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Mother of Michael Brown Speaks Out; Holiday Travel

Aired November 26, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You heard officer Darren Wilson say it. Michael Brown reached for my gun.

But in the past couple of moments, in an interview with CNN, Michael Brown's mother says categorically that it just did not happen. She also responded to the critics who say she and her husband incited riots with a controversial appearance in Ferguson.

Before we play you part of this interview, here is a reminder of that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: I have been here my whole life. I ain't never had to go through nothing like this. Don't none you all know me, but I don't do nothing to nobody. Anybody say so, they're a liar. They're a damn liar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know it. We know it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was somebody's child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all murdered her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) son.

LOUIS HEAD, HUSBAND OF LESLEY MCSPADDEN: Burn this mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down. Burn this bitch down. Burn this bitch down. Burn this bitch down.

(SHOUTING)

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And so now we have Michael Brown's mother talking about her emotions on that very night. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We have all seen the video of you going to where the protesters were in front of the Ferguson Police Department, and you are on a car, and you are speaking to the people. Why did you feel the need to do that?

MCSPADDEN: I felt the need to do that, because, one, like we just said, they never addressed us. And, two, you heard our pleas and our cries for everything to go the way it should be.

And then, third of all, we heard this, and it was just like a -- like I had been shot, like you shooting me now, just no respect, no sympathy, nothing. And so my emotions were raging, and I had to go up there and just to let them know, you just really don't care, do you? And why don't you care? This could be your child. This could be anybody's child.

HOSTIN: Well, when you were on the car, your husband -- you have been married since May, got up on the car and he said burn the B. down, and CNN and other outlets have been replaying that. And some are saying that he single-handedly started the rioting and the fires. What do you say to that?

MCSPADDEN: I say that that is impossible.

These things have been going on since August 9, when it first happened. His emotions were taking over him, just like mine, and he just spoke out of anger. It is one thing to speak and it's a different thing to act. He did not act. He just spoke out of anger.

I'm a grieving mother. That is my husband. He has been around Michael at least four years, so he has grown to love him, not as much as I do, but he ha grown to love him like he loves his own children. So when you are that hurt, and the system has did you this wrong, you may say some things as well. We have all spoke out of anger before.

HOSTIN: Do you believe that when officer Wilson first approached your son and told him to move out of the roadway, that your son's first response was "F. what you say?"

MCSPADDEN: No.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., FATHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think that is even possible?

MCSPADDEN: No.

BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think it's even possible officer Wilson is saying that your son reached into the car and tried to grab his gun?

BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think that it is possible that your son told him you are too much of a P-word to shoot me? MCSPADDEN: I don't even believe those -- any of those words were exchanged at all.

BROWN: No. No.

HOSTIN: Why not?

MCSPADDEN: Why? You know why? Because my sister had just rolled up the street, and rolled past my son as he was coming down.

And just that quick, not even five minutes went by before someone was running to my mother's house, saying Mike-Mike is laying up, you know, up there in the middle of the street dead.

An interaction or, you know, it lasts a little longer than that, especially when you're looking at the distance and you are looking at they're running. And when did that -- when did this conversation happen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that is just piece of the much longer conversation that Sunny had with the parents.

Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, that was about 3.5 minutes of much bigger piece, but what jumped out at you?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there are just so many things that I want to talk about.

First of all, I think it is going to be an incredible interview that Sunny just did, and finally it looks like the family has been given an opportunity to actually talk about what they have been feeling, and so I can't wait to see that.

And it feels weird to even comment on the reactions of Michael Brown's parents, and what they are feeling and they're saying, because they are grieving, for crying out loud, and they're in the middle of this huge national controversy.

And, truly, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of what my opinions are about the grand jury, which is that the process drew the right conclusion, and that no true bill is the right conclusion based on the evidence, I still think that this family has been so tremendously disrespected by the police, by the prosecutor, by the mayor, by the governor.

The fact that nobody has spoken to them personally is an outrage to me. So, that aside, I do kind of go, you know, when you ask a parent a question, would your kid ever talk like that to a police officer, I don't think anybody wants to think their child could.

BALDWIN: You would hope not. You would hope not, especially as a grieving parent, right?

ROBBINS: Yes, but -- no, but, their son did just rob a store nine minutes before this happened, where he took a clerk with two fingers and shoved him across the store, and then when the clerk tried to come after him, he stopped, and he turned around. He came back in and barrel-chested at the guy.

BALDWIN: Yes. You see it on the video.

ROBBINS: Yes, you see it on the video.

And that was just 10 minutes before the confrontation happened. And so nobody wants to talk about -- does that mean he should get shot? No. Does that mean that the confrontation that happened between them was justified? No. It does not mean any of that stuff.

But what it means is, he is not the saint that everybody wants to make him out to be. He should not be dead. But you have the look at the totality here. And the other thing that I feel is -- has been -- I was a public defender. I saw bias every single day against men who were black, who were Latino.

It was my job to defend them, and it is scary, and it is also sickening to me that in 2014, I don't have to worry about how the police view my son, but, Sunny, Joey Jackson, our friends and colleagues that are black or Latino, they have to have these conversations with their kids, and that is something that must change in this country.

And it has got to change soon, and if it is the Michael Brown law that has police officers wearing cameras or if it is a separate type of process -- there were 461 justified police shootings, and how do we know they are justified? We don't. That is what the FBI statistics are, 461 last year.

Who is reviewing those? Nobody. We don't have a system where somebody other than the government or the police or the prosecutors are reviewing what the police are doing when they shoot a citizen in this country.

So it has been interesting to comment on this case, because I can look at it very narrowly as a lawyer, and analyze the evidence, and say, you know, you don't have the evidence here. It really blows and it feels unfair, but there is no evidence based on the law and based on the physical evidence at the scene to charge this officer, period.

But in terms of the larger optics, we have a huge problem going on in this country, and I'm glad to see all of those powerful protests that are happening around the country.

BALDWIN: Especially, especially, and let me just chime in, because I really just like to shut up and hear you, because just I am listening to every word, but especially in Atlanta.

Coming up a little later in this hour, there were demonstrators and protests in Atlanta. At Morehouse College, a lot of the Morehouse men stood and they sang, men and some women as well. And so I think it almost just seems more poignant, instead of the violence and the destruction and just you have powerful. (CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: Well, of course. It's powerful. It's powerful when you -- that is what Michael Brown's family has been calling for.

BALDWIN: Absolutely.

ROBBINS: That is what they -- I wish that we weren't showing that video of Lesley and her husband being so upset that night.

You can't understand how you would act if you have lost your son, and then you have been disrespected and disrespected and disrespected, even though in my opinion the law is what the law is and the evidence showed, unfortunately for the Brown family, what it showed is it showed that the police officer's version is likely what happened.

BALDWIN: I think it was the aftermath of everything, in the thick of it, after the decision came down. It was the mother that we have been following and watching very, very closely, the emotions, and then having Sunny ask about it in context. Appropriate to play, but I hear you, Mel Robbins. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Make sure you watch. We just played you three-and-a-half minutes' worth. There was a lot more of Sunny Hostin talking to both of Michael Brown's parents. Make sure you watch it in its entirety tonight on "A.C. 360" 8:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

Just ahead, Nancy Grace says that something does not quite add up about officer Darren Wilson's story. She will join me live, sounding off on Wilson's remark about feeling like a 5-year-old against Michael Brown, who he likens to Hulk Hogan.

Plus, the controversial witness in this case, Michael Brown's friend, joins us to react to Wilson's claims.

And as -- we were just talking about this. These are the protests you are not seeing on TV, peaceful, with a clear message, incredibly powerful. We will talk to these Morehouse College students about what they want to change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

From New York, to Los Angeles and all kinds of cities in between, lots of protesters flooded the streets last night to denounce a grand jury's decision of not indicting Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in Michael Brown's death.

But out of all of the protests we saw, there was one group in Atlanta who really stood out to us, and definitely capturing our attention. They call themselves the Sangers Room. And they gathered at Morehouse and then went on down to the CNN world headquarters, letting their voices be heard, as you can hear, through song.

And we are going to take you live to Atlanta. Here they are. You heard her voice and him playing. Here we have the founders, one of the founders of the Sangers Room. Mitch Moffett is a senior music major at Morehouse College. He was playing the guitar we just played in the clip.

And, Deanna Dixon, that was your voice we heard leading the crowd.

So, both of you, welcome, welcome, welcome. And can I just ask, just to both of you, why aren't more protests like yours?

DEANNA DIXON, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: I think one of the problems that we see a lot of is that people don't believe that you can make the same impact with positivity.

And we definitely believe that. And we wanted to be the difference to show that, hey, we can come together and join together and do it peacefully and make the same impact, and now we are here today.

MITCH MOFFETT, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: Yes, we created a movement through the song. And so we were like thinking it is only fitting for us to be able to go to the streets of Atlanta and use our voice through song to really uplift the people, to give them an alternate route to protest, instead of using violence on the streets.

BALDWIN: And, of course, of all places, the history, you think of Atlanta, right? And I was wondering, one of the first questions when I heard about this is, what were the songs you were singing?

DIXON: We were just actually -- our movement that we have called the Sangers Room is really about improve.

And so one of the biggest things that we knew that we wanted to display was peace. And so that is all we were singing was, we want peace, we want peace, we want to be the change today.

BALDWIN: Mitch, you're a music major. Of all the songs -- and hear you, improv and maybe not, what is the song, if you can just think about this for a second, the one song you think really illustrates your feelings about the state of America right now?

MOFFETT: I would have to say it would be the song called "Stand" by John P. Kee.

I would say that that song is very powerful because throughout all of the things that go on in the world, it is important for us to stand. We have to stand for something. And some of the lyrics, it says, stand for holiness, stand for righteousness, and, together, we should all stand. And that is really, really powerful, especially in a crucial time like this, and if you want the voice to be heard, it's important for us all to stand, and stand together.

DIXON: Right.

BALDWIN: Mitch Moffett and Deanna Dixon, I hope you two keep singing and I hope other people join you.

DIXON: Thank you.

MOFFETT: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Just ahead, he is the controversial witness who was with Michael Brown during the shooting. You're about to hear what Dorian Johnson now says about officer Darren Wilson's recent interview.

Plus, Nancy Grace joins me live, sounds off on that very interview with officer Wilson and what she says doesn't add up about his story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just one day after a grand jury made its decision about Darren Wilson, this officer goes public, and he gave a 90-minute interview to ABC News and it turns out he shares one belief with many of his critics.

The way he says Michael Brown acted just doesn't make sense, and here is what told ABC News after explaining how he shot Michael Brown the first time in his patrol car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: I was so shocked by the whole interaction, because this was -- escalated so quickly from a simple request to now a fight for survival.

And it still does not make sense to me why someone would act in that way and be so mad instantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And officer Wilson says that after wounding Brown's hand from that first shot, Brown ran away and then turned toward the officer and began to "charge" at him.

Officer Wilson says that he paused the gunfire twice and warning Brown each time to stop, but that Brown was running through the shots, and again, using Wilson's words here, and so Wilson explained what went through his mind when Michael Brown first began to move toward him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILSON: His right hand immediately goes into the waistband and his left hand is a fist at his side, and he starts charging me.

My initial thought was, is there a weapon in there? Is there a knife? Is there a brick? What is in there? Why is your hand going there? At that time, I gave myself another mental check. Can I shoot this guy? Legally, can I? And the question that I answered myself was, I have to. If I don't, he will kill me if he gets to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, HLN's Nancy Grace.

And, Nancy, thank you for coming on. I just want to begin. There is a lot we can talk about, but was there any one thing you were waiting to hear from officer Wilson that he just didn't say?

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Yes.

And when people say, it just does not add up, I will tell you what doesn't add up, these photos, because I was expecting to see -- and we have all seen them. I have looked at them. I have studied them. I was expecting to see his face mangled.

And I hear what he is saying, that he was afraid and this happened and that happened, but I always go back to the beginning. And the beginning is this. You have an armed man and an unarmed man, and the unarmed man is shot six to seven times. One of those may be a reentry. That is why it may be six. Six to seven times.

He unloaded many, many more bullets. Why? He doesn't even have a bruise. Right? It is red. He's got a red mark. I don't see it. And another thing. When he says, it all happened so fast I could not think, then later says, I paused and thought, can I legally shoot him?

Listen, that doesn't add up, because. There are so many things that don't add up.

BALDWIN: He says he did not have other options. That is from the mouth of officer Wilson.

GRACE: Look, do you know how many times I have ever sided against a cop? Never.

But to me, this is bigger than a badge. And I don't like speaking out against a cop, but this doesn't add up. And another thing, grand jury. I have presented to grand juries so many times, I can't even count them. On a single day, we would present 75 to 150 cases to a grand jury.

And we would do that two times a week when I had grand jury duty. I feel that the district attorney, as much as I respect him in other ways, used the grand jury to do what he wanted them to do as his tool. He didn't want to drop it. He presented it in such a way that this grand jury would not bring charges, and I don't like that.

BALDWIN: And I know a lot of people agree with you. And let me just -- let me tap into your knowledge just as a prosecutor, because you hear this from Ben Crump and then the team on the Michael Brown side saying that they were frustrated. They felt like the testimony of the grand jury, i.e., the testimony from officer Wilson especially when he likened himself to a 5-year-old, and felt like Michael Brown, like Hulk Hogan was coming at him, and that his credibility and his testimony was not challenged, is it the DA's responsibility?

If you're in a grand jury, is it the prosecutor's responsibility to challenge that? Is it the grand jurors to ask questions? What was missing?

GRACE: The grand jurors are like sheep. They're babes in the woods. The prosecutor's duty is to seek the truth.

And here's the difference between me and Crump and Parks. I'm not paid one way or the other. My paycheck does not depend on my opinion. I'm not working for anybody, except the truth. And I am telling you that prosecutors, if they want an indictment, they will get an indictment.

When I went to a grand jury, I went to the grand jury on each case because I believed that the offense had been committed and I had the right guy or the police had the right guy. And I went in there to present them our evidence. If I didn't think there was a case, I would never have gone to the grand jury.

You don't use the grand jury to achieve your personal gain and to achieve what you want them to do. You go in to get a true verdict. Please, there is nothing here. There's not even a bruise. And what you said about Hulk Hogan, remember, when he said he felt like a 5- year-old battling the Hulk Hogan, that is when all he was battling was an arm in his patrol car.

What, the arm is like the Hulk Hogan? It does not add up. And his minute detail, this whole thing happened in 90 seconds. How did he have time to pause and say, can I legally shoot him? He also said, I only wanted to do one thing, and that's live.

Well, if you wanted to live, then put the pedal to the metal and drive when the guy is trying to jump in your car and grab your gun. That makes sense, right?

BALDWIN: Nancy Grace, you got a lot to talk about tonight. We will be watching for you 8:00 Eastern on HLN. Thank you so much. As always, love hearing your expertise and your opinion.

GRACE: Thank you.

And Michael Brown's parents are going to be with me tonight. And I'm looking forward to hearing more from them.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Excellent. I look forward to that as well.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Nancy, thank you.

And now to this. Let's turn the page and talk about the weather.

Snow, icy rain, nastiness slamming the eastern part of country, causing massive travel headaches. For those of you trying to make it home for the Thanksgiving holiday, our Rosa Flores is there for us. She is outside. Whew.

It looks cold, Rosa Flores, on the Massachusetts Turnpike. She is going talk to us about conditions out there after the quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)