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Ferguson Braces for Grand Jury Decision; New York Governor Updates Snowstorm Response; House GOP Suing White House over Obamacare; Latino Stars Laud Immigration Overhaul

Aired November 21, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

The grand jury in Missouri deciding whether to indict Officer Wilson will meet for the very last time today. Authorities are doing what they can to ensure calm after that announcement is made. That includes the U.S. Justice Department. It's out with a new video this morning urging police across the country to engage with demonstrators in a respectful manner. The goal: to minimize confrontations like the ones seen in Ferguson following the shooting death of Michael Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Bureau of Justice Assistants and the Office of Community-Oriented Policing Services are providing new guidance to law enforcement officers about how to approach maintaining order during First Amendment protected events. Now, this comprehensive new guide compiles information, tools, and best practices that will help law enforcement officers maintain public safety while safeguarding constitutional rights.

Over the past few months, we've seen demonstrations and protests that have sought to bring attention to real and significant underlying issues involving police practices, implicit bias and pervasive community distrust. In most cases, these demonstrations have been both meaningful and responsible and have brought vital issues to the attention of the public at large.

Similarly, and I want to emphasize this, the vast majority of law enforcement officers have honorably defended their fellow citizens engaged in these peaceful protests. I know from firsthand experience that demonstrations like these have the potential to spark a sustained and positive national dialogue, to provide momentum to a necessary conversation, and to bring about critical reform.

But history has also shown us that the most successful and enduring movements for change are those that adhere to non-aggression and non- violence. And so I ask all those who seek to lend their voice to important causes and discussions, who seek to elevate these vital conversations should do so in a way that respects the gravity of their subject matter. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Holder's video message comes on, as I said, what's believed to be the final day of deliberations before a grand jury decides whether to charge, whether to indict rather, embattled Officer Darren Wilson.

Let's talk about this with HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson and in St. Louis, I'm joined by Bishop Rafael Greene, he's the founder and senior pastor at Metropolitan Christian Worship Center. Welcome to both of you.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning -- Carol.

BISHOP RAFAEL GREENE, METROPOLITAN CHRISTIAN WORSHIP CENTER: Good morning. Good morning. How are you, Carol?

COSTELLO: I'm good.

Bishop thanks for being here. I want to start with you. These public service announcements asking for peaceful demonstrations, are they effective?

GREENE: Of course I think they will be. There are a number of people in the community who are already in that posture in their own hearts and in their own minds. We in St. Louis want to see St. Louis develop and progress.

COSTELLO: And Joey, the prosecutor's office is being very careful in how it will announce the grand jury's decision. A lot of people, though, aren't very happy with the prosecutor's office and the way it's been doing that. How should it proceed?

JACKSON: You know, it's important, Carol, because obviously people have a lot of passions about this issue one way or the other and I think first of all the public service announcements are significant because on the one hand you want the community to be out there, to be expressive, that's what the United States is all about.

On the other hand, you want it to be peaceful and the message from Attorney General Holder, Carol, is significant because it sends a message to law enforcement that it's about mutual respect. The protesters will be respectful, police you be respectful, too.

So I think moving forward if the public is on board with that message, the police are on board with that message and the district attorney's office affords the family notice in addition to the community notice I think we could see peace no matter what that grand jury decision is.

COSTELLO: Bishop, word has leaked out that Officer Darren Wilson may resign from the Ferguson Police Department. Will that calm things down or will it work the other way?

GREENE: Well, of course it just depends upon the people group that you're speaking to and speaking about. Those that feel the greatest sense of angst and anger and rage, of course, will be -- maybe not receive that as well. For many who want to see a peaceful solution be resolved, many will be able to kind of navigate past what some of the implications of that decision might be.

COSTELLO: Bishop, is the police officer making the right decision?

GREENE: Oh, I can't speak for him. I think that he's probably thought it through with his own family and parents and so forth. Of course our main concern here is that the due process of law takes place, that there's a sense of justice on both sides.

Currently the grand jury decision could affect how that is all perceived, whether or not the due process of law has actually been followed through.

COSTELLO: Well, Joey, let's say Officer Darren Wilson is not indicted but he's going resign from his job, he may never work again. A lot of people might think that's not fair.

JACKSON: You know, there are always many points to any equation, but it comes down this, Carol. It comes down to what he felt was appropriate and best for him but it's also about the community. It's about trust, it's about rebuilding, it's about rebranding and it's a larger message, too, Carol because we know passions are inflamed in St. Louis but we also know that throughout the country people have very broad concerns about policing, about police tactics, about community relations. Is it an "us versus them" mentality? And I think, you know, it's appropriate, I guess, in his mind. He felt it was the appropriate thing to do and I think it does serve to send a larger message about healing, about renewing.

And I think that's significant and that's important. And I think it would also be very difficult if he went back to policing because of that mistrust that the community would have specifically about him and then about the broader message of leaders keeping him on the force regardless of what happens whether it's criminal or not.

COSTELLO: And, Bishop, I think one of Officer Wilson's concerns is that if he would return to his job, he would endanger his fellow police officers in Ferguson.

GREENE: Well, that is a real possibility. But I still believe that most of the people in the community are able to read past most of those implications. For us, our real concern is that we are able to respond in prayer and that we're also able to provide even this weekend as we're involved in our urban world summit, we've been doing this for 28 years, that we'll be able to provide some legal law kinds of information, the rights of the citizen, the rights of law enforcement.

We have a stellar panel that will be there for that; a number of leaders that will be with us in the morning to deal with it from this perspective. And so it's time to take our reinvestigation of what's really going on from a Christian-based perspective and not view as a monolithic kind of way.

Many people in this community love St. Louis and want to see us advance, as I mentioned before. We're confident that as we move forward in this direction that's exactly what's going to happen. Officer Wilson is in our prayers as well as certainly the Brown family and we want to see and expect to see great things coming out of this entire event, as painful as it is.

COSTELLO: Gosh, I hope you're right. I'll be praying hard. Bishop Rafael Greene --

GREENE: Yes. He hears the prayer.

COSTELLO: And thanks to you, too, Joey.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I've been telling you about the terrible conditions in Buffalo, New York. As you know, they got seven feet of snow. There's a warm-up expected in the next several days so all of that snow will melt and now residents are very concerned about flooding in the region.

Governor Andrew Cuomo, who's the governor of New York, is now holding a news conference. In fact, he spoke just minutes ago so we wanted to share that with you. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: -- it's about two feet. The good news is it seems like, seems like, the snow is stopped and we have gone through the worst in terms of snowfall and we will now turn to the snow removal without worrying about another imminent snowfall, which is the good news.

As we've been discussing all week, this was going to be in stages and we still believe we'll have challenges to deal with. There will be warming over the next couple of days. The warming will bring melting. Melting will bring water. Water will bring floods. How many and where we can't tell you. We are preparing now for more flooding than we have seen in a long, long time.

But it's hard to tell because we've never had this much snow and this much melting of this much snow in a short period of time. So we still have that challenge to look forward to. But snow removal is proceeding. To remove the snow we have to move vehicles. To move vehicles, the vehicles need a place to go. And therefore we're going to start lifting driving bans and opening the roads primarily to move vehicles that are now blocking roadways and primarily to allow deliveries of essential services. Health products, food deliveries to supermarkets, et cetera.

When we are opening roads and lifting driving bans, we do not intend to signify all is fine, get in your car and go for a road or do something that is non-essential. Please -- we are saying the opposite. The opening of the roads is to move vehicles that are blocking roads and to allow trucks to come in to make essential deliveries. If you have a non-essential purpose, now is not the time to be driving around. The roads are still very dangerous. You should expect a lot of blockages as the plows are working, as vehicles are becoming unstuck. So if at all possible, if it is non-essential, again, stay in your homes.

The following state roads will be opening at 3:00 today again, for essential travel -- the 190 to 290 to 219 and the 400. Along those roads local exits may be closed so do not get on that road is you are expecting to get off at a local exit because many of the local exits will still be closed. Again, the purpose of opening the road is so that traffic -- trucks that want to leave the area can leave the area. Those roads with the 190 to 290 to 219 and 400 -

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump away with this. Governor Andrew Cuomo sending out warnings to residents: the roads aren't open for them but to emergency vehicles to clear those vehicles stranded by that extreme snowstorm that Buffalo had over the past several days.

I do have some breaking news to pass along to you right now. House Republicans have filed a lawsuit, not over immigration, but over Obamacare, over what they call quote, unilateral actions on healthcare. In a statement, the House Speaker John Boehner says quote, "Time after time the president has chosen to ignore the will of the American people and rewrite federal law on his own without a vote of Congress. That's not the way our system of government was designed to work. If this President can get away with making his own future laws, future presidents will have the ability to as well. The House has an obligation to stand up for the constitution and that's exactly why we're pursuing on this course of action."

So let's get more on this. Let's head to Washington and check in with Athena Jones. Why now on this, Athena?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Carol. Well, we've known this was coming for some time, the House representatives passed legislation back at the end of July allowing them to bring this litigation but there were some problems with finding lawyers who could bring the suit. Just earlier this week the Republicans in the House found a lawyer and so they said that this suit would be coming. And now it has come.

Now, I don't want to get too far into the weeds here but I want to tell you the two issues that they find standing to bring this suit they believe. They believe the president unlawfully waived the employer mandate as part of the health care legislation. He did that twice. They believe that that was unlawful because he did not go through Congress to delay that mandate whereby employers weren't going to be penalized for not offering health insurance.

The other issue that's part of this lawsuit is that they say the President has been illegally transferring funds to insurance companies. This is part of one of the Obamacare -- one of the Affordable Care Act's -- part of that legislation requires that insurance companies offer reduced fees to the people who are being ensured.

And so the government has been transferring, they say, to the tune of $3 billion to insurance companies in fiscal year 2014 and that if they continue this over the next ten years there will be payments to insurance companies of $175 billion. This is money that they say Congress has not passed legislation to appropriate. And so they say that the President is inappropriately passing on this money to insurance companies.

So those are the two issues that are going to be part of this lawsuit. But Carol this shows you that the Republicans are going to do what they can do to try to fight the President when it comes to unilateral actions. In this case it's on health care, but we know that there is some talk of trying to bring a lawsuit against the President when it comes to executive action.

So this is the breaking news we have today -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones, reporting live from Washington.

I want to bring in our legal analyst Joey Jackson. I'll just ask you one question -- a question or two. So the President's health care plan already went to the U.S. Supreme Court and now the Republicans are filing a -- the U.S. Supreme court upheld it as constitutional. Now --

JACKSON: 5-4.

COSTELLO: 5-4. So do the Republicans have a chance with this latest lawsuit?

JACKSON: They could. You know, Carol, it's interesting because this speaks to a larger issue. Now when Athena was breaking it down, she said something very important. Amongst a number of things she said that were important. But it's about unilateral action. And what the Republicans believe is that he's unilaterally taking these actions when you have a law.

So if you have a law it's passed by congress, there's a separation, right, between the executive power of the President and the power of the purse, which Congress has, we dole out the money. So they say "Look, Mr. President, we have a law and that says employer mandate in the event that employers are not providing the appropriate healthcare insurance, you fine them."

The President has postponed. They say it's unlawful. The law says you must move forward with that. And so therefore they believe he's breaking the law in light of that. And in terms of the other piece that Athena was speaking to which is the issue regarding paying these insurance companies, power of the purse. We didn't fund that, says Congress. You want money for insurance companies, you come to us. So I think the larger implication in this lawsuit is about what are the powers of the President, and what are the powers of Congress and if you don't respect our powers, Mr. President, we're going to take you to court. It will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court says this time.

COSTELLO: It's going to be a really fun 2015, don't you think?

JACKSON: Just getting started.

COSTELLO: Joey Jackson -- thanks so much.

JACKSON: Pleasure -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The President in essence declared war on the nation by issuing an executive order on immigration. At least that's what one Republican congressman says. Now House Speaker John Boehner has jumped on board, slamming President Obama for turning quote "a deaf ear" to voters and vowing to act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The People's House will rise to this challenge. We will not stand idle as the President undermines the rule of law in our country and places lives at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this. Republican Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida joins me now. Welcome, sir.

REP. MARIO DIAZ-BALART (R) FLORIDA: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Just a couple of minutes ago we heard that House Speaker Boehner filed a lawsuit against the President over Obamacare. Can you just tell me what you think about that?

DIAZ-BALART: The lawsuit is really about overreach. It's whether the President can do whatever he or she likes regardless of what the law may say or not. And that's bigger than President Obama or an issue. That's the separation of powers. That's our constitution, that's the rule of law.

And you know, no man, no woman, and no president whether it's President Obama or President Nixon can be above the law. So I think what we're dealing with here is bigger than Obamacare, bigger than executive action. It's whether the president of the United States has the power to do whatever he or she wants to do regardless of whether the law allows him or her to do that or not.

COSTELLO: Did you -- did you just compare President Obama to President Nixon? DIAZ-BALART: Well look, I'm not a constitutional authority. You know

who is? Who is a constitutional scholar, President Obama?

COSTELLO: President Obama.

DIAZ: He's lectured on the issue. So President Obama, for example, for what six years, five years has been saying publicly a number of times that he does not have the legal authority to do what he has done last night. I agree with a lot of the issues in that executive order. But the question is does he have the legal authority? It's not you, Carol, or me saying it. President Obama who has lectured on the constitution has said multiple times publicly and privately that he does not have the authority do exactly what he has done.

So what we are dealing with here is whether the President is doing things that are unlawful and he himself is the one who has stated multiple times that what he did last night is unlawful. He does not have the legal authority. That's a pretty serious issue.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing. His executive order doesn't go into effect for six months so Congress has a chance to do what the President suggested, that would be to pass a bill. Is that on the table?

DIAZ-BALART: I hope so. I've been trying to -- I've been working on trying to pass legislation. It would have been nice if the President would have sat down with those of us that are working on doing to try to see if we could work together and join efforts to try to do this as opposed to doing it unilaterally.

But, again, I support a lot of the specific things in the president's executive order. The question is -- and it's not me saying it, it's him saying it -- does he have the legal authority to do it on his own or are certain things the prerogative of the congress and certain things are the prerogative of the President? That's a bigger issue but it's very imp.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I understand your concerns but now we have to move forward and the American people kind of want congress and the President to work together. So it seems as if the President's further poisoned the well and Congress is intent on fighting back and punishing the President for poisoning the well or taking this executive action that many lawmakers don't think it's constitutional. That means in the voters' minds that nothing is going to get done either in 2015.

DIAZ-BALART: I hope not Carol. Carol, I hope we're able to work together. I think that was one of the takeaways from this last election is the American people want us to work together to, to roll up our sleeves and deal with our differences to try to come up with solutions.

COSTELLO: But, frankly, nobody thinks that's going to happen.

DIAZ-BALLART: Well, and the president clearly has not made it easier, unfortunately. And I wish that he would roll up his sleeves and sat down with us. Those of us who are trying to work on it. Look, the leadership of the incoming Congress has said publicly and privately that they want to tackle immigration reform. The President could have said, okay, give you six months, give you four months, give you five months.

And let's see if we can together try to get this thing done as opposed to doing that "He has done" something that he himself has said he does not have the legal authority. Now the Congress is talking about punishing President Obama. The congress is talking about adhering to the constitution to making sure that nobody is above the law. That's not punishing the President; that's making sure that we adhere to the constitution.

I'm hoping that we can look at ways to work together but clearly the one who has shown once again that he has no intention of working with anybody is President Obama. Despite that, I can tell you what I'm going do, I'm going work with the President or with anybody else to try to deal with whether it's immigration reform or other important issues because again we cannot let the partisanship in the case, the President doing things on his own even though he has said he can't do it.

I hope that we can work through this but again, I think the President has in essence on purpose created a quasi-constitutional issue. I hope we can do this in a way that's constructive to the country and that we can hopefully work things out in the near future.

COSTELLO: I hope so. Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

Viewers who tuned into last night's Latin Grammys had to wait as the awards show took a brief backseat to President Obama announcing the details of that immigration overhaul.

Paul Vercammen has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The 15th annual Latin Grammy Awards took a bow to President Obama, allowing him to first deliver his immigration thoughts to a TV audience.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Today our immigration system is broken. And everybody knows it. It's been this way for decades. And for decades we haven't done much about it.

VERCAMMEN: Then from the MGM Grand Hotel Latino music and culture wove together with a sense of euphoria from the President's speech. Obama declared he wants to prevent deportation of an estimated five million undocumented immigrants and so winner Carlos Vives dedicated his trophy to the President.

And on the arrival line, the usual talk about who's wearing what turned to what will happen with immigration next. JESSIE CORDOBA, SINGER: It is important because there's so many

people that live here for so many years that they need that answer. They need to be able to know where are they going to go? Where their dreams are going to go?

ROSELYN SANCHEZ, ACTRESS: As a Puerto Rican, I'm an American citizen so for me it doesn't affect me the same way but I know it's a big deal for Latinos in this country to be recognized and to be represented and they deserve to be here. They work hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This country is the land of dreams.

VERCAMMEN: (inaudible) this year, put an immigrant gardener in the film "A Better Life" -- a role that earned him a best actor Oscar nomination two years ago. The Mexican star applauded the Obama proposal from Hollywood.

DEMIAN BICHIR, ACADEMY AWARD NOMINEE: Even though that does not fix the whole broken immigration sys system, it helps a lot and it's a big, big, big step. We have to celebrate that.

VERCAMMEN: Back in Las Vegas, the joy and the tributes poured out on stage. Winner Mark Anthony.

MARK ANTHONY, MUSICIAN: Wow. Boriqua!

VERCAMMEN: They delayed the Grammys for 17 minutes for the president's announcement many Latinos waited a lifetime to hear.

Paul Vercammen, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR" with Berman and Michaela starts now.