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Dr. Drew
The Rape Allegations Against Bill Cosby; Another Woman Coming Forward With Claim Of Sexual Abuse; Mama June Talks To Dr. Phil; Charles Manson Getting Married Behind Bars
Aired November 18, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW (voice-over): Tonight, the rape allegations against Bill Cosby, another woman coming
forward with claim of sexual abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN TARSHIS, FORMER ACTRESS/JOURNALIST: The next thing I remember is being on his couch with him taking my clothes off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW (voice-over): Plus, mama June talks to Dr. Phil. But, her daughter, Anna, says her mother is lying about the relationship with a sex
offender. She is back with us live. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Good evening everyone. My co-host with me tonight is Samantha Schacher. And, late developments in the allegations against Bill
Cosby. The super model, Janice Dickinson, is the latest person to say Cosby sexually assaulted her. This after yet another accuser told her
story. Her name is Joan Tarshis. She said she was only 19 when drugged and raped. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN TARSHIS, WOMAN ACCUSING COSBY OF RAPING HER: Bill Cosby, the all American dad, the all American husband, the person -- Mr. Jell-O that
everybody loves. Who would believe me?
He made me a drink, the same drink that he knew I liked. I drank the Red Eye, the Bloody Mary. And, very shortly after that, I just -- I passed
out. I woke up, or came to very groggily with him removing my underwear.
And, I said, you know, if you have sex with me, your wife is going to know it because you probably will infect her. Instead, he made me have
oral sex with him, which really was just horrible.
To me, it is much, much worse than had he just raped me the normal way. He said, I am going to give you $20 or $10 and call a cab for you. I
thought, you are such a perverted creep. I just never want to see you again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com; Karamo Brown, host of #Ownshow on Ophra.com; Evy
Pompouras, Law Enforcement Analyst, former special agent with secret service. Sam, she said she did not want to see him again but something
else happened allegedly.
SAM SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST OF DR. DREW ON CALL: Yes. OK. So, according to this woman, when Bill Cosby called to tell her that he was
going to perform, which was a monologue by the way that he said that she worked on, remember? Because she was a writer.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: So, it was her mother that picked up the phone. Now, her parents were huge fans, right? Bill Cosby fans.
PINSKY: This was like 1969, right?
SCHACHER: This was -- Yes. She was 19 years old, years ago. The mother picked up the phone. They are very excited. They did not know
about this alleged first incident.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: So, she felt like that she kind of had to go, because her parents were fans. She did not tell them about the first incident.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: So, when she went. Then when she went, she claim that at some point throughout the evening she was drugged.
PINSKY: This is that episode or were there was another episode?
SCHACHER: Well, we are going to roll tape on that.
PINSKY: OK. OK.
SCHACHER: But, in this incident she claimed that she was drugged and that woke up the next morning naked.
PINSKY: Wow! Oh, my goodness.
SCHACHER: This is the second incident that I am talking about.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: We are going to show tape.
PINSKY: As we mentioned, the former super model, Janice Dickinson, now also saying she was a victim of Bill Cosby. Here she is on
Entertainment Tonight talking about her incident in 1982.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANICE DICKINSON, SUPERMODEL: In my room, he had given me wine and a pill and the next morning I woke up and I was not wearing my pajamas. And,
I remember before I passed out that I had been sexually assaulted by this man. The last thing I remember was Bill Cosby -- request the robe, and
getting on top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us now is E.T. co-host, Kevin Frazier. Kevin, you made a reference to a pill she says he gave her and asked if he knew she
had been in treatment for chemical dependency. What did she say to that?
KEVIN FRAZIER, CO-HOST OF ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: She said that, you know, she was having cramps, actually, and she asked for a pill. And, she
got the pill. And, then she had already been given wine.
So, it is very interesting that she just come out of rehab. MR. Cosby, according to Janice, actually called her while she was in rehab and
then found her in Bali and told her to get to Tahoe for a meeting.
She said she remembers being groggy and watching him take that robe off. And, she described it very graphically to me when we first sat down.
And, so, you listen to these stories because I talked to Ms. Tarshis the day before. The stories are eerily similar.
PINSKY: Yes.
FRAZIER: And, that is what kind of -- that what gets you when you listen to how the stories are the same. Because you know, both these women
were women who struggled with alcohol abuse and substance abuse.
PINSKY: Right. And, Kevin, you know, Janice was very open about having been a sexual abuse survivor. And, so, she makes a good victim. I
mean she understands that victims are re-victimized by people who can sense that about them, which is a crazy thing about humans. Now, Kevin also
asked Janice whether she had ever told anyone about this alleged attack. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICKINSON: I cannot remember that. I do not want to implicate anyone because Bill Cosby is a very powerful man.
FRAZIER: How did this incident affect you?
DICKINSON: This is one of the biggest regrets and resentments throughout the course of my life. I have compartmentalized the memory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You know, Kevin, I know Janice very well and she does do that kind of compartmentalizing, but why did she say she was coming forward now?
FRAZIER: She said that she actually tried to write about it back in 2005, or 2006, in her book. And, that Mr. Cosby`s lawyer stopped her from
writing about it back then.
PINSKY: Wow!
FRAZIER: And, so, now, she felt that there was strength because of the other women coming forward, and she felt like she could talk about it
now. But, it is something that she has not hidden from, and that she has wanted to talk about and as mentioned, at different times before.
SCHACHER: Hey, Kevin, Samantha here.
FRAZIER: Hi, Sam.
SCHACHER: Hi. Did she mention to you that she ever confronted Bill Cosby? And, if so, how did he react to her?
FRAZIER: She said she did not confront Bill Cosby. In this incident, he had purchased a first class ticket from Bali to Tahoe. She got there
after the incident happened, she woke up. He had purchased her a first class ticket to New York.
She said she got up and she said I have to go now. I have to go home. And, she got on the plane and went home to New York. Just like Ms.
Tarshis, she said, she was so embarrassed and humiliated. And, she felt like she was in a sense, stupid for letting this ham.
PINSKY: Yes.
FRAZIER: And, you will hear that, it is something that the other victims have said in their reports.
PINSKY: Well, and that is the way people who have been victimized, you know, if they rationalize what has happened. They feel responsible for
having made it happen.
Kevin, buddy, thank you so much. We will look for the full interview tonight on Entertainment Tonight. And, I really appreciate for stopping
by, Kevin, as always. Now, Evy, last night, you said you thought Barbara Bowman, the woman, who was reporting -- the first woman to report on this,
was being truthful.
You analyzed her way she spoke about this. What about -- There she is there. And, you said it was -- it met every criteria of truthfulness you
could measure casually. What about the accuser we are talking about tonight? Not Janice, but what we saw earlier.
EVY POMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. I saw her --
PINSKY: Or Janice -- Sorry. Or Janice too for that matter. You want to analyze both of them, that is fine.
POMPOURAS: Sure. Well, the previous one, not Janice. Her indicators are also truthful. She gives the information in chronological order. She
is also not very emotional, which is typical after 45 years. She states the facts and it is toward the end where she gets emotional. That is a
truthful way of telling a story.
And, you can see her almost reliving it. Another thing, Dr. Drew, she speaks in the past. She never switches tenses, which also shows that she
is recollecting from the past and you can see her visualizing it, because when she gets to the part where she speaks about where she gave him oral
sex, what do her eyes do? They close, because she is almost trying to get rid of that image from her mind.
Again, analyzing her, very truthful. And, just in the snippets that we just saw Janice, again, very truthful. She talks about regret and she
talks about not having said. And, the fact, that she did try to come out back in 2005 and that this has been earlier on, again, we see all these
indicators that this has been going on and everybody has been doing what? Trying to cover it up.
PINSKY: Anahita, you defend women who have been taken advantage of quite a bit.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
PINSKY: Does this measure up for you in some way?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Well, it is tough, you know? If I were defending Bill Cosby in this situation, what I would do is I would attack
the credibility of these women. And, I would question, why are you coming out now? Is there some type of financial incentive? Are you trying to,
perhaps, exhort him --
PINSKY: Well, Anahita, what about this business of Janice trying to write a book about it?
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
PINSKY: And, his attorneys stepping in. Can she prove that now? Is there some record of that do you think that she can find?
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not know. I do not know what legal basis they would have had to prevent her from making these allegations in a book. She
has a first amendment right to do that.
PINSKY: Threatening suit, saying it is untrue. They cannot prove it.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. That is going to be a difficult thing. Because, look, Dr. Drew, this is -- and, that is exactly, actually, what his defense
team would do. Remember the statute of limitations is up, so none of that matters.
But, assuming that it was not up, then that is what his attorneys would argue. He would question them, because you are trying to create an
audience for your book? You are trying to get sales?
PINSKY: OK.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, it is difficult, you know? Because, so many of these women, their stories are so similar --
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- that there has to be some truth to them.
PINSKY: Karamo, I am going to give you last word.
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Sure . Dr. Drew, I was heart broken when I heard this story. But, I will have to tell you that if this
is true and Bill Cosby has done this, I hope that they put this man in a jail. And, I hope that he stays there until he, unfortunately passes,
away.
But, before he goes in, I hope that he tells these women how sorry he is for what he has done and that he says that he regrets it with every
fiber in him. Because his message, all the good he has done, everything he has done is gone, if this allegedly is true.
PINSKY: These are strictly allegations. He has not been charged yet.
BROWN: Yes, if it is true.
PINSKY: We are going to have more on these alleged sexual assault in just a second. And, later, the Mama June Family drama. Anna Cardwell will
be here live. She has some issues with what Mama June told Dr. Phil. We will analyze all of that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TARSHIS: I thought, well, this cannot happen again. We are going to be in a theater. So, I am perfectly safe. The limo took me to his hotel.
When I went up to his room and I noticed he had this big shaving kit. This men`s shaving kit, opened up with lots of pills, bottles in there. Almost
filled up with pill bottles.
And, he made a drink. The Red Eye. And, I drank it and everything was fine. At one point, very shortly after that, I began to feel very,
very, very drugged. I passed out in the car. When I came to, it was the next morning. And, I was in bed with him naked. And, the sun was shining
in through the windows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam. And, now, according to this woman, Joan Tarshis, and there have been at least another dozen, who are alleging that
Bill Cosby is a rapist. His representative has denied past allegations and Cosby, himself, has remained mum.
So, let us bring in the behavior bureau. First up, Emily Roberts, Psychotherapist; Wendy Walsh, Psychologist, author of "30-Day Love Detox."
And, welcome, Mary Lynn Rajskub, Actress, Comedian. Now, Sam, first up, that woman says she was 19 when she was drugged and raped. How did this --
You discussed how it happened again, right?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK.
PINSKY: The parents wanted to meet Bill Cosby or something?
SCHACHER: Well, I think they were just really excited for her.
PINSKY: I am confused. I am still -- so, this episode she described --
SCHACHER: Second encounter.
PINSKY: The second encounter.
SCHACHER: The second encounter --
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: -- where she went to the theater because her parents were so excited.
PINSKY: Got it. Got it.
SCHACHER: Apparently, she did not even have a seat. She stood in the back, then she started to feel really, really drugged at some point.
PINSKY: And, it went bad.
SCHACHER: Yes. She went to the car.
PINSKY: Let us have Evy for a second.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: A lot of real specifics in how she described what she saw in the room.
SCHACHER: In the bathroom.
PINSKY: The bathroom.
SCHACHER: Hotel bathroom.
PINSKY: Yes. And, that was, you know, when she was 19, 1969. She still remembers the senses of that moment.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Suggest that she is telling the truth.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: I understand we are having some tweets, though, that people are coming to Bill`s support.
SCHACHER: A lot of people, Dr. Drew, on Twitter are supporting Bill Cosby. In fact, the General Consensus is that the media has convicted him.
Let me read one tweet right here from Debbie.
She writes, "I wish people would leave Bill alone. As long as you have money there is always some thief trying to put their hands in your
pocket." And, then from Grace, "It is his right to say nothing, for his own words could be used against him."
PINSKY: Yes. Let us remind ourselves that one of the reasons that this caught fire is he tried to respond through Twitter.
SCHACHER: The mean generator.
PINSKY: That is right. And, they generated the wrong kind of meme. It really went bad.
SCHACHER: Exactly. Right.
PINSKY: So, Emily, if these allegations have any truth, whatsoever, what do you think is going on with this guy?
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOLTHERAPIST: I think what was happening, you know, early on in his career, I guess, 1969 when this happen is ego
inflation at its finest. It is very narcissistic in a way.
PINSKY: So, narcissism. OK, narcissism.
ROBERTS: Yes. I mean he is luring these young women, very young women. And, not even actually using sexual acts. He is using drugs
because he cannot even -- he does not have the ego to actually do it in himself.
I think that later on the allegations come forward, like Janice said earlier, in her interview, that is also a big power trip. It just keeps
inflating the ego. So, yes, I think there is a lot of narcissism behind him.
PINSKY: Got it. All right. Mary Lynn, welcome to the program. It is such a pleasure to give you such a lovely topic to begin a program with.
MARY LYNN RAJSKUB, ACTRESS & COMEDIAN: Oh, my God.
PINSKY: Lynn, what side is absolutely strickening you? What are you thinking?
RAJSKUB: You know, as she was just talking, I was thinking about we have all seen his dance moves at the beginning of his sitcom. And, no
woman in their right mind would want to sleep with that. Also, good news for women. You know, I know when I go out to maybe have a chastity belt
and mace but now I know to bring the pH tester as well for my drinks.
SCHACHER: There is a new nail polish too that will detect it as well. So, perhaps --
PINSKY: Really?
SCHACHER: Yes. There is a new nail polish. Yes. You dip. And, then it alerts you.
PINSKY: Very interesting.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: OK. Now, during the Howard Stern SiriusXM morning show today, he pointed out the Bill Cosby had a fascination with something he
was calling the Spanish fly. This is from 1969, the same year the allegations -- so-called, what happened to Joan Tarshis. Those allegations
happened in `69, as well. Take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD STERN, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: Bill Cosby who has been accused of drugging women and then undressing them and having sex with them. Listen,
early on. This is an old, old, old bit from when he was young. His fascination with Spanish Fly and you can see this is really something with
him. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: When I was 13, man, start talking about weird things. No, really, standing on the corner. Do you know anything about
Spanish Fly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Wendy, I would not condemn a man for that. I think a lot of 13 to 15-year-old males have bizarre thoughts about things that are on the
order of a Spanish fly, which is supposedly a sexual stimulant for women.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. And, Dr. Drew, we want to be clear that in 1969 and early `70s, everybody was talking about this
hypothetical aphrodisiac, Spanish Fly. Aphrodisiac, not a drug, not somebody that would -- not a drug that is going to immobilize somebody.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: So, I think taking that, and butting it up against these modern claims of something that happened a long time ago is kind of unfair,
because that was just a joke for the times, for the audience at the time.
PINSKY: May Lynn.
RAJSKUB: Yes. In the act, he goes on to talk about, if only a woman had taken that and then she was like, "Oh," and he makes some sound. And,
then there would be a group of women. We could all go in and have sex with them.
I do not think in any time that is ever considered normal. And, I mean maybe he would be better off with tinder nowadays. You know, seeing
young girls that are easily willing to have sex. But, this is in no age a normal thing.
ROBERTS: But, sometimes comedians use --
PINSKY: Emily?
ROBERTS: But comedians often use their own stuff.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: Their own experience. They make light of that.
RAJSKUB: There was also comedian that shed light on this in the first place. In Hannibal when he talked about, you know, are we going to have to
go our comedians to get justice in the world. We should call carrot top and have him start telling us what is going on in the world.
PINSKY: And, Mary Lynn, that is where it all started. Do we have that footage? We actually had it. Can we bring that down, anybody?
Emily, can we play that? All right, I will play that in a second. But, I do want to remind people, he is -- again, this man has not been charged
with anything. He is not been convicted of anything.
ROBERTS: Yes, these women are not going to the police, Dr. Drew. They are going to the media.
PINSKY: And, what is bothering everybody is that they did not go to the police. However, there is a pattern her and it is all very, very
disturbing and problematic, particularly the pattern of sort of grooming whether or not they actually -- they will never be able to prove, you know,
this distant time when somebody was drugged. Just too much time has passed.
SCHACHER: Sometimes, it takes a lot of time to finally get the courage to speak up.
PINSKY: All right. Let me play this what Mary Lynn referenced. I have a tape of that. Let us play it right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Pull your pants up, black people. I was on T.V. in the `80s. I can talk down to you because I had a successful sitcom. Yeah, but you raped
women, Bill Cosby. So, it kinda brings you down a couple notches. I do not curse on stage. Well, yeah, you are a rapist, so --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Emily? Do you want to comment on that?
ROBERTS: Yes. They are making light of things that they cannot process. Think about it. He is really making a joke of this and it is
getting reinforced and he is starting to minimize the severity of it. It is not a funny topic. I do not care who you are. But, it really is not
especially when all these allegations have occurred.
PINSKY: Wendy, last thought?
WALSH: Dr. Drew, all comedy is tragedy viewed from across the street. Everything we laugh at is tragic and it is a defense against psychic pain.
PINSKY: Listen, as Adam Carolla said last night, comedians have suddenly come under attack. We used to attack politicians for speaking out
of line. Now, we are attacking comedians whose job it is to speak out of line. So, let us just remind ourselves for that.
All right, next up, Honey Boo Boo`s sister Anna Cardwell is here live with me. She wants to respond to Mama June`s interview with Dr. Phil. She
says her mom is still lying even in that interview. And, later, mass murderer, Charles Manson, getting ready for a prison wedding. How young is
the bride to be? You may be shocked. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA `CHICKADEE` CARDWELL, HONEY BOO BOO`S OLDER SISTER: She has never apologized to me for ever seeing him or being around him.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it totally changes the complexion of the story when the guy you are dating was convicted of
molesting your own daughter.
CARDWELL: Mama did not believe me for a while. And, she is like, "Why would you do that? Why would you that to me?"
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: And, it really makes me emotional, because her sole purpose is to love you and to care for you, and
she did not do that.
CARDWELL: Mama does not know who Pumpkin dad is, and Pumpkin thinks it is Mark, which kind of hurts my feelings, because mama was making her
believe that someone that did it to me is her father. Now, Pumpkin hates me for it.
PINSKY: She was having sex with so many men, she does not know who the father was?
CARDWELL: Right.
PINSKY: And, now pumpkin is, this is her dad?
HEATHER MCDONALD, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It is so depressing. It is so sad, and Mama June is awful.
CARDWELL: I am waiting on her side of the story to come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, and Karamo. Honey Boo Boo`s oldest sister, Anna `Chickadee` Cardwell, told us she wanted to hear mom`s side of
the story. And, now we have all heard it. Mama June talked to Dr. Phil about allegations she had rekindled a romance with Mark McDaniel, the man
that molested Anna when she was just 8 years of age. We are going to hear from Anna, again, in just a second. She cannot hear me. So, we will cut
back to Sam. And, Sam, this was a heavy interview, right?
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh. I mean there were a number of things that mama June said to Dr. Phil that blew me away. But, the admission that she
had this track record with all these men. So, we know she dated Mark McDaniel for five years. OK?
PINSKY: A convicted sex offender.
SCHACHER: A convicted sex offender.
PINSKY: Of her own daughter.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Got it.
SCHACHER: OK. So, she admitted that she was working at McDonalds at night shift. That is when he would molest Anna?
PINSKY: When she went to work at night at McDonalds.
SCHACHER: Yes, then we learned that the man that fathered her daughter, Lauryn Pumpkin and Jessica Chubbs, all these names --
PINSKY: And, Pumpkin thought that McDaniel was her father.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: But, it turns out it is a different sex offender.
SCHACHER: Yes. Well, this sex offender, exactly, Dr. Drew, he was arrested for sexual exploitation of a child in 2005 and guess what? He is
in jail until 2026.
PINSKY: Now, even Sugar Bear, who we met from the show had a prison record.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Which I did not know about.
SCHACHER: Yes. So, aside from these two sex offenders that she dated, Sugar Bear who is Honey Boo Boo`s dad -- it all gets so confusing.
Sugar Bear went to jail for five years for reportedly robbing camp sites and setting them on fire.
PINSKY: That is a lovely thing. Dr. Phil pressed Mama June for the truth. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHILLIP MCGRAW, PSYCHOLOGY: You said the whole truth will come out on your side. What is the whole truth?
JUNE `MAMA JUNE` SHANNON, MOTHER OF HONEY BOO BOO: I am not in a relationship with Mark McDaniel. I am not in a relationship at all.
DR. PHIL: And, you have no doubt in your mind. You are convinced that he sexually molested your daughter.
MAMA JUNE: Yes. I admitted that.
DR. PHIL: And, in this picture, it is you, him, and who is in the middle there?
MAMA JUNE: That is Alanna.
DR. PHIL: You took her to meet a registered sex offender. You put her in his world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Honey Boo Boo`s sister Anna `Chickadee` Cardwell joins me now. Anna, you are having a big yawn there, but mom allowed your 9-year-
old sister near Mark McDaniel. What do you think about that?
ANNA `CHICKADEE` CARDWELL, MAMA JUNE`S OLDEST DAUGHTER: I think it is crazy. I think mama should never have done it in the first place. She
should not went over there to see Mark -- Even with Alana. She should have kept Alana at home knowing that she is going to meet Mark. I do not care
if it was Pumpkin. Pumpkin I do not care about because, you know, she wanted to get answers. But, Alana, that is a whole different story.
PINSKY: Does not it trouble you that Alana is precisely the age, I believe that you were, when this man have sexually abused you?
CARDWELL: No. Alana is a year older than me when it happened. And, you know, everybody is saying that Mark was distant from her. Mark was
away from her. That do not mean anything. Alana is 9 years old. I was 8 when it happened. Alana is only one year apart.
PINSKY: Now, Anna, your mother -- and by the way, this pictures that we are looking at are from TMZ. Your mother told Dr. Phil that she was not
in a relationship with Daniel. Do you believe that?
CARDWELL: No. Not what I have been hearing recently. And, what has happened, I got a screen shot on my Facebook -- on my phone from Facebook
of what happened and what she did. And, she did not actually spend two days with him. She actually spent a whole week with him.
PINSKY: What do you mean? What are you referring to? I do not understand.
CARDWELL: Well, I got on Facebook the other day and I saw Lee`s Facebook, Uncle Poodle`s Facebook. Basically, Lee`s regular old Facebook.
I saw where his husband Allen posted on his page of actually the day that mama has seen him. She has seen him from September 9th through September
12th.
PINSKY: And, there are pictures of each day on Uncle Poodle`s site? Is that what you are saying?
CARDWELL: There are no pictures of each day, but there are days when they went to the Casino, when they went to North Carolina. There are
pictures of Mark right there, maybe five or six feet away from mama. Alana is over there on a horse taking pictures.
PINSKY: Well, Anna, would not there be evidence like in the casino security? What Casino was this?
CARDWELL: It was somewhere in North Carolina. That is all thing I know. That is all I saw. They stayed at a Resident Inn in North Carolina.
They went to some Casino and they went to a place called Ghost Town. I know that much. And, I think that is where the photo was taken at.
PINSKY: And, who was with them at the time?
CARDWELL: It was Allen, Lee, Mark, and Alanna and mama.
PINSKY: Alanna, My goodness, in a motel. Now, Anahita, you said before that CPS, Child Protective Services, should intervene here. Do you
still feel that way?
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely. I mean Dr. Phil should be giving her some therapy, not interviewing her. She is sick in the head, Dr. Drew. She has
a history of dating criminal. She has a history of dating child molesters.
Clearly, she is dating this guy, the same guy that molested her little 8-year-old girl and she is in denial. I do not believe for a second that
she actually believes these allegations. I think she has shown herself to be an unfit mother and all of her children need to be taken away from her.
Then she could go, you know, canoodle with this sex offender.
PINSKY: Anna, how do you feel about that? Is that too harsh?
CARDWELL: Now, thinking back, and I think honestly, child services should step in and get some more information.
PINSKY: At least get more information.
CARDWELL: Yes. Give more information at all. I also think mama should honestly take a lie detector test.
PINSKY: Is your mom open to treatment or any interventions from professionals?
CARDWELL: I do not honestly. My mom and I, she probably will not do it because she is going to stick to her story and that is where she is
going to stay, that she has never seen him and that she do not need anything.
PINSKY: And, Karamo, you said Anna`s grandmother ought to step in, Sandra. Although, June has said that -- that we have learned that Mama
June -- Anna corroborate this with me or support me or tell me whether this is accurate or not. That your mom, Mama June`s mom was pretty neglectful
herself. So, Karamo, I am not so sure that is the right thing to do.
BROWN: No. Not anymore with that new -- with the new information that she was neglectful herself. I do not think the grandmother would be
the person to get Alanna. But, you know, Anna, you could actually go to Child Protective Services and actually file a complaint and make a report
that would force them to start investigating your mother.
Because what is happening here is your mother, unfortunately, from my opinion, I though notice her, but she has some type of self-esteem issues
that is unfortunately harboring her judgment and making her not make the right decisions for you. You are her child and she should love you and be
there to support you.
PINSKY: I am fearful that she has had something happen to her. I have no idea.
BROWN: Exactly.
PINSKY: It is pure speculation, but that --
SEDAGHATFAR: But, she talked about the fact that she was sexually active when she was 13, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: 12.
PINSKY: 12 and that --
SCHACHER: With adult.
PINSKY: With an older man.
SEDAGHATFAR: With an older man.
PINSKY: That is sexual abuse, everybody.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is trauma.
PINSKY: That is trauma. That is what sexual abuse is. And, there is still might have been something prior to that if it was neglect or might
have been something else as well. All right, do we have time to play that one last tape Dr. Phil? I am going to bring that in the next segment.
Everybody, standby.
Next more with Anna Cardwell. And, Mama June apologized to Anna about what happened. Has she? We are going to find out if she did. And, later,
the young woman who says she is madly in love with guess who? Well, who would not love Charles Manson. And, she wants to marry him. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Honey Boo Boo`s mom, MamaJune, allegedly dated a man who reportedly raped her then-8-year-old daughter, Anna
`Chickadee` Cardwell, back in 2002.
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE REPORTER: TMZ obtained photos of Mama June with McDaniel in her bed. As you see here. The same man who raped her own
daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: She denied she is dating the sex offender.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: There are shocking new claims from Lee Thompson, known as Uncle Poodle that Honey Boo Boo may have slept in the
same bed as Mama June`s boyfriend, Mark McDaniel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: If in fact Mark is around, do you think Alana is in danger?
SANDRA HALE, MAMA JUNE`S MOTHER: Yes.
ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST OF MORNING EXPRESS: Well, Honey Boo Boo`s mom says that her number one priority is protecting her kids.
BARNETT: This is your child. You were put here on earth to protect that person and you are putting her in harm`s way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Emily, Wendy, and Honey Boo Boo`s sister, Anna `Chickadee` Cardwell. Anna`s mother had sat down with Dr. Phil.
Anna, of course, sharing her feelings with us about that interview exclusively.
Anna, may I ask you something. I have some Twitter action here with a couple people suggesting perhaps your mom and Uncle Poodle and Alana were
at the Harris Casino in Cherokee, North Carolina, near a ghost town. Does that sound about right?
CARDWELL: Yes.
PINSKY: That would be the Casino.
SCHACHER: Wow.
CARDWELL: I know they were somewhere near ghost town. I know that much.
PINSKY: OK. So, they are at that casino. So, people want to check that security footage.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: That should be proof enough for what you are saying, Anna. Now, Sam had a question about --
SCHACHER: I do. Yes.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SCHACHER: Hi, Anna. When you watched the interview, how did it make you feel when your mother told Dr. Phil that you lie?
CARDWELL: I was very frustrated. Because half the stuff that she said on there was all complete lie. Like almost all of it was a complete
lie. The stuff about the money, the stuff about she apologized to me many, many times.
She has not apologized to me but one time and I, basically, did not accept it and we have not -- we have talked on and off, but I mean she has
not apologized many, many times. She is not saying I am sorry, and I am so sorry. No, she has never said that.
And, the whole thing about money thing, she is not sending me money. She was supposed to send me, apparently, the last bit in my account, which
was kind of do not make up for what I have been through, the two years of doing filming. She sent me $15,400.
And, if you listen to her Dr. Drew interview, she said I have a cashier`s check right here that I sent to Anna. If you have a cashier`s
check in your purse, that means you have not sent it. And, she keeps telling me she has sent it. I have been waiting ten days for that check.
She said it is supposed to be here three to seven days.
PINSKY: Anna, let me push you a little bit. Do you lie?
CARDWELL: Do I lie?
PINSKY: Do you lie? Is she right? Do you lie?
CARDWELL: I do lie. I have lied before.
PINSKY: OK. Are you lying now?
CARDWELL: No.
PINSKY: Now, Anna has mentioned all along she wants an apology from Mama June. Phil asked her about that apology. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMA JUNE: I told Anna how sorry I am. We talk almost every day. I told her, look, I am going to give you your space. If you want to come
talk to me, I will always here. We have talked, you know, several times. She sent messages.
DR. PHIL: She feel betrayed.
MAMA JUNE: I know that. That is what she has told me.
DR. PHIL: Do you make that up to her? How do you fix that?
MAMA JUNE: The only way I can fix that is, you know, constantly apologize to her and just to be there for her through the situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. She said she constantly, this is the quote, "Constantly apologized." Does she?
CARDWELL: No. She has not apologized to me, but one time and I did not accept it because I know -- I know the truth. I know half the truth.
And, honestly, my mom has lied to me so many times in my life, I do not know what to believe that comes out of her mouth anymore. And, she is not
constantly apologized to me. At times she has texted me. It is always either about court or either about the situation going on, about money or
something --
PINSKY: Court? What is going on with court?
CARDWELL: There is no sorry in it.
PINSKY: What is going on with court?
CARDWELL: I went to a lawyer, because I, my personal self, went to a lawyer to get my contract from TLC, my money contract for my money that I
supposedly, that is gone. Completely gone now. And, my bank statements. And, mama thinks I am taking her to court and suing her, which I am not.
And, so, she took all my money away just because she thought I was suing her.
PINSKY: OK. I want to give my panel a chance to have that just a little bit. Emily, go ahead.
ROBERTS: Well, I have a question. When you were a little girl, when you were 8, did you go to your mom and did she believe you then? Did she
say sorry then to you? When all this happened?
CARDWELL: I did not talk to my mom. I did not tell my mom the situation until a couple weeks after it happened and that is after he went
to court. And, she, honestly, did not believe me. She said, "I hate you for this." "You are not my daughter, anymore. I am not going to talk to
you no more." And, she hung up the phone. And, she just do not believe that he did that to me.
PINSKY: Wendy, we hear that she never read the police report. We hear that Mama June says she did not know about this until Anna joined the
household at the beginning of the television reality series.
WALSH: Right.
PINSKY: What do you think, Wendy?
WALSH: The fact this mother`s need for acceptance by a man overrides her desire or her instinct to protect her children shows where the damage
is and the dysfunction. And, Anna, I think has every right to be enraged and incensed over this. This young girl has been traumatized, not only by
her mother`s boyfriend but by how her mother handled this.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: All right. I just hope this family has some source of healing, that they get some professional help. Anna, if your mom was to
call you and said, "Listen, honey. Let us get to a therapist`s office and try to heal this. Would you be willing to?
CARDWELL: I will if she actually does mean it.
PINSKY: OK.
CARDWELL: And, she will say it because I know she will not ever want to do that.
PINSKY: Well, at least you have put up, you are saying you would be willing to do it.
SCHACHER: You are putting it out there, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: You are putting it out there.
SCHACHER: You too, put it out there.
PINSKY: One half of the equation. So, we will see. Anna, as always, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. It is a wild
story and again, our hearts go out to really not just you but this whole family. We really need -- there is a lot of need for help here. OK. All
right --
CARDWELL: A lot of help.
PINSKY: Yes. I am afraid so, my dear. Next up, Charles Manson, getting married behind bars. Who is the young bride to be? You will hear
from her, there she is, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Mary Lynn, and Evy. Convicted killer, Charles Manson, 80 years old, serving a life sentence now engaged.
And, who is this lucky lady? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AFTON ELAINE "STAR" BURTON, CHARLES MANSON`S FIANCEE: I am Charles Manson`s wife. The paperwork has not gone through yet, but we already
consider each other to be husband and wife.
UNIDENTIFEID MALE REPORTER (1): The God-like leader of a twisted family that butcher people to provoke a so-called revolution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2): Charles Manson did not commit any of the murders, but he was convicted of orchestrating all seven.
BURTON: Charlie always tells the truth. No matter what.
CHARLES MANSON, CONVICTED MURDERER: You see, I live in the underworld. You live in the over world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He is received more mail than any other inmate in California history.
BURTON: Somehow I got half a brain that I can see that he is the one that knows what is going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow. And, this is still more of his ability, Sam, to have hold sway over young women.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Who is this woman?
SCHACHER: OK. So, her name is Star Burton, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Where are her parents?
SCHACHER: I know, right? And, he named her Star. Y
PINSKY: Oh, great.
SCHACHER: OK, so, she should know that. Now, she is 26. He is 80. She started writing him letters when she was 17. She moved to California
at 19, so, she could visit him in jail and she 100 percent believes he is innocent.
PINSKY: So, Mary Lynn, I was trying to figure out, what? I cannot get my head around this. I know a lot about human beings. I do not
understand this behavior. But, perhaps, you had a similar obsession. Maybe you can tell us what motivates this.
RAJSKUB: With men?
PINSKY: Well, with imprisoned men.
RAJSKUB: With hot imprisoned men. Well, the first thing I thought when I heard about this was he still got it.
PINSKY: I know, right?
RAJSKUB: And, then when I got the wedding invitation, I was thinking, I wonder if kids are invited. Then I immediately went on to the Crate and
Barrel to the registry and got them that new set of knives that they wanted and it is really cute napkin holders.
PINSKY: Too soon. Too soon. Evy, what is wrong with this woman?
POMPOURAS: Nothing is wrong with this woman. There are so many women like this. There are a lot of these people that --
PINSKY: There is something wrong with all of them.
POMPOURAS: There is a lot of groupies. These women attached themselves to these men. She does not believe he did it. She started
communicating with him when she was 17. So, there is this grooming process. She has absorbed him from a young age.
And, the other reason why according to the sources that I have read, she wants to marry him is because she believes he is innocent. She wants
to see certain documentation. And, then if she is married to him she will have that privilege, so that she can help prove he did not commit the
crime.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Oh, my gosh.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Anahita, you are laughing.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. She is going to do that.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, of course she is. She believes everything he said. He is innocent.
SEDAGHATFAR: She is able to do what millions of other lawyers through the years have not been able to do. I am quite sure of that.
PINSKY: Well, I will tell you why? That whenever -- if you were a woman and you are attracted to a man that has --
SCHACHER: A swastika tattooed?
PINSKY: Well, there is that, but I mean any sort of nefarious history. And, you think yourself, "Oh, I could understand the wounded
little boy." Any sense of special understanding that you think you have with somebody who have with somebody who has a behavior problem, turn and
run! Now, Anahita, my question to you is should he be allowed to get married? Given who he is and what he has done.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I guess it is legal for them to do it. It is not going to mean anything. But, I also question, what is it with these women
that are drawn and attracted to men in jail? I mean these men have groupies.
We saw this with the night stalker, Richard Ramirez. We saw with it Scott Peterson. We saw it with the Menendez Brothers. They literally have
women that want to marry them. They have gotten more marriage proposals than I have gotten, Dr. Drew. What is it about these women that they are
drawn to them?
PINSKY: OK. So, we what we have to figure out is what is wrong with Anahita.
SCHACHER: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: That is a better question.
SDAGHATFAR: Charles Manson has more marriage proposals, so what is wrong Anahita, come on. Evy, hold your thought. We are going to get to
you whatever is your comment after this quick break. We are going to have more on Charles Manson, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURTON: Why would I marry somebody --
Charlie is all about aqua, which is air, trees, water, animals. None of the T.V. shows have ever picked that up. I do not know why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Mary Lynn, and Evy. Look at that happy couple. We are talking about a 26-year-old woman who plans on
marrying 80-year-old Charles Manson. It would be bad enough with a 26- year-old to marry an 80-year-old, but that guy?
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And, Sam, you have interesting -- First of all, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: I want you to know, we are getting scores of marriage proposals for you.
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: Great.
PINSKY: So, good news. Good news.
SEDAGHATFAR: Great.
PINSKY: Are we going to put some up there, control room. Yes?
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, my God.
PINSKY: Here comes some up. There you go. "Anahita, will you please marry me? You look great tonight as usual. Please get your own show.
#anahitashow."
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes!
PINSKY: We are working on that.
SEDAGHATFAR: I will get back to you, David.
PINSKY: And, Sam, we have another Tweet that was interesting.
SCHACHER: Yes. We have another tweet from Rocky Jeter and he writes, or she, "There are couple in society that cannot get married but they are
letting a mass murderer get married? Ridiculous."
PINSKY: May Lynn, how about that?
RAJSKUB: I think it is going to be a great party, and yeah. Hey, message for her parents. You are not losing a daughter, you are gaining a
son-in-law.
PINSKY: If somebody tweeted me that the father was sort of, like, he is very him for his daughter, L.J. Wolf says, and the fact that she is
marrying Charles Manson.
SCHACHER: OK. See. I read something different where he did state that he supports her no matter what, it is her daughter. But, they are not
happy that she is marrying Charles Manson. But, in response into Mary Lynn, it is actually an intimate gathering, because only ten guests can
attend. So, it is exclusive.
PINSKY: So, Mary Lynn, you have been exclusive.
SCHACHER: I know. If you got an invite, there you go. And, then also the wedding is supposed to be next month. And, the person that pays
for the wedding is the one who is marrying the convict. So, she is paying for it. And, there is no conjugal visits.
PINSKY: So, why is she marrying?
SEDAGHATFAR: So, what is the point?
PINSKY: Evy, what is the point?
RAJSKUB: She is really good at creating his own family, though.
PINSKY: Good point. Good point.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: Evy, why is he has received more mail than any other inmate in the country. He attracts these women. They get preoccupied with him.
What do you expect that is all about?
POMPOURAS: Well, he is a pseudo celebrity, Dr. Drew. He seem mysterious and unique to these women. She has met him when she was young.
And it is almost like, when you see the interviews with her, it is like she is creating this fascination with him.
She has always spent a couple hours with him during the visits but she talks about him with this glowing look like she is in love. And, you are
thinking, you barely know this man.
PINSKY: Yes. It is love addiction. They idealize -- Remember I said, you think you have a special relationship with someone, only you
understands him. That is the idealization of something that can be understood as love addiction. Go read about it.
The materials are all replete with helping you understand why that happens. And, when a guy is contained, they are also not dangerous if you
are used to be attracted to abusers. I am just saying. I do not know anything about this woman.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: But, DVRs, please. "Forensic Files" up next.
END
