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Ferguson Decision Nears?; President Obama to Announce Immigration Changes; Bill Cosby Under Fire

Aired November 19, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, that would be an example of -- of common ground that could be found in a way that sort of highlights how the president's policy priorities do, at least in some areas, overlap with policy priorities that Republicans have identified as well.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) any of those policy priorities that the president communicated to Republicans that hadn't existed before the election.

So, the things that you mentioned the (OFF-MIKE) for instance, are things that, even though Harry Reid, for instance, doesn't support, that the president has for a long time now. And I'm wondering if, after the election, there's been any change of policies or areas of compromise that the president has offered to Republicans that we haven't heard before the election.

EARNEST: You know, I think, Justin, I will answer that in a couple of ways.

The first is, I think before the election there were some pretty obvious areas of common ground that could be seized that haven't been. So, in some ways, we don't have to go looking for new things. There are a bunch of things that are on the table that both sides support they haven't been able to make progress on.

A couple of examples beyond the trade example that I just cited, the president nearly two years ago now laid out a pretty commonsense proposal for investing in early childhood education. This is something that very conservative governors across the country, Republican governors, had implemented in their states to great effect.

Now, again, these are Republican governors that don't have a lot of to say that is very nice to say about the president, I assume. Certainly, there's not a lot of policy agreement. But there is a policy agreement on this issue, that early investments in early childhood education can have a profound impact on the life of a child and has -- there's a strong correlation between participation in a high-quality early childhood education program and lower rates when it comes to things like illiteracy or jail time or teen pregnancy.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that's Josh Earnest, the White House spokesperson, talking about the president's plan.

Of course, the president tomorrow night expected to come out and announce executive action on immigration, and tonight he will be meeting with Democrats to talk about what they need to do in order to get on the same page. Of course, Republicans are vowing to fight all of this tooth and nail.

I'm joined now by CNN's Jake Tapper. He's of course the anchor of "THE LEAD," Juan Carlos Lopez, senior Washington correspondent for CNN Espanol, and also Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst. Brian Stelter is here with me as well. He's the host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

So, Jake, let's start with you. Doesn't look like anybody has reached any consensus. This is going to be a fight.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It is going to be a fight, although I have talked to some Republicans on Capitol Hill who instead of saying that this is going to poison the well for all bipartisanship for the rest of the two years remaining in President Obama's term, that this will poison the well when it comes to immigration, but there are still going to be other areas where there can be some bipartisan cooperation.

That's at least a step towards cooperation from some of the other language we have heard from Republican leaders. We heard Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, say this is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. We have heard John Boehner, speaker of the House, say careful, when you play with matches, you might get burned.

I do think this is going to be very difficult in terms of creating a bipartisan atmosphere, but that is at least a little calmer than I have heard from Republicans in the past.

LEMON: Juan Carlos Lopez, is the president really in a -- he is in a tough situation here because it's a lot like the Affordable Care Act. Some people wanted single payer. A lot of the criticism is that it didn't go far enough and of course Republicans didn't want it at all. Is that a similar situation and a fair comparison when it comes to immigration reform and whether it's comprehensive enough?

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: I think people who are expecting something know that comprehensive immigration reform isn't going to happen any time soon.

Just getting this by executive action is more than many expected. It will be a relief to millions of people who are right now living in the country working without their documents and having this option is better than not having it. Now, Don, there is precedent. We do have people who are under special protected status. That doesn't give them legal residency and it doesn't put them on a path to citizenship, but lets them work in the country and lets them move around.

It's called temporary protection status. Eight countries are covered by this. People from Honduras had it since 1999. It's renewed every two years. We have deferred action. We have had it and it's now being renewed for at least 600,000 young students.

This is something that has been done in the past. It's temporary. It's not permanent. It's not what everyone wants, but it's more than what they expected to get.

LEMON: The White House releasing this video of the president. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tomorrow night, I'm going to be announcing here from the White House some steps that I can take to start fixing our broken immigration system.

And then on Friday, I'm going to be traveling to Del Sol High School in Las Vegas, where two years ago I laid out the principles for comprehensive immigration reform.

Everybody agrees that our immigration system is broken. Unfortunately, Washington has allowed the problem to fester for too long. And so what I'm going lay out is the things that I can do with my lawful authority as president to make the system work better, even as I continue to work with Congress and encourage them to get a bipartisan comprehensive bill that can solve the entire problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Gloria, clearly, by going on television with this, he's appealing directly to the American people. How much convincing can he do and will it make a difference in Washington?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, people who are opposed to immigration reform, this isn't going to change their mind. I think what the president is starting to do is really kind of a public education program, if you will, because he knows that he's going to be in a fight with the Republican Congress over this.

And I think the big question looming out there right now is how the Republicans decide to react to this in their lame-duck session. On the extreme, there are some who say, OK, let's let this lead to a government shutdown, for example, by refusing to fund the departments that would need money to make this happen.

There are others, including the leadership of the Republicans in the Congress, who say, look, maybe there's a way to carve out funding for this and say we won't approve that, but we will approve the rest of the spending bill, because we don't want the first act that we have in this lame-duck Congress to be shutting the government down, that that wouldn't bode well for Republican control of the Congress.

So the president is making his point that he's waited a year-and-a- half for this, at the very least, if not his entire administration. Republicans are going to say, you know what? We want to do something in the new Congress and they got to sort of figure out how they react to this without looking like they're opposed to any kind of immigration reform whatsoever, which they say they're not opposed to.

For example, they want to strengthen the borders and they may want to give some kind of visa for education for people who are getting their educations here. So I think the next move is up to the Republicans. LEMON: Let's turn to Brian Stelter now, because, Brian, as I

understand, you are actually quite surprised that he's speaking in front of the American people going prime time, but you also have some news about the networks.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Most of the addresses we have seen from the president, these prime-time speeches, have been about foreign policy in the past couple of years, topics like ISIS and Syria.

This, of course, a very different topic that he's going to be addressing the public on. But he's not quite going all the way. What I mean by that is, I'm told the White House did not request time from the big broadcast networks. NBC, ABC and CBS will not be airing the speech tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Of course, CNN and the cable news channels will be airing it.

It makes you think about who his audience really is. Maybe he's not trying to persuade the masses. Maybe he's trying to speak to a more niche audience, Republicans that Gloria is describing, for example, and just trying to frame the debate on his own terms.

LEMON: All right, thank you. I appreciate, everyone.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Go ahead quickly, Jake.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I was just the say, one of the channels that will be airing it will be Univision tomorrow, which I think is also the Latin Grammys. And that's an audience that President Obama definitely wants to reach.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All right, Jake Tapper, Juan Carlos Lopez, Gloria Borger and Brian Stelter, thank to all of you.

Breaking news on a story that has much of the nation watching and waiting, Ferguson. We're getting word on when the grand jury may announce its decision on whether to indict officer Darren Wilson for the shooting death of Michael Brown.

Let me go straight to CNN's justice reporter, Evan Perez. He's in Ferguson.

Evan, what do you know?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don.

We're hearing that the prosecutors here in Saint Louis County are bringing back the grand jury on Friday for them to listen to some more evidence before they begin deliberations and possibly make a decision on whether to indict officer Darren Wilson in the shooting of Michael Brown.

Now, if a decision comes on Friday, the announcement could be made public on Sunday. The officials here want to give 48 hours' notice to law enforcement to get ready in case of any issues. Obviously, as you know, Don, there's concern about some of the public protests that might come following an announcement in this case.

LEMON: So the details that you're learning about the prosecutors, the way they plan to handle this announcement when it comes is that they're going to make an announcement that they will have an announcement in 48 hours. How will this be handled?

PEREZ: Well, first, what they want to do is they want to get everybody prepared and obviously give the family some notice as well, the Brown family, about what is about to happen, and then give everybody here a chance to get ready for any public demonstrations and so on that might happen on Sunday.

They also are planning to release the deliberation, the evidence that's been presented to the grand jury at the same time, Don. That's going to be an interesting thing, because there's been some debate here among officials as to whether or not they need to redact the names of witnesses.

As you know, Don, there are some people who have given a lot of interviews to the media and then when they went behind here to provide testimony under oath might have said things that are a little bit different. So the question is, how do you protect those people from any risks that they might face when the decision becomes public?

LEMON: Evan Perez, thank you very much. My legal panel will weigh in on this.

Plus, more on our breaking news involving Bill Cosby, NBC pulling the plug on plans for a sitcom with the comedian. That's just ahead here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I'm back now with our breaking news here on CNN.

We're talking about the grand jury in Ferguson. Here's information that's directly from CNN's Evan Perez. He said the grand jurors are hearing evidence on the Michael Brown shooting and are preparing to meet on Friday for what may be their final session with a decision on whether to charge officer Darren Wilson possible same day. It could happen the same day. That's according to law enforcement officials briefed on the plans.

They also say they are preparing to -- Saint Louis prosecutors preparing to present more evidence to jurors before starting deliberations and a decision on indictment is expected soon after, again, according to the law enforcement official.

I want to bring in my attorneys here, my legal analysts here, Sunny Hostin and also Mark Geragos. Sunny, what do you make out of the new information we're hearing

coming out of Ferguson?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I have to say, this is just so bizarre, Don, and that is because grand jury proceedings are generally secret. We never really know what's going on in front of a grand jury. It's surprising that we're not only learning about the grand jurors, the composition of the grand jury, and we're now also learning that they are going to meet again on Friday, that they may be hearing some sort of evidence.

We don't know if that's testimony. We don't know if maybe it's some sort of other evidence. And that they could make a decision on the same day. I have got to tell you -- I'm very curious as to what Mark Geragos thinks. Given the volume of evidence in front of this grand jury, I would be very surprised that if they could if just given a case on Friday come back with a decision that same day.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: But, again, this has been such an unusual process that it's hard to go with what we generally see in these kinds of matters.

LEMON: Mark, you can speak to that. But also does it say anything that they are meeting and looking at more evidence now because they said that a decision was imminent and now we're hearing they are waiting, they are going to see more evidence?

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's always hard to figure out what a grand jury is doing, because it's supposed to be cloaked in secrecy.

But it's entirely possible that if the prosecutor finished their presentation of evidence that the grand jurors then had questions and theoretically the grand jury is supposed to be directing this and the prosecutor is kind of their help mate. Unfortunately, that's usually not the case.

But the grand jurors themselves could say we want to hear from X, we want to hear from Y and we want to see this, we want to see that. They do have the ability and when this was first structured, the grand jury was supposed to be an independent body, as opposed to what it is now, which is a rubber stamp for the prosecution. They could be the ones who are driving the questions and asking for more evidence.

And I would agree with Sunny. If they just got -- if they are still hearing evidence in something that's as highly charged as this, I would be very, very surprised if they came back immediately with a decision.

HOSTIN: I think what's interesting to Mark's point is we do know that the grand jury appears to be a very active grand jury, because they asked to hear from Dr. Michael Baden, the doctor that performed the autopsy for Michael Brown on behalf of the Michael Brown family.

And that in and of itself tells me, my goodness, either they are watching media reports or they are just so clued into this case that they are asking for everything. And I think that's how it should be if this is the...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Sunny, Mark brings up a good point, because everyone said the grand jury will do whatever the prosecutor says. It's a rubber stamp for the prosecution. But again if they are looking for more information, they could indeed be driving this and it may not be what everyone thinks it's going to be. Sunny?

HOSTIN: Yes. I mean, I think that...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Everyone thinks because of the leaks and information that's coming out that there's not going to be an indictment. But we don't know that.

HOSTIN: Right, because of the initial leaks. Right? It seemed that most of the initial leaks were very supportive of officer Wilson, were very supportive of his version of events. We have never really heard from him. But we have heard leaks that would support what his version of events would be.

And I think that because of the way that the governor has handled this, just yesterday, he's calling for the National Guard and sort of a re-upping of the military position or stance that Missouri has taken, many people felt that he must already know that this is not going to return in an indictment. But you're right. Perhaps we will see an indictment.

LEMON: Mark, does this give you any indication that this may not be an open-and-shut case, there may be an indictment here?

GERAGOS: Look, the idea that somehow the governor thinks he can call this in advance I think is somewhat ludicrous.

If you have got a grand jury that knows -- and they obviously do -- that the spotlight, the national spotlight is on them, those grand jurors are in there, and like petit jurors who sit in jury cases where they are hearing evidence, they take that role very seriously. Normally, it's become unfortunately a rubber stamp for the prosecution.

But here in this case because they know there is so much attention placed on this, I can't help but think that those grand jurors are taking this seriously. As Sunny says, calling in for defense M.E., medical examiner, is something that I can't imagine that is at the prosecutor's doing. I would imagine that that's some grand juror saying I have either seen this or I have heard about this and I want to hear from a different M.E., not just the one that originally testified and was presented to us.

I don't think there's any way to handicap this. Grand jurors go rogue. You hear about it occasionally where either they won't indict when a prosecutor asks them to do or in other instances they do indict in spite of a prosecutor asking for a no bill. (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Can I ask you something, Mark, before we run? Because Sunny said we have not heard his side of the story. Maybe the grand jury or some of the grand jurors or jurists -- is it jurors or jurists?

HOSTIN: Jurors.

LEMON: Jurors. Maybe they are watching media reports. Would it help if Darren Wilson came out and told his side of the story, if we heard something from Darren Wilson?

HOSTIN: He did speak to the grand jury, though.

LEMON: If we heard something publicly from him, if they're watching...

(CROSSTALK)

GERAGOS: He did. And I think that it's not a bad strategy in a case like this if you're defending the officer to have that officer do a little tour de force or media presentation because that's going to seep in.

Grand jurors, kind of like the U.S. Supreme Court, have their ears to what's going on in the community and I think in this case something where you do an unorthodox strategy makes sense.

LEMON: Yes, and it's because the story has been driven by cable and it's been driven by the Internet. And so it would be interesting to hear from the officer on any of those venues, as a matter of fact.

All right, guys, stick around.

We're following breaking news involving rape allegations against Bill Cosby. New accusers, a new denial and NBC just pulled the plug on his sitcom, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, welcome back, everyone.

Rape allegations taking a toll on Bill Cosby's career and his reputation. NBC just canceled plans to develop a sitcom starring the comedian. Netflix had already postponed his stand-up comedian special. And Cosby's lawyer is outright denying allegations by the highest-profile woman to come forward to accuse the comedian of rape.

You will recognize her. She's Janice Dickinson, the self-proclaimed world's first supermodel and star of a handful of TV reality shows. Dickinson described the alleged 1982 assault in an interview on "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE DICKINSON, SUPERMODEL: After dinner in my room, he had given me wine and a pill and the next morning I woke up and I wasn't wearing my pajamas, and I remember before I passed out that I had been sexually assaulted by this man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Here's what Cosby's lawyer says about Dickinson.

This is a quote. "The only story she gave 12 years ago to the media and in her autobiography was that she refused to sleep with Mr. Cosby and he blew her off. Documentary proof and Ms. Dickinson's own words show that her new story about something she now claims happens back in 1982 is a fabricated lie."

Dickinson's story is similar to that of a woman had sued and settled with Cosby. Andrea Constand took Cosby to court after going to authorities who were unable to prosecute the star.

Bruce Castor was a district attorney who handled the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE CASTOR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: We had a woman who by all outward appearances was credible and had a good job and had come to our county and had made these allegations that she had been sexually molested by Cosby.

The problem with the case was that she waited a year until she told police about it, and she told the police about it in her native Canada up in Ontario, I think. I thought that she was telling the truth. I didn't think that there was enough evidence based on her statements alone to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt.

I had a theory that Cosby had drugged the woman using something to make her sleepy and to make her defenseless or unable to recall what happened. I thought he was lying.

I thought that he was evasive, that he was setting up the defense that she was there of her own volition and that nothing had happened, but that if anything had happened -- now, granted, this is 10 years ago and I hadn't read that statement in all that time, but he was setting up that if anything had gone on, that it was consensual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's delve into this with two of our legal analysts, again former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin and defense attorney Mark Geragos.

So, Sunny, he said lying, evasive, he thinks he gave her something, drugged her to make her sleepy, but yet not enough evidence?

HOSTIN: Yes. And the thing is when you prosecute these kind of cases you have to understand -- and, Don, I say this over and over and over again all of the time, as you know. As a prosecutor, unfortunately, it's not necessarily what happened, it's what you can prove.

What I take away from his statement is he believed her. He believed her story.

LEMON: He said he did.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: He said he believed her. He just couldn't prove it. He found that Bill Cosby was evasive, that he was lying, that he was trying to set up a defense.

And I have to tell you, it's one thing when you have one voice. Those rape cases are still difficult if you don't have a rape kit, if you don't have forensic evidence. When you have two and three and four voices coming forward explaining in detail sort of the same thing happening, being drugged and given alcohol, that's a chorus of voices.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: That's significant. Is it enough to prove a criminal case? Maybe not. But is it enough to prove a civil case? We know that one of those civil cases was settled and we know that there are all these women out there.

The people that are tweeting me and that are saying that everybody is out to get Bill Cosby, let's face it, OK, 13 women who did not know each other have all come together somehow to conspire against 77-year- old Bill Cosby? That's ridiculous. I'm inclined to believe these women.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm glad you mentioned that, because it's stunning that there is a chorus of voices out there saying...

HOSTIN: It's not just one woman.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No, no, the women, but saying they don't -- that these women have something to gain from Bill Cosby. They don't believe it, even with what you say.

HOSTIN: Which is remarkable, because, again, the statute of limitations has run in all the cases. So, they can't prosecute him criminally.

LEMON: But, civilly, can they get anything?

HOSTIN: And, civilly, they can't get anything either.

So, what do these women have to gain, except for the people on Twitter and the people roaming around attacking the victim, attacking the credibility of the victim? And that's why, in my view, a lot of these victims don't go to the police. They don't come forward because they are fearful of what will happen.

LEMON: OK.