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CONNECT THE WORLD
No Indictment for Officer Darren Wilson; Tackling Racial Tensions; Erdogan Comments About Women Stir Controversy; #Influencer2014 Highlights Abdel Fattah el-Sisi; Parting Shots: Fury in Ferguson
Aired November 25, 2014 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, HOST: After a night of anger and arrest the U.S. town of Ferguson, Missouri is scarred by visible signs of violence. We'll take you
there live for the very latest on the protests and their aftermath.
Also ahead, several other U.S. cities see demonstrations over the decision not to charge a police officer in the death of Michael Brown. And
more rallies are planned for this Tuesday.
Also, a new report says the UK intelligence services could not have prevented a brutal daylight killing of a British soldier even though his
murderers had been on their radar.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World.
FOSTER: The governor of Missouri has ordered more National Guard forces to the city of Ferguson after a grand jury decided not to indict a
white police officer for killing an unarmed African-American teenager.
This is what Ferguson looked like today after a night of violent protests, looting and gunfire. Several businesses and cars were set ablaze
whilst police responded with tear gas. At least 29 people were arrested.
Stephanie Elam reports on the reaction in Missouri and beyond.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Peaceful protests erupting into chaos after the announcement of no indictment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you saying? That our lives are not equal worthy, our lives are not worthy of even a day in court? That's what you
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's another example of a miscarriage of justice.
ELAM: Angry protesters clashing with police, hurling bottles, rocks and bricks at officers and the media.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...right now. It's that kind of scene out here right now.
ELAM: Protesters attacking police cars, shattering the window of this cruiser, as cops run in with guns drawn to disperse them. But mayhem on
the streets, looking like a war zone, gunshots ringing out throughout the night, flames engulfing several police cars, buildings ablaze, roaring out
of control, some burning to the ground. Firefighters stretched thin with the number of Fires erupting and moving out fearing their own safety.
Widespread looting, several businesses vandalized, including Ferguson Market & Liquor, where Brown had allegedly stolen cigars before his death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get out of the street or you will be subject to arrest.
ELAM: Police in riot gear and armored trucks, firing tear gas and smoke bombs into crowds refusing to disperse, forcing demonstrators to run.
Anger and frustration about the grand jury decision spreading across the country...
CROWD: Don't shoot
CRO: Hands up.
CROWD: Don't shoot.
ELAM: Protesters in Chicago, facing off with police as they voice their anger. In New York, Massive crowds marching through Manhattan,
reaching three major bridges, with one known arrest.
Protesters in Times Square even throwing fake blood at New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton.
Demonstrators gathering outside the White House, weaving together on the ground along Pennsylvania Avenue.
In Oakland, California, protesters shut down the expressway, lying down inside chalk outlines drawn on the streets.
A similar scene in Seattle, where demonstrators dropped to the ground. The man who simmered tensions this summer, urging restraint in the
aftermath of chaos.
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: We definitely have done something here that's going to impact our community for a long time.
That's not how we create change; change is created through our voice and not due to destruction of our community.
ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Ferguson, Missouri.
FOSTER: Evan Perez joins us live from Ferguson, Missouri with the very latest for us now. And I know you've gone through the city, haven't
you? What did you see today?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, you know, everywhere you go this morning you see -- you hear the sound of glass being cleaned up.
There are people, customers who are trying to help, business owners, neighbors who are trying to help business owners by both buying things this
morning and also trying to help them clean up their businesses.
You know, you can tell that there is a lot of anger over what happened here last night. It's just really -- you know, these business owners are
inconsolable because they don't understand why they were targeted.
FOSTER: Where is this anger coming from today as the news sinks in? Because I know there's some concerns about the legal system failing the
Brown family, but there was a huge amount of effort that went into this legal process at the same time.
PEREZ: There was. And you know not that there was a great huge surprise. It's almost remarkable to me. I was inside the press conference
where the prosecutor was announcing what the decision of the grand jury was. And as he spoke the streets were exploding across town in Ferguson.
And it almost was these -- the people that were causing the problems, they were just waiting, they were just waiting for the moment for this decision
to be announced.
It wasn't a huge surprise, frankly, because the prosecutor had -- the way he did this case, Max, you know, he basically presented every bit of
evidence to the grand jury, which is not typically how this is done. And you can tell from looking at the grand jury information, you can tell that
the big difference was the testimony from Officer Darren Wilson. He gets to tell his side of the story without really much pushback from the
prosecutor. And so a lot of people are angry that in some ways the system was rigged for this officer to be found -- to be cleared really of any
FOSTER: How do you think they can be reassured from speaking over the course of the day?
PEREZ: Well, you know, there is still another investigation. The federal government, the Justice Department in Washington is still doing an
investigation. That one is still ongoing. To be honest, it's likely not going to turn out any better. It's an even higher bar for them to bring
any charges. There's a lot of work from community people who are trying to make sure people get reassured, that they shouldn't be protesting
violently, that they need to let their voices be heard but they don't need to be doing destroying businesses, because really it's only hurting their
FOSTER: Are people there talking about more demonstrations tonight and in nights to come?
PEREZ: We -- right, we do expect -- it's quiet right now. The streets are quiet. People are cleaning up. But, you know, when night
falls, we expect that there will be some more protests. We already had some over near where the grand jury was meeting in the county seat, the
Clayton, Missouri, which is a majority white area of this region.
So we expect probably some more marches tonight. Hopefully, hopefully there will be a lot less violent.
FOSTER: Evan Perez, we'll stay with you and come back to you as we get more updates. Thank you very much indeed.
Well, the Ferguson case has prompted a discussion on race across the United States. President Barack Obama addressed some of the larger issues
as he called for calm after the grand jury's decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need to recognize that the situation in Ferguson speaks to broader challenges that we still
face as a nation.
The fact is in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the
result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic, because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with
higher crime rates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: You've been hearing how overnight stores were burned, windows smashed, police cars set on fire in Ferguson despite pleas for protesters
not to resort to violence. The mayor of nearby St. Louis called the response a major setback for the community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCIS SLAY, MAYOR OF ST. LOUIS: I want to first and foremost condemn the terrible violence that occurred in Ferguson. It's
unacceptable. It's wrong. The vast majority of people living in our region condemn it as well. And I think the unfortunate part about it is
what that violence does. Is it -- not only puts a black eye on our community, but it sets -- it really sets back the cause of social justice.
Violence doesn't solve anything. And if we're going to have real change in this community, it's going to take all of us working together and
not committing violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: We'll have much more on the unrest in Ferguson later in the hour, including analysis of how the grand jury's decision might impact
racial tensions in Ferguson and elsewhere in the U.S. We'll also return live to Ferguson for you to find out what's next for officer Darren Wilson
and take a look at what he told the grand jury about the events leading up to the fatal shooting.
Now it was a horrific assault on the streets of London, a British soldier hacked to death. Now a year-and-a-half after the murder of Lee
Rigby, a new report says UK security agencies could not have stopped the attack based on what they knew at the time. The two men convicted of the
murder received lengthy prison sentences earlier this year.
For more, on the report I'm joined by Atika Shubert. This was the official report into this. And it does seem to exonerate the security
services, but criticize them at the same time
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly.
I mean, it's 200 pages. It's a big report. And that's minus what's been redacted for national security. They've gone through hundreds of
documents, classified primary sources documents from MI5, but the fact is there wasn't much of an evidence trail left behind by these two killers,
Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale. So basically this report says given what they knew, even though a number of errors were made they simply
didn't have enough information to have stopped this attack.
The only thing, they say, that may have stopped it was this online exchange. Take a listen to what Malcolm Rifkind, the head of the committee
said to parliament today about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALCOLM RIFKIND, CHAIR, UK PARLIAMENT INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMITTEE: There was, as the prime minister indicated one online exchange,
which came to knowledge some months after the murder of a Lee Rigby, which revealed that Mr. Adebowale months before the murder had discussed his
desire to kill a soldier and made various other comments, which we referred to in the report.
And if that exchange had been known, that is the one hard piece of hard evidence we have seen. But if that had been available to the
intelligence agencies at the time, that -- then it is at least possible that the murder of Fusilier Rigby could have been avoided.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHUBERT: Now this was an online exchange on a U.S. service provider. They wouldn't name the service provider there, but they did, as a result of
the research, talk to Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo and all of them said they don't actively monitor users' accounts there for a number of
reasons -- the volume, but also issues of privacy. And this is something that's now being flagged up by British security here about whether or not
there should be a method in which that kind of data is harvested much more quickly to prevent future attacks.
What sort of pressure are the security services under in this country? Because obviously there was this piece of intelligence out there which they
missed but emerged eventually. There's a problem in the system here, isn't there? It's not just to do with privacy, it's the fact that they didn't
manage to find that intelligence.
SHUBERT: Well, the problem is, consider, that they are monitoring thousands of suspects -- or I shouldn't say suspects, but individuals of
interest across the country. These are individuals involved in extremist networks. So it's hard to keep track of who may be the most important one
-- Adebowale, Adebolajo were on the periphery of these sort of circles. So they knew they were somehow linked, but didn't know they were going to
carry out the attack.
The other problem is, in this particular case, it doesn't look like there was a lot of planning involved, there was no real footprint left
behind by these two killers. And so it was difficult for them to prevent an attack when they never discussed it.
So these are the problems that they're facing. They're hoping that by looking into the digital side of it they'll be able to prevent more
attacks, but that's very difficult to say. If they're not having a conversation online, how can you stop -- know to prevent it from happening?
FOSTER: And MI6 criticized because they saw a solution as just deporting him at one point, right, but that obviously isn't a solution when
we now know these attacks happen on home turf as well.
SHUBERT: Well, this is exactly the problem. In the case of Abebolajo, for example, he was arrested in Kenya and allowed back into the
country upon his return. He was monitored. In fact, he was even attempted to be recruited by MI5 several times. So this is something that they were
aware of him, but they just didn't realize that he may carry out an attack like this. And he gave no indication that he intended to.
FOSTER: But you feel that they've learned something from this process, do you think, the intelligence community?
SHUBERT: Well, definitely there were things that were highlighted, mistakes that were made, delays in processing and those were all things
they say they were going to work on now.
FOSTER: Atika, thank you very much indeed.
ISIS has released a new propaganda video, chilling in a different way from its others. The slickly produced video appears to show ISIS militants
training some 30 children in a camp thought to be in Iraq. ISIS calls them the cubs of the caliphate.
The training appears to involved martial arts kicking and boxing. The children are also being trained to set up ambushes and storm houses and
buildings. CNN can't independently verify the video.
Still to come this hour, the Turkish president finds himself in the middle of new controversy. We'll tell you why women are so angry about
what he said. That's in about 30 minutes from now.
But, first, what's next for Iran now that nuclear talks have been extended. We'll get reaction from Tehran and talk with the head of the UN
FOSTER: You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me Max Foster. Becky off today, but welcome back to you.
Iran and world powers are planning to return to the negotiating table next month to work towards a deal on Tehran's nuclear program. They missed
the Monday deadline and now plan to keep talking through at least June.
Both sides say they're making progress, but U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says there's still a tough road ahead. Iran maintains that it's
nuclear activities are peaceful and says it does not want to make nuclear weapons.
According to wire reports, Iran's influential supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said in a tweet that arrogant powers would not bring
Iran to its knees. But CNN's Reza Sayah tells us that Iranians appear hopeful a deal will be struck and crippling sanctions will end.
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On the day after Iran and the world powers failed to reach a nuclear agreement, gray, dreary
skies cover a rain-soaked capital Tehran.
You would think Iranians would be just as gloomy as the weather. After all, every Iranian we spoke to said they wanted an agreement, they
wanted an end to sanctions and better relations with the west.
But throughout Tehran, pride and optimism seemed to triumph over doom and gloom.
His downtown shop where he's been sowing banners for seven years, Reza Hadji Mohammed (ph) was proud that Iran didn't give up its right to its
nuclear energy program.
"All countries have a right to nuclear energy, so we should, too," he says. "Eventually, an agreement will happen."
"If we stay hopeful and an agreement is eventually signed it will benefit all of us," says Farzah Najavohari (ph).
At his fruit juice stand, Masou Davishpur (ph) says inflation has cut 40 percent into his profits. But he's hopeful an agreement and a better
economy is not too far away.
"I hope they eventually reach a deal that benefits both sides so people can live in peace," he says.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are going to be better, but it takes time. Maybe a few months. We are hopeful.
SAYAH: Do you still have hope that they'll reach an agreement?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, definitely I have.
SAYAH: Even newspaper headlines have an upbeat tone, no criticism of Washington and the west. This one says an agreement between Iran and the
P5+1 to continue to talk. And this one says another chance for diplomacy.
No one, it seems, had a more upbeat tone than Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.
"Our future is bright in these negotiations," Rouhani said in a taped interview that aired on state TV. "I have no doubt the Iranian people will
During his presidency, Mr. Rouhani has promised Iranians a nuclear agreement and a lifting of the sanctions. Even though he has yet to
deliver no that promise, may here still support him and seem to be willing to give him some more time.
However, if the next nuclear deadline and July 2015 comes and goes and there's still no deal, that patience with Mr. Rouhani could run thin and
optimism here could start fading away.
Reza Sayah, CNN, Tehran.
FOSTER: Under an interim deal reached a year ago, the west has temporarily eased some sanctions, and in return Iran agreed to stop some of
its most sensitive nuclear work. So is it complying? What happens next?
Yukiya Amano is director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He joins me from Vienna. Thank you very much indeed for joining
How will your work be affected by these extension of talks?
YUKYA AMANO, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, IAEA: The IAEA will be asked to implement an agreement of joint plan of action. We had hoped that P5+1 and
Iran would reach an agreement, but it is understandable that it will take time.
The IAEA has been addressing this issue of Iran nuclear issues for more than 10 years, but we cannot still give the assurance that all of the
activities in Iran is in peaceful purpose.
We have two problems. One is that Iran is not fully cooperating with the agency to clarify the information that may have military aspect.
Another problem with that, Iran is not allowing us to implement more powerful verification tool, which is called additional protocol.
Agreement was not reached and that more is still in play, which is good news.
We ask Iran to fully cooperate with us so that we can provide the assurance that all the activities in Iran is in peaceful purpose.
FOSTER: They obviously insist it is for peaceful purpose. There are suspicions that this could be a delaying tactic while they continue
enrichment for military purpose. But is there any evidence from what you've seen that that may be the case that they do have a military program
underway in a secret location you know nothing about?
AMANO: The job of the IAEA is to verify the facts. That's why we are asking Iran to fully cooperate with us to clarify the information and also
we are asking them to let us implement more powerful verification tools.
FOSTER: But you're not getting that information so you can't be sure what they are doing, am I correct?
AMANO: For now, we can not give the assurance that all the activities in Iran is in peaceful purpose. If and when the comprehensive agreement is
reached, that will help the IAEA to do its job. But it will take time.
FOSTER: So in terms of any enrichment processes that are going on, you have received information on, what can you categorically say about any
enrichment program currently underway in Iran?
AMANO: Iran is implementing in the agreement in the joint plan of action and we can verify that they are honoring the commitment that they
have made. And we gave the assurance every month.
But the problem is that we cannot yet give the assurance that all the nuclear activities in Iran is in peaceful purpose. We cannot yet give a
clean bill of health.
FOSTER: Presumably you need the access to the sites as well to give that clean bill of health and what sort of access are you being given?
AMANO: Having access to cite people and document is very important. That will help us to have better understanding of the issue. That is why
this comprehensive agreement is important.
But we, for now, we are not yet at that stage. Still, we need to continue to work. We are requesting Iran to fully cooperate with us so
that we can give the assurance that all the nuclear activities in Iran is in peaceful purpose.
FOSTER: Mr. Amano, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Now when world powers talk to Tehran these days, it's not just nuclear matters on their minds. And you can go online to find a wealth of analysis
about the ongoing importance of these negotiations. Two experts tell us why improving relations with Iran could prove vital in the fight against
ISIS. And you can find it all at CNN.com/international.
Live from London, this is Connect the World. Coming up, we'll go back live to Ferguson, Missouri where racial divisions are being pushed to the
forefront. But will the violence overshadow the roots of the problem?
And a property fit for a president and now ambassadors. We'll visit a grand residents high over Tbilisi, Georgia. That's next on One Square
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tbilisi, a fifth century city where today modern structures stand side by side with the ancient. A 10-
minute drive up the mountain, I explored a vast landscape of canyons and a panoramic view of the city below. It's all part of Kirsenizi Residence
(ph), purchased on Christmas Eve 2004 by Swiss financier Ron Waldman.
RON WALDMAN, FINANCIER: It was my first visit to Georgia. I fell in love with the property and I fell in love with the country.
DEFTERIOS: It remains a big long-term commitment, 400,000 square meters of land.
WALDMAN: Here you have unbelievable trees, any fruit you can conceivably think of.
DEFTERIOS: He outbid a Russian oligarch by offering $16 million. A year later, he fell in love with his Georgian wife Maya (ph). They showed
us the centerpiece of the property, the historic Baria House (ph), once the official residence for the country's president Eduard Shevardnadze.
WALDMAN: It's astonishing who has walked through these doors, from the pope to every president -- Nixon, George W. Bush was here in 2005.
DEFTERIOS: This entire complex has a colorful past and retains a spot in Soviet history. This house was built in 1960 for Nikita Khrushchev, the
first secretary of the Communist Party. It remained his summer residence, or dacha (ph). It is now the home to the French embassy.
Creating an embassy row was the first order of business by Waldman. The property also houses the British embassy, three others, and an EU
WALDMAN: Embassies of this magnitude, give a good impression to the people and to the visitors and to the international community that this is
a safe and sound place.
DEFTERIOS: He has sunk another $15 million to prepare for the next phase. A Georgian developer recently closed no this parcel of land, 26,000
square meters to put up to 50 villas.
In a cafe at the heart of Tbilisi, I met with property consultant Levan Gvaramadze who said that Waldman needs to pick his developers very
LEVAN GVARAMADZE: When you buy there you understand that this in some 10 years is this will be how this property will look? You buy this promise
and you need to be safe with this promise.
DEFTERIOS: A promise the owner needs to keep to make back his now decade-long investment.
John Defterios, CNN, Tbilisi, Georgia.
FOSTER: This is CONNECT THE WORLD, the top stories this hour. Twin suicide bombings rock a busy marketplace in Nigeria. It happened in the
town Maiduguri in the northeastern Borno state where the militant group Boko Haram is very active. Dozens of bodies were counted at he scene.
Both of the bombers were women.
There were clashes in Hong Kong when police helped clear a pro- democracy protest site. It happened in the district known as Mong Kok. Authorities were acting on a court order. Police say at least 80 people
were arrested, including a well-known activist and lawmaker.
Stores in the city of Ferguson, Missouri, are still smoldering after violent protests overnight. The chaos followed a grand jury's decision not
to indict a white police officer for killing an unarmed black teenager. Missouri's governor is sending more national guard troops to the city in
case of further violence.
The family of Michael Brown is expected to make a public statement in about 30 minutes. We plan to bring you that live.
Protests also erupted in other cities across the US. Most of them were peaceful compared to the violence in Ferguson. In New York City,
police say demonstrators knocked down barricades and shut down traffic.
Let's stay with that story now, because protesters returned to the streets of Ferguson on Tuesday, but in a much more subdued way. Ana
Cabrera joins us live from the heart of the protests there. Ana, are you able to describe the feelings there? Because it seems to be much bigger
now than just this one case. It seems to be a community sense of fury and frustration as well. How would you describe it?
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No doubt about it. It is much bigger than this one case. I think it's always been about issues that are much
larger than this one story. This case was a flash point in really uncovering some very deep wounds in this community of Ferguson, Missouri, a
small town of only 22,000, but really resonated what happened here with what's happening in cities all across the US.
A sense of racial division, oppression, that some of the African- Americans in this community have been feeling not recently but for decades. And so, that's how deep of an issue this really is. The reason we're
seeing such an overwhelming emotional response to each stage of this particular case.
Of course, last night's developments with the announcement that there was going to be no indictment in this case is really what set off a new
round of unrest. You can see here behind me this morning, it's a sunny day, cars are moving through.
Right behind me is the police department in Ferguson. This, where I'm standing, is where there were hundreds of protesters gathered last night,
where some of that unrest that resulted in violence began. I can tell you having walked and driven this street today, there are several buildings
with broken windows, people who are cleaning up here today.
And one thing that so many people want to know or to see is the officer at the center of this case. He has been completely silent all
along and has lived his life largely in secrecy since that August 9th shooting.
We are now hearing his side of the story, however, for the very first time through his own eyes as he told it to the grand jurors.
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against Officer
CABRERA (voice-over): A bombshell announcement with big implications: no indictment against 28-year-old Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.
MCCULLOCH: The physical and scientific evidence examined by the grand jury, combined with the witness statements supported and substantiated by
that physical evidence, tells the accurate and tragic story of what happened.
CABRERA: Overnight, the prosecutor releasing the contents of the entire case, including these photos of a bruised Wilson indicating a
struggle with the unarmed teen. Silent since the August 9th incident, we are now hearing from Wilson in his own words through his testimony about
the day he fatally shot Michael Brown.
He says Brown assaulted him while he was still inside his vehicle, and that he had never used his weapon before. He said, quote, "I felt that
another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse. I have already taken two to the face, and I didn't think I would. The third one
could be fatal if he hit me right." Wilson has been in hiding for the last three months.
With anger and frustration erupting across the region following the decision not to indict, Wilson's lawyer releasing a statement saying in
part, "Law enforcement personnel must frequently make split-second and difficult decisions. Officer Wilson followed his training and followed the
Sources tell CNN the four-year veteran of the Ferguson Police Department, who's been out on paid administrative leave, now has plans to
resign. Through the controversy, Wilson managed to keep his personal life private. Even his recent marriage to a fellow Ferguson police officer.
His St. Louis County marriage license says the two wed on October 24th in Oakland, Missouri, some 15 miles south of Ferguson. The couple
reportedly share a home in St. Louis. This is his second marriage, her first. But what the future holds for them is unclear.
CABRERA: There have been numerous requests by CNN, by other agencies, to do interviews with Officer Wilson and his attorneys all along throughout
this process. He has declined those requests, not even releasing so much as a statement. So now we'll see if he's a little bit more open to those
potential interviews in the days ahead. Max?
FOSTER: OK, Ana, thank you very much, indeed. A CNN poll done several days before we heard the decision shows how race plays a role in
how Americans view the case. Among all responders, just under a third said Wilson should be indicted for murder, 25 percent believed he should be
indicted on a lesser charge, and about a fifth didn't think he should be indicted at all.
But if we break those numbers down by race, we get a very different picture. Just 23 percent of white Americans thought Wilson should be
charged with murder. That number more than doubles amongst non-white responders.
But the same percentages opted for a lesser crime, a quarter, give or take, but 38 percent of white Americans surveyed don't think Wilson should
be charged with any crime. Compare that to just 15 percent of non-white Americans polled.
Joining me now to talk about some of the racial issues that have emerged in the Ferguson case is David Lammy. He's a British MP who helped
the Tottenham community heal after riots following the police shooting to death of a young black man three years ago, Mark Duggan. Thank you very
much, indeed, for joining us.
Are there similarities, would you say, between the Tottenham riot that you dealt with and what you're seeing in Ferguson right now?
DAVID LAMMY, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Sure. Look, all riots, wherever they are in the world -- there have been riots in Sydney, there
were riots in Swede. And of course, I had four days of rioting in -- began in North London, but spread across the United Kingdom in 2011.
All of them start with an act of oppression that is usually a perceived act of oppression by the police or the armed forces in some way.
And the important thing to bring about healing is understanding the deep grievance of communities that usually is built up over many, many
years. A sense in which in people don't feel that they have a stake in society. And a sense in which they do not trust the institutions charged
with delivering justice.
Here in Ferguson, you had a grand jury, but I understand 9 of the 12 members of that grand jury are white and only three were black in a very,
very diverse area. And of course, that breeds the distrust at the judgment that they have reached.
In order to deal with that, you have to have a mechanism for some independent process. In the UK, it's usually an independent review by
someone senior, a respected public figure. You've got to have cross-party support for that independent review.
And then you've got to have a government prepared to implement the findings of that review. In the American contract, that may be federal, of
course, but it's also on a state level.
FOSTER: There's a sense that lots of people want to see this man indicted. This huge legal process has come up with the opposite view. Do
you think that -- how do people get through this, those that are so angry in Ferguson and around America? How do they get through this with that
current result holding? What else can be done around this?
LAMMY: Well, I would urge colleagues in the United States to look hard and quickly at some mechanism of review of this entire case, and to do
that with a degree of urgency. In relation to this officer's indictment, I think this is extraordinarily difficult, now, because of course, it means
that what the officer said is never tested.
That the public themselves don't get to experience whether they think that what he did was right or wrong. That has been denied them, it has
been taken away from them. And I can understand that there now is tremendous frustration and tension in the community as a result.
So, my heart goes out to folk in Ferguson and to the United States, which I think tonight feels very, very divided as a consequence of this
FOSTER: From what you're saying, there'll be many communities around the world who will identify with the people in Ferguson who are
demonstrating today, feeling that they don't have a stake in the community, don't have a stake in the institutions running those communities.
Are lots of people in the community where you work talking about this, relating to this? Do you think that the concern could spread globally and
demonstrations be held globally on this?
LAMMY: Look, I do think that it is still the case that we live in a world where there is a sense that if you are of color, your life is less
important than, I'm afraid, if you are white. And that's what we're experiencing.
Clearly America has made extraordinary progress. America has a black president, that is hugely significant, and it's a man that I know from my
own experience of attending Harvard Law School.
Yet, what we see post-civil rights, I suspect, is because of a huge prison population. Because there are institutions still in parts of
American that are impenetrable to black people and African-Americans.
And indeed, when we come to other Western countries, and this would be true of the UK, there's progress still to be made in key areas of public
life. These grievances remain. They can bubble up, bubble over, and cause tremendous pain and mayhem as a result.
And the only way to get to grips with them is thorough review, that everyone has a sense of the stake in, that people begin to trust, and that
can command cross-party support, whether you're in the American context, a Republican or Democrat. In our country, it would obviously be a
Conservative or a Labour supporter. That's the only way to press forward in these cases.
FOSTER: Appreciate your time. David Lammy, thanks for joining us today. The coverage of Ferguson last night seemed at times like a non-stop
barrage of video that documented the unrest, but there were those moments that, for better or worse, defined the tensions.
We put together a collection of nine of them, and they range from video clips from inside looted stores to police making arrests. But stills
-- and also stills as well of first responders in front of burning buildings. It's all at cnn.com/international. Well worth a look.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, Turkey's president says men and women aren't equal by nature. His comments aren't
going over too well with a large part of his audience. You can guess who. That's next.
And the Turkish president is among the ten candidates in our search for the most significant figure in the Middle East this year. Coming up,
we'll give you a final chance to select your #Influencer2014.
FOSTER: You're watching CNN, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Max Foster. Becky is off today. But welcome back to you.
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan is in hot water once again. Many Turks are outraged by what he said at a gender conference on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): You cannot bring women and men into equal positions. That is against nature,
because their nature is different.
For example, in work life, you cannot impose the same conditions on a pregnant woman as a man. You cannot put a mother who needs to nurse her
baby equal to a man who doesn't have these responsibilities under the same situation.
You cannot make women work in every job man works, like the Communist regimes do. It is against her delicate nature.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, earlier this month, Mr. Erdogan was criticized for suggesting Muslims discovered America -- the Americas before Christopher
Columbus. Mr. Erdogan's popularity grew over the last decade as he put Turkey on the world stage, but could the president be driving it towards
To talk more on this, I'm joined by Elif Shafak. She's a Turkish author and a commentator. First of all, your response when you first heard
ELIF SHAFAK, TURKISH AUTHOR AND COMMENTATOR: Well, I was very upset and very disturbed, but I'm not surprised, because he has made similar
statements before, although not exactly in this context. He has spoken about abortion and he has mentioned that he doesn't quite believe in
equality. A few times, he has insinuated this. But of course, yesterday's comments were quite disturbing for all of us.
FOSTER: And what sort of reaction would there be in Turkey to this? Because in many other countries, Europe and the West, that would cause a
massive political backlash. But is there one now?
SHAFAK: That's the thing about Turkey. Over the years, I think Turkey became more and more polarized. So, the answer would change
depending on whom you're talking to. Unfortunately, each side became more consolidated.
So, if you ask his conservative base -- and I think he's directly addressing his own base -- there are many people, both men and women, who
would support him. But of course, in the other camp, the outrage is huge, people are very upset. Women clearly are very upset.
Also, to me, it's very disturbing that he points that out at feminists, accusing them of not appreciating motherhood, denigrating
feminism. That is a very easy thing to do.
FOSTER: Is he talking from the heart, do you think? Or is he playing to the audience, as you say, and just giving them something that they want
SHAFAK: You know, that's always the question. Is he playing to the gallery, or does he believe in this? But at the end of the day, maybe it
doesn't matter that much, because the outcome is equally damaging. It's equally hurtful for us women.
And let us not forget that Turkey is not doing well when it comes to gender rights, women's rights. We already have massive problems. It's a
country that has been ranked 125th among 142 countries, according to gender global report.
We have very few women's shelters. Rape is a big problem, domestic violence is a huge problem, and it has doubled in Turkey. And also, it's
one of those countries in which the rate of child brides is unfortunately very high.
So, we already have so many problems when it comes to gender issues. On top of that, when you make such statements, it only helps to increase
the existing sexism, homophobia, and patriarchy in the Turkish society.
FOSTER: OK. Well, thank you very much, indeed, for coming in and giving us your views on that. Certainly making a lot of talking points
As he makes the transition from PM to elected president, it's little surprise Mr. Erdogan makes the short list in our search for the Middle
East's most influential figure. He's joined there by another regional president who has caused quite a stir since he was elected in May.
That's Egyptian leader Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the military strongman tasked with turning his country's fortunes around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Egypt officially has its third president in as many years. Ex-military chief Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has been sworn in as
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to believe that a little more than a year ago, this was a relative unknown army chief
appointed by then-president Mohamed Morsy. Sisi ousted Mr. Morsy, and a year later, Sisi is the new president. Mohamed Morsy and a number of other
leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, they're in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: To make your selection, visit cnnarabic.com/influencer2014. You'll find summaries of all the candidates, and you can select three
finalists for a big debate in our town hall special. That's next month. Also, remember to use the hash tag #Influencer2014 if you're joining the
conversation on Twitter.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD (chanting): Don't shoot! Don't shoot!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: A night of anger, of disbelief, and of violence. A night that underlines racial tensions that still simmer in America. In today's
Parting Shots, we'll bring you the key sights and sounds of fiery night in Ferguson, Missouri.
FOSTER: We started the program in Ferguson, Missouri, and that's where we'll end it. In today's Parting Shots, a look back at a night when
many residents' worst fears were realized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I might want to move back. I might want to move back!
MCCULLOCH: They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against Officer Wilson and returned a no true bill on each of the
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Join Michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully.
(EMERGENCY VEHICLE SIREN)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to understand that this community has to be whole. And right now, this community is really fractured.
(EMERGENCY VEHICLE SIREN)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, I'm standing outside the McDonald's, and people are throwing stuff at me right now. People are
throwing stuff at me right now. It's that kind of scene out here right now.
(CAR HORNS HONKING)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm just south of the Ferguson Police Department. Right up here, you can see what is left of a vehicle
here that is on fire.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Teargas. Teargas. This teargas just dropped here. It's going to get very bad here if we don't have masks.
ELAM: Are you rolling, Sykes (ph)?
(EXPLOSION, POPPING SOUNDS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm rolling!
JON BELMAR, CHIEF, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: What I've seen tonight is probably much worse than the worst night we ever had in August. And
it's truly unfortunate.
(CAR HORNS HONKING)
ELAM: We are standing in front of the O'Reilly Auto Parts. You can see that it is burning, fully involved here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've had enough. Enough racism, enough bigotry. It's got to stop. It's killing us. It's killing our city, it's
killing our state, and it's killing our nation. We've got to stop.
FOSTER: The team at CONNECT THE WORLD want to hear from you, facebook.com/CNNconnect, have your say. You can tweet me as well,
@MaxFosterCNN. That was CONNECT THE WORLD.
The latest from Ferguson, Missouri is just ahead. Following a night of sometimes violent protest, the family of Michael Brown is expected to
make a public statement in a few moments. Robyn will bring that to you live. You're watching CNN.