, I was with my head over the toilet throwing up, and he was holding my hair out of my face while I threw up. And, I was in
a white T-shirt and my panties. And, he was looming over me in a white robe.
DON LEMON, HOST OF CNN NEWSROOM: You have never taken legal action, though.
BOWMAN: I did not. No, I did not. And, I did not -- why did not I? Well, I tried. I told my agent one time, she did not believe me. A friend
of mine in `89 took me to an attorney. He laughed me out of the office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Evy, Leeann and Loni. This is the story you are tweeting about most tonight, rape accusations against Bill Cosby. The
woman you just heard claims Cosby assaulted her in 2005. Now, Evy, you believe she is telling the truth. In fact, you seem certain so. How can
you be so certain?
POMPOURAS: You know, this is very difficult, because I did grow up watching "The Cosby Show." I grew up, you know, loving Bill Cosby. But, I
have to be objective here. And, based on what I am seeing in the interview, she is giving --first of all, her demeanor, her speech, it is
all very truthful.
She said something also that struck me. At one point in one of the interview she said, "I will never forget the clinking of his belt buckle as
he struggled to pull his pants off." Now, it seems like something very insignificant; but this is very important, because it is something so
benign, but something should be remembered.
PINSKY: Yes.
POMPOURAS: When you are a true victim and you are recalling the truth, you remember things that are insignificant like that.
PINSKY: Yes.
POMPOURAS: You remember things through your senses like for example, if somebody has their hand over your mouth.
PINSKY: Yes.
POMPOURAS: You will hear with them say," I remember the smell of Vaseline in that person`s hands." Also, when she describes the events, she gives
very point blank, "I was drugged." "There was a T-shirt on me." "I woke up with my panties down."
She goes through that and at the end, she gives you the emotional portion of it. All truthful indicators. And, you know what else, Dr. Drew? Tell
me if I am wrong? Does this not remind you of Jerry Sandusky all over again?
PINSKY: Yes. Unfortunately, these sorts of victimizations always remind me of one another. In this case, I agree with you that this is about her
hearing the tinkling of the belt. Victims usually will tell me, they will remember a color of the wallpaper, a breeze in the air, the smell of some
cologne, something -- and it is intense and it is indelibly left in their memory.
POMPOURAS: Something random.
PINSKY: It is random.
POMPOURAS: Yes. Because they remember it with their senses.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: And, people do not -- when they are making stuff up, they do not think about those highly specific sensory experiences. And, 12 other women
have made similar claims in the past 20 years. Cosby has not been prosecuted.
His lawyers said, quote, "Decade all these credited allegations against Mr. Cosby have resurfaced, the fact that they are being repeated does not make
them true." Mr. Cosby does not intended to dignify these allegations with any comment. Loni, is that the right strategy?
COOMBS: Well, you know, he is -- it is hard to figure out what the right strategy would be, right now, because I will tell you. We are in a
different climate and different atmosphere today, thank heavens, than we were 10, 20 years ago.
PINSKY: In what way?
COOMBS: First of all, we have social media, so people can get their story out there better and you can get support back, a response to what you are
going through. Second of all, there is such a greater awareness and understanding. And, believe me, we have a lot farther to go.
But, people understand more -- the dynamics of sexual assault, this predator behavior, of grooming, of what happens. And, you know, back 20
years ago, somebody powerful, who is a source of money for a lot of people like Bill Cosby, there was no way some little victims, some young women who
is going to be able to take them down.
PINSKY: Well, sexually, the guy seems unassailable. He was America`s dad.
COOMBS: Exactly.
PINSKY: Everybody loved him. Evy loved him.
COOMBS: We all loved him. Yes.
PINSKY: Leeann, let me ask you a tough question. It seems like men of a certain era kind of did that kind of grooming where they brought women in
and told them they were going to be -- make them stars and then kind of said, here is the bill for that. Did you ever have to deal with any of
that? Anyone you know who have to deal with that?
TWEEDEN: No. Thank God, Dr. Drew. I think all of your fans probably know by now my personality. I just have never been that person to sort of fall
for those things. But look, he was grooming young girls --
PINSKY: If it is true. If it is true. We got to remind ourselves, there has been no charges.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: But, go ahead.
TWEEDEN: Right. But, as I always say, where there is smoke, there is fire. Twelve different people, Dr. Drew, something is going on. And, what
they all are saying, they were very young. This girl that we are talking about, the blonde. She was 17 when her agent sent her from I think
Colorado to live in New York. He paid for her bills. He paid for her apartment. He got her acting lessons. But, he never got her a job.
PINSKY: Where were her parents by the way, through?
TWEEDEN: He never even got her like a walk on set. He is like, "You are not ready. You are not ready."
PINSKY: But, why -- why her parents are going to allow their daughter to go to Los Angeles and be groomed by somebody?
TWEEDEN: Yes. But, Dr. Drew, when the biggest star in the world is telling you that your daughter might be the next biggest star, people
believe that.
PINSKY: Yes. It is horrible.
TWEEDEN: It still happens in this day and age.
PINSKY: Yes. I guess it does.
SCHACHER: They dangle it like a carrot.
PINSKY: But, you know what I am talking about?
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
PINSKY: I mean your dad would be like --
SCHACHER: He would be all over it. And, I had some incidents. I never engaged in those incidents --
PINSKY: What happened?
SCHACHER: But, I had one with a huge producer who completely dangled that carrot and gave me --
PINSKY: Was it, come live with me and I will give you a lesson?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Same story? Same story?
SCHACHER: Kind of the same story.
PINSKY: OK, but that is my point.
SCHACHER: And, I would not had --
PINSKY: This is not unheard of story in this town.
SCHACHER: No, it is not.
PINSKY: People hear that story and they go, "Oh, my God. This guy is nuts." I think they did that -- guys were doing that kind of thing.
SCHACHER: It still exists today. Unfortunately, it still exist today. And, they dangle that carrot saying, "I am going to make you a star."
PINSKY: Anybody else outraged -- Leeann, is not that part of the outrage here?
TWEEDEN: Well, yes. I mean he was, obviously, using his power. He was using his status. He was using what they wanted. She wanted to be an
actress. She wanted to be a movie star. Of course, you have a guy that is telling you, "I will bring you to New York. I will groom you." --
PINSKY: Well, yes. But, of course --
TWEEDEN: -- "I get you a job." Of course --
PINSKY: But, I think there is a layer. If this is true and I think I see it on Evy`s face, which you are kind of wincing and little hurt by this
whole thing. You have somebody you love on television, America`s father. Now, it was not his fault that we all thought that way of him, I guess.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: But, that is the guy -- if this is true, that is the guy acting this role out. Evy?
POMPOURAS: Yes. If this is true, I mean, he is probably one of your worst predators. Think about that. You put out this image, "Hey! I am just
lovely" --
PINSKY: Careful.
POMPOURAS: You know? If this is true. If this is true.
TWEEDEN: Well, and --
POMPOURAS: But, if you have that, you see the persona of someone, "Hey, I am a friendly guy, and funny and this and that. And, then behind the
scenes, you have these women, you are grooming them. And, you are picking young women, who are vulnerable, who are scared. They are waiting all
these years, and then when they do speak up, they are laughed at or it is kind of brushed under the rug.
PINSKY: Well, now, it is --
POMPOURAS: And, it is a very difficult thing.
PINSKY: Yes. Now, we have, Loni, the day and age of social media when this stuff cannot be swept aside away.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: But, Loni, you finish me up here.
COOMBS: Exactly, which is really important. And, look, this one victim has been talking about this for the last ten years, and nobody has really
been paying attention to her. She has been giving interviews. A male comedian talks about it. It goes viral, and all of a sudden there is a
swell in social media and now we are all talking about.
SCHACHER: Exactly. There are memes as well.
PINSKY: Yes. And, the next block, how he responded to this is really part of the story. So, this is a very much a social media story to me. Next
up, we have a poll question. Would you attend a Cosby show in light of the sexual assault accusations, these allegations against him and his denials?
Take the poll in our Facebook page.
And, later, what a late night comedian said about this viral video, men cat calling a young woman. He tweeted at Adam Carolla and myself. And, Adam
will be here to discuss with me. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOWMAN: He zeroed right in on my vulnerabilities, which was I had no father figure. So, there was no man to come knocking on his door. He told
me, "Do not ask questions, just be grateful for this amazing opportunity. Do not mess it up."
He would start making me uncomfortable. And, I knew something was going on. I would start asking questions. And, he would say, "You know what?
You do not trust me. You have got to trust me. And, by the way, you were drunk."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica, and Vanessa. We are talking about tonight`s most tweeted story. Renewed accusations of
sexual assault leveled against someone who is considered America`s dad at one time, Bill Cosby. Thirteen women have made similar accusations. Cosby
-- I want to remind you, Bill Cosby has not been prosecuted, has never been.
But, what if these alleged victims are speaking the truth? Evy evaluated the behavior and this language of that woman you just saw and says she
meets criteria of truthfulness. And, Sam, my point to you was, this kind of stuff happens in this town. And, you might not knowing which you are
going to say.
SCHACHE: I know.
PINSKY: Revealed to us that you have had a similar story, and we want to hear a little more if you do not mind.
SCHACHER: OK. No. It was a gnarly story. In fact I never even told my dad because I feared what my dad would do. So, I was right out of college
at UCLA. And, I had a contract from a big producer to develop a show. And, all of a sudden that contract came with a contingency plan with X, Y,
Z, with sexual things.
PINSKY: Like it was written into --
SCHACHER: Through e-mail. Through e-mail.
PINSKY: So, do you still have those e-mails?
SCHACHER: I do. And, I used those against him. And, it was -- I handled it my own way.
PINSKY: This guy was married?
SCHACHER: Yes, with a family.
PINSKY: Samantha, this is reprehensible.
SCHACHER: But, for him to take my contract and dangle it in front of me and say, "You do not get this contract unless." -- And, then I said, "Oh,
no. You are going to give me that contract or else I am going to inform your wife." So, I played a little dirty too. But, I am sorry, you do not
pretend to be interested in my show unless I have sex with you. That is basically --
PINSKY: Sam, I am offended --
SCHACHER: I am upset. I have never talked about this. Now, I am emotional.
PINSKY: Well, it is all right. Are you OK?
SCHACHER: I mean I feel like I am -- like you are Barbara Walters making me cry, already now.
PINSKY: Well, I do not mean to make you cry.
SCHACHER: I have never talked about that.
PINSKY: But, I think it is important because I am offended for women.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I am offended that men behave like this. I am offended -- there should be some special legal category. We do not have any of our legal
guests on at the moment. For violating --
SCHACHER: It made me feel --
PINSKY: -- taking advantage of a power imbalance.
SCHACHER: Yes. Right.
PINSKY: It is a horrible, horrible thing.
SCHACHER: It made me feel not talented. It made me feel like that I was never gifted.
PINSKY: It reminds me of like doctors taking care of cancer patients, teachers with students. The same quality to that -- But there is something
especially reprehensible about this male powerful figure in this town --
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: -- taking advantage of a woman who comes to the town without a lot of resources to try to make a living.
SCHACHER: Yes. I am still pissed.
PINSKY: Still pissed? Now, I am pissed!
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, your dad --
SCHACHER: Oh, my dad.
PINSKY: What do you think he is going to say?
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh. Run.
PINSKY: Run. Run.
SCHACHER: Two-time Vietnam vet.
PINSKY: I know who he is. I know she will not tell me, but you and I, man, we are going to check this out. Erica, you want to say something?
AMERICA: Yes. No. I just -- I too, it is very poignant and I hear what you are saying there, Sam. Because all the stories are very similar. It
is dangling stardom in front of vulnerable people --
PINSKY: In this town. Yes.
AMERICA: Who want to make it because they feel they have talent. And, then taking something sexual and violate in them --
PINSKY: Have you been through something like that? You have been through this kind of thing.
AMERICA: I have, actually.
PINSKY: Oh, for God`s sake.
SCHACHER: Wow.
AMERICA: Of course, I have never went through it totally.
PINSKY: Does every woman that comes to this town have to go through this. Vanessa, you have been through this?
BARNETT: I did not. Thank God.
PINSKY: OK. Erica, what was your story?
AMERICA: No. It was something like in New York City, right after college. I met a lot of -- you know, I would go out to these nights clubs and stuff
and I would be hanging out with these people who are friends with a lot of celebrities.
And, it was like, "Oh, you want to be a television host?" Because I always knew that, that is what I wanted to do. "Oh, well, I know this person and
this person, but do you want to do this and do you want to do that?" And, as soon as I was not interested in that, then the opportunities were not
there anymore.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
AMERICA: Thank God, they never forced me to do anything, but it was really hurtful that, that was the glass ceiling for a lot of -- you know, a lot of
the opportunities.
PINSKY: I am going to give --
BARNETT: But, unfortunately, there are the women that kind of flip the script and there are women that go and they seek powerful men and they
offer themselves in sexual ways and they offer themselves --
AMERICA: I am not going to be that.
BARNETT: -- to be these objects and they have used men in the same way. It is disgusting in both ends. And, we have seen it both sides --
PINSKY: You know, to me, when a woman does that -- Judy, when a woman does that, I worry about psychopathology. To me, that means we need to get her
some help right away.
HO: That is right. Because usually when a woman actually goes seeking for that, there is some evidence that they have derived their entire self-
esteem and self worth on their body. That there has been something in their past that has spoken to that, and that is their tool. That is the
tool at their disposal.
So, I do not believe that, that is what is happening here. From what we hear in this woman`s interview, if she is being truthful, it sounds like
she was a young girl who did not know what was going on. And, she thought that this is the way the business worked and she had to make these
sacrifices to get to the next step.
PINSKY: Please put that Danine Manett tweet up there, just right you just have up a second ago. Because she brings interesting point we have not
talked about yet, which is, "The Cosby is often one to attack other people for their language and for their presentation and he has never want" --
Danine, I am going to read this now, "Never want to hold his tongue or not to speak out on controversial topics. Why so quiet now?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Why so quiet now is the question. Erica?
AMERICA: Yes. I was going to say. So, if you were legitimately innocent and you did not do any of these crimes, your voice you would speak out.
Because you know that you did not do it. He feels what I think it is that he is not speaking out because he thinks, "OK, if I do not say anything,
then another big social media story will come and just kind of cover it up. Because anything I say, it is just going to incriminate me more.
PINSKY: Well, we have not gotten to that -- And, listen, we got so sidetrack by Sam`s story. I am sorry. But, we had not gone the fact that
a part of the problem was he tried to respond and then he responded like somebody who really does not understand social media. That is really where
this thing caught fire.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Speaking of social media, let me go to our faCebook poll. Tonight, we are asking you. Would you attend a Bill Cosby comedy show in
light of the sexual assault accusations against him and his subsequent denials? Take our pollen at hlntv.com/drdrew on our Facebook page. 60
percent of you, nearly, say "Yes, you would still go see him on stage."
SCHACHER: Wow.
BARNETT: I would not see him before the accusations or after. I am not interested in spending my Saturday night on the Bill Cosby show. Right?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Thank you for that, Vanessa. OK. Listen, next up, a man says he was tricked into appearing in a viral video. We reported on this. But,
now, he is saying he was tricked into it. People have been calling him a sexual predator because of his participation, something he was duped into.
You will hear from him live.
And, later, we will talk about another viral video. This one with a woman getting all those cat calls and why a comedian is apologizing for what he
said about it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Evy, Vanessa and Leeann. Last week, we spoke about a viral video called "Drunk girl in public." It was blowing up on YouTube
where it was billed as a social experiment. If you remember, I had an issue with it being called a social experiment.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): You should not be walking around like this. Can I take you to a lift?
BOX: You know where the bus to Culver City.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): I know --
BOX: I think it is that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Come with me. I will take you to my place. I got some beer, too.
BOX: Really? You are kind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Whoa, whoa, you are not going home with him. She is coming home with me. (EXPLICIT WORD)
BOX: I needed a bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Just come with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, the man in the back wearing the baseball cap and tank top will join us in just a second and he is angry. Sam, what is the story
here?
SCHACHER: OK. So, if you remember the premise of the video, she is walking down Hollywood Boulevard, pretending to be drunk.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: But in the video, it features five guys. Well, four out of the five guys, you know, she is saying please somebody help me find a bus stop.
And, four out of five guys are trying to take her home.
PINSKY: Right. Come home with me. Come home with me.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I think -- who on this panel was making issue with how the guys behaved?
SCHACHER: I think I did.
PINSKY: I did too.
SCHACHER: I did. And, unfortunately, people all over the internet were calling them rapists and perves.
PINSKY: Vanessa, was that you that was really strong on this one?
BARNETT: No. I did not --
PINSKY: Leeann? It must be Leeann.
BARNETT: But, yes, they are disgusting.
TWEEDEN: Yes. I hate this face videos.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well, we did not know it was fake at the time. But, tell the rest of the story, Sam.
SCHACHER: OK. So, after everyone in the internet is calling them pervert, pigs, rapists, all of the above, then remember we found out live on air
during the segment that it was all staged.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: So, now some of the men are coming forward saying, "Listen, we got duped into this. We want to clear our names."
PINSKY: All right. And, one of those men is with me right now. His name is Mike Koshak. He is on the phone. He is the man wearing the tank top
and had the baseball cap on you saw. Now, Mike -- there he is, right there. Mike, you allege this was all staged. Did the makers of this video
approach you and if so, what did they say?
MIKE KOSHAK, MAN DUPED BY "DRUNKEN GIRL" VIDEO MAKERS: Yes, they approached me. There was three people. One guy came up to me and asked if
I would say a few lines for a little comedy skit that he was doing.
PINSKY: So, he actually gave you the lines.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: He gave you the lines. He actually said, here is what we want you to say?
KOSHAK: Yes.
PINSKY: And, we are actually looking at the YouTube video right now while we are talking. And, what are people saying to you online?
KOSHAK: I mean, I really did not get too much negative feedback, but I did have a lot of people, friends and family, I got posted on Facebook on my
wall. And, a lot of people are just really confused, because it just showed me like a total opposite light of the person that I am. So, it was
really like a surprise to a lot of people.
PINSKY: Let me -- I want to show the viewers what Mike says he received in a Facebook message from someone associated with the video. It read,
impart, quote, "The important thing to consider is that this video is going to get you well known and have a future with us and our company. We need
to hangout soon, because drinks are on me all night. Just go with it, dude. We will take care of you."
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: We reached out to the video`s creator, we did not hear back before out deadline. Mike, first of all, how did you react when you got that
message and have you heard anything since?
KOSHAK: I pretty much just said, "Wow." It was just like, you know, I thought my initial instinct is this guy is trying to mess me up all over
again, you know? It was very surprising to me. For one thing, how can it be a positive thing when the light they were trying to portray us. There
is no way that that can be positive.
PINSKY: So, we are clear, Mike, you are saying this was all staged. You were given specific script and instruction on what to do in front of the
camera, is that accurate?
KOSHAK: Yes.
PINSKY: OK. Hang on. I want to hear from the panel. Leeann, you seem busting out on your skin here. Go ahead.
TWEEDEN: Well, I mean Dr. Drew, it is one thing if this was like a comedy skit, you know, that it was making fun of it --
PINSKY: Well, that is what they told him. That is what they told him they were doing.
TWEEDEN: Right, exactly. It is another thing completely to do it as a social experiment and look at guys in a bad light --
PINSKY: We will say it, it is a social experiment. And, by the way, saying anything is an experiment without consent. Evy, what do you say to
this guy?
POMPOURAS: You know, the last time we actually spoke about this, Dr. Drew, I was the one who defended the men and I was the one who actually
questioned this video. I said, "You know what? This seems very odd. It could have been edited. How do we know the quality of this video?"
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I do remember that.
POMPOURAS: And, that is why -- you know, people put these random things up on air and we always assume, "Oh, it must be true." You know, I think
shame on them and shame on how they portrayed Mike to be. You know that? That is really inappropriate. That has ruin his reputation.
PINSKY: The thing had millions of views.
BARNETT: And, that is all they wanted, though. They wanted notoriety. They wanted views. They did not care anything about the social -- It is
disgusting.
PINSKY: Is not that what we complain about, the impact of social media, and people being online just to be famous, just to get seen?
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: This is the worst of that. Next up --
BARNETT: And, there is still people that will not believe him.
PINSKY: -- An SNL comedian is catching heat for his words about a street harassment video, another viral video. Adam Carolla joins me live to talk
about the comic and his comments after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Where you going today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Smile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Hey, what is up, girl? How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): Hey, baby.
UNIDNTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (5): Hey. Damn!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Evy, Vanessa and Leeaan. The woman you just saw walk through New York City with a hidden camera and over ten hours she
was cat called over 100 times. Just that little piece I heard at least 20 damns!
SCHACHER: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Over 36 million of you watched that video on YouTube. It is got you talking especially on social media. And, now myself and my colleague,
Adam Carolla are somehow in the middle of all this. Sam, it started with one specific post, is not it not?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK. So, Michael Shay, We all know him from Weekend Update, the anchor on "SNL."
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Well, he had a couple of jokes that he wrote on social media in response to this cat calling video. So, the first post reads, impart,
quote, "I want to apologize to all the women that I have harassed with statements like hi, or have a nice day or you`re beautiful. I cannot
imagine what that must feel like."
Then came a follow-up post, which reads impart, quote, "I want to apologize for my last apology. Sometimes I forget that I belong to all of you now
and that any thought I should have be filtered through you and receive your approval. I am used to taking risks and finding humor in places of
discomfort, but that is all over because I have a job on T.V." Now, cat two, you and Adam Carolla, how did you, guys, get involved in all this.
PINSKY: OK. So, I was on Adam`s podcast on Carolla`s show yesterday. Is that yesterday? And, I sort of tweeted out -- somebody tweeted that we
were talking about it and I mentioned it on tweeter and Michael Shay responded with what I do know. And, I did not know what he meant by that.
And, Adam is on the phone. Adam, are you there with us?
ADAM CAROLLA, HOST OF ADAM CAROLLA SHOW: Yes, I am.
PINSKY: So, apparently, what he meant by that was, "What did I do this time? Now, what have I done?" It is supposed to what I do now like I read
like some sort of robot. But, ultimately, you were coming to his defense to be able to express himself to in fact just be a comedian, right?
CAROLLA: Well, I mean, you know, we started by silencing, you know, I do not know, politicians and officials. But, we worked our way to comedians.
If you think about it, you used to be able to say things as a comedian. You could not say as a politician and you could not say if somebody ran a
university or even a fortune 500 company. We used to let comedians say what they wanted to say, right?
PINSKY: Yes. I mean that was the whole idea, to push the envelope, to be -- to make us laugh at ourselves.
CAROLLA: Yes or not. But, either way, that was the comedian`s job. It was, you know, we used to get uptight when we saw or heard politicians
saying things or clergy or leaders of one kind or another. I mean, people in a position of responsibility.
Comedians, it is their jobs to say things that are not responsible. They make jokes. They may mean a lot of the things they say, but they are still
comedians. They do not run universities or companies. It is insane what we have decided to do as comedians.
And, As I have always -- I was sitting and thinking about this, Drew, because I am always trying to think about this from a sort of psychological
angle. Like when did we all turn into this? When did this really kick into overdrive?
PINSKY: Yes.
CAROLLA: Because that is all it is.
PINSKY: Yes.
CAROLLA: Nobody really cares what this guy said, what that guy said or what I said. Nobody is really offended. They are offended on behalf of
other people, but is never the people you are talking about.
PINSKY: Adam, I am --
BARNETT: No. That is not true.
CAROLLA: Yes, it is.
PINSKY: Vanessa, go ahead. Address that.
CAROLLA: I mean it is 99 percent of the time.
BARNETT: That is not true at all because as someone who has been self degraded by cat calls, who has been uncomfortable, who almost fear for
their lives because of aggressive man was someone online is making jokes about it then these people are now still bullied. These people are killing
themselves based on words on social media. And, yes, if you are a comedian, do it on the stage.
CAROLLA: No, they are not. That is called depression.
BARNETT: Be funny on the stage.
CAROLLA: That is called depression.
BARNETT: But, when you have people --
CAROLLA: That is called clinical depression.
BARNETT: But, they are killing themselves. And, so when you are depressed --
CAROLLA: It is called clinical depression. It is not nearly killing themselves.
BARNETT: -- you are clinically depressed and you are lying and you see people saying and making jokes about something you are going through --
PINSKY: All right. Hold on. All right --
BARNETT: -- yes, if you are depressed, you might take drastic measures.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa --
CAROLLA: Yes. So, it is clinical depression. It is not words people say online.
BARNETT: But, it does not mean that they do not have the right to feel the way that they feel and if they see it, they feel that way.
PINSKY: And, Leeann, you were -- hang on, Vanessa. Slow down. Leeann, you were more supportive of that.
TWEEDEN: Yes. I do not think he should have even apologized for what he said in the first tweet.
PINSKY: Well, but he have to because he was going to lose his job.
TWEEDEN: Lose his job, Dr. Drew? He is a paid comedian on television.
PINSKY: Yes --
TWEEDEN: It is not like you think --
PINSKY: -- but he is with a company that might have an issue with exactly what Vanessa is talking about in which case he could lose his job for
speaking his mind.
TWEEDEN: But, he is paid to be funny and they are paid for satire. They are paid to be in SNL--
PINSKY: All right. Evy, last thoughts here?
TWEEDEN: They supposed to be provocative. They need numbers of viewers here. So, this is probably a good thing for SNL.
POMPOURAS: Listen, guys, I have to say that when it comes to comedians, I have seen it time and again where they make these comments and then they
feel quickly they have to apologize. I feel that we should allow them some leverage to be creative and express themselves. That is what sometimes
these badgers make them funny.
PINSKY: Well, Adam -- Adam, the critics agree. Thank you for joining us.
SCHACHER: Almost. Bye, Adam.
PINSKY: As always, Adam, with you and the critics agree.
SCHACHER: Bye, Adam.
PINSKY: Thank you for joining us. "FORENSIC FILES" is up next. Got to go. See you then.
END
