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At This Hour

Obama to Announce Executive Action on Immigration; McConnell Slams Obama's Immigration Plans; AP Releases Video of Cosby Refusing to Answer Allegations

Aired November 20, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it comes down to this. In just a few hours time, President Obama lays out his executive order on immigration. His plan could shield more than three million undocumented immigrants. Some members of Congress want to stop it, though. Is it already too late?

He didn't want this interview to go public, but it did, Bill Cosby's attempts to scuttle it, what was said ahead @THISHOUR.

The grand jury weighing the Michael brown shooting case in Ferguson, Missouri. A decision could come any day now, but what happens after they decide whether Officer Wilson will be charged?

Good morning to you. Those stories and much more ahead. John Berman is off somewhere, probably building a snowman.

We begin @THISHOUR away from a nationally televised president address that could change the lives of millions of people. @THISHOUR, President Obama is preparing to unveil the details of an executive order that he says will begin to mend the nation's broken immigration system.

The move could shield more than three million undocumented immigrants from deportation, but the speech set tonight for 8:00 Eastern also is certain to further strain an already tense political atmosphere, as the president gears up to go it alone on one of the most contentious issues in Washington.

Just a little more than an hour ago, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell blasted the president's decision to sidestep Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL (R), REPUBLICAN LEADER: The action he's proposed would ignore the law, would reject the voice of the voters, and would impose new unfairness on law-abiding immigrants, all without solving the problem. In fact, his action is more likely to make it even worse.

And just as with ObamaCare, the action the president is proposing isn't about solutions, it isn't about compassion. It seems to be about what a political party thinks would make for good politics. It seems to be about what a president thinks would be good for his legacy. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Our Michelle Kosinski is at the White House this morning. Good to have you with me, Michelle.

Interesting to hear those comments from Mitch McConnell. So we see that the president briefed Democrats last night on the plan. What are you getting a sense of or hearing about what may be in it, at least this final draft?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A few of these details have come out, including from people who had dinner with the president last night.

And so what they're saying is this offers two things, the chance for these people to stay in America without being deported, and the chance to continue to work here. And the people affected would likely be -- and this is what is expected, mind you -- parents of children who are already American citizens or have some legal status here, provided that those parents have been in America for a number of years. It's thought to be five years, is the parameter the president has set on that.

And it's also expected to expand the same kinds of allowances that the president granted back in 2012, to what are known as "Dreamers," people who were brought here illegally as children.

However, sources say it's not expected to include parents of those "Dreamers." So that's when you get into this pushback really from both sides some groups saying they wish the president's acting alone on this would be even bolder, that he would go even farther.

And then of course you have the other side, Republicans in Congress saying this goes way too far, Michaela.

PEREIRA: You know, it's really interesting how the president announced sort of some tidbits about the address tonight, posted it to the White House Facebook page.

I'm curious about your reaction, but I want to play a little bit for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So what I'm going to be laying out is the things that I can do with my lawful authority as president to make the system work better, even as I continue to work with Congress and encourage them to get a bipartisan comprehensive bill that can solve the entire problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Really unusual way, Michelle, for a president to announce a major speech.

KOSINSKI: Yeah. It was like an announcement for the announcement. And all of a sudden it pops up and we get an e-mail about it, but it was on Facebook. So I guess you had to be looking at your Facebook instead of reading your e-mails at work at that moment.

And there were questions about this asked of the White House yesterday. Was this some kind of nod to Zuckerberg, or why would you do it this way? Does the president love Facebook?

But the White House responded, saying that was a kind of novel way to reach a lot of people at once. They quoted a number being 1.2 million views in the first hour.

Of course others are saying, well, if you had announced it to the Associated Press or one of the television networks -- how about CNN -- wouldn't that have been even more viewers possibly in the first hour?

But they like it the way they like it, I guess, Michaela.

PEREIRA: They like it the way they like it, and maybe that will go down in history, the first time a major speech has been announced via a social media website.

KOSINKSI: Yes, it was very casual too.

PEREIRA: Very casual, absolutely.

KOSINSKI: Sitting on the table there. Maybe rolling up the sleeves.

PEREIRA: Very interesting. Very, very interesting.

Thanks so much for that. We'll be watching this with you.

It is a safe bet that most Republicans are going to slam the president's speech tonight, and obviously that most Democrats will praise it.

Here's more of what Mitch McConnell said just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: The American people clearly sent a message. Nobody missed it. They said they want to see us working together. They say they want to see more serious ideas pass through Congress.

What they didn't say they wanted to see was the president sidestepping the very representatives they just elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez is a Democrat and joins us now from Capitol Hill. A pleasure to have you with me @THISHOUR.

First of all, we know that you signed a petition earlier this year demanding the House vote on immigration reform. It didn't happen. We also know about half of Americans think the president should not go the executive route.

What's your opinion? Do you still believe he's making the right move here?

REPRESENTATIVE LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Absolutely. I have to tell the American people that for 30 years, we've been trying to fix a broken immigration system, and we haven't been able to do it. In particular, with this president over the last six years, we got down to brass tacks just a couple years ago.

The Senate passed something in a bipartisan way. Sent it over here. We augmented it with a bipartisan Homeland Security bill on security, and then the speaker refused to take it up for a vote. If we could take a vote on it, we would pass that bill today.

So the fact that the House Republicans will not allow a vote means they're not really serious about this, they don't want to see immigration reform.

So I say to the president, please, Mr. President, help our families. Our families who are being divided, divided because some of them are American citizens, some are residents, and they're mixed families. We need to keep them together. That is traditional family values.

PEREIRA: I want to get to some of those aspects that are affecting the constituents in your state in a moment, because I think that's a very important part of this conversation.

But I want to refer back to what we heard Mitch McConnell say just a few minutes ago, referring to the results of the midterm elections. We all know the results of that, saying that the president said before the midterms that his policies were on the ballot. He may not like the results, but has a duty to respect it.

What is your reaction to that?

SANCHEZ: Two years ago when the president won reelection, his policies were on the ballot also, but the Republicans didn't pay attention to that. All I've got to say is that, yes, Republicans picked up seats. They picked up seats where there are no real -- there's not a large amount of immigrant people.

They don't understand at times what we're talking about with respect to economy, with respect to family. I mean, these are people who live in my district, who are deacons at their church, they're PTA moms, they volunteer hospice and hospital. They are for all intents and purposes sewn into American way of life.

The last thing I want to see is another mother deported because she doesn't have papers and American citizens, children, young children be without their mom. And this is what the president is trying to fix.

PEREIRA: We know that there are some members of the GOP planning to try and stop this executive action before it's implemented.

I'm curious what your response is to those efforts, and what you're saying to some of your counterparts as you walk in the halls.

SANCHEZ: Well, you know, look, I work very well with the Republicans on the other side. One can look at my record. They can see the friendships that I have. Those of us who have been here a longer time in the Congress have come from an era where we did work with each other.

Some of the newer members on the other side don't want to work with anybody. It's their way. It's the only way. Ted Cruz, it's his way; it's the only way. He caused the government shutdown a year ago. They want to do it again.

If they want to do it again, my job is to go and talk to America. My job is to go out and tell them, let me tell you how these things really work. Let me tell you who is shutting down your government and why, and it's a small amount of people. It is not everybody over here in Washington, D.C.

PEREIRA: So let's talk a little bit about what's going on in your state, because you and I both well know the makeup of California, a beautiful state. It is also a state that has a large immigrant population, "Dreamers," children that are born here, their parents that are not.

What are you hearing from people in your state about what they'd like to see happen?

SANCHEZ: Well, certainly, people in California would like to see even more of these administrative changes happen. Not law changes, because Congress does the law, but administrative policies that have been in place that over time get changed by presidents. And that's what this president is going to do.

They'd like to see more amplification. They'd like to see our families stay together. Remember, California is the number one state with respect to population, we're the innovation state. We're the motor, the economic engine of America. And we're probably the state that has the largest amount of immigrants, both with the right working papers and without working papers. And California is taking off in this recovery.\ we're innovating. We're charging forward. Bringing along the rest of the nation. And we want immigration reform.

PEREIRA: Representative Loretta Sanchez of California, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it, even though it's a busy day and a busy time for you.

We should mention that Aaron Schock was scheduled to join us today, but his schedule no longer made that possible.

Tonight on CNN, President Obama will unveil his executive action on immigration, you can watch it right here, 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Ahead @THISHOUR, some Republicans want to try to stop President Obama's executive order on immigration, but the question is, can they?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Republicans are calling President Obama an emperor and are making no bones about their feelings on his taking executive action on immigration reform.

A recent "Wall Street Journal"/NBC poll suggests that about half Americans agree that he's making the wrong move. 38 percent approve of his choice to move ahead while the others don't.

Let's go to our Athena Jones, who's on Capitol Hill. Good to have you with me. Looks like it's quite chilly behind you.

Mitch McConnell slamming the president earlier, saying he'll regret this, it's just a sample of how Republicans could be expected to react tonight.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michaela. We've gotten to know the pre-action from senator Mitch McConnell. We've also heard from other Republicans who are very angry about the president's decision to go ahead and go it alone, to go around Congress to act on immigration. They've been warning him against do that.

But that's where the big question comes along, Michaela -- what are the Republicans do to stop him or how can they react after he makes this announcement. There are a lot of things being considered, steps they could take, including trying to use, for instance, the power of the purse. So trying to strip the funding from the agency that would help carry out this executive action.

The problem there, of course, is that the U.S. citizenship and immigration services is fee-based. So it gets a little complicated when it comes to trying to take away the money. But that would be the way to allow the government to continue to be funded but maybe try to strip the funding from an agency.

They've also talked about steps to maybe censure the president. Senator Ted Cruz from Texas has said that the new Senate has refused to take up any nominations on anyone the administration puts forward. That would include Loretta Lynch, for example, who has been nominated to be the Attorney General.

So there are a lot of steps the Republican side is talking about. At the moment right now, certainly the leadership is not talking about things like shutdown and not talking about things like impeachment, even though some in the rank and file may not rule those things out. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Yes, we hear about the rank and file throwing those words around, and I think shutdown causes panic in most of us. But one thing that we have seen happen is the lawsuit over Obamacare. That we know already in the works. But is there a threat of a lawsuit because of this executive order on immigration?

JONES: Well, there is some discussion of also suing the president over this. As you mentioned, the Republican side has chosen another lawyer, so they're able to go forward with that lawsuit on the president they say overreaching, overstepping his executive authority on Obamacare.

But the problem with adding this issue to a lawsuit is that it's going to take a long time. They'll go through the whole legal process. That's going to be separate and apart from the president carrying out this executive action.

So that's one of the things that's on the table being discussed, but it looks as though if they pursue that route, it would be on a separate track. They still have to figure out what they might do with funding or other steps to try to stop the president from carrying this through. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Interesting, because we heard Mitch McConnell say a short time ago aboutt the need to work together, that voters had clearly made that statement very loudly in the midterm elections. Yet you hear these kind of things, like lawsuits and censure. It doesn't seem like consensus at all.

Athena Jones, thanks for bringing us this part of the story. And I mistakenly thought you were in front of a cold, brisk White House. She's got a pretty screen behind her. Thanks so much, Athena. Thanks for joining me; I appreciate it.

And of course we know that the president is going to lay out his immigration plan tonight, 8:00 Eastern. Tune in to CNN. You can watch it right here.

Bill Cosby heard for the first time since a string of allegations painting him as a serial rapist. What he has to say and why he didn't want those comments released.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Bill Cosby tried to keep this out of the media, but didn't happen. The Associated Press has released new footage of an interview where a reporter asked Cosby about sexual assault allegations. We really need to point out that his wife Camille was sitting by his side during the interview.

Cosby, there you see the two of them there, Cosby refused to comment. He told the reporter, quote, "No, no. We don't do -- we don't answer that."

After the interview was over, the camera was still on. He kept pushing for the footage not to air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: Now, can I get something from you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's that?

COSBY: That none of that will be shown?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I -- I can't promise that myself. But you didn't say anything.

COSBY: I know I didn't say anything. But I'm asking your integrity that since I didn't want to say anything, but I did answer you in terms of I don't want to say anything, of what value will it have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That was two weeks ago. The Associated Press says it decided to air this footage because of this increasing firestorm surrounding Cosby, more women speaking out.

That interview comes to light as NBC kills an upcoming project with Cosby. TV Land pulls reruns of "The Cosby Show". Netflix shelves a Cosby special that was set to air next week.

We've got a lot to discuss with our senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES". Also joining us, Wendy Murphy; she's a former child abuse and sex crimes prosecutor. A great duo to have on this topic.

Brian, I know you're working away, and you're monitoring social media and kind of juggling for us here. And I really appreciate that. We've been having these ongoing conversations as this story develops. Given the business angle of this, would you say that the Cosby empire, the business end of it, his career is crumbling?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly the career renaissance he was experiencing has now been put on hold. And that's the most generous way to put it. Maybe it will never come back or maybe, maybe, somehow it will. But clearly, that renaissance he was going through with this NBC development, with this Netflix special, all of that has gone away within the course of about a day and a half.

You know, there was this long period of silence from all these companies for a few days as these allegations resurfaced.

PEREIRA: Almost -- you could almost hear them mulling over what do we do? What do we do? How do we handle this?

STELTER: Exactly. Very visibly. And now to even see the repeats of "The Cosby Show" go away on TV Land underscores the severity I think.

PEREIRA: That's very telling. Wendy, we have to really point out that Cosby has not been charged. But my question to you -- will he have to answer to these allegations? There are more and more women coming up. I use this idea that it's not just a trickle, it's a deluge, Wendy.

WENDY MUPRHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, it sure is. Well, I think the short answer is he probably won't face any formal legal charges. But let's be honest, the criminal justice system is not the sole arbiter of truth. We learned from O.J. that a person can be, in fact, adjudicated not guilty but still be really guilty.

So I don't want people to think that because there's no formal legal proceeding, it means something terrible didn't happen to all these women. I wish it were not the case, that it takes 15 women coming forward before even one of them is believed and it reaches this kind of firestorm. But in a sense, he had the cachet and the capacity to use his persona on television, in particular the good guy who couldn't possibly be guilty of these things, to insulate himself from suspicion.

And I find that terrible. I mean, he's like the comic equivalent of Santa Claus. It's really hard for people to give up that love and the feeling we had about him. But I think that it is gone for good.

PEREIRA: Brian, it's really interesting, one of the things he says, "We don't answer these questions." That was the part that was supposedly off camera after the formal interview.

STELTER: Yes, he and his wife.

PEREIRA: Yes, which is such an uncomfortable position, given that his wife is sitting right there. But "we don't answer these questions." It gives you a sense -- and we've seen from the P.R. team to the legal team that surrounds him -- he is surrounded by these people that have a plan of we don't discuss this.

STELTER: With your hands you're making this image of a bubble, and that's what it sounds like and what it feels like. And it's been that way for years. These accusations were confronting him years ago, then they fade away. This time is different though.

PEREIRA: Louder this time.

STELTER: It is. It does feel different. It does feel sustained. It does feel -- whether this is right or not -- like it will be in the first few lines of the man's obituary, hopefully many years from now. That's the kind of story this has become in the past few days.

PEREIRA: Brian and Wendy, I'm going to ask you to stick around. I want to continue our conversation, because there are allegations that are taking a new and fresher tone. Former model Janice Dickinson, she stands by her accusations against Bill Cosby. So do any of these alleged victims have any legal recourse? We're going to discuss that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)