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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Details of the Winter Storm Hampering Holiday Travel; Further Examination of Ferguson Grand Jury Testimony and Evidence

Aired November 26, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHAD MYERS, CNN WEATHER ANCHOR: Delays, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, Newark, they're probably going to get longer as the day goes on. If that number of hours or minutes delays doesn't go up, Pamela, it's because the flights are just canceled. They're not considered delays if they're not going at all. So, that's how they try to keep those numbers of delays down.

There's about 10 percent cancellation right now. And there are 10 percent empty seats on the next flight to get those people on. So, that's what the patience is going to be. The best thing I can tell you to do is don't pack a bag to put under the plane, take very little with you, take it with you on the plane. Therefore, if you get diverted or if you're trying to get to Minneapolis but you can't get out, but you can't get to Memphis and then to Minneapolis, if you had your bag with you, they will allow that kind of transfer if there's a seat.

If your bag, your check bag is down on the tarmac, forget about it, you have to wait for the next flight going to your destination. Pack lightly and as Jennifer said, "Pack your patience," sometimes that very, very hard to do it. It gets better from here. The heaviest snow happens tonight and then it's finally all over tomorrow's great. But, I would think...

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Good.

MYERS: ... Rosa said the mass (ph) turnpike (inaudible) is going to be done to 40, I think that's a gift. It could be down to 20, a lot of these roads now especially the P.W. Parkway, I-95 getting down about 20 miles per hour. There are so many accidents out there right now and it not going to get better.

BROWN: Yes. Now, I can go -- I think Rosa was staying optimistic for us. But, sounds like the travel home will be a lot better than getting there.

Chad Myers, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

MYERS: You're welcome.

BROWN: And we are continuing to follow the fallout of a grand jury's decision not to indict an officer in the shooting death of an unarmed teenager. Ahead, we focus on the evidence, what the juror see or hear that convince them that no charges should be filed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Fallout from the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown is spreading far beyond Ferguson, Missouri. Demonstrators flooded streets and about 170 cities overnight, as we see right here, blocking bridges, tunnels, even major highways.

In Oakland, protestors smashed windows of a car dealership and looted stores. And in Ferguson last night, 44 arrests, far fewer than Monday night, much less destruction as well. Protestors flipped over Ferguson police cruiser, broke out the windows and then set it on fire.

And police are also investigating the death of a 20-year-old found in his car yesterday morning, just blocks from where Michael Brown was shot in August. Police have not determined if a death was linked to the protest there.

And with widely differing witness accounts of the Michael brown shooting, the grand jury had to rely on forensics to determine whose version of accounts was plausible. So to talk about this, I want to bring in forensic scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky and CNN and legal analyst, Mel Robins.

You poured over what the grand jury has looked at, the forensics here with witnesses have said, let's focus on the physical evidence. What clarity do you think it provides? What does it tell us?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, if people are really interested in finding out what happened during those 90 critical seconds, they need to look at the physical evidence. There's a lot of evidence. It tells you what happened at the vehicle and it tells you what happened after the vehicle.

At the vehicle, we are looking at DNA, we're looking at tissue, skin tissue, muscle tissue. Inside of the vehicle, as well as on the outside of the door of the vehicle, there's blood...

BROWN: What does it tells us?

KOBILINSKY: ... there's blood patterns. It tells us a story, Michael Brown got inside the vehicle with respect to his hand, perhaps is head. I'm not sure about the head but certainly the hand. It was close to the gun when it went off. There's evidence of that through gunshot residue in the...

BROWN: And the witnesses said there was a tussle at the car so whether or not he was the aggressor, you know, is -- the witnesses had varying accounts on that. But I think that the question is what happened outside of the car when Michael Brown was shot and killed, was he surrendering? Was he charging towards Officer Wilson? What does the physical evidence tell you?

KOBILINSKY: Well there had been three autopsies -- and that's kind of unusual, but they're all basically saying the same thing. There is some subtle differences, how many shots actually hit Michael Brown but essentially, we have the understanding all shots hit in the front, not in the back and that certainly tells you something about the Dorian Johnson and what whoever--what are--witness said, that Police Officer Wilson shot at his back. That's simply is not borne out from by the evidence.

And we do have a blood stain pattern that goes from the point, about 35 feet to the east of the officer. And there is a pattern -- you can tell the directionality of that pattern, in other words the evidence shows that Michael Brown first was 35 feet away and then moved toward the officer.

This is consistent what the officer said, whether or not he was charging and at what rate or whether he was stumbling forward, that's another question but he did end up about eight to 10 feet way from the officer. That's the danger zone where officers are trained to protect themselves.

BROWN: Mel, I want to talk to you about the witness testimony because even a prosecutor said that some of the witnesses lost credibility after they said they changed their stories or what they said didn't lined up with the autopsy results the he was shot in the front.

So what is it? Why is it that account so wildly different. Are there factors that play here?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There are major factor, and first of all as a backdrop, everyone should understand that eye witness testimony is not necessarily accurate. In fact science has proven that it can be inaccurate. And 72 percent of wrongful convictions for rape and murder have been overturned and they were all based on eye witness testimony. That's based on innocence project.

But here's something that you need to understand. First of all, we all think that the brain records things that we see like a tape recorder. We think that it also then recalls it as if you're replaying a tape. That's not true, your brain actually is more like a puzzle, it remember -- it sees certain things and every time you go to retell a story, you're assembling puzzle pieces together.

There are known factors that can impact somebody's memory. If you're looking at a situation that involves people of a different race, you will be less accurate. If there's a gun involved, if you feel a high level of stress, the lighting, the distance, the vantage point, that can be all factors.

BROWN: So it's not that they're just line. That they're just -- purposely, in some cases that they are purposely changing their stories. It could be...

ROBBINS: No. And here's another problem that we have.

BROWN: Right.

ROBBINS: So, the other thing is just that people are highly prone to suggestion. So they did this study where they told people four stories. Three of which were true about your childhood and one totally fake story.

"Pam, remember that time you got lost in the mall and you were really scared and you couldn't find me." And they had a relative there that said, "Yes, Pam, remember, it was before Thanksgiving." A third of the people in the study that were told the fake story suddenly said, "Oh, of course." And then when you ask for more details, Pam would be like, "Oh, I was wearing a red shirt and I remember that clearly."

And so, what happened is two of the witnesses in this case who were originally talking to the media and give statements to the police gave their statements as if they have seen it. When questioned by the FBI, they admitted, "Well, that's what people were saying." And so by merely hearing something, when you reassemble the puzzle pieces, you can add in things that you might have heard in the media. You can add in things that friend said when they were, you know, talking about it.

And so those are the reasons why eye witness testimony, while people are certain that they remember the certain way, there are factors about the brain and factors that are scientifically proven that actually make you inaccurate.

BROWN: I think that's fascinating. And that puts more of an emphasis on the physical evidence...

KOBILINSKY: You got to go with the science, the science has demonstrate that some of these scenarios that we've heard about are simply untrue. And science does not lie. It's true that you have to interpret results and there can be differences of opinion but essentially, relying on eye witness testimony is a bad mistake.

ROBBINS: I have a question for you because I think I heard this. Is it true that the shell casings as well were only 8 feet from the body...

KOBILINSKY: That's right. That's correct.

ROBBINS: ... or nine feet. So I found that -- I haven't heard that before and I heard you say that at this morning on New Day, and to me, that's also interesting because a lot of the witnesses said that there was a 30 feet distance...

BROWN: Right.

ROBBINS: ... when the office was shooting.

BROWN: Well even -- Darren Wilson had initially said that that was the...

KOBILINSKY: But remember, the officer is stationary. Michael Brown is 30 feet away...

BROWN: Oh that's true.

ROBBINS: OK.

(CROSSTALK) BROWN: We could carry on this discussion all day and I hope that we will, off air. Thank you both Larry Kobilinsky and Mel Robbins. We appreciate it.

And video from just moments ago of a small group of protesters who have gathered along the I-10 Freeway in Los Angeles. About a dozen people blocked the southbound lanes, just north of the city. The California Highway Patrol says, traffic has been stopped on the northbound site of the freeway as the precaution police are making arrest there as we see.

And a lot of people are putting the blame for the Ferguson fallout on one man, Prosecutor Robert Mcculloch. Did he handle the case correctly and should he have been in charge of the case in the first place? That's next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: People who don't like the grand jury's verdict in the Michael Brown case really don't lie the county prosecutor, still Bob McCulloch has been in his position, and elected position since 1991. Those who claim his pro-police point, it was family ties. McCulloch's father, brother, uncle, and cousin all served with the St. Luis P.D. And his father was shot to death by a black suspect. McCulloch declined to step aside in the Brown case and that's one of many decisions that many of his constituents regret.

Here is CNN's Ana Cabrera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: St. Luis County prosecutor by McCulloch under fire.

MICHAEL BROWN, SR., MICHAEL BROWN'S FATHER: We're still home, this is basically -- I feel like they've just (inaudible) him again.

CABRERA: Facing fresh criticism for his handling of the Michael Brown shooting case and his announcement of the grand jury decision after dark. The tension that have been building four hours erupting into chaos, causing some to question the timing.

JAMES KNOWLES, MAYOR FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Waiting for the announcement last night, I was wondering what the wisdom or back process was behind waiting till that hour. I don't know that it would have been any better. I think ultimately, those who wished to create disruption were bent on doing that.

CABRERA: Others left wondering about the grand jury process.

GLORIA BROWN-MARSHALL, PROFESSOR IN JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: He said that there was a problem with the evidence, conflicting testimony. That's up to a jury in a regular criminal proceeding to decide the credibility of the witnesses.

CABRERA: McCulloch admits this case was handled differently than others, including remaining neutral and calling every single witness to testify even Officer Darren Wilson.

ROBERT MCCULLOGH, ST. LOUIS CO. PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: In this case, we thought -- I thought much more important to bring in the actual witness.

CABRERA: McCulloch a defended himself in our interview on September 24th. And he hoped releasing testimony and evidence to the public, also unusual, would ultimately prove that his team was fair. And McCulloch didn't try a way from discussing how the media may have made his job harder.

MCCULLOGH: The most significant challenge encounted in this investigation has been the 24-hour news cycle, and its insatiable appetite for something, for anything to talk about.

CABRERA: But even as facts continue to come out, and people hear the complete story for the first time, many members of this community still lack of trust and confidence in a system that supposed to ensure justice for all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a whole bunch of young people feel like the system don't work for them. So, why should they obey a system that don't work for them? Why?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And they ask for the timing of Monday night's announced, by McCullogh's office sent us this statement.

"We coordinated with law enforcement, gave schools time to get their children home and in a safe place, gave businesses time to make a decision on their employees' safety. A media time to set up, prepared our statement and made the announcement."

A monstrous storm moving up the East Cost could cause big delays across the country. Avalanches of snow and could mean big delays but will it be quicker to drive from D.C. to New York or fly. Reporters are putting that to the test.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well bad weather and all, CNN reporters, Erin McPike versus Brian Todd battling the East Coast winter storm trying to get to New York City from D.C., one by air the other by land.

At stake, Newsroom pride of course. And if rumors are true, an extra Thanksgiving day helping of maple-crusted yams. All right (inaudible) talk about this Chad Myers from Atlanta and Brian Todd and we're hoping to hear from Erin McPikem, I believe she just landed and still on the plane as we speak.

Brian I'm going to start with you. So, how is it? How is navigating the wet (ph) stuff? Are you almost here?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, we're on I-95 near Philadelphia heading north toward New York City. It's just a nasty day here along the 95 quarter, you've got rain to the East of the highway, snow just to the West of the highway. The highway itself is actually the demarcation line between the rain systems and the snow systems, and it's just create some very nasty conditions here along the road. We can switch to our camera that looks at the front of the vehicle here, and you can get an idea of the traffic patterns and everything.

You know, this is, as we've always talked about, the most heavily traffic day of the year, at least along a lot of these major highways. Triple A estimates 41 million Americans are going to go somewhere by car today, about 90 percent of the 50 million people we're going 50 miles or more away from home are going to be going by car. And this system along the I-95 quarter is presenting some problems.

Now, we haven't heard reports of major accidents. That's good. And it seems like a lot of people have heeded the advice of traffic and police authorities to leave for their destinations early, but you can see the weather here causing some -- just some, you know, some slowing down, a little bit of back ups in some areas as people try to get to their destinations, Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Well, drive safely, hope you get here in one piece. Brian Todd, thank you and Erin McPike we're going to turn to you now because as we said you just landed, looks like you won the race technically but it wasn't the easiest flight, was it?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Pamela. And we were supposed to take off at 11:00, we didn't board until then because some of the planes that were getting into Reagan Airport were late. And that's what delayed us, then it started to snow so we had to go to a little bit of de-icing, but we ended up taking off around 11:45.

The pilot actually says prepare for a bumpier flight than usual, but it's actually going to be faster because of a tremendous tailwind. So we did have a pretty fast and bumpy flight, did just land. And it's a little bit noisy here because we are about to the de-plane in just about 45 minutes late, but not too bad, all things considered with some of the really longer delays going on around the country, Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Glad you made it. Erin McPike. Thank you.

So Chad, the question will well conditions begin to improve in the east?

MYERS: Tomorrow? Yes, certainly because they are going downhill now for sure. Especially after sunset, about 4:00 those roads, the Brian Todd road is, really going to be a mess.

Now 95 is much better than 81, don't get me wrong. 81 completely in the snow, 95 on that rain-now mix but there had been a number of recs (ph) on the Baltimore working in Parkway on I-95, even some crashes over down to Richmond are not even due to snow.

But when it's starts to get slick, because the temperatures are going to keep falling all night, that's where we're going to begin to see the slick conditions really affect those roadways already now three to four hour delays in some of the airports because it is snowing, it's windy, lots of cancellations and those cancellations reduced the amount of time you are delayed, but you may not have a plane, Pamela.

BROWN: It just seems like this always happens a day before Thanksgiving. Brian Todd, Erin McPike, Chad Myers, thank you very much and thank you for watching. Wolf start in just a minute

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)