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At This Hour

New Rape Allegations Against Bill Cosby; Obama Orders Review of Hostage Policy; Vote On Keystone Pipeline Today; Is College Worth It; Children Become Orphans in Syria

Aired November 18, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Another woman is stepping forward, accusing Bill Cosby of sexual assault. Her name is Joan Tarshis. She says the comedian drugged and raped her on two occasions when she was just a young woman. The journalist and publicist says it happened 45 years ago when she was just 19 years of age.

She spoke to Alisyn Camerota, my colleague on "NEW DAY," earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN TARSHIS, ALLEGES BILL COSBY RAPED HER IN 1969: We went up to his suite and he knew that I liked to drink Bloody Marys and he topped them off with a bit of beer, which he called a "red eye," and I drank one of those and, which he made for me, and the next thing I remember is being on his couch with him taking my clothes off. And feeling very drugged and very hazy.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": So he took your clothes off and then he sexually assaulted you?

TARSHIS: No, first I said to him -- he was starting to and I said "I have an infection." I thought I was being clever. I said "if you have sex with me your wife will know, she'll catch my infection." And he very quickly made me give him oral sex instead, which was horrible.

CAMEROTA: And, Joan, why didn't you go to the authorities? Why didn't you go to the police?

TARSHIS: Who was going to believe me? It's he said/she said. Bill Cosby is Mr. America. He's the perfect father, he's the perfect husband. His image is clearer and whiter than the whitest snow. Who's going to believe me? They'd think I was out for something. I didn't think I'd be believed. He's a serial rapist and I don't believe serial anythings quit what they do. I think they do it until the day they die, until they continue do it anymore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Cosby is now 77 years old. We need to point out, he has never been charged. His lawyer released a statement on Sunday. We want to read it to you. "Over the last several weeks, decades-old discredited allegations against Mr. Cosby have resurfaced. The fact they are being repeated does not make them true. Mr. Cosby does not intend to dignify these allegations with any comment."

Miss Tarshis joins a growing list of women who have come forward. Another accuser, Barbara Bowman, has been out spoken. Sunday she appeared on CNN's "Reliable Sources" and said she's disturbed that Cosby is in talks for a new show on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA BOWMAN, ALLEGED RAPE VICTIM: The fact that he has a show coming out perhaps this summer, in my opinion, is a little bit on the irresponsible side of a network to be endorsing.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You think NBC needs to back away from the programming they're developing?

BOWMAN: I think they need to take a good hard look at what is important to them and with the allegations -- it's not that it's just me, there's 13 of us on record that were going to testify in a court of law. There are others. It is a big deal. What happens is victims don't come out. They don't talk. They're ashamed, they're embarrassed, they're scared, they're intimidated, they're pushed into darkness and shame and fear by the perpetrator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Our CNN media correspondent, Brian Stelter, is here with me now.

We were watching this and shaking our heads. There's so many things I can talk to you about but let's talk about the business aspect of this. NBC's planning a show. Netflix is in work with a show with Cosby. That puts them a tight position given all of that that's in the atmosphere.

STELTER: It's a conundrum. Netflix faces it more tightly, it's supposed to premier the day after thanksgiving. Maybe they won't promote it as much as they were going to.

PEREIRA: How do you think it will be received?

STELTER: Cosby has a lot of fans out there. Some fans might want to support him more than ever throughout this so I think it will do just fine but Netflix never releases ratings so we never know how these things perform. The tougher situation is for NBC because NBC started developing this project with him many months ago. It was a big deal and still could be a big deal for the network.

PEREIRA: The return of Bill Cosby, right.

STELTER: It's a big sitcom. He'd be the grandpa on a "Cosby Show" style series, multigenerational family sit come. It might be like modern family with Cosby at the center. The network hasn't gone very far down the road, they haven't produced a pilot episode so it would be easy to walk away but it's a pr nightmare for them aside from the other nightmares in this story.

PEREIRA: Absolutely. I was thinking about the notes of family and all of that with these kinds of allegations out there. You and I both honed in on one interesting thing that Joan Tarshis said. When she was -- you didn't get to hear it but I was there during this interview this morning on "new day" and the thing, when she was asked by Allyson, there are people that think she wants money, is trying to embezzle him. When asked what she wanted to come out with this, she said?

STELTER: She just wanted to be believed. She wants her story to believe believed and the other women's stories to be believed because in the past for decades these stories weren't believed. They didn't get as much media attention as they're getting now. Something's changed. Many things have changed. They're getting attention now. That's the kind of thing NBC couldn't have expected ten, 11 months ago when they developed this show.

PEREIRA: Even those these allegations have been around for years, haven't gone away, resurface, is this time different?

STELTER: It does feel different. But I think -- let's take the NBC situation one step further. If they walk away from this show, if they walk away and don't produce a pilot or put it on television, they probably owe Cosby a lot of money. Often times in these contracts the stars will get some payout if it doesn't go forward. Keep in mind, as you've said in the beginning, he hasn't been charged so it's a very thorny situation.

PEREIRA: We'll talk about it and hopefully you can work your sources.

STELTER: By the way, Cosby's silent. So is NBC.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

We'll take a short break here @THISHOUR. Ahead, they are brutal terrorists. Here's the question, should the U.S., should our administration negotiate with ISIS to win the release of hostages? This is a top question. We'll try and look for answers next.

Here's another question you've probably been pondering around the dinner table. Is college worth it? A lot are asking that. We'll look at why college tuition has been so high and the tough choices facing parents and kids.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA KASSIG, MOTHER OF PETER KASSIG: Peter's life is evidence that he has been right all along -- one person makes a difference. Our hearts are battered, but they will mend. The world is broken, but it will be healed in the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Heartbreaking words from the mother of Peter Kassig. But hopeful still, which is amazing.

Peter Kassig, of course, the aid worker beheaded by ISIS talking about her son one day after we learned Kassig had been murdered by the terrorists.

We're learning the president has now ordered a review on how the U.S. handles hostage cases. We know that ISIS is still holding at least two Western hostages, one of them is British worker beheaded by ISIS talking about her son one day after we learned Kassig had been murdered by the terrorists. We're learning the president has now ordered a review on how the U.S. handles hostage cases. We know that ISIS is still holding at least two Western hostages. One of them is British journalist, John Cantlie. But the U.S. doesn't pay groups ransom like -- ransom to groups like ISIS and we know that neither does the British government. We do know that some European countries do, however. Those countries are believed to include Germany, France, Italy and Spain. However, the foreign ministers of those countries have denied that they pay ransom to terrorists.

We want to discuss this with Steven Bucci, the director of the Allison Center for Foreign Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation.

First of all, I think we can both agree it's heartbreaking to see the press conference of Peter Kassig's family having to address the fact that their son has been brutally murdered.

STEVEN BUCCI, DIRECTOR, ALLISON CENTER FOR FOREIGN POLICY STUDIES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Of course, Michaela. For any family to lose a loved one this way in such a horrible fashion in front of the whole world, it just tears you apart.

PEREIRA: It really does. But let's talk about the fact that now the president is said to be considering looking at this policy and reviewing it. Where do you stand on this? Do you think the no ransom policy is part of what should be reviewed or do you have concerns about that?

BUCCI: Well, I think that the review of the policy, all of our policies, needs to happen periodically, particularly on something as gut wrenching as this type of situation. So the fact that they're doing the review, I think, is a good thing. I personally do not believe that we should change our policy and begin to try and ransom people. But there are situations where, you know, not all of these things are exactly alike. There's a difference between ISIS and, say, some of the groups that are in Latin America that, frankly, do kidnapping solely for business purposes. And there a ransom might be more appropriate. With somebody like ISIS, absolutely not.

PEREIRA: One of the points that we hear made repeatedly is that those ransoms -- in fact, we can show that the U.S. Treasury estimates $120 million has been paid to terrorist organizations, essentially helping to fund these groups. Is that your concern?

BUCCI: Well, yeah. I mean, the ransom is part of their funding stream, if you will, on how they run their businesses. We don't want to help these people that are then going to turn around and try and capture more Americans or more allied citizens and sort of perpetuate this whole system. We need to fight against these folks.

PEREIRA: Here's the concern. It must be so challenging. I think that when we watch video like -- that we saw of Peter Kassig's parents and we feel their plight and their pain and their anxious wish, if we ever thought we were in that situation most of us think we would be so desperate we would do anything to get our loved one back. How do you deal with families in the midst of the throes of that kind of grief and help them understand what needs to be done?

BUCCI: Well, I was not part of the dealings with these folks. I know Mr. Foley's family has been very vocal that they did not feel they were treated in a respectful manner, in a manner that gave them the impression that the government was really as concerned about this as they were. We really need to do a better job. And this is not a political thing. All of our government officials need to make sure that they are so conscious of the pain that these people are going through and that they deal with them appropriately. It is just a horrible situation.

PEREIRA: And we know that part of the review that will be looked at is that the family engagement portion, which you're speaking of. In terms of intelligence gathering, do you think that that part of the policy needs to be tweaked? I suppose this kind of thing needs to be reviewed periodically, does it not?

BUCCI: It does. I mean, you never know when changing a policy is suddenly going to be advantageous. Not all terrorists are alike so there could be situations where a review would cause us to change. I don't think, though, with the case of ISIS this is the time to do it. These guys are not there to negotiate. They're not there to get any political gain. They would see negotiation, particularly by the United States, as a sign of weakness that they would then exploit for their propaganda needs.

PEREIRA: Such a challenging conundrum that I hope we never find ourselves in having to weigh these issues and thoughts.

Steven Bucci, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I appreciate it.

BUCCI: Thank you.

PEREIRA: A little breaking news just in. We know today is a big day in Congress, a big vote today scheduled for the Keystone Pipeline project, not one without controversy. Some news in.

Our Dana Bash is joining us.

Sorry, Dana, I'm putting too many things in my head at the same time. A little bit of news we've got here.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. CNN has obtained a statement from Independent Senator Angus King saying he is going to vote no on the Keystone Pipeline. The reason this is important is that the Democrat pushing this, Mary Landrieu, says she has 60 votes needed to overcome a fill buster from her fellow Democrats. We don't know who those 60 votes are but we keep hearing no votes publicly and this is the latest. Angus King had not said explicitly that he was going to vote no but the thought was perhaps he would go along with Mary Landrieu who would be the one to help her because he is an independent and all about problem solving and coming together and finding compromise. But in the statement CNN has obtained, collusively he said that Congress is not nor should be in the business of legislating the approval or disapproval of the construction project. He says he hopes the president does make a decision soon and that, if he doesn't, then Congress should take over. It's very dramatic.

PEREIRA: Yeah.

BASH: Is Angus King is not going to be the yes vote, who is going to be the yes vote? Landrieu says that she's got it. And this is critically important for her because she's trying to prove to the folks back home she's got power and gravitas in Washington. She's in a runoff in December.

PEREIRA: December 7. We know the president has voiced concerns about his own concerns. There's legal battles ahead of this project.

Dana, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.

BASH: Thanks, Michaela.

PEREIRA: We'll be watching.

Ahead @THISHOUR, let's talk tuition. It's on the rise faster than any other costs. So many people wondering, is it worth it? We'll look at the pros and cons of a college education.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Is college worth the price of admission anymore? That's what a lot of parents and kids are wondering. Many can't find jobs after graduation. One CNN film is looking into this serious dilemma. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rise in student tuition is unsustainable. We cannot continue to charge significantly more year after year after year without running into some kind of a brick wall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: College tuition has increased more than any other good or service in the entire U.S. economy since 1978.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Joining me is the president of Purdue University, Mitch Daniels, and the former governor of Indiana.

Governor, thank you for joining me.

I recognize you're the president of the university. So you're clearly pro-secondary education. But help us understand this because so many families are struggling with the rising costs of college tuition. Is it still worth it and why does it keep going up?

MITCH DANIELS, PRESIDENT, PURDUE UNIVERSITY & FORMER GOVERNOR OF INDIANA: It's clearly not been worth it for everybody. It depends on the college you attend and the character of the education that you get there. I'm eager to see your film, Michaela. It's obviously asking all the right questions.

PEREIRA: A lot of us are anxious to see it, too, especially those of us with student debt lingering in their lives.

So how do you help students and parents navigate this question of whether college is right for them? What do you advise?

DANIELS: You asked how we got here. It's no great mystery. First of all, people were told that a college degree was almost essential for success in life. It was heavily subsidized by the federal government. Colleges tended to pocket the money and keep raising the price and no one was keeping score. There was no means of telling whether a given diplomat from a given school was worth it or not. Here at Purdue, we've sided that's just not acceptable. We froze tuition last year and this year. It will be frozen again next year. We reduced the cost of room and board. The all-in cost of attendance at Purdue has gone down the last two years, first time since those records were kept. On the other hand, we're investing heavily in rigorous education, computer engineering, science, things we're good at, things the nation needs. And we're out to document the value of the education kids get here.

PEREIRA: We know it's not always just about what goes on in the classroom. That college experience does a lot to mature a person, the experience you have on campus, the experience you have just being in a classroom setting and debating ideas with other students. You can't really put a value on that.

DANIELS: No. But you can do a better job than higher ed has ever done of being accountable for those results and figuring out what happens. We produced the Gallup-Purdue Index. And we have looked at boilermaker alums so we can compare to that. We learned things like internships and work experiences related to the field of study are extremely valuable later on. Undergraduate research, likewise. And so what we have to do is accept the responsibility in higher ed to approve the value and to improve through learnings, like the Gallup- Purdue data gives us, the quality of what we're providing young people.

PEREIRA: Governor Daniels, thank you so much for -- I have a feeling there will be a few more people looking at Purdue and seeing if that works for them, given the statistics you rattled off to us. Thank you so much for that. We'll be watching as well as we know you will, sir, CNN's film "Ivory Tower." It's Thursday, 9:00 p.m. eastern, right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Thousands of children have lost one or both parents during the fighting that has raged for almost four years in Syria.

Our Arwa Damon takes us to an orphanage that's now home to some of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With new backpacks almost as big as they are, the children file into the orphanage after school. Their faces and behavior betray few of the horrors they have witnessed or their suffering. Their fathers are dead, lost to illness or war in Syria. Their mothers decided to send them here.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: What's your name?

DAMON (on camera): My name is Arwa. What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: My name is (INAUDIBLE)

(voice-over): She's 8. Here father killed by a bullet on the way to work.

"Daddy used to take me every everywhere," she tells us.

(SHOUTING)

DAMON: The orphanage opened recently, offering a safe place. Toys replace those they left behind in Syria. Clean water to wash with and regular hot, healthy meals.

The orphanage was established by Maram Foundation named after another little girl paralyzed by shrapnel.

YAKZAN SHISHALDY, CO-FOUNDER, MARAM FOUNDATION: We want to get children away from all that's happening inside Syria and give them the right to have a normal life away from the war because of the regime.

DAMON: And the impact is already being seen. The head of the orphanage says the little girl is often lost in the memories of her father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: "I would see him in my dreams," she remembers. "I would see him giving someone something."

She seems less haunted by his death, dreaming instead of going home to Syria and teaching Arab.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Turkey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Those little faces.

For ways to help, please visit CNN.com/impact. That's it for us. Stay warm out there.

Ashleigh Banfield is next.