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Don Lemon Tonight

Hundreds of Flights Canceled; Anger, Fear in Ferguson

Aired November 26, 2014 - 21:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thanksgiving eve. Two big stories making headlines right now.

A hellish holiday travel night with a hundreds of flight canceled and thousands more delayed by punishing (inaudible). And anger and fear in Ferguson but does America have a race problem or isn't a police problem. We'll talk about that.

Joining me now to discuss is New York Times Columnist Nick Kristof, Nicholas Kristof.

Thank you very much. Happy Thanksgiving to you by the way.

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: And to you.

LEMON: I want to get your reaction Nick to everything that has happened just over the past few days. I've been really wanted to talk to you about this. The rioting in Ferguson, the protests that have been going on coast to coast, why has this struck such a nerve in America?

KRISTOF: Well, you know, we have a fundamental problem with race in America. It has been 50 years since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and this is a reminder of how raw those divisions are in a way we perceive events. You know, the whites have one narrative -- obviously there are huge differences that many whites have one narrative of what happened and many African-Americans have another. And, you know, if your, you know, my interactions with police and mostly have been pretty respectful and professional and I tend to trust the police.

If you're a young African-American man, your interactions with officers have not been professional and you have a deep distrust and we bring to the table those kinds of experiences and that's why we have this gulf of reactions to what happened.

LEMON: And it's interesting that you bring that up because you have now written I believe this year four columns on race, am I correct?

KRISTOF: There was original column about or implicit biases and that led to this way of response from indignant whites and so then I wrote one column when whites just don't get it and then that led to more indignant white response...

LEMON: But you're saying that many of your white readers aren't happy with what you wrote, why not? What are they saying to you? KRISTOF: Well I think that they think that its time to move beyond race. Look, we've elected an African-American president. It's time to look forward not backward. And if there are ongoing divisions, that's because blacks aren't focusing enough on education, on family, you know, this is their problem.

And I think this is fundamentally wrong. I think that it is very easy for whites to be just kind of blissfully unaware of the impediment that so many young black men in particular face and a degree to which past subrogation still informed present in justice. You know, we are all the inheritors of past injustices whether we are white or black and I think it is a profound mistake for those of us who are white and the beneficiaries of this system to ignore that.

I think we have to face up to it and I would hope that an event like Ferguson could be on occasion to do that and to do a little bit of soul search and this is hard stuff.

LEMON: So Nick, how do you respond when people said by saying that you're speaking to whites but if you are -- if blacks are hearing that, you're perpetuating a victim mentality and you are ignore the role of personal responsibility. That's the question on the other side.

KRISTOF: Sure. You know, and person -- and there is no doubt that they are real issues of personal responsibility and indeed a poll show that African-American themselves recognize about 90 percent of African-American say that black men should be more emphasizing education and family but as long as we're talking about personal responsibility, we as whites also has some personal responsibility for a system that we have inherited, that still discriminates in law enforcement system, you know, for republic it is study finding that young black men were 21 times as likely to be killed by policemen as young white man.

We have drug use among African-Americans and whites that seems to be roughly similar based on...

LEMON: And what about their controversial comments with former Mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani said that, "Listen, you know, police officers wouldn't be in black neighborhoods if they" -- I think this quote and I'm paraphrasing here, if you weren't killing each other is what he said and that blacks killed blacks and that crime in those neighborhoods in African-American neighborhoods not all African- American neighborhoods, with many African-American neighborhoods are higher and thus you get more interactions with police officers and bad interactions.

KRISTOF: You know, there is an element here that is real. I mean there is no doubt and Giuliani was pointing this out that most young black men are killed by other young black men, but as long as we're talking about personal responsibility and insisting that each person, each party take care of what they can adjust and stop complaining about other things. Then we as white it's time for us to not just complaining about black irresponsibly but also point to white irresponsibility. LEMON: Yes.

KRISTOF: And we have toolboxes that can address some of these issues. I mean we look at schools, and how e can acquiesce in a system where black kids today go to worst public schools than white kids. That is profound unfair. And I don't think that it's that whites around the country are -- that the problem as white races but I do think that we (inaudible) accept a system that perpetuates...

LEMON: It's a certain...

KRISTOF: ... injustice in many dimension.

LEMON: It's a certain ambivalence to or just of maybe, you know, a willful act of history or knowledge.

KRISTOF: You know, I think it's obliviousness and I don't think, you know, I think the basic problem is that it's very easy to just screwed (ph) along unaware of this, especially if you don't have...

LEMON: Those are...

KRISTOF: ... those black friends and, you know...

LEMON: Those are tough words for everyone to hear. You're saying that blacks need to be more responsible. Whites need to be more responsible but yet somehow we all need to meet in the middle.

I want to move on. And because I think, you know, I ready your columns but I want to move on because I want to get your take on this. OK. Are you done? Are you cool with...

KRISTOF: Yeah, absolutely.

LEMON: OK, so let's talk about Darren Wilson's interview with ABC news and dealing specifically with race. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: And you're absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind that if Michael Brown were white this would have gone down in exactly the same way.

DARREN WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No question.

WILSON: No question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What do you think Nick? Do you believe that?

KRISTOF: Well I mean look, I'm not Darren Wilson and I, you know, I can't second guess him but what we do know is that even people who think that they are unbiased that they indeed make decisions that are deeply bias. There was a shooter game, a video game that University of Chicago came up where you were confronted with sudden images of people emerging either with a gone or a cellphone.

He was supposed to shoot quickly and I played that other people did that. We were all much more quick to shoot African-Americans who popped up and we are more likely to make mistakes with an African- American who had a wallet rather than a gun.

So the problem is not, you know, it's not conscious racism and not -- it's not people who believe in inequality. It's a people who deeply believe in inequality is people who believe in moving on and yet who unconsciously act in a ways that are bias...

LEMON: It's tougher to convince someone who -- how do I say? So to say, it's tougher I think to convince people who think that they're liberal and progressive, that they have certain biases and maybe there is otherwise. Sometimes because I'm not bias. I'm not racist. I have black friends. Sometimes it's really tough to do that.

KRISTOF: That's right. And, you know, I think that people think that they're acting in equal ways and yet we see schools that expel black kids at much, much higher rates for the same behaviors. We see employers who are much more likely to call back for resumes that have a traditionally just have white name than a traditionally black name. And...

LEMON: But this are people who -- but it's also -- listen, there are people who say I am bigoted. I am racist. I know it. But then there are those who will say I'm not and if you consciously said and I'm not saying this about Darren Wilson. I'm talking this in other terms.

I am not racist. I am not bias but if you never examine it, how do you actually figure that out?

KRISTOF: Yes, and I, you know, I really don't think that in 2014 the problem is the all out bigot.

LEMON: Right.

KRISTOF: I think that larger problem is those of us who kind of march on oblivious and don't sufficiently closely examine our own situation, our own attitudes and above all, around behaviors.

LEMON: And I think everyone has an implicit bias. It's just sad that the implicit bias for black men is one of a criminal because we have implicit biases for every person, for women, for a white men, for Hispanic men, there are implicit biases. But when it comes to the sad thing, when it comes to African-American men it is a criminal implicit bias and one can loss their life because of that bias.

KRISTOF: It is right and, you know, the if you look at robbery, a majority of people and FBI statistics the arrest for robbery are indeed African-American but 99 percent of African-Americans are not arrest for robbery

LEMON: Yeah. KRISTOF: And so, this comparison, this invidious bias is profoundly unfair to African-Americans today.

LEMON: Nicolas Kristof of heavy conversation for Thanksgiving. But is it - it would be great if we could all seat around the Thanksgiving table and at least discuss this for a moment, right?

KRISTOF: This is a conversation that we have to have and it's a difficult one, it's a painful one. So what better way to go through a Turkey stuffing then instead of talking about some these really difficult issues.

LEMON: Enjoy your family. Happy Thanksgiving again. Thank you.

KRISTOF: And to you.

LEMON: We're watching the situation in Ferguson tonight and we're going to bring you the very latest as it happens. When we come right back the early winter storm pounding the East Coast tonight. If you one of the 46 million Americans hitting the road this weekend you had better watch out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back everyone. Travelers on the East Coast don't have a lot to be thankful for this holiday weekend, an early winter storm spoiling a lot of Thanksgiving plan, so how bad will it get and when will all of these be over. Chad Myers knows all of that his in the CNN severe weather. Jennifer Gray is at New York LaGuardia airport. Rosa Flores and the thick of it along the Massachusetts turn (inaudible) as we say.

So let's begin with Rosa Flores. So Rosa when we mix of snow, freezing rain, making driving dangerous and according to AAA over 41 million people will travel by car this holiday and in many areas, you know, what have you been seeing?

ROSA FLORES CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know Don, it's been quite a mess. But here's good news. In Massachusetts more than a thousand pieces of equipment like these are out in about on the roadway and highways plowing, treating the roadway and highways because it's been so treacherous. Now the day started a toasty 39 degrees but as the day went by the conditions worsen.

Right now we're about 31 since below freezing. I want you to take a look at the highway behind me and this is the mass turnpike like you just mention. These are west bound lanes. Traffic has been a little low. But let me tell you something. We just talk state police they us more than 100 spin-off dozen of accidents. Now, the good news is they have not been vital so far which is great. But they're emphasizing that the conditions are very treacherous, low visibility.

The highways right now most of them in Massachusetts or the temperature on the road is below freezing and so it make it very, very difficult because of a potential block ice situations. So Don, overall state police saying people should be very careful and if you can stay at home, stay at home. Don.

LEMON: Hey, Rosa let me ask you this. You've been out there covering this for a while. Are you seeing traffic pick up? Is it steady? What's going on? Is it slowing down as it gets darker?

FLORES: You know, it has been steady all day long. But let me tell you something. We were on this road from New York last night and it was bumper to bumper for a miles. So I think that people heeded the warning. And they left earlier which what experts were recommending and that's why we're seeing the conditions you're seeing now and traffic just steady (inaudible) here and there. But I think people heeded the warning and they traveled earlier to make sure that they skipped all the mess.

LEMON: All right, I'm glad you're...

FLORES: Don.

LEMON: ... a ways off that road and you're wearing a big red jacket, so be careful out there. Rosa Flores.

Now we're going to go to the airport. Busies travel day of the year. Jennifer Gray is with us now. And you're at LaGuardia airlines, have canceled more than 730 flights and delayed nearly 4,700, Jennifer. Some delays as long as six hours. So what -- I want to know what it's like at LaGuardia. I flown to LaGuardia today and we sat there on the runway for almost an hour because we couldn't get a gate. Is it that bad now or has it gotten better?

GRAY: Well Don, things are starting to get a little bit better. Here at LaGuardia actually about 500 were delayed, 150 were canceled and so it has created a ripple effect. Those huge numbers that you said about 4,000 delays that was into out of and within the U.S. So it has just a ripple effect all day. We have low clouds this morning at LaGuardia. And so that kept planes from arriving. And so that combined with a snow and a mess all across the East Coast. It kept planes from going anywhere.

Look at on the boards behind me. We do have a couple of planes still yet to arrive. Things are starting to play catch up a little bit. But one good thing that did happen was a lot of the airlines actually allowed people to change their flights with change fee if they had flexible plan, they could've got in early yesterday or even waited until tomorrow. So I think things could have been much worst if they didn't add that. But folks are -- have just very patient. They've actually taken and strive I think haven't been so bad here at LaGuardia and a folks have made the best of it. Don.

LEMON: Such a cliche, Jennifer, but we always say pack your patient -- but pack you patient because, you know.

GRAY: Yeah.

LEMON: You never know what's going to happen.

GRAY: They haven't pack their patient today. LEMON: Yeah, I think we'll be getting back to you. So Jennifer, standby. Thank you very much for that. I want to get to our Chad Myers now at the CNN severe weather center. Where are the hardest hit places right now Chad?

MYERS: Still getting hit hard (inaudible) the East (inaudible) into Albany New York on up Catskills and just from Allegany's East Pocono's too picking up a lot of snow still. Probably 10 inches will be the big number. Not from New York City, one for New York City. It just about over there but it really it just still winding up for Portland into Maine and also into Upstate New York and Vermont, New Hampshire it still has a ways to go yet, probably another four to five more hours.

Here's where all of the snow is falling, all the way from West Virginia, all the way up to Maine, some spots over a foot of snow and still a few more inches to go up to Maine (inaudible) so you can pick up another (inaudible). This is not over for them up there at all, Don.

LEMON: OK, I'll ask you my personal question after this so but, you know, it's keeping people from getting to see their love one and eat their pumpkin pies, so how much longer really is this horrible weather going to be around? Is everyone of out of it -- is everyone in the clear tomorrow? Can they get back this weekend?

MYERS: Yeah, I think we're done probably by 3:00 a.m. for New York and most of New England. Not yet for Maine, that probably won't stop until 7:00.

But by the time you wake up to go and watch the (inaudible) Parade. It will be 37 degrees with a dusting of snow on the grass and then it's all done.

LEMON: OK. So, you know, it's -- yeah, I have a personal meteorologist here at CNN. And I'll take advantage of that.

LaGuardia to New Orleans tomorrow morning, am I cool?

MYERS: The problem with it is if the plane gets there. There were so many cancellations. It isn't that, no things are going to be stop tomorrow morning. I think things are going to be clear.

Does the plane -- let's say your plane came for Minneapolis, did it come? Did it land? Is it at the gate right now? That's where it all starts to go down (inaudible).

You will get to New Orleans tomorrow. Your maybe an hour too late, you'll get there.

LEMON: Mom, I'm trying, if you're watching.

Chad Myers, thank you. Happy Thanksgiving, my friend.

MYERS: To you too. I'll see you tomorrow.

LEMON: All right, to Jennifer and to Rosa as well. Thank you very much.

We'll be right back everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: As we have been showing you all week here on CNN protest happening from coast to coast. I want to get to the one in Los Angeles. Our Paul Vercammen joins us now from Los Angeles by phone,

Paul, we're looking at people in gathering and walking down the street. What do we're seeing here?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well what you're seeing is the continuation of a protest that started at the federal building in Los Angeles, the Federal Court House.

And the protesters at one point talk about going to the L.A. Downtown jail where that would have possibly been like it was last night where we saw protesters and police squared off. In some instances, nose to nose, the officers with their visors down. But that path was walked also during the demonstration.

We heard some protesters saying, that perhaps they should go toward Staple Center, reporting out that there's a Lakers game tonight starting at 7:30, specific coast time and that people should not be out celebrating or enjoying themselves when (inaudible) going on in Ferguson.

So what we have now is a protest that has taken several different turns. It's far different from last night where it was pretty much a right angle where they left Crenshaw District and headed up (inaudible) Street in the Downtown, by the way that was about an 8- mile track.

Today, the protest is much smaller and now my last account, this protest is going to head towards Staple Center.

LEMON: Paul, what is been the reaction there? Because we were showing the 101 Freeway shut down last night and of course, you know, everybody travels by car in Los Angeles. What's been the general reaction to the protest there?

VERCAMMEN: Well, of course people on the busiest travel day, you concerns, they may be shutdown again. And what we saw tonight was an extreme show of force from the police. We saw -- oh my goodness a lot of a motorcycle police...

LEMON: OK.

VERCAMMEN: ... and (inaudible) police and many others are getting, you know, very involved in blocking up.

Don, did you loss me there for a second.

LEMON: No, we're great but Paul, thank you. We're going to get back to you and we're going to get back to our correspondents station around country and show you more of this protest that are happening to coast to coast after what has been going down in Ferguson, Missouri.

And also, a travel nightmare because of the weather. We're going to bring it all to you right after this.

We'll be back at the top of the hour, just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)