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Obama Reconsidering Terrorist Negotiation Policy; Palestinian Terror Attack in Jerusalem Synagogue; Interview with Star, Charles Manson's Fiance; Author Tells of Manson Crimes in Book.

Aired November 18, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just past the bottom of the hour. Watching CNN.

Right now, President Obama's considering a policy overhaul that could change the future of hostage negotiations. We know one hostage, one American hostage remains in the hands of ISIS. And we know there are others held by militant groups all around the world. And while many other countries will pay for the safe release of their own civilians, the U.S., that does not happen. But might that change? Should that change?

Let's discuss with the man who knows the horrors of being a hostage firsthand. He is Roy Hallums, who was kidnapped in Iraq in 2004, held for 10 months before being rescued in a raid by Delta Force.

FORMER HOSTAGE: Mr. Hallums, welcome to you. Thank you for joining me.

ROY HALLUMS, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Can you just take me back to that? I'm sure they were ten excruciating months for you. Take me back to the day you were rescued. What was that like for you?

HALLUMS: Well, the day I was rescued, I was in this darkroom under the floor of a house where I was being held. And I heard helicopters coming in for the house. And I heard lots of people running and yelling, no shooting, just yelling, and then the little room I was in, there was a door in the ceiling sealed with concrete, and I heard someone hitting on that door with what sounded like a sledge hammer. And American soldier jumped down in the room where I was and pointed at me and said, are you Roy? And I said, yes. And he said, come on, we're getting out of here. I said that sounds good to me.

BALDWIN: And along that -- I'm sure it did. But along that entire time, were you imagining conversations that the administration was having with your family. Sure there had been communication and effort to come find you?

HALLUMS: Well, yes. I mean, I was in the Navy for 20 years in the military. So I knew people would be looking for me. But I knew it'd be difficult because we're talking about finding one little farmhouse in Iraq. So you can think about Iraq is about the size of California. Imagine finding somebody under the floor of a house in California. You know, I knew they'd be looking, but it would be a difficult situation.

BALDWIN: Given recent hostage situations involving ISIS, of course, we're all familiar with James Foley, we know that his mother made some, you know, allegations about how the U.S. government treated her during that whole ordeal before her son ultimately was beheaded by ISIS. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE FOLEY, MOTHER OF JAMES FOLEY: We met wonderful people within our government. Good people who cared, who wanted to help. But the reality of the bureaucracy and, really, was such that we were not helped. As an American, I was embarrassed and appalled. You know, I think our efforts to get Jim freed were an annoyance.

We were told we could not raise ransom, it was illegal, we might be prosecuted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: To hear her use the word embarrassed. She was embarrassed. I wonder how you feel or how your family feels. Let me ask you two different points. One about, you know, the fact the U.S. doesn't pay, and it's for reasons, because that would just be, you know, that the carrot for the terrorists to continue to take Americans because they see dollar signs on someone's head. How do you, how does your family feel about that?

HALLUMS: Well, I mean, on a family basis, I'm sure the families would want the ransom to be paid or anything to be done to save their loved one. On the other hand, I understand, and I believe that the ransom shouldn't be paid. And I'm telling you that from a person who has a completely different point of view. Because I'm the one who is sitting there in the dark tied up.

BALDWIN: That's right.

HALLUMS: And the ransom's not being paid. And let me tell you, nothing was paid for me. But once you start doing that, you're going to continue to do it. And you've got to keep in mind, there's two types of gang that catch hostages. One is a political gang that wants a political statement and no amount of money will save the person. And then a criminal gang, like the criminal gang that had me, they may make political demands but really only care about the money. They're the ones that are going to keep the hostage alive.

BALDWIN: Then there's the issue of information. This is my final point with you because I know you were telling our producer that your family was frustrated. And you're a military man, you know, as you mentioned. You sort of know, you can imagine the machinations of trying to secure your safe release. But to have, you know, your sister, your family wanting information and the government not giving it to them, they're worried the information's going to fall in the wrong hands, correct?

HALLUMS: That's exactly the issue. The family wasn't told very much at all. Just like the previous lady said. And I believe the major reason is -- like in my case, and I'm sure in her case, the agency that has control is the FBI. And they don't want information to be released that might indicate their sources or how they collected the information because that could be a danger to other people. On the other hand, they need to tell the family something more. And I've told the FBI this before. That something needs to be done to tell the family something because --

BALDWIN: Were they receptive to that?

HALLUMS: -- in my family's case -- I didn't get a yes or no. I'm telling you I told them that in meetings. I've spoken at conferences and told them my story and sometimes I get a question just like you asked. And I've told them something needs to be done to help families get more information because I know there's some information they could tell them that's not completely classified. And that's the area that needs to be worked on, I believe.

BALDWIN: We wanted to come straight to you. What a unique perspective you can share. And thank you for your service.

Roy Hallums, appreciate you sharing your time with me this afternoon.

HALLUMS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up, we'll take you back to our breaking news, this peaceful house of worship turned into a gruesome scene. Four people were killed. Men wielding axes and knives inside a synagogue early in the morning. The mayor of Jerusalem joins me next.

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BALDWIN: Continuing coverage of the breaking news out of Jerusalem. You have Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowing reprisals for the gruesome terror attack on a Jewish place of worship this morning. Even in the face of a recent spike of violence, Israelis are stunned at what happened today at the synagogue in west Jerusalem. You have these four rabbis, three of whom were from the United States. They were slain by two intruders screaming Islamic religious slogans.

We're going to take you live to Jerusalem to the mayor of Jerusalem, Mayor Nir Barkat.

Mr. Mayor, I am sorry about what happened in your city. Thank you so much for taking the time with me this afternoon.

NIR BARKAT, MAYOR OF JERUSALEM: Thank you, Brooke. Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Focusing on the facts, can you tell me as much as you know as far as who these attackers were? BARKAT: Well, we're talking about two individuals that have been

incited by the Hamas and terrorist movements. And unfortunately, also, a lot of the Palestinian leaders, they were incited to go and kill Jews. And they took butcher knives and went into synagogue and butchered and killed people while they're praying. And it's unacceptable and impossible to grasp how people could behave like this. And it's very, very clear to us that it's after months of incitement and terrorizing people. And this -- enough is enough. We have to stop the terrorist attacks. That is exactly what the national government and we will do.

BALDWIN: Let me ask about that. These terrorists weren't from the West Bank. They were from Jerusalem. So in terms of the safety and well being in your city, what will you do to increase that, especially at these holy sites?

BARKAT: Well, we have to understand that the reason for the -- for them to taking butcher knives and going to kill Jews is the incitement and lies that have been told by the terrorists and the Palestinian Authority about all kinds of rumors and misfacts about the way we are treating the Arab visitors to Jerusalem. You should know that Jerusalem is an open city where Muslims manage the Muslim sites. Christians, it's the safest place in the Middle East for Christians. They can safely pray in the Christian sites. And Jews manage Jew sites. And for us it's imperative that we seek peace and enable people to freely move around the city of Jerusalem. Unfortunately, terrorists want to kill Jews, to terrorize us and naturally make us run away from home from our home in Jerusalem. And we will not allow that to happen.

Indeed, what Israeli police and all of us together are focusing on is increased punishment for the people that take the law into their own hands. As much as we can by law, fight the incitements of the Palestinian Authority and other responsible people in our region and seek peace, seek quiet. This is deep into the Jewish heart. And we will continue seeking peace and quiet as much as we can.

BALDWIN: I mean, to report on a terror attack of this nature. I was talking to one of our former CIA officers. The nature, the meat cleavers and the axes, I mean -- what do you make of the gruesome, gruesome nature of what happened there this morning?

BARKAT: You know, I landed in September '11, when the Twin Towers fell in New York, and I saw the pain that America and the Western world went through. And then I also saw some of the people in the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas jump in happiness. And send -- you know, "V" marks and how they won America. It's, unfortunately, the same people, exact same people that take the pictures of the murders, the butchers of today, and define them as martyrs and continue and praise and send more kids to commit suicide against Jews, in the case of Jerusalem, and against Americans and beheading of Western people all over the world.

Unfortunately, terror is terror all over the world. And we had a very terrible terror attack today. And the message to the Jewish people here in Jerusalem, we'll overcome. We'll stay on course, have more security, fight the terrorists and fight the incitements. And the message to the world, enough is enough, fight terror. There's zero excuses, zero excuses for taking the law into your own hands.

BALDWIN: Mayor of Jerusalem, Nir Barkat, thank you so much for joining me.

And coming up, after a quick break, you'll hear the response from President Obama.

We'll be right back.

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BALDWIN: Some time over the course of the next three months, 80-year- old Charles Manson, one of the most infamous murderers in the United States, in history, might legally marry his long-time girlfriend by the name of Star, who is all of 26 years young. Now, the couple has attained this California marriage license, which is good for 90 days. If they go through with what would be a prison ceremony, there will not be any conjugal visit afterward because he is serving a life sentence for seven murders, including the murder of Actress Sharon Tate, who was eight months pregnant at the time.

CNN's Ted Rowlands talked to Star, whose real name is Afton Burton. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why come here and why do that?

AFTON "STAR" BURTON, ENGAGED TO CHARLES MANSON: Well, because I love him. And somehow I've got half a brain that I can see that he is the one that knows what's going on. He's the one that is in the truth, wherever nobody else is.

ROWLANDS: What is it about him compared to other people you've met in your lifetime that makes him so unique and different?

BURTON: Charlie always tells the truth no matter what.

ROWLANDS: And you've not found that from anyone else?

BURTON: Very few people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: OK. Joining me live from Los Angeles is Alisa Statman, and she is a film director, a long-time family friend of the Tates, and the author of the book "Restless Souls," which tells the story of Manson's crimes from the Tate family perspective.

Alisa, thank you so, so much for taking a moment with me today.

ALISA STATMAN, FILM DIRECTOR, AUTHOR & TATE FAMILY FRIEND: Thank you for having me. BALDWIN: We were briefing talking commercial break. You heard the

news about the marriage. You thought that's old news until they actually were getting this license. You've been in touch with Sharon Tate's niece this morning. What is the family saying in reaction to this?

STATMAN: I mean, the first thing that goes through my mind is that the fact of the state of California is granting Charles Manson a license to get married, to get married, is such a travesty of justice. I mean, here you have a man who is convicted of arguably the most heinous, savage murders in American crime and we're granting him, you know, the right to be married.

And let's remember that Manson was not only convicted, he was sentenced to death 45 years ago. His only right at this moment should be to live. Anything beyond that is a travesty of justice. And I think it says a lot about the California judicial system.

BALDWIN: So that's your perspective. What about the Tate family? What are they saying?

STATMAN: The same thing, you know. I think that -- Patty Tate always said that this is an open wound. The fact that her sister was murdered by these people, even if it was 45 years ago, is an open wound that never closes. And every once in a while, there's a story like this of Charles Manson getting married that opens up the wounds and throws the salt in it. And it's very, very upsetting. I spoke with Brie this morning, and she's extremely upset. She's upset about the fact that -- let's remember that Sharon was 26 years old when Manson killed her. And here, Manson is --

BALDWIN: And so is Star.

STATMAN: -- is thinking about marrying a girl who is 26 years old. And the irony of that, the fact that he took Sharon's life, and the fact that she was, you know, just weeks away from having a baby, it's really, really hurtful for Brie. And if Patty and her mother and father were still alive, I'm sure that they would be equally upset.

BALDWIN: What is it, Alisa? I mean, you know a good story coming from Hollywood, and being part of that world. But would you think of Charles Manson, people are -- it's almost like this freaky cult-like following, be it these young women fascinated with him, be it Hollywood, authors, journalists. There's something about him that people want more of. Why?

STATMAN: It's the snowball effect, dating back to the time of the murders. You know, you had -- you had these savage, savage murders that happened in the sanctity of one's own home. You had a Hollywood movie actress who was pregnant. You had the famous men's hair stylist, a coffee heiress, a writer. And the fact that, you know, this was the time of peace, love and harmony, only to find out the people responsible for this, after months of searching, was Charles Manson and his family who were at the center of the hippie movement. And that just escalated and escalated. And it continues to escalate today. I think the fact that a Hollywood actress, in the sanctity of her own home, if it can happen to her, it can happen to anybody. I think it continues to scare the heck out of everybody even until this day. Charles Manson -- and he has done this himself -- has become the embodiment of evil.

BALDWIN: Well, on this day, let's remember Sharon Tate instead.

Alisa Statman, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

STATMAN: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, we've got some breaking news for you involving ISIS. There's now word Iraqi security forces taking back a major refinery in the hands of terrorists. It's a standoff that's lasted months and months. We'll tell about the hundreds of bombs planted.

Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

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