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Don Lemon Tonight

Protests Across the Country; Darern Wilson Speaks to ABC's George Stephanopoulos

Aired November 25, 2014 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is midnight on the East Coast, 11:00 p.m. in Ferguson, Missouri. Our breaking news tonight, protests from coast to coast one night after the grand jury decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. We are live in Ferguson, Missouri. CNN's reporters are on the scene of protests all over this country.

Joining us first now is Paul Vercammen in Los Angeles -- Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I am right outside Los Angeles police department headquarters. I'm at the corner of (INAUDIBLE), Los Angeles. And a standoff here, the demonstrators, many of whom started a march in the (INAUDIBLE) district and now gone up to police headquarters and they are really nose to nose with some of the offices. Went off and they hold their hands, by the way. "Hands up, don't shoot" is the chat you will hear. It quite (INAUDIBLE) just a little bit.

When you have an incident where they increase the plastic bottles in a rubber pile or two, but there hasn't been any shoving or violence here. Again, this is a protest that started miles away. People are marching through streets of downtown Los Angeles.

And go ahead, if you can get an indication of the intersection. What they've also done is laid down intersections and blocked them, but the police have given them a lot of room as well. They did allowed the marchers to, you know, proceed through. There has been blast point or somehow it where somebody try to jump over the fence and possibly get on the freeway. But we just seem mainly peaceful demonstrations. People here expressing their views, among other things saying we've got your surrounded, LAPD. Back to you, Don.

LEMON: All right, CNN's Paul Vercammen on the west coast. Let's go to the east coast now. CNN's Miguel Marquez is walking the streets of New York where protesters are out in force there -- Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: North and south east and west. We're on the west side highway now. I want to show you right here, this is the west side highway right down here completely shut down. They just moved protesters. The motorcycles you see going by there are police officers. They just shut it off and protesters on to 120th street near Grant's Tomb (ph). If you turnaround this way, you can see that's the end of the protesters there. There's 500, maybe 600 people still out here.

People are tired, I will tell you. It's been a very, very long day of marching for them today, five or six hours today. Many of them were out here last night as well. And that was another five or six-hour march from south to north in Manhattan.

Where exactly we're going is not currently clear, but it appears we may be headed up to the Manhattan Bridge where they may try to take that. That's where the problem came with police last night over on the east side of town at the Triborough Bridge when they tried to save that, police move them all. There have been a couple of arrests. There have been many arrests tonight in town. (INAUDIBLE) in just one of many protests across the city -- Don.

All right, Miguel Marquez out on the streets of New York. They're shouting "no justice, no peace."

And now we want to get you to the streets of Ferguson, Missouri. CNN's Jason Carroll has been out there all evening.

Jason, what's been going on now?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, as you know, the St. Louis county police told the crowds they had to disperse. They did. Now, they moved back down here in front of the St. Louis -- the city of Ferguson police department. You can see you've got members of the St. Louis county police there in front. You got armored vehicles here. And then in the back you've got members of the National Guard standing by as well. They have not asked the smaller crowd to disperse. This crowd here, so far had been peaceful. The demonstration here in front doesn't end but peaceful. They have not asked this crowd to disperse. They have only asked them to get out of the street, move on to the sidewalk. At this point it's just a standoff between demonstrators here and law enforcement out there -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Jason Carroll. Thank you very much.

We also want to get to CNN's Stephanie Elam who is here in Ferguson as well. I'm not exactly sure where Stephanie is in that crowd.

But Stephanie, what are you seeing?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Actually, Don, if over on west Florescent where if you're watching our coverage last night, you know that this is where we saw so much mayhem and chaos.

Right behind me, you see the Ferguson market and liquor here. And this is where I was standing over by the McDonald's last night for about a good 30 minutes where there was no law enforcement, very different scene tonight. You've got the National Guard out here. They're armed. The street is blocked off. No one is allowed to drive down west Florescent tonight where there was looting. And we saw those buildings on fire. And we saw people just running around and break into cars and break into the ATM over here.

Very different scene over here. We have seen seven or so humvees go shooting down at west Florescent driving down at a speedy clip there. But otherwise, it's pretty quiet here. They've got it on lockdown here tonight, Don. Very different scene. No one out here at all.

LEMON: All right. Stephanie Elam, thank you very much.

To CNN's Ed Lavandera also in Ferguson, Missouri tonight with the very latest -- Ed Lavandera.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The city of Ferguson police department towards city hall. And what you see behind me is remnants of yet another police car that was torched here. As the marchers were coming this way up this street (INAUDIBLE) right here and set up a barricade around city hall.

But again, another police car torched here. They lodged smoke canisters towards those protesters and dispersed that crowd. And things have settled down here considerably (INAUDIBLE) -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Ed Lavandera. Thank you very much.

And again, we are watching protests all across this country.

This is Oakland, California. Our affiliate, KGO, route 580 shut down in Oakland, California. There are protests there, protests in Portland, protests in Seattle, protest in San Francisco, in Dallas, in Denver, in Nashville, in New Orleans, Chicago, Providence, Rhode Island, Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston.

And as we look at these pictures from Oakland, it appears in the center of your screen an arrest going on. Again, Route 580 in Oakland shut down. And we're looking at officers and protesters that are appear to be in some sort of standoff there. And like we saw just moments ago in Ferguson, Missouri, an arrest happening live on your screen.

Van Jones is our analyst here on CNN. Van, you're also an attorney and a political analyst. And as we have been watching this, there have been a number of arrests, not nearly as many that took place last evening and not as much violence as happened last evening. What do you make of what's happening and the galvanizing of protesters all across this country?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's a watershed moment for a generation of young people who are trying to figure out how to make a difference. You have a generation especially of young African-Americans, Latino, Native Americans who are really crushed between street violence on the one hand and police violence on the other. That is their dilemma. And they have not been able to figure out how to solve either problem. So you see this frustration.

Now you see this generation on a knife's edge between violence and

LEMON: And you see another arrest happening. JONES: Another arrest.

LEMON: And Van, when the arrests started, and when you saw the torching of the police car, you know, you were like darn it. Why is that? What is that?

JONES: Because you saw the beauty, Don, of this generation. Young people across the country, marching peacefully, expressing themselves, obviously spirited, but being constructed. And then they, all of them, thousands of them across the country getting knocked off the air because a couple of people go even burn a police officer. And this generation is going to have to make a decision. Are you going to let these kinds of feel-good, horrible tactics divert the country from the conversation they want to have.

This generation wants to have a conversation about jobs, about justice, about making America better. We sometimes forget, when we came out of college, there were jobs. You have a lot of young people graduating off a cliff.

LEMON: Well, I don't know when you came -- probably years and years before me.

JONES: Decades before you.

LEMON: Decades, but, go on.

JONES: You have a generation that deserves better. A lot of these young people here in Ferguson, they say they want to be beauticians. They want to go to community college. They want to become mechanics. They have modest dreams and they can't figure out a way to reach them. Now, if you turn that helplessness into positive action or negative action. That's the challenge of this generation.

LEMON: And as you're speaking, again, another arrest that you are seeing right in the corner of your screen. There you go. A confrontation, at least we see. And I'm not sure if -- these appear to be members of the National Guard. Because the National Guard --

JONES: Different color of uniform.

LEMON: have different color of uniforms as they were protecting the Ferguson police department earlier.

Listen, you're very versed in politics in Washington. The president tonight speaking, as we watched this all play out, saying that he wants to meet with key leaders around the country to talk about how to improve the relations between communities and police.

JONES: I think that that is really important. And I hope that both parties can come together. Frankly, you've got a bunch of young people out there. They're showing this much heart, five hour, six hours. Those could be young voters. Those could be young elected official in a few years' time. It's important not to think for both parties to reach out to them. LEMON: But that's the issue. Because in the -- when the

demonstrations began to happen back in August, there was a concerted everyday by leaders and by political leaders to get people registered. But they turned out not to be a mass registration of people to vote. It's tough to get young people to take part in the political process. And that's where the real change occurs.

JONES: I think that's true. And that's why I think that especially older Americans who may not understand why are these kids out here, what are they doing, why are they so angry? Listening to them could be very helpful to everybody.

LEMON: Van, I want to get in CNN's Sara Sidner who is right and near the sight of that arrest.

Sara, what are you seeing?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Basically standing face to face again outside here in front of the police department. We are also seeing some photographers. I'm going to go try to take a look here. My photographer is sighted tethered right now, getting power. But basically reports and some of the protesters are being told -- OK, they just made an arrest. I see they must just made an arrest right outside the police department. It looks like the National Guard is involved in taking someone down there.

What you're seeing here is that police are standing here. They put one of their vehicles to block the area there. But basically you've got police here. You've got protesters here. You've got the National Guard still over there. But I did just see the National Guard taking someone in behind the police department there.

But mostly it's been quiet for the last half-hour or so. But just about four blocks up the road is where you saw the police car set on fire, where you saw the tear gas coming, where you saw the crowds start running, and now they've ended up back here and still protesting, where there is also a helicopter shining a very bright spotlight on the crowd right now. And certainly it's more quiet than it has been over the past couple of hours.

But now you're seeing the police in the road now. They got the protesters pushed all the way back to the sidewalk and the National Guard on the other side of that, Don.

LEMON: All right, Sara Sidner in Ferguson. Thank you very much. We are going to be right back with the very latest on the situation here in Ferguson tonight and on the protests across the country.

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LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.

The breaking news tonight, protests all across America after the grand jury decide not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. We're going to get straight now to CNN's Miguel Marquez in the middle of one of those protests in New York City -- Miguel. MARQUEZ: Don, this protest continues to protest. They are marching

all across this city. We started in Union Square. We went over to the east side up to the FDR, a major highway on the east side of town and across. All the way up to the U.N. then over in to Times Square. And then they went over to the west side highway. Shut that major thoroughfare down and now we are up in Harlem. It's not very clear where we're going. They may be going to the Triborough Bridge. And have (INAUDIBLE) next to me here who was at work in Time Square when you saw this protest going. But why did you join in? Why did you so move to join?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I personally saw like the aftermath of the Eric Gardner case and --.

MARQUEZ: Which is the case here in New York where a young man was choked to death by a police officer. And that is still before a grand jury and we haven't heard the results there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. I just want to help bring about change. Because, like you know, we're all human first. But I can't deny my race as a black man and I know that sometimes I'm profiled based on my race. So people don't know who I am as a person. So that's not fair. And the system is set up against us sometimes.

MARQUEZ: It is extraordinary to me. Because we started off on this march with so much energy. And now we sort of walked down the west side highway in the dark all by ourselves on this lonely road. You don't even know how you're getting home, do you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I live on Staten Island but it doesn't matter right now. It doesn't matter at all. I don't even know where the one train is or the five. But, I'll find my way home.

MARQUEZ: But, what's going on Ferguson, how -- why are people so moved to get out here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because I have a younger brother. That have could be me. And since this happened in NY as well, what can stop them for doing this to me and my little brother? I want to be part of that change.

MARQUEZ: And getting out here, being on your feet, being with these people tonight, why is it so important to take these streets here in New York?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we have the power. Our generation has a voice. We were mobilizing and it is easy. So, I feel like we can do something about this because we need to change. We need to make a change in this country to make it better. Because it seems like (INAUDIBLE) we're all not equal.

MARQUEZ: And do you think this is a step towards that? Do you think this is a definitive moment where we will have that soon? What do you think this is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is progress. I don't see it as a definitive moment because even though what happened is sad, but it lit a fire under us. So you know, now we're going to make sure that things change. We have people from other countries saying yes, that's not right. We have our system saying no, that's not right. Obviously something is wrong and the people know that.

MARQUEZ: And what do you want America to know about what's happening on the streets of New York tonight? You can see people are now sitting down here. They've been at it for many, many hours. What do you want America to know about what is happening on these streets?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want America to know that this is something that's going to continue to happen. It is just because one city doesn't do it, another will pick up the fire because now we're burning.

MARQUEZ: Are you surprised it's happening not only here but in Los Angeles and in Dallas and in Atlanta and certainly Ferguson and all over the country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all. The people are tired of what's going on. And if you look on social media, my favorite is Tumblr. Tumblr has spoken since this whole thing even started. And that's my generation. My generation is sick of the bull that is going on. When are we going to see change? When is that going to happen? Because it is just like why do I have to worry about the color of my skin being cause of my destiny?

MARQUEZ: Thank you very much. Good luck getting home to Staten Island.

Don, that's a little taste of it up here in Harlem. And we keep marching on. You can see the police backing us up.

LEMON: All right, Miguel. He is up in Harlem, my neighbor. If he has to go to Staten Island, he has a long, long walk. Luckily New York City, though, great transportation, so he'll be fine.

So the 101 freeway that we're looking at now in Los Angeles shut down. Of course, traffic problems always a big issue in Los Angeles. But now we're being told the 101 freeway shut down in Los Angeles because of protests.

And as we said, there are protests all over the country. You just saw what happened on the east coast in New York City with our Miguel Marquez. The west coast now, you are looking at the 101 freeway. And earlier, our Paul Vercammen, standing on front of city hall where they said that they were peaceful protests. A little bit of a standoff with some of the officers. But it doesn't appear that there are any arrests in Los Angeles.

Now, you are looking at Oakland, California. These pictures are courtesy of our affiliate, KGO. And again, the freeway there appears to be moving. It doesn't appear to be -- the big hold-up with protesters, there's some traffic. I'm not sure if it's associated.

As we get closer, though, there we go. Yes, it is. There are people on the ground. And some of them appear to be holding signs. Again, this is happening in Oakland, California.

But as we have been reporting here all evening, the protests goes from Portland, to San Francisco, you are looking at Oakland now, New York City. Of course, Ferguson, Missouri, the site of the original site of the unrest that started back in August. And now the bigger protests, the biggest that we've seen played out last night in Ferguson, Missouri.

Again, 11:21 central time, 12:21 just past midnight eastern time, and we have it all for you right here on CNN.

Let's discuss now. Alex Ferrer, a former police officer and a former circuit court judge and he is the host of television, "Judge Alex." CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill is here and CNN political contributor, Van Jones.

First With Marc Lamont Hill, let's talk. You are in New York City. The gentleman there, he said he is up in Harlem. He's marching. He said listen, this generation, we have a voice and they don't want police brutality. He's got to get back to Staten Island. That's another issue. But we're looking, you know, at the protesters there. Is this a generational thing? Is this a young people's movement, Marc Lamont Hill?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It absolutely is. You know, Dr. King used to say when dogs bite us in Birmingham, we bleed everywhere. I mean, this is a reenactment of that practice, you know. Someone got hurt in Ferguson and we're bleeding everywhere. You see around the country protest. The protest chants in Ferguson last night was if we don't get it, shut it down.

You see people shutting down highways. You see people shutting down roads. You see people shutting down games and operas over the last few months. It's an exciting moment for young protesters. As again, the violence is one thing. And we can bracket that for a moment and talk about the 99.9 percent of the protesters who are trying to make change in the spectacle of protests and through organized action, cop watch programs, educational intervention, voter registration drives. This is what activism is like. This is what democracy looks like.

LEMON: Yes. This is what democracy looks like. You sound like you've been, Marc Lamont Hill, among protesters. I do have to ask, though not that we want to down play the power of social media. This isn't just social media, right? These are organized efforts of organizations as well.

HILL: Very much so. A number of organizations including PICO, P-I-C- O, which is a faith-based organization, organizing nationally. You also have color of change.org. You go online. You find Fergusonaction.org. You have -- you also have justiceformikeBrown.org. So you have real organizations like color of change and other -- and local organization like Hands Up United all working together. That creates, I think, an opportunity for people to realize, you know, this is not just a few people doing things to people object to. There is deep level of concern with this generation and how they are reacting with law enforcement. We sometimes forget, United States has a big, big prison population

about 25 percent of the world's prisoners are here in the U.S. They're only five percent of the country. What is that mean? That means a lot of people wind up going to jail that impacts these communities. They want to see jobs not jails. This movement is going to keep moving.

LEMON: All right, preacher.

So Judge Alex, here's what I'm going to ask you. So you've got the protesters, right? They are exercising their rights. You have people on the 101 freeway who are just want to get to and further like listen, I need get to where I'm going. I understand that you have an issue. You have residents who live in Ferguson, Missouri, who own property around the Ferguson police department these very issues. I don't want my property destroyed. I need to get two and from.

So what happens? What happens here? There has to be some sort of an agreement, I would imagine, between the protesters and the residents who just want their lives to be normal.

ALEX FERRER, HOST, JUDGE ALEX: Well, I mean, you know, the protesters walk out on the freeway and obstruct everybody from getting harm, you know. I don't think that is appropriate, obviously. They shouldn't be blocking everybody from getting home, not that anybody in Los Angeles would honestly notice if 101 Freeway came to a screeching halt for a few hours, but you know.

And it's not exactly, you know, the equivalent tossing tea (ph) into the water, but you know. If you alienate the people who you're trying to get to support you, you've really kind of lost the cause. And that's why I think when protests are heartfelt and peaceful, you get more people. You get more support. Martin Luther King did so much more with his peaceful protests than burning a million cars will ever do. So, you know, you don't want to tick off the people that are you are trying to say join us. But at the end of the day, it's just blocking a highway. I'm not going to like, you know, lose my head over it.

HILL: And Dr. King did block highways. He did block roads. He did obstruct traffic and he also crippled an economic system. I think part of what people want to see is an organized response, in addition of blocking the highways and roads.

So I think it is important. You need to create a spectacle in order for the nation to respond. Everybody keeps saying, why is there so much unrest? Why is there so much anger? If people hadn't engaged in social unrest, if people hadn't protested we wouldn't be talking about Michael Brown. Black men get killed in this country all the time. We're talking about Michael Brown, not just because of the spectacle that happened in August, in the ugly where his body was treated, but also because we made it a national story. If you don't make it a national story, black death is just normal.

LEMON: Marc, listen. You are right. But it has to evolve. And what Van and I had been talking about here is that you create a spectacle, you get people's attention. But if you want to effect change, you're going to have to participate in not only the legal process, but the political process.

JONES: And I think that's why what President Obama is starting, I think is good. But both political parties, I think, have to come together.

LEMON: Marc, five second and then I have to go to a break. What do you say to that?

HILL: I disagree. I think participating in partisan politics or electoral politics as a strategy and tactic is good. But it can be reductive to think about politics simply as the ballot box.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All right, thank you guys. Stand by, everyone. We are going to be right back with protests happening all across the country.

We're looking at Los Angeles right now. You see protesters gathered on the 101 Freeway. The 101 is shut down at this hour. This is Ferguson, Missouri. You're looking at protesters there in the front of the Ferguson, Missouri police department and of course, New York City, protesters out in force, marching through that city as well.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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LEMON: I want to get you now to Brentwood, Missouri. This is 12 miles away from Ferguson, Missouri, and we can see there are some protesters there on the scene and police officers as well. But again we're getting word just not far from Ferguson, Missouri, there's also a protest going on in Brentwood, Missouri. We'll keep an eye on all of that for you, as well as the protests from all over the country.

So just a few weeks ago, I had a meeting with Darren Wilson and got to meet the officer at the center of this controversy. And he told me his story, what happened between him and Michael Brown on that fateful day back on August 9, 2014, on Canfield Drive. I sat down with him. And we were talking about possibly doing an interview together.

Darren Wilson decided to do an interview with my colleague over on ABC News, George Stephanopoulos. We're going to look at a portion of that interview from George Stephanopoulos and then we'll talk about that on the over side of this. Here is Darren Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OFFICER DARREN WILSON, SHOT MICHAEL BROWN: It was like a five-year- old holding onto Hulk Hogan. That's just how big this man was.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Hulk Hogan?

WILSON: He was very large, very powerful man.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're a pretty big guy.

WILSON: Yes, I'm above average.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you try to grab him but you feel that force?

WILSON: Yes. And then as I'm holding him, I see him coming back around with his left hand. And it's in the shape like this and it comes through the window and just a solid punch to the right side of my face.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're still sitting there figuring out how do I get out of this?

WILSON: Yes, I mean, the next thing was how do I survive.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How to survive?

WILSON: Yes. Because I didn't know if I would be able to withstand another hit at that point.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Where is your gun at that point?

WILSON: I keep it on my right hip. I take it out and I come up and I point it at him. And what I said is get back or I'm going to shoot you. And then his response, immediately he grabbed the top of my gun. And when he grabbed it he said you're too much of a (EXPLETIVE) to shoot me. And while he's doing that, I can feel his hand trying to come over my hand and get inside the trigger guard and try and shoot me with my own gun. And that's when I pulled the trigger for the first time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What happened?

WILSON: Didn't go off. The gun was actually being jammed by his hand on top of the firearm. So I tried again. And again, another click. And this time I was -- this has to work or I'm going to be dead. He's going to get this gun away from, something's going to happen and I'm going to be dead. So I pull a third time and it finally goes off.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That was the first time you'd ever used your gun, right?

WILSON: Yes, it was.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In all your years as a police officer.

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And then what happens? WILSON: He gets even angrier. His aggression in his face, the

intensity, just increases and he comes back at me again. I wasn't looking at him. I was just like it, wracked (ph), expecting another hit. And I put my gun up and fired. Then I go to exit my car. And when I'm getting out, I use my walkie and I say shots fired, send more cars. And I started chasing after Michael Brown.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not stay in the car? He's running away.

WILSON: Because he's not -- my job isn't to just sit and wait. I have to see where this guy goes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you thought it was your duty to give chase?

WILSON: Yes, it was. I mean, that's what we were trained to do.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And he runs out of the car. Gets about 30 or 40 feet. You can now get out of the car. You start to follow him. And then he stops?

WILSON: He does stop.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why?

WILSON: When he stopped, he turned and faced me. And as he does that, his right hand immediately goes into his waistband and his left hand is a fist at his side, and he starts charging me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you saw that?

WILSON: I didn't know. I mean, my initial thought was is there a weapon in there?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though he hadn't pulled something out when he was confronting you.

WILSON: Yes, it was still just the unknown. And again we're taught to let me see your hands.

STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, some of the eyewitnesses have said, when at that moment he turned around, he turned around and put his hands up.

WILSON: That would be incorrect.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No way?

WILSON: No way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you say he starts to run. Does a stutter step, starts to come towards you. And?

WILSON: And at that time, I gave myself another mental check. Can I shoot this guy? Legally can I? And the question I answered myself was I have to. If I don't, he will kill me if he gets to me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though he's 35, 40 feet away?

WILSON: Once he's coming that direction, if he hasn't stopped yet, when is he going to stop? After he's coming at me and I decide to shoot, I fired a series of shots. And paused.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you see?

WILSON: I noticed at least one of them hit him. I don't know where, but I saw his body kind of just flinch a little bit. And after that I paused and I again yelled, you know, stop ,get on the ground, giving him the opportunity to stop. And he ignored all the commands and he just kept running. And so after he kept running again, I shot another series of shots. And at least one of those hit him, because I saw the flinch. Well, this time he's about 15 feet away. So I start back pedaling because he's just getting too close and he's still not stopping. He gets to eight to ten feet, and as he does that, he kind of starts leaning forward like he's going to tackle me. And I looked down my barrel of my gun and I fired and what I saw was his head, and that's where it went.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right in the top of his head?

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You'd never shot your gun before and now a man is dead.

WILSON: Yes. After the supervisor got there, I gave him the brief rundown of what had happened.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you tell him?

WILSON: I told him I had to shoot somebody and he asked why. Well, I said he had grabbed my gun and he had charged me and he was going to kill me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you killed him first.

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there anything you cold have done differently that would have prevented that killing from taking place?

WILSON: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Nothing?

WILSON: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind that if Michael Brown were white this would have gone down in exactly the same way?

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No question? WILSON: No question.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And because of what happened on Canfield Drive on that fateful day in August, you're seeing protests across the country, because the officer was not indicted and many of these people who are out on the streets believe that he should have been. But the process did play out and many people don't like it. But it is what it is.

We're going to discuss that interview and more with my guest as we look at these pictures in Oakland, California, the burning of what appears to be trash in the middle of the road there, on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're live tonight in Ferguson, Missouri. CNN reporters are on the scene of protests all across this country. I want to get you to a protest now in New York City. CNN's Miguel Marquez has been there all evening. Miguel, where are you now?

MARQUEZ: Well, we may have come to an end here, Don. We're at Adam (ph) Glade in (INAUDIBLE) at 125 Street, right in the heart of (INAUDIBLE). (INAUDIBLE).

They're now here talking to protesters, telling them that on Thanksgiving there is a big parade here, the Thanksgiving Day Parade, and they might try to march on that day as well. It is not clear that will happen.

I want to speak -- Mama Duke (ph), can I speak to you real quick? This is Marvin (INAUDIBLE). Now, you just joined this protest. You saw it coming by here. Why did you come out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of what they did yesterday, that's not right. The reason why I'm here is to represent.

MARQUEZ: When you say yesterday, you mean in Ferguson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Ferguson, yes.

MARQUEZ: Why does that affect you? What is your story? Where are you from and how long have you been here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm African.

MARQUEZ: And how long have you been here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been here for over ten years.

MARQUEZ: Over ten years. And why, when you saw what happened in Ferguson, why did that move you so much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of the thing like -- the way they meant, like (INAUDIBLE), that's make no sense. If it was something like real, they're going to make it in the daytime, and things won't be happening at night.

MARQUEZ: Where are you from in Africa?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senegal. West Africa, Senegal.

MARQUEZ: And what do you want to see? You've been here ten years, you understand how America works now. What do you want to see happen here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love this country. I want a place of peace. When things like this happen, (INAUDIBLE). We want the peace that's what America stand for. They stand for, unite for everybody.

MARQUEZ: And what does something like what happened in Ferguson, to Mike Brown, how does that shape your view of America and this place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no race (ph) in this place. Everybody is united, everybody is the same. That's my bottom point.

MARQUEZ: Well, I think a lot of people here would disagree with you tonight. It is an interesting point that you make. And it's a very valid one. Thank you very much.

The crowd here has shrunk down to maybe a couple hundred at this point. There are police around the area, but it appears that they are going to end here and take up the march on another day. Don?

LEMON: All right, Miguel Marquez in New York City. As a matter of fact, three blocks from where I lived there in New York City.

So I want to get now to Ed Lavandera who's on the street now in Ferguson, Missouri. Ed, what's going on where you are?

LAVANDERA: Well, Don, this is Ferguson city hall. And most of the protests have been going on, as you well know, down around the corner about a couple of blocks away at the police department. And earlier tonight, protesters left that scene, they broke away from that area and started coming towards here and then down this street. There was a rapid team of law enforcement that responded to the scene but not before protesters were able to break windows here at Ferguson city hall as well as set fire to another police car.

And also, we're told by various police officers here on the scene, I think we have video of it that we can share with you, is video of an unlit Molotov cocktail that police tell us here at the scene was found hidden in a bush in this area. And they took that in, we watched them as they took that unlit Molotov cocktail, put it in an evidence can and then drove it away and taped it up.

Officers say they weren't sure if that's what was set the police car on fire, but that was one of the things that they found here as well as a handgun here in the crowd as well, Don.

LAVANDERA: Ed, thank you very much. I need to get to Sara Sidner now. Sara Sidner at Ferguson PD. People were running there. What's going on? Sara? SIDNER: The officers sprayed some pepper spray but before that there was some items that come flying towards them. You can see the shields are up and every time something comes flying towards them, whether it's a water bottle or whatever is being thrown, you can't quite make it out here, because it's getting quite dark -- but whenever something is thrown and if there's enough activity out here, and enough aggression, then the police have been responding. They just responded with quite a bit of pepper spray and that's dispersed the crowd pretty quickly.

I want to give you some idea. It's really interesting. We've been out here for two months, right, watching this happen. And the crowd has really changed. It used to be that they did a lot of chanting, and you hear more of this than you would of just sort of quiet or just standing around and kind of being face to face with the police. But there is definitely a change in the folks in this crowd, definitely folks who I have not even out here for the past few months as we have been watching the scene every single night since then.

But of course you've got a difference in the who's out here as far as who is out protecting the police department, the National Guard. OK, so now you're seeing items being thrown.

POLICE LOUDSPAKER: Get on the sidewalks. You cannot be on the streets.

SIDNER: And you're hearing them say get on the sidewalks.

POLICE LOUDSPEAKER: You may assemble in the parking lot and on the sidewalks.

SIDNER: You can assemble in the parking lot they're saying. But you can't be in the street. We're going to back up because we moved a little bit off the payment ourselves.

LEMON: OK, Sara. Sara, we'll get back to you. Stay safe down there. Sara Sidner joining us from in front of the Ferguson Police Department.

So, as we watch these pictures, I want to bring my panel back in. Judge Alex Ferrer, Marc Lamont Hill, and also Van Jones. When last we spoke, gentlemen, we were watching the interview, George Stephanopoulos's interview with Officer with Darren Wilson.

And I want to bring in Van. The officer had not been heard from since this happened.

JONES: No.

LEMON: He of course testified in front of the grand jury and this is the first time he spoke publicly. What did you make of the conf -- he spoke about the confrontation between him and Michael Brown on Canfield Drive.

JONES: Look, my view on it is very, very straightforward. If that's a true story, he's totally justified. If it's a true story. But here's the problem, it took him six weeks to write that story down. Why? If that's a true story, why didn't he write it down right away and get it out? Six weeks. I've never heard that before.

LEMON: What do you mean, why didn't he write that down?

JONES: Because it took that long for the police report to be able to come forward. So that was very, very odd.

But here's the other thing. If what he said happened, happened, there would never have been a protest. African-Americans are very, very clear that if you're attacking a police officer and you get shot, that's on you. You would not have had 20 African-Americans so upset if someone was tackling aggressively, going after a police officer.

LEMON: Marc, do you buy that?

JONES: So something is wrong with this story because it does not line up with the crowd's reaction.

LEMON: Marc.

HILL: Yes, I agree with Van. And again I've spent some time on the ground. I've spoken to many people who claim to have intimate knowledge of it, some people who say they're eyewitnesses. It doesn't corroborate. Again, as Van said, it took him six weeks to get that down. If you -- when police have shoots or when there are claims of police brutality, the police give other police officers the opportunity to write their story in relation to the evidence, in relation to the claims that other people made. So he had time to craft a very particular story.

And finally, for me, Darren Wilson's story sounds very much like George Zimmerman's story and every other story. There's this super Hulk Hogan-like Negro who comes into the world, who somehow is so strong and formidable that even bullets can't stop them. And so I must kill him. And the problem with this is that it plays into the imaginations and the minds of people who actually believe that. So white supremacist anger and fear of black bodies becomes codified such that people say oh, yes, that's a reasonable response.

LEMON: Well, Judge, Van doesn't buy the story, Marc doesn't buy the story. But members of the grand jury believed what the officer said, and they did not indict him. So what gives here?

FERRER: Well, let me say this. I don't know if he's telling the truth or not. I saw the interview with Stephanopoulos and he seems credible, but to be honest with you, I've had defendants in front of me who could lie to you with a straight face so I don't know.

Now, if what the prosecutor stated at his speech the other day when the announcement was made that the original witnesses that came forward, that have been interviewed by the media repeatedly, and that all say he shot him in the back, he had his hands up -- if he's really telling truth and I don't know about you, Don, I haven't made it through the 22 volumes of War and Peace I got dumped on me this morning, so I don't know if it's consistent with what he said. But if it actually is and those witnesses have been largely

discredited, have recanted their testimony, have said that they actually assumed certain things that they didn't actually see, and if it's true that six or seven African-American witnesses, to defeat the claim of possibly a racial motivation here have come forward, and given stories that corroborate the police officer's version -- and I did read one of the statements and one of the witnesses did corroborate him almost completely. If that's true, I agree with Van that he is 100 percent justified. As a police officer, I would have shot him whether he was white, black, Asian or otherwise under those circumstances.

LEMON: Judge, listen, and the evidence is the evidence. The grand jury has made a decision. We must abide by that decision. His story was credible enough for a grand jury to believe it and not to indict him. And we have to abide by that.

But there are those who are upset about it and they are protesting. They have every right to protest if they want to.

FERRER: Sure.

LEMON: They're doing it peacefully. You're looking at Los Angeles now where people are sitting down in the middle of the street. We're back on the other side of the break where we'll discuss this more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, live now with protests across the country. Sara Sidner in front of the Ferguson Police Department. Sara.

SINER: Right now, we're hearing the loudspeaker going off and they're saying to disperse now because of the items that were so thrown at police. And you're seeing the police move further and further into the crowds. OK, the crowds are starting to move. But let's just show the scene on this side. These are all the people who have been here outside of the police department. They're all starting to move and the officers in white here are coming around and pushing the crowd out of the Andy Worm (ph) Tire and Reel (ph) parking lot, which is where these protests have gone on for literally more than 100 days.

People are moving to all different sides, moving out of the area. This is the first time I've actually seen officers that have come this far into the parking lot usually. This is where everybody has been gathering. But we're all being told to sort of move out and disperse because of some of the items -- the water bottles that we were seeing earlier thrown towards the police.

You can still see the National Guard standing there. There are far more members of the National Guard than we have seen in the past two, three hours. We're seeing more and more members coming out in riot gear. And then on the front lines you can see the police department out here, both the St. Louis County and this highway patrol, we've been seeing them here for much of the night. But they basically said you have to disperse now. This is an unlawful assembly because of the items that were thrown at officers about 15, 20 minutes ago. LEMON: Hey Sara, can I ask you something? Because earlier Jason was

on and we heard police saying, listen, you've got to disperse, telling protesters they had to get off the streets or they would be subject to arrest. But they're still on the streets. Are they still trying to just clear people, to get them to go home, or are they just telling them to get on the sidewalks?

SIDNER: No, no. This is different. Yes, this is different. They're not saying go to the sidewalk. They're telling people to disperse. And people are say we're not going to disperse, that we have a right to assemble. The police responding saying, well, you're throwing things at officers so we are going to have you disperse. They're not saying just get out of the street. They're saying disperse now. This is an unlawful assembly, a very different thing than saying get on the sidewalks, get out of the street.

LEMON: And we are seeing arrests. Stand by, Sara Sidner. We'll get back to you right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now with our live breaking news coverage of the protests that are happening all across the country. The protests in Ferguson, Missouri, now that you're looking at have been playing out for quite some time. It started off very peacefully this evening, and then about halfway through, just a couple of hours ago, maybe two or three hours ago, it devolved into something that is not quite so peaceful.

Someone torched a police cruiser. As they did, they torched two last night. But, again, the unrest here not nearly as bad as it was last evening. And to help me drive the point home, considering the number of protests across the country, the amount of unrest here in Ferguson has been minimal, considering.

JONES: Considering. Absolutely. This is what the family wanted. Mike Brown's family said they wanted peaceful protests. They didn't get it last night; they did get it tonight. That's a testament, testimony to the young people across the country who tried to do it the right way tonight.

LEMON: All right, Van Jones, thank you for helping me go through all of our coverage, again, in major cities all across the country. Portland, San Francisco, Oakland, Boston, New York City, Atlanta, Georgia, Denver. There have been protests going on. Again, most of them peaceful. But as you're looking at some of the pictures coming in from Oakland there, you can see some of the -- there's some altercations with police officers, as there have been with Ferguson as well.

I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining me this evening. Our coverage continues now with Errol Barnett, Rosemary Church, at the CNN center in Atlanta.