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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

New York Police Step Up Security; Responses to Terror Attack in Jerusalem; Interview with Mark Regev

Aired November 18, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: For ways you can help, please visit cnn.com/impact.

That's it for us. Stay warm out there. Ashleigh Banfield's next.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. This is LEGAL VIEW.

And we're going to begin this hour with some new fallout from a deadly attack on Americans in Jerusalem. Police here in New York are now stepping up security at synagogues and, quote, "other key locations" in light of this morning's brazen attack of butchery thousands of miles away. Three American-born rabbis and a British-born rabbi were killed when two Palestinian cousins, who were armed with meat cleavers, knives and a handgun, burst into a Jerusalem synagogue in the middle of morning prayers. Several other people were also hurt before the police eventually shot those two attackers dead.

Before I show you some of the video from inside that synagogue, you should know that it is graphic and it is not for children. If you don't want to see it, please look away for the next few seconds, but it is evidence of just how brutal this attack really was.

Since Americans were killed, the FBI is now joining the investigation which began with Israeli police making several arrests in the attackers' east Jerusalem neighborhood. For his part, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is vowing to respond with, quote, "a heavy hand." He's expected to make a statement live in front of the cameras at the bottom of the hour. And, of course, we will be bringing you that news conference just as soon as it gets underway.

In the meantime, I want to bring in my CNN colleagues, Ben Wedeman, CNN's Deb Feyerick is joining me here live in New York, and Joe Johns is live at the White House.

Ben, first to you. This heavy-handed remark, are we getting any more indication on exactly what that is going to mean?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the prime minister will be speaking within the next half hour. But we've already seen a statement from the prime minister's office indicating that Israel will demolish the homes of these two Palestinian cousins in their 20s from the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Jabel Mukaber. So that seems to be one of the measures they're going to be taking to try to deter possible attackers in the future.

Now, this is a tactic that the Israelis have used in the past. In fact, it goes back to the days of the British mandate before the state of Israel was created. So that's one of the steps. But it's important to keep in mind that these attackers didn't come from the West Bank, they didn't come from Gaza. Nobody is making any direct link between them and, for instance, Hamas.

And, of course, east Jerusalem is completely under Israeli control. So there's only so much the Israeli authorities can do in retaliation for this brutal attack that took place this morning.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Ben, there's already, you know, claims from relatives of these assailants that, I think, somewhere along the lines of 13 different family members ranging from sisters to parents of these attackers have been arrested in that (ph) neighborhood. But at this point, is anyone being definitive about claiming the responsibility and saying, we did it and this is why?

WEDEMAN: The only group that seems to be doing it - and, for instance, Hamas has not claimed responsibility. It expressed support for the attack, but didn't claim responsibility. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the PFLP, a Marxist organization, did issue a statement that some have interpreted as being a claim of responsibility. But our understanding is that no one in the families, the extended families of these two Palestinians who were killed this morning by the Israeli police after the attack has indicated that they had any sort of political affiliation.

And that seems to be another one of the problem here, Ashleigh, is that many of these attacks, which have been taking place within the last few weeks in and around Jerusalem, are being done by people with no clear political affiliation, which makes it much harder, for instance, for Israeli intelligence services, which are keeping a very close eye on Palestinian residents of Jerusalem and the West Bank, to really be able to trace any of their activities. So it's quite a challenge for them to try to trace, follow, prevent any of these attacks.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in Deb Feyerick. Ben, if you could stand by for a moment.

Deb, is there any suggestion that there is a specific need to beef up the security at synagogues and other places around New York City?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you can imagine, the NYPD, along with police departments all across the country, are now looking at these attacks very, very closely really because of their simplicity. This was a breach into a synagogue. A synagogue is considered high-value targets. While there's no known or specific threat, what they are concerned about is this copycat aspect. Remember, New York was the target of a hatchet attack just a month ago and so initially it was a question as to whether that was terrorism. It was ultimately ruled that it was terrorism. But they are very concerned. So while there's no specific threat, they are beefing up security as a standard operating procedure because they just want to make sure that they sort of, you know, tighten the perimeter around not only synagogues but also symbolically high-value targets as well.

BANFIELD: Ah, that was my next question, what are the other symbolically high-value targets?

FEYERICK: Anywhere where a terrorist could gain access and also create a good deal, really, of propaganda and publicity for this kind of an attack.

BANFIELD: Times Square?

FEYERICK: So it might be Times Square.

BANFIELD: The Brooklyn Bridge?

FEYERICK: It might be a tourist area, the Brooklyn Bridge, anywhere where you have high volumes of people where they can make that statement that they are here and they are living amongst you.

BANFIELD: If I could bring in Joe Johns at the White House. I know the president has made some comments. What more are we hearing from the administration about this?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, as you might expect, the president condemned these attacks. He called them horrific. He said, there could be no justification. We got a chance to see the president very briefly at the beginning of a meeting with his team to deal with the Ebola crisis. This is part of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know that two attackers senselessly and brutally attacked innocent worshippers in a synagogue during their morning prayers. Obviously we condemn in the strongest terms these attacks. A number of people were wounded and four people were killed, including three American citizens. So this is a tragedy for both nations, Israel as well as the United States. And our hearts go out to the families who obviously are undergoing enormous grief right now.

Secretary Kerry has spoken to Prime Minister Netanyahu. President Abbas has strongly condemned the attacks. Tragically, this is not the first loss of life that we have seen in recent months. Too many Israelis have died and too many Palestinians have died. And at this difficult time, I think it's important for both Palestinians and Israelis to try to work together to lower tensions and to reject violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Also pointing out there at the end of that brief statement to reporters that there is a great importance of isolating extremists and I think just underscoring what he said there at the end, the majority of Israelis and Palestinians want peace.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Joe Johns live for us at the White House. Thank you for that. Deb Feyerick as well in New York and Ben Wedeman, thank you to all three of you. We are expecting to hear from the Israeli prime minister himself, Benjamin Netanyahu. He's going to take to the mikes at 12:30 Eastern Time. We're going to bring that to you just as soon as he begins to speak. So stay tuned for that.

And also coming up, we're going to talk more about this horrific attack. We're going to take you to Israel and actually speak with a spokesman from the government, exactly what it means when they say a heavy-handed response is in the offings. When and how. That's after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Our top story this hour, a horrific terror attack on a Jerusalem synagogue that killed three rabbis from the United States and one from Britain during morning prayers. President Obama has already come out and condemned that attack. And in just a few minutes, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is also scheduled to make a public statement. That's scheduled for 12:30 Eastern Time. And, of course, CNN's going to bring that live to you exactly when it happens.

In the meantime, I'm joined now by Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev, who joins us from Jerusalem.

Thank you so much, Mr. Regev, for being with me. The comments that we have already heard in advance of the prime minister's public address is that there will be a heavy-handed response to this terror attack. Can you give me some more clarity on what that means on top and above the arrests of family members of these attackers and razing of their homes?

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Well, we are beefing up the police presence in Jerusalem. We are beefing up the security presence in the capital. The goal is to make sure that there aren't copycat attacks. You know, sometimes when you get these sort of deadly terrorist attacks, there are other extremists out there who, for want of a better word, seek inspiration. And so we've got to make sure that that police presence can deter any such attack. And that's important.

We'll also be taking other steps. But ultimately what we're facing is a formidable foe. These Islamist extremists who use butcher knives to kill, not unlike ISIS in Iraq and Syria who use the same weapon of choice when they execute innocent civilians. And the truth is, Hamas, who's praised this attack, shares a lot of the playbook with ISIS. They're two extremist organizations who believe in this sort of radical Islamist fanatical ideology and they are the enemies of the United States and of Israel. BANFIELD: So when you say that there will be beefed-up police

presence, you know, here in America, that means we'll see more police on the streets. But we don't see the kinds of things that we saw this summer with the bombing campaign in Gaza. Are we to expect that there will be a redux, that we will see something akin to what we saw this summer where roughly 2,000 Palestinians were killed alongside, I think, 67 or so Israelis? Is that what's coming?

REGEV: No. We will protect ourselves against these terrorists. And I think we're talking about fundamentally acting to protect the threat that there is in Jerusalem. We're not interested in escalation. On the contrary, we want to calm things down as quickly as possible so people in Jerusalem, all people in Jerusalem, people of all communities can enjoy peace and quiet again. And that's the problem because (INAUDIBLE) -

BANFIELD: So I'm hearing -- I'm hearing mixed messages. I'm so sorry. I'm just hearing mixed messages. We're going to have a heavy-handed reaction to this and we're going to try to calm things down. Those are not synergistic with one another, those comments?

REGEV: No, on the contrary, we're going to be tough with the terrorists, with the people who do these attacks and we've got a police presence to make sure that things remain quiet in Jerusalem and that people are protected, that there is safety. There's no contradiction. In order to achieve these -- to ensure calm, you've got to act forcibly against the extremists. Ultimately that I think is what the U.S. government would do to protect its people if faced by a similar terror threat. Ultimately no --

BANFIELD: So if I'm understanding you - if I'm understanding you, Mr. Regev, then perhaps a more targeted approach to those who are responsible is what you are saying, although here we have two men, they've been identified. Do we know who paid them? Do we know who organized them? Do we know ultimately who the head of the snake is? Is that where you're headed? Or, conversely, are you more concerned that there are more lone wolves out there who will be doing these kinds of things without the auspices of a head of a snake?

REGEV: I think the truth is a bit of both. We are concerned about organized terror attacks by extremists. I mean this isn't just happening in Israel and Jerusalem, this is happening across the Middle East. We see Islamic extremism unfortunately committing terrible atrocities in Syria, in Iraq, in Libya, in Yemen. So it's part of a regional problem that I think all moderates, all people in the free world, Israelis and Americans, we have to unite in combatting this threat.

And at the same time there's the issue of incitement where you have Islamists and unfortunately also the mainstream Palestinian leadership encouraging a culture of violence and confrontation with the most outrageous radical rhetoric which only encourages this sort of lone wolf. And it's crucial, I think, that the international community say to the Palestinian leadership, that if you say that you're a partner in peace, if you say that you're a responsible leadership, you have to totally disassociate yourself from this sort of extremism. President Abbas has a political pact with Hamas, the same organization that praised today's brutal murders, the massacre in the synagogue. He can't say he wants peace and still be in a pact with these extremists. It doesn't work.

BANFIELD: So to that end, President Abbas came out fairly quickly with a condemnation. I'll read it to you. It is stark and it is very black and white. It says, "we condemn the killing of civilians from any side. We condemn the killing of worshippers at the synagogue in Jerusalem and condemn acts of violence, no matter their source." And I just want to add onto that what President Obama said earlier today. "At this sensitive moment, it is all the more important for Israeli and Palestinian leaders and ordinary citizens to work cooperatively together to lower tensions, reject violence and seek a path forward towards peace." What kind of reconciliation effort will we see that is perhaps parallel to whatever this heavy-handed response will be?

REGEV: Israel wants peace. We want dialogue with our Palestinian neighbors. We're ready for live and let live for two states, for two peoples. Where a secure Israel is recognized by our Palestinian neighbors. We want all that. But it has to be understood, Ashleigh, that the same extremists who did today's attack in Jerusalem, like the extremists of ISIS who cut off the heads of Americans, they're not interested in peace and reconciliation. We cannot ignore the threat that they pose.

And I want to be very clear, these people are the enemies not just of Israel and America. These people are the enemies of everyone who wants to see peace and reconciliation. And it's crucial that if we want to see peace, we want to see reconciliation, that first we defeat the extremists. And part of that is for moderate Palestinians to finally stand up to the plate and disassociate themselves from these extremists. It's crucial.

BANFIELD: How are people in Israel reacting? I know it's only been hours, really, to sort of take in the devastation of the nature of this attack. How are people reacting? How do people feel about this?

REGEV: I think people have been horrified. I mean these are rabbis who were doing their early morning prayers. Who were they hurting? Why would anyone attack someone in a spiritual moment? It's really obscene. And the fact that we've seen Hamas and other people rejoice in this is simply terrible. I'd also say and it needs to be said, as much as President Abbas offered his condemnation after being pressed by Secretary Kerry to do so, his own Fatah movement, the movement that he's chairman of, the political party that he heads, put out statements justifying and celebrating the attack. So it's time Palestinian society took a good look at itself.

I think all people of goodwill, people with basic human decency, have to unite in condemn what we saw this morning in Jerusalem. There can be no justification. There can be no ifs or buts. It's not a question of relativism. A complete condemnation is necessary and it's time that Palestinian leadership had a look in the mirror and thought, what are we doing wrong? And it's clear they have to change their behavior.

BANFIELD: Mr. Regev, I - you know, our thoughts and prayers go out to all of our fellow citizens and - I mean it's just such a tragic and awful story to see unfold. And just so sad to think there doesn't seem to feel like much of an end anytime in the near future. My best to you and to those who are working on that pathway to peace. Mr. Regev, thank you.

REGEV: Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: And we, again, I want to just remind you, are expecting to hear from the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, shortly. Don't know exactly what he's going to say, whether he will outline exactly what the response to this will be, but that's coming up in just about nine minutes or so. A quick break. Back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: At any moment now we are expecting to hear from the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. And we're expecting him to speak of this morning's terror attack in Jerusalem. That city's deadliest attack in more than six years. Four rabbis were killed while they and several other people were praying at a synagogue. Three of the dead were American immigrants. The fourth was born in Britain. The attackers were two Palestinian cousins who were shot dead by the police.

Joining me here in New York this hour is author, attorney and scholar Alan Dershowitz, who latest book is "Terror Tunnels: The Case for Israel's Just War Against Hamas."

I'm sure that you've been listening intently to a lot of the details. What our viewers might not know about you is that you have a personal connection to what happened. You were quite close to the father of one of the victims this morning.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: He was my colleague, Professor Torski (ph), at Harvard for many years. And the victim's mother was the teacher of my children. And the victim's grandfather was one of the greatest rabbis in modern Jewish history, Rabbi Solavachek (ph). And the man who was killed today was a man of peace, a scholar, somebody who was not really involved in politics. He just loved learning. And he was essentially targeted for beheading because that's what they did, they came in with axes trying to emulate what ISIS has been doing. So it's a terrible, terrible tragedy.

BANFIELD: We don't have confirmation exactly on that detail at CNN. We don't know that that specifically -- we know that the scene afterwards was absolutely brutal.

DERSHOWITZ: Uh-huh. Yes.

BANFIELD: And awful. But we don't know specifically that.

Is there something about this attack, specifically because there were Americans involved, specifically because these were men of peace at prayer in a synagogue, a holy place, that will be any kind of turning point in what seems to be a battle with so many turning points? DERSHOWITZ: Yes, it could be, because it turns what has been a

political conflict into a religious conflict. And it's much harder to resolve religious conflicts because religious people tend to think in terms of extremes. Hamas is a religious organization whose goal is the destruction of the nation state of the Jewish people. It's very hard to compromise that. And this is a religious attack on a religious institution.

BANFIELD: But how can you separate religion from political when it comes to the Middle East? It is almost invariably been Muslims against Jews almost.

DERSHOWITZ: But Israel is a secular state. And its military actions will have been based on military considerations and political considerations. I never attacks mosques. It never attacks religious places. It never attacks Islam.

BANFIELD: Secular state by name, but it is not a secular state by creation.

DERSHOWITZ: No, it is. In fact, all the founders of Israel were atheists. Hertzel (ph), Bengorian (ph), they were not religious people. They wanted to keep the rabbis out of the temples.

BANFIELD: Even those who lead it call it the Jewish state. We can't separate these.

DERSHOWITZ: The nation state of the Jewish people. That's an ethnic identity. It's not necessarily a religious identity. And Israel is a more secular state than the United States. There's a higher level of secularism there than there is in the United States. So --

BANFIELD: Do you see something changing - look, you wrote the book "Terror Tunnels." We've watched these battles play out. We've seen organized attacks on discos and restaurants and public squares. We've seen the razing of houses of those attackers, the arrests of families. Even today, the claim is that 13 family members from mothers and brothers and sisters of these two attackers have been arrested and taken off, their homes have been flattened.

DERSHOWITZ: Not yet, but they're planned. Just planned (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: It feels like there's no end. And now we're starting to see potentially that this could be more lone wolf than organizational.

DERSHOWITZ: Well, it's never lone wolf in the sense that you read the statements made by Abbas and by Hamas and you see that there are incitements there. When Abbas -

BANFIELD: Well, Abbas said he was condemning it without -

DERSHOWITZ: That was fine -

BANFIELD: Yes.

DERSHOWITZ: But he wrote a letter of consolation to the man who previously murdered an Israeli in a similar area and he wrote a letter to the family. And they named parks after their terrorists and murders. Israel, on the other hand, always condemns individuals who make attacks on individual Palestinians. So there's no moral equation or symmetry there.

BANFIELD: And then ultimately when you're looking - and I think Americans can really identify with this, having been involved in a war on terror for 13 years. It is still a war. It is not just crimes. Effectively there's a philosophical war going on and soldiers come in all forms.

DERSHOWITZ: No (ph).

BANFIELD: And when you have mandatory conscription and service in Israel, effectively the Palestinians will say it's war against everyone because everyone's a soldier.

DERSHOWITZ: Well, that's just racism and bigotry to say that everyone is a soldier. Ah --

BANFIELD: But everybody is.

DERSHOWITZ: No, not everybody is. First of all, number one. Number two, they're not soldiers at the time. The law (INAUDIBLE) is very clear, you can't kill a two-year-old child claiming he's going to be a soldier because then Israel could say, we can kill a two-year-old Palestinian because he'll grow up and be a terrorist. You have to have rules of warfare. And rules of warfare forbid the deliberate killing of civilians. And this was a deliberate killing of civilians in a synagogue.

BANFIELD: We're still waiting on the prime minister. And you know well that he's due any minute, within, I think, about a minute and a half or so to come out and address this publicly. The microphones are at the ready. And you can just imagine the falinks (ph) of journalists who are awaiting his response to this. He had said a few things. Specifically there will be a heavy-handed attack. But at this point, do you suspect -- Mark Regev was not going to go so far as to say that we will see a repeat of what we saw this summer in the West Bank -

DERSHOWITZ: Oh, no, we won't see that.

BANFIELD: But do you suspect that we'll see something along that line when you hear the term heavy-handed?

DERSHOWITZ: No. No, I don't think we'll see that at all. I think we'll see the prime minister put the blame squarely where it belongs, on Palestinian leaders who incite this kind of violence. And he's going to say he will hold responsible Palestinian leaders, whether they're from Hamas or from the Palestinian Authority. And he's right to do that.

Now, how you hold him responsible is very different. Right now you need to have a meeting between the king of Jordan, Abbas and Netanyahu, to de-escalate and make not religious the conflict and de- escalate what's going on, on the mountaintop, which is holy to all three faiths.

BANFIELD: Do you support what President Obama said this morning, urging cooperation between leaders --

DERSHOWITZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: As opposed to zeroing in and targeting leaders for what they've said, letters they've written, things they've said in the past?

DERSHOWITZ: You have to do a little of both. As Prime Minister Rabin once said, you seek peace as if there's no terrorism and you fight terrorism as if there's no peace process.