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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Eruption of Violence in Ferguson; Michael Brown's Family to Hold News Conference; Ferguson Businesses Attacked

Aired November 25, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to a special edition of LEGAL VIEW.

Just moments from now, the parents of Michael Brown are expected to come before the cameras in St. Louis. And they're expected to talk about that grand jury verdict that they feel does not bring justice and certainly did not bring peace last night.

Daylight gave us certainly a full view as we await their words of just what happened after last night's verdict was read, of the damage from the night of explosive protests. Take a look at your screen. This is the aftermath, folks. It is not pretty. This is what the protests yielded.

In some cases, this was just wanton destruction that followed word that Michael Brown's killer, the person who shot him dead in Ferguson, a police officer named Darren Wilson, would face no criminal charges. There would be no indictment. So that's what led to this. And in the end, more than a dozen of this. One dozen-plus buildings in Ferguson burned, and nearby communities as well. They were torched. Many other businesses were looted. Police resorted to teargas and made more than 80 arrests across St. Louis County. And yet, what is perhaps remarkable is that no one was seriously hurt amidst what looked like total chaos and, for some people, absolute destruction of their livelihoods. There are many families today who will have to start all over, if they're even able to, after this kind of destruction.

My colleague, Chris Cuomo, saw for himself the worst night since Brown was shot dead on a Ferguson street August 9th.

You worked a very long night. I watched you as you came under fire, effectively, the teargas canisters started to come right into your location. You're now able to, after only two or three hours of sleep, assess what it looks like today and where things are going. Can you sort of bring me to Ferguson, Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Absolutely, Ashleigh. It's a pleasure being with you, as always.

Look, the sun is up. It's a beautiful day here. However, the situation continues. Buildings were burned well into this morning. A couple are still burning now, partly because of the size of the structures involved, partly because first responders weren't able to do their job effectively because of the violence last night. Jason Carroll was also with us out there right now. He's been surveying the damage all around the Ferguson area for us this morning. We'll be going to him in just a second.

And one of the things that was really -- that really stood out last night, Ashleigh, that you've touched on is, a lot of people talked about the L.A. riots. Oh, this has been like the L.A. riots. No, it hasn't. There are 100 people killed there. There were hundreds injured. This was nothing like that, thank God. And hopefully we don't see any continuation tonight that takes us in that direction.

And also those arrests that you talked about, one of the ongoing theories here is about outside agitators. And while that may be true and there's a lot of good reason to believe outsiders have been drawn to Ferguson as kind of a hot spot for discontent, we also know that many of those arrests last night were of people from Missouri, from this area. So it is a specific problem that they're dealing with here and they're going to have to figure out, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Chris, I want to ask you about - look, there were news conferences being held all throughout the night. There were so many live locations. At times it was hard to keep straight what was happening where, when there were explosions of, say, some of the products inside the beauty salon that were exploding and when it was gunfire.

But my colleague and your colleague, Deb Feyerick, brought something to my attention. A news conference at about 3:00 this morning in which the St. Louis police chief, Jon Belmar, said there were approximately 150 gunshots fired at the police, that they took fire, and that it began right after the verdict came down. And I know that it was probably very confusing from where you were with all the teargas canisters, et cetera. But could you hear that gunfire and did you think it was as significant as it was?

CUOMO: One hundred and fifty is a number I wouldn't have been able to identify, but I was only in one of about half a dozen hot spots that were going on last night. We heard lots of gunfire. At one point, we were pinned between the authorities and some malcontents up on a hill who were firing at them with small arms and they were returning with canisters of teargas. And the CNN crew was right in the middle. There's no question about that.

Now, some of that gunfire may have been directed among different factions or parties or people or groups that were there, not necessarily just at the police. We'd have to know a little bit more. Certainly that was the case back during the summer when it was going on here. There -- a lot of people have guns and a lot of people use them for the wrong reason. The good news is that nobody was hit last night, as far as we know. And that's remarkable given the different opportunities that were involved last night.

Jason Carroll has been, again, surveying the damage. I think we have him now.

Jason, nobody got a closer look than you did of what was going on last night, whether it was the police cruiser that they eventually had to just let burn because there was ammo inside and just too much risk to all the buildings and everything that went along with it. What are you seeing this morning, my friend?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Close look last night, Chris, as you did, and a close look again today. I want you to see what we're seeing as we came out here on West Florissant, came across one of the many buildings that was burned and looted. This used to be a beauty supply store. Next to it was a laundry mat. And this is all that's left, still smoldering from the fire that took this building last night.

Off in the distance there you can see that's West Florissant. It is blocked off, closed to foot traffic, closed to vehicles as well. We are told that it is an active crime scene, so they're not letting anyone in there now. That is where we saw so many of the buildings that were burned last night.

So today what we're seeing, Chris, is business owners, many of them small business owners, coming back to find this, to find their lives destroyed in just a few moments of anger that we saw last night. So many of these buildings burned, possessions gone, businesses ruined.

We saw some folks who came out here today to try to clean up, a lot of people scratching their heads wondering, what happened here? Wondering why so much anger was turned on, you know, small business owners who were serving the community. These are questions that this community is going to be dealing with and grappling with for months and possibly even years to come.

Chris.

CUOMO: And part of the shame, obviously, Jason, is that they need these businesses here in this community. The community needs as much robust, positive influence as it can have for commerce, for job base and a lot of the underpinning issues that go into the -- what happens when you have a crime problem. And as they say, violence has no conscience and there's so many people who there were no reason to be targeted and now they're going to have to rebuild their lives if they can rebuild at all.

Thank you for the reporting, my friend, we'll be back to you and I'm sure I'll see you around here later in the day.

Don Lemon was my partner for most of the night last night. And he is standing by at the press conference at a church for the Brown family. Very important people in this community, especially now. They gave a very specific message last night for there to not be violence so that their son's life could have a legacy of something positive. And that was not heeded at all last night, Don Lemon. It will be interesting to hear what the family says today to hopefully implore people to do better.

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely right. We're here at the Greater St. Mark Church in Ferguson, Missouri, and the family about to hold a press conference very shortly here and we're going to carry that for you as soon as they come up. The list of speakers who are included here, of course, Benjamin Crump, who's the Michael Brown family attorney, also Mark Morell (ph) of the Urban League, as well as Reverend Al Sharpton, for the National Action Network, Anthony Gray, one of the family attorneys as well, and then Michael Brown Sr.

But you're right, Chris, all along the family of Michael Brown, Michael Brown Sr. and the mother, they have been saying that they wanted the protests to be peaceful. They didn't want violence. They didn't want what happened last night. Unfortunately, some people did not heed their callings and their yearnings for peace last night. And so, again, we're interested to hear what their response will be to the violence and what their response will be to the decision that the grand jury made, not indicting the officer, Officer Darren Wilson, in the shooting death of their loved one, Michael Brown, an unarmed teenager.

So, again, we're awaiting word from the press conference now. And also we need to say this. Some video that is out there that has been reported by other news organizations of Michael Brown's mother and Michael Brown's father, Louis Head, the mother, of course, in grief on top of a car, not saying anything really out of the ordinary, saying, you know, you don't know me. All I ever wanted is peace. I've never done anything -- anybody any wrong. But then the father steps in and hugs her and then the father says, you know, we're going to burn this whatever down, using expletives. And so those comments have come into question today.

The video has been out there. CNN will air it very shortly. I'm not sure if we have the video. But we do have a response on the video, not specifically to the father's comments. But I will give you a response before you actually see the video. This is a response and this comes from Benjamin Crump, the family's attorney. Doesn't really address the father specifically, Louis Head, comments but here's what it says.

"Lesley McSpadden's immediate, raw reaction, which was caught on video following the grand jury announcement, is borne out of desperation and was a result of the epitome of frustration that the killer of her son would not be brought to justice. As a Ferguson resident, she understands the need for healing in the community and wants to be a positive catalyst for change."

And I have asked the family for further response and specifically for the father, Louis Head.

Here's the video. Let's take a look at it, Chris, and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: I've been hurt my whole life. I ain't never had to talk to him (ph), not like this. Don't none of y'all know me, but I don't do nothing to nobody. Anybody say so, they're a liar. They're a damn liar.

(CROSS TALK) MCSPADDEN: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, for real, like just a minute (INAUDIBLE), you know, give her a minute.

(CROSS TALK)

LOUIS HEAD, MICHAEL BROWN'S STEPFATHER: Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this place down! (INAUDIBLE). Burn this place down! Burn this place down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And again, I want to reiterate, that is the stepfather - the stepfather of Michael Brown Jr., the stepfather. The father, of course, Michael Brown Sr., all along urging peace. But those comments were caught on camera last night for the family. And, understandably, you can understand a mother's grief after losing a child, regardless of the circumstance, any mother, any mother would be in grief. And you don't know how someone is going to react.

What is coming into question today, though, is the stepfather's comments considering all the violence and the uproar and the burning and the looting last night, whether that was - that instigated part of it, of them being out in the crowd, of him being out in the crowd using expletives saying, you know, we're going to burn this you know what down.

Again, the response coming from the family attorney, Benjamin Crump, says - and he's responding specifically to the mother, not the stepfather here, saying that Lesley McSpadden's "immediate raw reaction, which was caught on video following the grand jury announcement, was borne out of desperation and was a result of the epitome of frustration that the killer of her son would not be brought to justice. As a Ferguson resident, she understands the need for healing in the community and wants to be a positive catalyst for change."

Again, they're not addressing Louis Head, the stepfather. Those comments, when I spoke with Benjamin Crump earlier, he said it was unfortunate. He wanted to give a comment on camera before we ran that video, understandably. And he is going to address that, according to our conversation, address it in this press conference. So I'll ask him, if I get the opportunity to ask him about the press conference specifically about Louis Head's comments.

Again, the concern, Chris, because of, you know, all the violence that we saw last night, whether it was appropriate for the stepfather of, you know, the young man who died to be speaking in those terms. But as we understand, there's a lot of raw emotion. So we just want to get on the record and get it clarified.

Again, we're waiting for this press conference and as soon as it happens, we'll bring it to you.

Chris.

CUOMO: Well, look, pain often brings anger.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: I don't know what the general - Counsel Crump is going to be able to say to explain away what the stepfather said. I mean it pretty much speaks for itself. Ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. And the unfortunate thing is that the man said what he said and we know what followed after that, Don. You and I both heard about what happened after it.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And it just goes to how big an influence the family has right now and hopefully that can be used, that influence, today to try to make the situation better. And it's asking a lot of them. Really, you know, the Brown family has lost the most in this situation right now. And, frankly, to ask them to be the best of what is in human nature is a difficult thing to ask. But that is something that they seem to want to shoulder in the past and certainly the community needs it very much right now.

LEMON: Yes. And, again, as you've said, ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances. And none of us can walk in the shoes of the Brown family. We don't know what it's like to lose a loved one and to have -- not only to lose a loved one. I mean many of us have lost people in our lives. But then to have the whole world watching your reaction and have the whole world involved in this, that's a lot of pressure. I'm not saying - listen, I'm not making excuses for the stepfather at all, not by any means, but, again, until you walk in someone's shoes, you don't know what they're dealing with.

I'm not sure how the family attorney, exactly right, can explain away those comments because we were out there, we saw the aftermath. Many people today don't have businesses, don't have livelihoods because their stores were either looted or burned. It's gone. And to rile up a crowd and say, you know, we're going to burn this down, it doesn't really help the situation. So at least we want - you know, try to get some clarification for that and see what the family, or at least the family representative has to say about it when we question them, Chris.

CUOMO: Oh, absolutely. And we'll hear what Mr. Crump has to say. But, again, it's a situation that's not going to be explained away. It is what it is. But the situation is also much bigger than the Brown family. Certainly outrage is here. Don, we'll check back in with you when that press conference is starting. Give us - give us a hint so that we can get in there early and let people hear what the message is.

Right now, let's use the opportunity to take a break. When we come back, we'll get you that word from the Brown family. We'll also take on the issues of why the grand jury decided what it did. We have the record now. We have the testimony specifically of Officer Darren Wilson. It probably loomed largest. What's next for him and, most importantly, what's next for this community? What are we looking at tonight? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The event that started everything last night was obvious, the word that the grand jury would not indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of unarmed teen Michael Brown. But what followed then took on a life of its own. There was destruction in this community like they have not seen before. There was response by authorities like they have not seen before. And the question is, where does it lead? How do we understand what happened in the grand jury? What will this mean for Officer Wilson? But really the larger question is, what is it going to mean for this community?

And so many people have been living this story. And we have Evan Perez.

Certainly you've been living it, understanding the legal issues, but also the practical ones here. And as we've talked often, at the end of the day, the media will leave.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Right.

CUOMO: The politicians will go about their business. This community will largely be left to itself to heal and find a way forward. And that was greatly disturbed last night by the destruction of property -

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: Specifically the stores that were attacked, many of them local businesses.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly, Chris. You know, this morning, I took a drive down Florissant Road in -- which is downtown of Ferguson. I ran into a business owner who I know. Her name is Kathy Jenkins (ph). She owns Kathy's Kitchen. It's a very popular restaurant, diner in downtown. She was cleaning up. You know, she had her customers there who showed up to help her clean up. And what she told me was, was remarkable. You know, she empathizes with the struggles of the community with the police. She knows. She's experienced some of those same things. And, you know, what she found was, you know, that some protesters who she's been feeding for several months were trying to protect her business last night and they still managed, some others managed to break her windows. So, you know, this morning -

CUOMO: How do you explain it? Violence has no conscience?

PEREZ: There is - there is no conscience here. And, you know, so, you know, she was trying to clean up. Her customers were there helping her clean up. She doesn't know, you know, how long this is going to go. Her business has suffered for the last few months. And, again, you know, she fed some of these same folks who apparently might have turned on her. CUOMO: You remember last time, over the summer, there was a group that

got together and said, we're going to come together as the looters to apologize. We want the police to apologize to us and let's move forward. I'd never seen anything like that before.

PEREZ: Yes.

CUOMO: It kind of half happened -

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: Because they didn't want any criminal exposure for what they had done.

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: But the question becomes, how do you move forward here in the absence of leadership? I mean you're going to have to have the men in suits come in here -

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: You know, your governor, your legislators, the big names come in because it really does seem as if it's two worlds today. It's constantly us and them in everything we're hearing.

PEREZ: Well, yes, I mean, I think you've been highlighting that. It's a lack of leadership that you find in this community because, you know, you have people who are infighting behind the scenes. You know, you have the county and the local city -- city government, you know, the people who are not getting along and nobody's really bringing everybody together. And, you know, the -- what you mentioned is, you know, the police were supposed to be talking to the protesters. They're supposed to have cell phone numbers for each other last night. I don't think that really turned out to be anything of any use because once all hell broke loose, you know, basically nobody was communicating with anyone. And these businesses were left on their own with nobody to protect them.

CUOMO: They did not seem well-prepared here last night. There were a lot of officers. We heard about training. But it really seemed that once the agitation went too far, people didn't get out of the streets -

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: And people didn't know that they couldn't be in the street. They could assemble, but not in the street, on the sidewalks.

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: That was broached, that limitation. And once it was, all bets were off. And you've seen probably too much by now what happened.

So, Ashleigh's show is all about the legalities involved.

PEREZ: Right. Right.

CUOMO: So let's give the legal view on these things. The first is that this grand jury has now spoken.

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: There will be no true bill, meaning they don't believe what was brought before them. There's no probable cause for these crimes. There's no chance, in your opinion, my opinion, that the prosecutor charges anyway, right?

PEREZ: Right. No, there's no chance of that. He called it a closed case last night during his press conference. And, you know, in some ways --

CUOMO: A closed case. Not a close case.

PEREZ: No, a closed case.

CUOMO: Right.

PEREZ: And that's one reason why he released all the evidence because he says now there's no reason to hold any of this back.

CUOMO: Did he sound last night like a typical prosecutor of -

PEREZ: No.

CUOMO: I wish I had gotten him. You know, we were so close.

PEREZ: No. No, he sounded - he sounded a lot like, frankly, like Darren Wilson's lawyer. I mean he was defiant, he was criticizing the media for the coverage, while at the same time saying that it exposed some people who had said one thing in the media and then said other things when they came to testify for the grand jury.

CUOMO: Now, you know, this is somewhat of a fine legal point, but you'll probably appreciate it, the audience for this show. I've often suggested that it is rare for someone in a high-profile criminal investigation to go before the grand jury.

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: Other people will say, no, people go if they're a well acquitted defendant, if they're a cop they often go.

PEREZ: Right.

CUOMO: But it is somewhat unusual.

PEREZ: It is very rare. Yes.

CUOMO: And what usually happens when they do is they get completely flayed. I mean that's the risk of going before the grand jury is if the prosecutor's show, he puts you there, he wants you there. But when you read the testimony here, as they gave us in the transcript, the record, it does not look like he was being kind of exposed in the type of cross-examination that you might have expected, true?

PEREZ: Or challenged. Right. Right, that is very true. And it turned out that I think that was the thing that made the difference. If you read the transcripts of what the grand jury heard from Darren Wilson, you can tell that what really happens there is that he doesn't get challenged. You have witnesses whose stories conflict with other witnesses. And he kind of sails through. And his version basically becomes the best version for this grand jury to believe.

CUOMO: So you have what is your black book law in this and your black letter law of what's right or wrong in court and then you just have the right and wrong in general.

Let's bring Don Lemon back in for this because everything we saw last night was wrong on one level or another, Don. And, unfortunately, some of it may have started with one of the relatives of Michael Brown himself. What do we know about that now?

LEMON: Well, that's a concern and we're going to learn about that because I'm actually now at a church where the Brown family is about to hold a press conference. And I spoke with the family representative, Benjamin Crump. You know, he didn't comment to me on the phone, but he did send me a statement and he said that he will address the comments made by Louis Head, which is the stepfather of Michael Brown, last night. No one is questioning, Chris, what the mom said. She's a grieving mother. She lost her son. She was out venting. And regardless of whose side you're on, Michael Brown's side or the officer's side, this is a grieving mom. No one is talking about that. We're not talking about Darren Wilson's guilt or innocence. We're talking about a grieving mother here who was, you know, expressing her grief in a public way last night. So she made some comments.

But what's in question is the stepfather's comments where he said some expletives, we're going to burn this whatever down or burn down and then afterwards all the violence and the chaos and the burnings. Here it is, the video. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: I've been hurt my whole life. I ain't never had to go through nothing like this. Don't none of y'all know me, but I don't do nothing to nobody. Anybody say so, they're a liar. They're a damn liar.

(CROSS TALK)

MCSPADDEN: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, for real, like just a minute (INAUDIBLE), you know, give her a minute.

(CROSS TALK)

LOUIS HEAD, MICHAEL BROWN'S STEPFATHER: Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this place down! (INAUDIBLE). Burn this place down! Burn this place down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so that's a video that is really sort of catching fire on the Internet and the media. And people want answers for it. And as you said, Chris, earlier, this is an ordinary family put in extraordinary circumstances.

When I asked the family attorney about it, here's -- this was his response. He didn't respond - didn't comment directly on Louis Head's comments, the stepfather of Michael Brown, but here is a response and it addresses the mother. It says, "Lesley McSpadden's immediate raw reaction, which was caught on video following the grand jury announcement was borne out of desperation and was a result of the epitome and frustration that the killer of her son would not be brought to justice. As a Ferguson resident, she understands the need for healing in the community and wants to be a positive catalyst for change."

That said, those comments are pretty inflammatory. And parts of this city went up in flames last night and the livelihoods of residents in this city up in smoke, gone. And so that's the question, how can that be explained -- if it can be explained at all, Chris. And we witnessed a lot of that chaos.

Hang on. Let's see, the press conference is actually starting, Chris. So they're getting ready. The speakers are coming. And I should tell you, as we get ready here, the list of speakers, Lesley McSpadden, the mom, Benjamin Crump, the family attorney, Mark Meriall (ph) from the Urban League, the Reverend Al Sharpton from the National Action Network, Anthony Gray, attorney, and Michael Brown Sr., all coming up to the podium right now to speak.

CUOMO: All right, we see the Reverend Al Sharpton getting there ready as the media gets situated. It will be interesting to see what the message is coming off of last night because while the perception in this community is that something bad has been done to them, the question is, what are they going to do for themselves. Let's listen in now.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR BROWN FAMILY: (In progress) -- Anthony Gray, and Attorney Daryl Parks, and Attorney Pam Meanes, president of the National Bar Association. We will initially address in this press conference the family's response to the announcement by the prosecutor yesterday.

Reverend Al Sharpton and Michael Brown, Sr., will come and address you after the attorneys make their comments. Michael Brown, Sr., will say very little because he doesn't want to misspeak because of such emotions that are going through him that would later be held against him.

And so, with that said, we will take a few questions after that agenda is completed and we will try to respect the family of Michael Brown, Jr., in this most terrible, unforgiving hour that they are facing.