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Ferguson Officer Wilson Breaks His Silence; Millions Face Thanksgiving Travel Delays

Aired November 26, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a spark in Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have succeeded in overturning that police car on this street.

COSTELLO: Igniting protests nation wide.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those who think that what happened in Ferguson is an excuse for violence, I do not have any sympathy for that.

COSTELLO: New York, Chicago, Atlanta, L.A. Streams of protesters standing in solidarity with Michael Brown and his family.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., MICHAEL BROWN'S FATHER: We're still hurting. I feel like they just killed him again.

OFFICER DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE: I think those are grieving parents who are mourning the loss of their son.

COSTELLO: But the officer who shot the unarmed the teenager sticks to his story and says skin color did not matter.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: When you look through your heart and your mind that, that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?

WILSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: The fury still simmering in the streets.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Looks like the National Guard, if you see there, is taking somebody in.

COSTELLO: As Missouri's governor faces accusations he held back the National Guard.

GOV. JAY NIXON (D), MISSOURI: That is false and absurd in politics. That's nothing to do with what anything the folks up here are doing. COSTELLO: Let's talk, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

For the second straight night unrest filled the streets of Ferguson, Missouri. Police cars flipped over or set on fire, bottles of urine thrown at cops. But police were quicker to make arrests overnight. In all, 44 people taken into custody.

All of this comes as with he hear from Officer Darren Wilson for the first time since he fired the shots that killed Michael Brown three months ago. Wilson talked with ABC News just hours after the grand jury decided not to indict him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILSON: When he stopped, he turned and faced me, and the stutter step that you sometimes see like people start to run and they kind of did the hop and then go, he does that, and as he does that his right hand immediately goes into his waistband and his left hand is a fist at his side and he starts charging me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you saw that?

WILSON: I didn't know. My initial thought was there a weapon in there, is there a knife, is there a brick? What's in there? Why is your hand going there? We're taught to let me see your hands.

STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know some of the eyewitnesses have said at that moment he turned around, he turned around and put his hands up.

WILSON: That would be incorrect.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Incorrect? No way?

WILSON: No way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you say he starts to run, does a stutter step, starts to come toward you, and?

WILSON: At that time I gave myself another mental check, can I shoot this guy? You know, legally can I, and the question I answered myself was, I have to, if I don't, he will kill me if he gets to me. He's already overpowered me once. If he gets to me, I will not survive.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though he's 35, 40 feet away?

WILSON: Once he's coming that direction, if he hasn't stopped yet when he's going to stop?

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you've already fired twice, he starts to come towards you.

WILSON: After he's coming at me and I decided to shoot I fired a series of shots and paused.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you see?

WILSON: I noticed at least one of them hit him. I don't know where, but I saw his body kind of just flinch a little and after that, I paused and I yelled, you know, stop, get on the ground, giving him the opportunity to stop, and he ignored all the commands and he just kept running. And so after he kept running again, I shot another series of shots and at least one of those hit him, too, I saw the flinch and he stopped.

I stopped first, I stopped and I said get on the ground, get on the ground. Well, this time he's about 15 feet away so I start back pedaling because he's just getting too close and he's still not stopping after --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You were back pedaling?

WILSON: Yes, away from him. Because I was like, he's already running through these shots. I mean, he -- they weren't fazing him. It didn't matter to him and he was looking through me and as he gets to that 15 feet after I fired the second round of shots, he gets to about eight to 10 feet and as he does that, he kind of starts to lean forward like he's going to tackle me.

And eight to 10 feet is close. If he's going to tackle me he's going to tackle me at that point and I looked down my barrel of my gun and I fired and what I saw was his head and that's where it went.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Some witnesses have also said that they actually saw you stand over him and shoot him in the top of his head.

WILSON: That would be incorrect. That would be incorrect.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And he's down now.

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know he's dead?

WILSON: Yes, whenever -- I had actually seen that bullet go into his head, I actually saw that and I saw the face that he had go blank, everything was just blank, and when he landed, he had fell face first and actually slid on his face and upper body, and as he did that his feet had come up in the air from all the momentum he had from running at me and when he came to rest his feet then collapsed and I knew immediately that he had passed.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And when you look back, is there anything you could have done differently that would have prevented that killing from taking place?

WILSON: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Nothing?

WILSON: No. If he would have gotten on the sidewalk and followed orders down to the sidewalk I probably would have never noticed those Cigarellas. I would have gotten my lunch and continued my day, he would have continued his.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Some of the witnesses have said they thought you were out of control, that somehow you had snapped.

WILSON: That would be incorrect. There was never -- the only emotion I'd ever felt was fear and then it was survival and training.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No question?

WILSON: No question.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The Brown family came out with a statement last night where they said, "We are profoundly disappointed that the killer of our child will not face the consequences of his actions." What do you think when you hear that?

WILSON: I think those are grieving parents, who are mourning the loss of their son. I don't think there's anything I could say, but again, you know, I'm sorry that their son lost his life. It wasn't the intention of that day. It's what occurred that day. And there's no -- nothing you can say that's going to make a parent feel better.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like you don't think you were responsible.

WILSON: I did my job that day.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you feel any remorse?

WILSON: Everyone feels remorse when a life is lost. Like I told you before, I never wanted to take anybody's life. You know, that's not the good part of the job, that's the bad part of the job. So yes, there is remorse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk more about what Officer Darren Wilson told George Stephanopoulos. Joining me now, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, Ferguson Township Committeewoman Patricia Bynes and Chuck Drago, he's a former police chief in Florida who now trains police officers in the use of force.

Good morning to all of you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

CHUCK DRAGO, FORMER ORLANDO POLICE CHIEF: Good morning.

PATRICIA BYNES, COMMITTEEWOMAN, FERGUSON TOWNSHIP: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning, and thank you all for being with me. I do appreciate it.

Patricia, I want to start with you because I'm sure much of Ferguson was glued to Wilson's account. Michael Brown's parents, however, well, Officer Wilson's interview very much upset them. Listen to what they told CBS this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: He didn't do what he had to do. He did what he wanted to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he wanted to do?

MCSPADDEN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're thinking he wanted to kill your son?

MCSPADDEN: I don't think he wanted to kill my son but he wanted to kill someone.

BROWN: At the end of his statement he said he'd do it again.

MCSPADDEN: His conscience is clear. How could your conscience be clear after killing somebody even if it was an accidental death?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to allow the body to lie there for four hours.

MCSPADDEN: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

MCSPADDEN: We can't even have my son's organs donated. You understand that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Keep in mind this is the first time Officer Wilson fired his weapon, so we do have to take that into account, but I wanted to ask you, Patricia, did Wilson enlighten or make things more tense in Ferguson?

BYNES: Well, he did both. It was very hard to listen to that interview and to hear him just be very matter-of-factually about what happened. I cringed really when I heard him talking about pursuing Mike Brown, and if he cares anything about the community that he used to police, I would ask him to please stay away from the television interviews right now because it's certainly not making anything better.

COSTELLO: You said before, Patricia, that Officer Wilson should apologize, but if he feels he was doing his duty that day, and he had no choice, why should he apologize?

BYNES: Well, there was a loss of life here, so I think there should be some type of apology or just a human effort to reach out and make it seem there's some type of remorse about what happened because police officers should not just feel like they just have to kill. I mean, that should certainly be the last resort here, and while he made it sound as if it was the last resort, it was just -- his interview was a little cold and heartless.

COSTELLO: Chief Drago, you worked in law enforcement for 30 years. You trained police officers in the use of force. Officer Wilson did seem clinical in many people's minds, although his voice did break in places. What do you make of him?

DRAGO: First of all, I don't think the police officer should be getting up there and speaking at this point. Remember, police officers are trained to be professional, monotone, to not show emotion, to not be personally involved, and this officer is probably holding back on most of those emotions, trying to do what he was trained to do in acting very professional throughout this.

I'm sure that this is not easy for the officer either and I know that any officer that has to take a life suffers from with that daily for the rest of his life.

COSTELLO: Chief, I also wanted to ask you, Wilson repeatedly said he did what he was trained to do. When you teach officers how to use deadly force, would you instruct them to do what Wilson did that day?

DRAGO: Yes and no. There's portions of this event where Officer Wilson was put in a position where he didn't have any choice but to use force to defend his life, but if we look at the totality of the circumstances and we look at the whole event, we need to look at things that occurred before the actual use of force, leading up to the use of force and then during the use of force as to the tactics and the training for this officer.

Administrators have got to look beyond just the legal reasonableness of that use of force. The administration of the police department and police departments across the country have to look at those events leading up to it. Are we training our --

COSTELLO: Can you be specific? Can you be specific about which things they should look at?

DRAGO: Well, for instance, Officer Wilson described how Mr. Brown walked up to his car as he pulled up alongside of them. Well, police officers are trained never to let anybody walk up to your door when you're sitting in the police car. It's a dangerous position to be in. So there's other events that occurred throughout this that we have to look at and see if we're training our police officers properly.

Do they understand what they should and should not be doing that puts them into a position where now they have no choice but to use lethal force.

COSTELLO: Should the officer have gotten out of his car after Michael Brown started to run away?

DRAGO: Well, that's another aspect of this. Officer Wilson said that he had to chase him because it was his duty. Are we training our police officers that they should risk their lives and lives of other people as a part of their duty? We need to train officers to understand that they have to be smart about it.

If he was so concerned and threatened by Mr. Brown when he was in the car, we have to ask, was it the best thing to do to chase him? And at that point, or wait for a backup and unfortunately, administrations and police departments are reluctant to criticize police officers who have been involved in lethal force for many reasons, but we need to stand up in law enforcement across this country today and look at these individual cases.

And if we see issues that got to be changed, we need to change them, whether they're training, whether they're cultures of the police department, whatever it may be, we need to face them and change them.

COSTELLO: And the final question I have just about the actions that day, you heard Officer Wilson say when Michael Brown turned around and was coming back toward him, he back pedaled. Should police officers ever back pedal?

DRAGO: Well, they've got to maintain a distance between the subject and themselves. They're trained to do that. They understand that, if that reactionary gap, that space between them and the subject gets too small, they're not going to be able to move quick enough to defend themselves. So officers will continuously try to create that reactionary gap or that space between them, but officers don't want to have to back up because as we all know, when you back up, it's easy for you to trip or fall down.

COSTELLO: All right, on to you, Paul Callan, the Brown family said Wilson seemed very rehearsed that he embellished his story, this whole thing happened, what, within 90 seconds and Wilson remembers an amazing amount of detail.

Do you think he was rehearsed? Do you -- I mean, as his attorneys wouldn't you tell him to tell his story over and over again so he can --

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, of course he was rehearsed. He has sat down undoubtedly numerous times with his attorneys getting ready for his grand jury presentation, reliving exactly what happened.

When I have a client in a situation like this I'll go through several practice sessions, and I may focus on something that the witness has never thought about, a detail that wouldn't come up in an ordinary narrative. So when you see an interview at this stage in the litigation, it looks rehearsed and it looks like there have been some lawyers in the background.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the detail that I found surprising that the officer remembered. So he shoots Michael Brown, he says his face goes blank, and as he falls his face hits the pavement and his feet come up, and he said that was because Michael Brown was running at him so fast that his feet came up.

Maybe it's his officer training, but if I just shot someone and I knew that I killed him, would I remember that detail?

CALLAN: Yes, I think you would because -- and I'll tell you why. I just -- that is such an odd thing, somebody's feet coming up as they fall to the ground. I mean, you know, it's just -- I think that moment of -- now remember this is the first time he's ever used his gun. He's probably realized that he's killed this person.

To me, that would be the one snapshot that would be crystal clear in his mind of that final moment, killing another human being.

So, I'm not surprised that he remembers that.

COSTELLO: Patricia, a last question for you, and a tough one, I will admit. The Brown family says Michael would never act so aggressively, but we did see him in that convenience store pushing the store owner.

Both sides are saying something so different about Brown's propensity for aggression.

Is it easy then to understand that it's difficult for some people to know what to believe?

PATRICIA BYNES, COMMITTEEWOMAN, FERGUSON TOWNSHIP: I understand the question.

However, there's a difference when you're acting with law enforcement, especially in the black community. You don't run toward law enforcement.

There's already a tense reaction between police officers and people who are black. You do not just go towards a police officer. We're already stereotyped. They already think that we're aggressive, and violent.

So, that's the part that I find really hard to believe. Police interaction is the last thing, most people in the black community are -- would move forward and charge toward to do.

COSTELLO: Patricia Bynes, Paul Callan, Chuck Drago, I appreciate it. I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: The decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson has ignited noisy, sometimes angry demonstrators from New York to Los Angeles. Whenever possible, protesters tried to stop traffic.

But facing off against cars is risky. One woman was slightly hurt when a vehicle rammed into protesters blocking an intersection in Minneapolis. Police did not ticket the driver.

In all, at least 170 U.S. towns and cities across the country held rallies to protest the decision by the Ferguson grand jury. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTER: No justice!

PROTESTERS: No peace!

PROTESTER: Hands up!

PROTESTERS: Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They succeed in overturning the police car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's the arrest.

PROTESTERS: Hands up!

PROTESTERS: Don't shoot! .

PROTESTERS: Hands up!

PROTESTERS: Don't shoot!

(INAUDIBLE)

(CHANTING)

POLICE: Folks in the right lane, you will be arrested.

POLICE: One lane of traffic. Go back --

PROTESTER: No justice!

PROTESTERS: No peace!

PROTESTER: No justice!

PROTESTERS: No peace!

PROTESTER: Justice!

PROTESTER: When do we want?

PROTESTERS: Now!

PROTESTER: We will get justice!

PROTESTER: Justice for --

PROTESTERS: Michael Brown!

PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace.

PROTESTERS: Don't shoot. No peace.

POLICE: Break it up. Break it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Hey, if you're hitting the road today to join family and friends for Thanksgiving -- well, there's going to be a not so nice big Turkey Day surprise for you. Major winter storm will slam up the East Coast today.

As you know, it's the busiest travel day of the year, as you know. Millions of us could face big travel delays not on the roads only but at the airports as well, because of the bad weather. More than 300 flights have already been canceled this morning, more than 600 flights already delayed, and that number is expected to grow.

So, let's get the latest from meteorologist Indra Petersons.

Hit us!

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It's literally, Carol, a race against the clock.

We have just a few hours left. We're supposed to expect to see that rain transition over to a wintry mix. And what we're going to see is that board drastically change.

Sure, we have seen a couple of delays, the majority 15 or 20-minute delays. I think everyone can handle that.

But about the next hour and a half or so, I mean, literally the amount of time we have left they're expected to see delays from three to six- hour delays. It all has to do with the temperature. The system is making its way closer.

This morning, temperatures were in the 50s. Now the temperature is dropping into the 30s right now, once we see the temperatures go near that freezing mark, everything shifts over. These major hubs, D.C., Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, all looking for a chance for snowfall. Thirty million people in the Northeast are looking for winter weather to affect the biggest travel day of the entire year.

One piece of good news: the actual major cities themselves only looking, so Boston, New York City, three to six inches of snowfall. Barely inland or toward new England and to the northeast you'll see it drastically change, 6 to 10 inches of snowfall, over a foot of snowfall expected in a lot of places.

So, a lot of people -- a lot of motorists on the road will be affected trying to make their way home to see families. A lot changing and it's changing quickly, Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes, it is. You'll keep us posted and we appreciate that. Indra Petersons, thank you so much.

So, let's head up to the roadways. Brian Todd and Erin McPike, they are both driving from D.C. to New York City and back. Oh, one is flying and one is driving. I get it now. Who will make it first in light of all of the delays at the airports

and all the messiness that is going to be on the roadways later today? Are we joining them now? No?

We're going to go to Roanoke first actually, because, wow, look what it looks like in Roanoke right now. This is Alison Parker from WDBJ in Roanoke.

So, it's pretty.

ALISON PARKER, WDBJ REPORTER: It is. It's such a beautiful sight and what you're seeing right now started out as heavy rain, very early this morning, but clearly a different picture. The roads pretty much pure slush. We've seen the Virginia Department of Transportation plows going back and forth up here on top of bent mountain in Roanoke County in Virginia.

And all emergency responders are encouraging drivers to be careful if they're heading down the mountain, just from driving up and down. We have' seen cars heading into up to with snow and ice on top of their cars and it's spilling off. So, definitely something to be aware of if you are hitting the roads.

If you're looking at the this parking lot right now, we had a crew come through here, plow it off, clear off this parking lot because this fire department obviously needs a clear parking lot to get out and respond so any situation. This was an hour ago and right now you can't tell they were out here. The snow is coming down -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, everyone be careful, please. Alison Parker, thank you so much. Alison Parker from WDBJ in Roanoke.

I'll be right pack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)