Return to Transcripts main page

Dr. Drew

Stalking: Through the Eyes of a Predator and Through the Eyes of Victims

Aired November 26, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW (voice-over): Tonight, stalking; through the eyes of a textbook predator and those who

have been stalked. Who does it, why? And, how can a threat be stopped? Let us get started.

Good evening. My co-host Samantha Schacher here with me. And, we are devoting our entire show to stalking. It affects people who are famous,

not famous. It does not discriminate on age, race, socioeconomic, whatever. Stalking is everywhere.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL": And I know you have had a stalking -

PINSKY: A couple of stalkers.

SCHACHER: Oh my Gosh, Dr. Drew. We are going to actually get into your story later in the show. So, stay tuned.

PINSKY: Fantastic. Cannot wait to tell it.

SCHACHER: I am sure.

PINSKY: Relive it. But, first, what is stalking behavior? What causes people to stalk? Jodi Arias was a stalker, of course, she stalked Travis

Alexander, when the relationship started going south. And, then she murdered him. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DETECTIVE: The motive is there. The jealousy issue.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: But I was not -- I wouldn`t even say it was jealous. I mean, there may have been some jealousy there, but I think

if anyone.

DETECTIVE: Then what is it? What caused this?

ARIAS: I think if, you know, if anyone, maybe Travis was jealous, but -

DETECTIVE: That`s not what everybody else says.

911 CALLER: There`s a girl that`s been stalking him. OK, so last weekend, his stalker, he told her he never wanted to see her again. He had a big

confrontation.

911 CALLER: Well, several times she slit people`s tires that were parked in front of his house.

Does anyone know Jodi`s last name?

DETECTIVE: She called me, crying hysterically when she decided to move to Mesa, Arizona. She snuck up to his house and she looked in the window and

she saw him on the couch with another woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would sneak into his house through the doggy door and sleep on his couch at night without him knowing.

DETECTIVE: You are absolutely obsessed. Obsessed is the word that they use. That`s the word I hear from everybody.

Fatal attraction. I don`t know how many times I heard that. Look at Jodi. She had to have done this, or she had someone to do it for her.

There is not one person that says anything else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: So, are you a stalker? I posed that question to my panel. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Ladies, have you ever done a drive by to check on a boyfriend or somebody you are interested in or somebody, come on, drive by. There is

one.

CHRISTI PAUL, HLN ANCHOR: I might have in college.

JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM: Of course in college, when we were young.

PINSKY: It is sort of an adolescent behavior. Cheryl, I am stunned that you have never done this.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Really? Really?

PAUL: So we are all stalkers, is that it?

PINSKY: Well --

HUTT: Hold on. Wait. Wait. Wait. Can I ask Cheryl a question?

PAUL: Sure.

HUTT: Have you shown up like at a bar or a club where you knew the guy might be, but he did not know you are going to show up --

ARUTT: Yes.

HUTT: -- and then you made it like you just ran into him.

ARUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: OK.

ARUTT: I just have not driven by, but I have put myself in situations hoping I would see somebody.

PINSKY: Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

PAUL: Are we stalkers? Are we stalkers?

PINSKY: That is stalking behavior.

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYHOLOGIST: No.

HUTT: No, we are trackers.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: No. And, Jenny, you are trying to scare me a little bit, Jenny. But the fact is that people now do that through social media. They do it

in all kinds of ways.

PAUL: Right.

ARUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: And it is a primitive impulse, and I think everyone kind of relate to, but a lot of people have done it --

WALSH: But, Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Listen, it is when -- it is when relationships are too intense. When they are too intense, when people confuse intensity for love and the

thing fractures and people do not know how to deal with the comings and goings of intimate contact. That is when people stalk --

PAUL: Right.

PINSKY: -- and that is why it is adolescent. That is when they are learning those things. What is that, Wendy?

WALSH: But, Dr. Drew, I would not call it stalking. I really like the idea of calling it tracking because the truth I --

HUTT: Thank you.

WALSH: -- once you have had that attachment, it does not just die right away.

PINSKY: Right.

WALSH: There is a grieving period.

HUTT: Right.

WALSH: There is a mourning period. And, so, for us healthy people on your behavior bureau, to be able to, you know, look on Facebook or Twitter

for a few days or at a vulnerable moment is a whole lot different than somebody crawling in a doggy door and sleeping on someone`s sofa.

PINSKY: Yes.

PAUL: True. Yes.

HUTT: There is also a distinction -- hold on. A little bit cuckoo for coco puffs and sharing that with your friends and letting them know that

you are wigging out, and having them help you and go with you at the bar or the club, and making sure they know when you are driving by.

WALSH: Right.

PINSKY: Yes.

HUTT: Then it is not as sort of weird, because it is not on the --

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL: Is that OK? Am I being crazy? And you bring me in?

HUTT: Sure, you ask. Sure. You check in.

PINSKY: Trying to get that support, so I work on through this because I know I am out of control. As opposed to friends calling your parents in

the middle of the night saying, "Oh, my God, Jenny is gone. Her tracking has gone off track." It is what happened with Jodi. Her parents were

calling.

ARUTT: OK. I have a serious one.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

HUTT: I would also say with this whole --

PINSKY: Go.

ARUTT: The thing, I think we should think about that this is the first time I`ve ever heard stalking talked about in terms of the victim`s fear

reaction.

PINSKY: You know why, Cheryl? I will tell you why. Cheryl, I found out why. Because apparently in the law, for it to be a legal issue, the victim

has to be afraid.

ARUTT: OK.

PINSKY: I agree with you from the clinical standpoint, but the fear comes way late. You are not even aware that somebody is talking to you until way

late in the game and then you cannot believe it. I have been stalked. And then, later, and then you think, "Oh, my God." Now, you get afraid. Then

you call the cops. That is way down the line.

ARUTT: But, let us look at gender, because for a girl to be afraid of a guy who`s bigger and stronger, that is one thing. But a guy who want to

still keep hooking up with somebody -- you know, the thing is that for him to reach a level --

PINSKY: Yes.

ARUTT: -- where he was actually afraid of her --

PINSKY: Yes.

ARUTT: it would have to override the turn on, the libido.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: In this case, I agree.

HUTT: That is the whole crazy girl, crazy sex mentality.

PINSKY: I agree. However, he might think she was going to go public or tell his friends about what she knew about, what they have been doing.

There could be that fear too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: All right, Sam, have you ever stalked -- I mean tracked anybody?

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: I knew this question was coming. I guess you could say in high school --

PINSKY: I guess you could say?

SCHACHER: -- and college I tracked.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: I tracked, and I did not necessarily want to see where they were going. I just wanted to randomly show up. So, I could present myself

with, "Oh, fancy seeing you here."

That is the position that I would put myself in. But big difference between that and Jodi Arias who was breaking into Travis` homes. Taking

his journals, following him on dates. That is crazy behavior.

PINSKY: Big difference?

SCHACHER: Right?

PINSKY: A big difference?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: We will talk more about that.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: Well, speaking of tracking. We tracked down a few guys who knew Jodi. One even had dated her for short time. And, they had some very

harsh words for her. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS: This big mystique thing, this Mars and Venus nonsense. Look, at the time I knew her, I was a little bit older

than she was. She was a cute girl with a cute butt. She had this long blonde hair went all the way to said butt. It was awesome, and I thought

great. She could construct a sentence. How bad could it be?

Hindsight being 20/20, fine. But everyone knew this, like," oh, how could you?" I had no idea. If she told me at the time, she just killed

somebody, I do not know if we would have gotten dinner.

PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Josh, your first impression compared to what you think of her now?

JOSH DENNE, KNOW JODI ARIAS: Jodi, my first impression, she was the type of girl that wanted to introduce herself to anybody that was doing well or

any one that could, I think, further whatever she wanted to do in life.

And, she just -- she creeped me out, quite honestly when I saw her. I mean, she was an attractive woman but just had something strange with her.

PINSKY: Mark Eiglarsh, I think everyone kind of -- I cannot get a focus on what these guys are talking about. I mean hot chick. They are sexually

attractive. They think she is sort of good to go. Is that what they are telling us?

BLOOM: I think so.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think so. But there is nothing at all sexy about a stalker, first of all.

PINSKY: Yes.

EIGLARSH: And, the person who is capable of torturing Travis the way that she did. But I think equally as bad is that she is torturing his family

now --

PINSKY: Yes.

EIGLARSH: Every day that she is on the stand. And, I do want to add one thing that I do not think that people have spoken about. In an interview

with "48 Hours," the detective said when he went to arrest her, that she was very calm and the one request that she had of him was, "Can I have a

moment? I want to go get my purse, so I can put on some makeup."

PINSKY: Yes. Ooh, sounds like Casey Anthony.

BLOOM: Yes.

PINSKY: Josh, did you have any sense that that was in this woman?

DENNE: When I first met her, that was my instinct. You know, she just supposed -- she just had something off with her. It was challenging me.

Obviously, she was an attractive woman. She is not being portrayed like she is in the court, you know? She is bleach blonde hair. She dressed

provocative and that was her.

But instantly, I mean, I did not get her phone number. I did not want to associate with her. So, for me, I was just saying this earlier. It is

like she is -- she just -- she had that weird energy about her and it repelled me.

PINSKY: Repellant. That is good, Josh. That is good instinct. Let us go to some calls, guys. Kathy in New Hampshire -- Kathy.

KATHY, NEW HAMPSHIRE. Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Kathy.

KATHY: I think that Jodi`s looks for sensuality and her phony aura of innocent personally firstly attracts the men. And, then she flatters them

or acts really needy, and when they find out she is willing to participate in kinky sex, they are sold.

BLOOM: Well, that sums right up.

(LAUGHING)

KATHY: Abe, do you agree?

ABDELHADI: Well, I did not get that far with her, so I do not have any firsthand knowledge of that. However, there is an attractiveness to her.

And, you know, like I said, when I went out with her, I thought it would just be fun for a little while.

I got on her MySpace page. She had all these superfluous adjectives about how great she was and blah, blah, blah. And, I thought, "OK, I cannot take

this too seriously, but you know, it will be fun for a little bit. We will see what happens."

PINSKY: Let us go to Tim in Pennsylvania -- Tim.

TIM, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Tim.

TIM: I think that the real underlying issue in this case is not the the alleged history of abuse, but as a result of her atypical relationships.

Jodi Arias never really understood love or how to deal with the everyday give-and-take of a normal relationship. Do you agree?

PINSKY: Well, Tim, I do agree. You know, she dated a vampire, remember in school. Her relationships were not good and stable. But there is so much

packed into that statement, Tim. I know it sounds like it makes sense.

But how people conduct themselves in their interpersonal relationships is where all their psychopathology comes out. That is where we really see it.

Janine, you back me up on that?

JANINE DRIVER, BLI`S PRESIDENT: I do. Yes. Definitely. It is that combination. There are people who start out bad, bad beginnings and become

very successful. Do you think Oprah had a beautiful childhood?

Look at it. You know, Bill Clinton, his father died three months before he was born in a car accident in the side of the road. You can turn a

terrible beginning into a great life and make a difference.

PINSKY: But --

DRIVER: You do not have to become a psychopath.

PINSKY: That is good. I absolutely agree. And, even people that -- well, let us just say that people`s liabilities, whatever they might be, do

express themselves in their interpersonal lives. And these two, the alchemy of these two people was dynamite.

It was bad times. It was bad for him. And, he had to hide it. He could not reach out and get help. He knew he was in trouble. It was bad for her

because of all the liabilities we have been talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Next up, Jodi`s raunchy sex tapes. What do they say about her and her stalking behavior? And later, the case of Sandra Bullock. What

happens when an obsessed fan crosses the line? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE: If you did not want to be tied up to a tree, why would you go up and look for a place where he could do that?

ARIAS: We were looking for a place out in the woods, nature, to somehow carry out this little red riding hood fantasy.

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, VICTIM: I am going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE WORD) by the way.

ARIAS: What`s that?

ALEXANDER: I am going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE WORD) by the way.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

(LAUGHING)

ALEXANDER: I am going to zip tie your arms around the tree, blindfold you and put a camera on a timer while I am (EXPLETIVE WORD) you. It takes

creativity to top ourselves.

ARIAS: I know it does, we have gotten our way creative in the past.

ALEXANDER: You cannot say I do not know how to work the booty.

ARIAS: Oh, never mind, you do know how to work the booty.

ALEXANDER: For example, I am not the freaking tossed salad type to be honest. But, I would do it -- I love doing it with you.

ARIAS: I seriously think about having sex with you every day. Several times a day. I think how it feels to have your (EXPLETIVE WORD) inside of

me.

ALEXANDER: Can we videotape ourselves?.

ARIAS: (ph) While having sex?

ALEXANDER: Yes.

ARIAS: How are we going to do that?

ALEXANDER: Time.

ARIAS: Yes. You are smart.

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFEID MALE SPEAKER: Let us just say I have seen all of you.

ARIAS: He had a list of fantasies that he wanted to fulfill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER: You like pop rock, interesting one.

ARIAS: Aha.

ALEXANDER: I didn`t like the Pop Rocks as much as I liked the Tootsie Roll part though.

ARIAS: Yes. They were interesting.

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I just live my life by the Ten Commandments, and those are my rules. Thou shall not this or that -- but it does not say thou shall not

fornicate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

ALEXNDER: I like being handled. I like being handled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Are you finished? I am sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: After this encounter on this spiritual day, how did you feel about yourself?

ARIAS: Kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): When you tell us that, that you felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): you made the comment on direct that you felt like a used piece of toilet paper. Do you recall that?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: What was it about your relationship with him that went so wrong?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam. We are talking about stalking. Sam, what goes through your head when you hear those tapes?

SCHACHER: Blackmail. Jodi Arias was manipulative and calculating. And, she knew that Travis Alexander felt very guilty about their sexual

relationship.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: And, she recorded that phone call when things started to go stout. And her stalker tendencies was obsession and control. And, I think

that she wanted to have that tape to hold over his head to go to places like Cancun with him.

PINSKY: It is so bizarre.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: It was so bizarre. I laughed out loud listening to some of this stuff. I cannot believe it. No wonder we are also fixated.

SCHACHER: I felt so bad. I mean we think about what Travis Alexander -- how he was torn from knowing that he was horrible for him, but then he was

really addicted to the sex.

PINSKY: Yes, that intensity that people get stuck with and that is where they get in trouble. They confuse intensity with love and things fall

apart. Things go bad. That is when stalking kicks in.

And, when is it that Jodi arias in fact crossed that line with Travis Alexander? Can people be addicted to each other? Could that contribute

to stalking? We indeed spoke about unhealthy attachments that get crazy. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Christi and I were talking off-the-air here about how there were two Travises. And, let me go for a little second here and say this. That

many times when kids are abused, technically if they are sexually abused, they are sort of cut off a part of themselves.

They have a bad self that they do bad things with bad people, and they have a good self when they do not show any of that to anybody else. Do you

agree with that this maybe what is going on here with Travis?

ARUTT: It may be, Dr. Drew, what is going on with Travis. He got to act out all of the kind of edgy kind of freaky stuff that he wanted to do with

Jodi, who could look like somebody who participated in the church and did all that stuff.

But at the same time, she was someone that he could play with and bring out this other part of himself. You know, if the two of them were adults and

consenting and no murder or anything happened, I do not think we would be talking about any of this.

PINSKY: Right. That is interesting.

PAUL: Right.

PINSKY: So, it is not that it is so bizarre necessarily. I mean maybe unsavory. We may not like that. We have to look it up in the urban

dictionary to find out what the hell they are talking about.

But it is not necessarily pathological. Wendy, do you agree with that? And, do you agree with my theory of disavowed aspects of self being acted

out by Travis?

WALSH: I agree with both things. But there is something else I want to point out about this and other phone sex conversations that I have heard

between them. You know, I am grown up woman. I will tell you. I have had some much better phone sex in my life.

Where is the affect? Where is the actual feeling? I do not feel like they are actually being aroused. I feel like they have disassociated in this

phone call and they are really sort of like children just laying out a plot.

She is kind of giggling. She does not sound aroused. He does not sound aroused while they are talking. So, where is the affect in their voice,

and why have they disassociated in this phone call? It is very strange to me.

PINSKY: Well, first of all, Wendy, I`m sort of overwhelmed by your comment.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Let me start with that. And, then I think you`re on to something, though. And, again, people that disavow feelings and parts of themselves

do disassociate and I think you are picking up on that. Jenny, all the clinicians are sitting here and talking to me. Help us, you have a

relationship show on Sirius.

HUTT: OK.

PINSKY: Help us take this into lay language.

HUTT: This is what I think. You keep saying disavowed behavior, blah blah blah. I think we do not know what goes on most of the time behind closed

doors with people. People get into some freaky kinds of sex. And, I could explain tossed salad if you need me too, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Jenny, thank you for that. But I just, I`m trying to deal with what Wendy said, still. I`m going to take --

(CROSSTALK)

HUTT: Wait, wait. Wendy is right. But Wendy is right. There is this weird sort of not hot thing in that phone sex. It`s not hot.

PINSKY: Yes.

HUTT: And I certainly, again, do not feel like Jodi was being abused by Travis. Jodi was choosing to do this. Frankly, if somebody said to me I`m

going to put this there and I was not interested in that there, that would not be there.

PINSKY: Again, I am following. I am following everybody.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Jenny, and so your point is that she is consenting. She is a part of this.

HUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: I say, I say because this guy was so badly abused as a kid he is prone to getting sucked into something like this. And once he`s in,

because that part of himself, he tonight even really understand is there, she`s gotten that out. And it`s just operates, and he can`t get out of

there.

HUTT: Right.

WALSH: So you think that she, is she the one that you are saying -- do you think she`s the one that`s perpetuating this whole thing?

PINSKY: I think it`s a perfect storm. I think the two of them together created this incredibly uber intense sex addicted kind of relationship, but

that she is the one using it for power and control. And he`s the one who can`t get out because he`s so addicted to it. Who`s that? Go, Wendy.

WALSH: It is Wendy. I have to say something. You know --

PINSKY: I don`t want to hear about your personal life necessarily.

WALSH: No.

PINSKY: Maybe (INAUDIBLE), but go ahead.

WALSH: Let me ask you a question. In a traditional S and M relationship, who has the power, the top or the bottom?

PINSKY: In a traditional relationship?

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL: Man, let me just say, I am not on raising America right now, people.

WALSH: The answer is, it`s the bottom, because the bottom is actually being served. The bottom is the one who`s tied up, who`s unable to

participate and help, so it`s the bottom who`s being served.

And that`s the piece that people don`t get. They think the person in the dominant person is the one in control but they`re not. The bottom is

always in control.

PINSKY: OK. So, Wendy, you`re making a very important point that we can extrapolate to Jodi and Travis which is that though she seemed to be the

passive participant, she was very -- and this is my point -- she`s very active and using sex for power and control, right?

WALSH: Exactly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Next, does social media enable stalkers? We will talk about it with the great Kat Von D. And later, Sandra Bullock comes face-to-face

with her alleged stalker. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam. We are talking about stalking. Now, one of the other unintended consequences of social media is that stalkers can

contact you with a click of a button and they can also cyber stalk you. Celebrity tattoo artist Kat Von D was threatened via social media for a man

who had been harassing her since 2012. Here now is one of the videos he sent to her followed by reaction. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Why is this taking so long with Katy and everything? All right. See what is going on. I just really enjoy Katy`s

little mega videos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We reached out to Kat for a comment here. And, Sam, there`s news from the LAPD, tell me about that.

SCHACHER: Yes. So, the LAPD told us that this is an ongoing investigation and that they do, Dr. Drew, they do know where the suspect is, but they

just don`t see him as a threat at this time.

PINSKY: Whoa.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I want to share with everybody, the panel, some threatening tweets, TMZ reports these tweets, "Get it through your F-ing head! Lose the

game or watch people die!" He also wrote that he was going to, quote, "go Columbine in Los Angeles". Vanessa, that`s not enough for them to go after

this guy?

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: This is infuriating. We talk all of the time about red flags and warning signs. We just talked about it with

the Santa Barbara

shooting.

PINSKY: That is right.

BARNETT: And now, we hear -- we have them here. We have them in our grasp, these warning signs, big red flags and the police are not doing

anything. I would be terrified.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Anahita, you are making me so upset tonight. You are shaking your head, no. No, Anahita Sedaghatfar, do not talk back to me like that, young

lady.

SEDAGHATFAR: I will talk back, Dr. Drew. I will talk back. OK. First of all, if the LAPD haven`t come to that conclusion, I would also say this

is probably criminal stalking. But guess what, I think the police know a lot more about this man, a lot more about this case than we do.

All we know is what`s reported in the media. I mean, they have been investigating this guy for over two years and they clearly do not think

he`s an eminent threat to Kat Von D or to anybody else.

PINSKY: Well, it sure looks like. Sam, doesn`t it look like it?

SCHACHER: That`s what I -- exactly. You read his tweets and you look at this video and he does not seem well. Isn`t this enough to put him on like

a 51/50 so he can go through a psychiatric evaluation.

PINSKY: Well, they may have already done that. Sam, they may have done that. They may have done that repeatedly. You can only hold somebody for

three days. Heather, you must have had stalkers out there. You have something called erotomania. You ever heard of that?

HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIAN: No.

SCHACHER: What is that?

PINSKY: It`s celebrity stalkers who got to get obsessed with them.

MCDONALD: I would have thought that by now I was cute enough to have a stalker. I have not actually had a real stalker. But I have gotten

disturbing tweets and I ignore them. I either block them or if they`re mean funny, like this guy said I have flamingo legs, and I do kind of have

flamingo legs, then I just like retweet it and let the haters get to them.

But this is really, really scary and I really feel for her because -- you know, she`s probably so afraid just to go to a mall by herself. And I feel

really badly for her. You know, I think that they`re probably hopefully working with --

PINSKY: Well, he may have a psychiatrist they`re working with. Obviously, law enforcement is involved. But all the people alongside, they`re

alongside Heather a second ago, those pictures you saw, are people who have stalkers, Vanessa.

BARNETT: Yes, and I`m just confused because we`ve talked about the fact that this man has been stalking her for years.

SCHACHER: Yes.

BARNETT: She has a restraining order against him since to 2012 that`s supposed to go for three years.

PINSKY: And now, he can go Columbine to the rest of us. I`m worried about the rest of us being safe here.

BARNETT: Right.

SEDAGHATFAR: Hopefully, not. Hopefully not, Dr. Drew. But we need to take the police for their word here. Here`s another thing, here`s another

good story about social media, because here, the police can use his Facebook, his Twitter account and his YouTube channel. I guarantee they`re

monitoring him closely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Next, La Toya Jackson has a stalking story of her own. She is here to talk about it. And later, what do Sandra Bullock and the situation

have in common? I will explain. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You have to understand, Kat, my life is over because of you. Therefore, what would my only reason for living be?

Revenge? Get it through your (EXPLETIVE WORD) head. Lose the game or watch people die. You are running out of time and I am not running out of anger

or determination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam. That of course was a re-enactment of the disturbing tweet sent to Kat Von D from a guy who had been talking her for

two years. Now, Sam, you know, Vanessa had a right. We keep saying look for the red flags on social media. That is more than a red flag. That is

a screaming endorsement to go get that guy.

SCHACHER: Yes. Now, in social media, you have a window into their demeanor, their character. They put it out there. They are kind of

apologetic. But, it is scary, because they flip like that. They go from loving you and being obsessed to all of a sudden realizing that you are not

their wife or their husband and that reality shatters and then boom, that is when they getting vengeful.

PINSKY: It is interesting that it is the shattering moment that causes the violence. Same thing happened to Jodi Arias, right? Oh, love you, love

you, it is really not going to happen.

SCHACHER: But, she was not delusional, right? As oppose to the people actually believe that you for instance is their husband.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: There is a difference there.

PINSKY: Yes, there is a difference.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: Well, La Toya Jackson had a strong reaction to the story. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LA TOYA JACKSON: This is just awful. We cannot wait until it`s too late. Growing up, we had lots of stalkers and the police department knew

about it, the head of our security knew about it, but they would keep it out of the media in a sense simply because once it`s publicized and in the

media, sometimes other stalkers join in and feel they can do the same thing.

PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting.

JACKSON: So, our head of security would say keep it out of the media, never say anything about it, but we will take care of it and they

would work behind the scenes.

PINSKY: La Toya, do you think social media would have made it better or worse?

JACKSON: It`s very difficult to say because there are times I feel that social media can help a great deal, but then there are times when your life

is in more danger. But I do feel and believe that because he`s putting this out there, that we can track him.

PINSKY: Jacinta, let me ask you, should -- so anybody who becomes a celebrity just expect the some point they`re going to have a stalker?

JACINTA JIMENEZ: Yes. Well it increases the likelihood for sure because there`s certain types of delusional disorders such as erotomania, I

heard you mentioned that earlier, where people believe that they have a special relationship with usually a famous person and it can become

dangerous when they realize, oh, I don`t have a special relationship a them and then they get resentful and then they get revengeful.

PINSKY: And, Vanessa, you have a terrifying experience yourself, right?

BARNETT: I did. I think that`s why I take this so seriously. I`m not a celebrity, but I had a peeping tom. I had someone in any window filming me

while I was nude and I was home alone at the time. And it was terrifying.

And, to think that someone can do something like that or tweet something or say whatever they want to and the police are kind of reserved and are

holding back until something happens. We can`t wait that long.

PINSKY: No. I know.

BARNETT: It`s too dangerous.

PINSKY: Sam, what do you say?

SCHACHER: Yes. Well, I do think -- listen, I think that social media is very beneficial in catching these people by following them.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: But I also think it`s a double edged sword because just like Jacinta said, those that are subject to paranoia and delusions may think

that someone is talking to them through the TV or through lyrics in a song.

Can you imagine how amplified it is when they`re following someone on Twitter or a YouTube video? That much more personal.

PINSKY: In the early days of social media, I had a stalker. He was on MySpace. Is that what we called it? MySpace. And, he was saying horrible

stuff. I thought whatever. I didn`t think much of it.

Then, I got a summons to Santa Monica small claims court where he made a claim I planted something in his tooth that made his sexual organs respond

in bizarre ways and they took the suit.

It was unbelievable to me that the Santa Monica Court would take that. I threw it away and then it came back and they said you`re going to be

charged $2,000 if you do not show up.

SCHACHER: Wow!

PINSKY: And then I thought this guy`s name is familiar to me. I wonder if it`s that guy who`s so psychotic, I wonder if that psychotic guy on

Facebook. Lo and behold, it was.

SCHACHER: MySpace.

PINSKY: I clicked through the MySpace, in MySpace page, he had a Web site linking it and the Web site was hundreds of pages talking about how he was

going to torture me and my children. My wife caught wind of it, she called the police and they responded beautifully.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: They found this guy. So, we had great help from it. And she stood in front of the moment, my wife -- honey, I love you -- she said, do

you see what -- this guy is talking about harming my children. I am not afraid to die. You need to do something or I`m going to go kill him. I am

not afraid to die. Suddenly Jason Ellis.

And, so, I thought, it did, it worked out fine. The guy was psychotic. He was on methamphetamine. He also had some schizophrenic form type of stuff.

He was treated successfully and his delusions went away. It was kind of a winning story for everybody. It could have gone differently. These can go

very bad.

JIMENEZ: Yes, it can go very bad because they think if I can`t be connected to them in a personal loving relationship, then I can

get connected to them in a tragic way, and that`s when they resort to violence.

PINSKY: And, they do. It`s nonsensical and it`s absolutely violent. La Toya, last thoughts.

JACKSON: And that`s what`s so bad about it because they truly believe they`re in love with you, you`re in love with them, and you have this

whole life together.

And once they realize, they come to the conclusion that, no, I don`t know you, you have nothing to do with me, that flips, that turns and change, and

they`re ready to kill you and attack you. And they let you know that.

We`ve had this in our life. I`ve had them in my room and they follow me. They were in my room, putting up my wallpaper this one guy. Little did I

know that he was stalking me. He knew every inch in my room, everything about it.

PINSKY: Were the police responsive? Did they help you get the guy?

JACKSON: Yes, they did. The head of our security helped in everything. But he followed me everywhere I went. He said we had three kids together

and I`m not being a good mother and I need to come home and take care of the kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Wild. Next up, Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino is here. He identifies with Sandra Bullock`s experience. He will tell you about it,

after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Sandra bullock had a rude awakening Sunday. According to the Los Angeles Police Department, an intruder broke into her

home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The suspect, 39-year-old Joshua Corbett of Glendale actually gained entry into Bullock`s home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is asleep and this guy is going around her home for over an hour?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead of freaking out and getting hysterical, she retreated back to her room, locked the door, called 911, I mean that

is brilliant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam. We have dedicated this entire show to the subject of stalking. And, Sandra Bullock came face-to-face with her

stalker. He scaled her fence, broke into her home. That was earlier this year. And, I asked my guest it is they had ever been stalked. Take a

look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: It doesn`t really count if you`re as ugly as I am, but sure.

PINSKY: But, I want to hear The Situation. What happened to you?

MIKE `THE SITUATION` SORRENTINO, ACTOR: I`ve had a couple stalkers. But the funniest one probably was when I was doing Dancing with the Stars.

The security walked me into the SUV and I would have to say and I was flattered. It was like a grandmother. She must have been like 60 or 70.

And she just rolled out underneath the car like McGyver and she was like, "Hey," you know, "Picture time." And I was like, you now, I got my

stance and everything but then that`s grandmas right there so I was like, "Oh, OK."

PINSKY: Yes. And, I have had them too --

JASON ELLIS, RADIO HOST, AUTHOR: Yes. It is a different story.

PINSKY: Jason, yours -- what was yours like?

ELLIS: Well, mine wasn`t even a girl. It was like a guy that keeps showing. He sent photos on the internet of what the inside of my

house look like in. And then, you know, all of time -- but I`m bigger than him. I can kill him anyway.

It`s not -- it doesn`t count. It`s only intimidating if you`re really hot and someone`s bigger than you and they`re men, they`re in your house. I

mean everything else changes. We`re not really famous. I`m sorry. We didn`t -- sure, you`re real. Everyone else in this box is .

SEDAGHATFAR: Speak for yourself.

ELLIS: You`re not -- wait, good luck on your future career. But not yet, you`re not saving your body. None of this does.

SCHACHER: This guy had machine guns, fake machine guns.

PINSKY: Yes, that`s right. This guy was really not right. He had multiple automatic weapons. He had letters. I`ve got the search

warrant and the affidavit here. He`s been using -- he had a wrap sheet too from other substance use.

But in this letter, he had sort of, you know, cut-out magazine, pictures of her. You can talk about her being his -- he was the husband and he was

also the father of her child. I mean really weird, distorted, delusional stuff.

But let`s say he was an addict also. I`m not sure that has something to do with this here. Gentlemen, you`ve had addiction issues. Can you

imagine ever doing something like this or are we saying this is something far, far different than addiction?

ELLIS: Well, I`ve got your phone number. Why would I need to like come to your -- I can figure out how to get to your house whenever I want, Drew.

So, I`m pretty much cool.

PINSKY: All right. Mike?

SORRENTINO: No, no way, no way. I know for a fact that I`ve been, you know, raised, you know, that if someone comes in your home, you have

the right to protect yourself. So, I would never, ever, you know, enter someone`s home because I know what to expect.

PINSKY: Anahita, this guy to me seems dangerous and I don`t see any treatment for him. Are they likely to put him away for a long time?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, yes. I mean I think he has a criminal record and I think I kind of agree with what you said earlier. I think that a lot

of this has to do with alcohol and substance abuse.

PINSKY: I don`t know. No, I`m saying it doesn`t. I`m saying that my stalker was a masked guy and he had very bizarre dilutions about me that

I even planted something in his tooth. It was causing bodily activities, very bizarre. He needed small claims, a court date against me, and I --

ELLIS: I can relate to that. I feel like you put something in my mind and make me love you dude, because it`s out of control. I got to stop it.

PINSKY: You guys .

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s scary though.

PINSKY: it is scary. It is scary. But, some people are trainable and some people are not. Something we always make it a point about in this

show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That explains it. Jason implanted something in my head to make me love him. That is what happened. He was telling me something there.

SCHACHER: Oh my Gosh. And, there is a lot of stories that we are getting on Twitter.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: Not as bizarre as yours. From Norah McMannus, she wrote the letter was chilling. "I think Sandra Bullock is very lucky that she and

her son are alive tonight. And, a personal story from Beret Mackey, "The law does not do a great job of protecting one from stalkers. Had a nut to

contend with many years ago. Not a vacation."

PINSKY: You know, historically, I think he is right. Most communities are trying to get up to speed with stalking. In Los Angeles, there is special

departments of the D.A. dedicated to celebrity stalking.

SCHACHER: But is it more so because they are celebrities? What about the evidence people, are they getting the attention?

PINSKY: Again, I think at least these people take the topic of stalking much more seriously. They understand that, but the police would be like

"Oh, so the girl sits in a car outside your house, big deal." But they understand this can be violent now.

SCHACHER: Right. And, we have more evidence with social media too. You can show them the police threat.

PINSKY: That is right. Perfect. All right. We are going to continue and be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandy, you could have had me today, however, you choose other people over me. You are very special to me and without you in my

life there is only misery.

I`ve waited and waited and you never come, perhaps this is all supposed to happen some other way. I saw you come home after the AFI gala and only

wished I was at the entrance for your heart when you came home." There are two large emperous gates that no one can open but you. I hope

one day you open them to me. Until then, I will forever be thinking of you and Louie my son as you are my wife by law, the law of God and you belong

to me and me to you. I forgive you for anything you may have done and only want the chance to love you."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Chilling, huh?

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: Back with Sam. That was a re-enactment of one of the many disturbing messages found in the notebook of a man obsessed with Sandra

Bullock. Sam, what would you do if you found in your house and particularly someone you knew?

SCHACHER: Well, I think about it all the time. I always feel like someone is in my house. I feel like I am always on high alert.

PINSKY: We have medication for that, Sam. That is a conversation for later. But yes, a lot of people, young women especially have to be

vigilant.

SCHACHER: I do. I am ready. If somebody were in my house, I would do anything and everything possible. I would take a lamp. I would take a

knife, whatever it may be to protect myself.

PINSKY: So,s the message here is, stay away from Samantha Schacher.

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Well, I asked "The Situation," how he would react if confronted by a stalker in his own home. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SORRENTINO: I mean because -- I mean do you want the politically correct answer?

PINSKY: No.

SCHACHER: No. Please no. The real stuff.

SEDAGHATFAR: Speak the truth.

SORRENTINO: You want the real stuff. Because if someone entered my home or one of my love one`s home, I mean I am going to recover right now and --

God, I do have anguish, you saw it. I`d like him to come see me first.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: I have a follow-up question really quick, if you don`t mind.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: Because a lot of -- you had a lot of women that would show up to the Jersey Shore House because everyone knew where it was. How are

you able to decipher between a wild fan and one that possibly .

PINSKY: Could be dangerous?

SCHACHER: Yes, dangerous?

SORRENTINO: You take it for a face value at that time. You know, you`re on a show that`s sort of a party show and, you know, you don`t know,

you know, these girls` intentions when they come up to you. So, you know, you really just take it moment by moment, minute by minute, and you really

try to judge .

PINSKY: (Inaudible) Jason is going to take this, Mike, but I saw him smirk. Go ahead, Jason.

ELLIS: I mean can you just leave me out of this one a little bit.

PINSKY: All right. Let me just describe different kinds of stalkers for a second. There`s simple obsessional, which is somebody who had a

previous relationship with some then they get obsessed with them and things don`t work out.

Erotomania is a person of higher status and they fall in love with them. That`s what is going on here with Jason -- with this Sandra Bullock

stalker. And then love obsessional, this is often a stalker who wants to make their presence known to everybody but can`t. This is erotomania.

These people can be dilutional, they can be dangerous. This is psychotic stalking and there is no telling where it could go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was a nice little summary of stalking. The kinds -- the categories of stalking. So, if you DVR us, you can watch us any time and

review that information. thank you for watching. We will see you next time.

END