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Ferguson Unrest; 12-Year-Old Boy Killed By Cleveland Police

Aired November 27, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are learning more about how the 28- year-old police officer got through the last three months.

Apparently, he moved house to house to house, including crashing at his attorney's place for a little while, frequenting spots where he could hide his face, dark places like movie theaters. Remember, it was back in mid-August when Wilson's name was revealed to the public as that Ferguson police officer who shot and killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown Jr.

Wilson's attorneys, they talked to my colleague Don Lemon about the moment Wilson realized the public knew who he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL BRUNTRAGER, ATTORNEY FOR DARREN WILSON: You know, when the news broke, one of the things that happened was some of the local media went to the house that they lived in. He literally, literally, had to leave that house within three hours. His front yard, he was cutting the grass when he found out. He had to leave the grass, literally, half-mowed. And he had to go into hiding.

GREG KLOEPPEL, ATTORNEY FOR DARREN WILSON: Being a police officer, you're aware of your surroundings. Officer Wilson now is very heightened of his surroundings. So if you want being like you're in prison, that may be one analogy, but he's very aware of his surroundings, even more so today than he was three months ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: His lawyers also say Darren Wilson knows his career in law enforcement is over, that he is close to leaving Ferguson's force, not a matter of if, but when.

As far as how he moves on, how his life in the Ferguson area today, let's go to Sara Sidner. She's been in the thick of this from before and middle to now, hopefully, the end.

Sara Sidner, tell me, are things quieter, calmer where you are today?

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are, they are. We're not outside the police department, where usually the protesters begin during the day.

But things usually get a little more crowded at nighttime. So we should make that clear, but, last night, the crowds nowhere near as large as they were over this past week. I do want to show you in the daylight what some of the destruction is here.

And, you know, there's a lot of talk by the protesters, and by the Brown family, that, you know, a lot of the message that they were trying to get out was lost, because when people see these images, when residents see what's happened to, for example, this car lot here in Dellwood, which is on West Florissant, just a little ways away from Ferguson, when they see the destruction to the local businesses, the mom-and-pop shops that have been looted and burned, really, that's all they can concentrate on, because their frustration is very high with that, because this community is already a struggling community, trying to revive itself, after, like the rest of America, a difficult 2008 and beyond, because of the financial crash.

And so there's a lot of frustration that the message that people were trying to get out was lost because of those people who decided to do criminal activity. Yes, there is an investigation going on to try to figure out exactly who's responsible for doing some of this. If you look on these cars, too, to give you an idea, that B.A. there means the bomb and arson units have come out to check out this area, to try to start their investigations.

We know that this will be happening throughout West Florissant and South Florissant, where much of the damage happened, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me just follow up, quickly, and lift the veil. I know you weren't planning on talking about this on TV, necessarily, but so many people, really, around the world are seeing Ferguson painted one way. And there was a really incredibly decent family who, you know, brought warm food to you all.

I think that just -- I think it speaks volumes to the people who live there, who love this town, and who didn't want this.

SIDNER: Absolutely. I'm really happy you brought that up. I wrote something on Facebook this morning just to, you know, my friends, to talk about the Rafik (ph) family. They're from Pakistan. They opened up a Subway very near to where the protests have originated, outside the police department.

They have lost about 60 percent of their business, but, you know, that's where we all go to eat, because it's the closest place and they have managed to stay open throughout all of this. And I was sitting, waiting for a live shot. It was snowing like crazy, and all of a sudden we got a knock on the door on our satellite truck, and it was Mr. and Mrs. Rafik. They had come to the door with a bag of hot food. They know I love Indian food. They brought it to me, sat it down, and we ate, all of us. Two, three of us ate.

And you know what? I have to tell you, that is really the spirit of Ferguson. I have to come to know and love the people that live there. And it is heartbreaking for me, personally, to see what has happened to so many of the people, residents that live in Ferguson. And I'm talking also about those who are peacefully protesting. They're going to have to deal with this as well -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I just thought it was worth mentioning, especially on this Thanksgiving. Sara Sidner, thank you, in Ferguson for me on this Thanksgiving.

You have Michael Brown's parents. Of course, they are still very much so reeling from the grand jury's decision not to indict officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of their 18-year-old son. Brown's mother broke down. She wept when she talked to HLN's Nancy Grace about the moment she saw her son's body sprawled in the middle of the street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Ma'am, you had just said that you wanted to break through that crime scene tape and go to him, and do what? What did you want?

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: I wanted my son off the ground. I wanted them to show him some respect, like we were showing them. That's my first boy laying on the ground. That hurt me to my heart to know that somebody hurt him that way and I couldn't help him.

GRACE: When they finally got him off the ground, where did he go, and where did you go?

MCSPADDEN: They told us they were taking him to a place called Berkeley. I didn't know what that was. I asked him, what is that? Once again, disrespect, telling us to calm down. We haven't did anything. We've stood here and waited four and a half hours for you to pick my son off the ground and I asked where are you taking his body, and then you tell me to calm down. Why? What?

I need to know where he's going to be. We didn't know where he was for two weeks.

GRACE: What was Berkeley?

MCSPADDEN: I still don't know right now to this day.

GRACE: You did not know where his body was for two weeks?

MCSPADDEN: After Berkeley, it was supposed to have been in the medical examiner. But the question is why didn't we get to see him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hmm. And as Michael Brown's parents describe their own grief, we know that Trayvon Martin's parents have reached out and Martin's father described the advice he gave to Michael Brown Sr. Here is his conversation with CNN's John Berman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We keep on saying, you know, none of us can understand what it must be like to go through what Michael Brown's parents are going through right now. You are someone who, I think, understands it all too well. It's got to be so difficult to have to grieve in such a public way.

TRACY MARTIN, FATHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: I think it's tough. First of all, I just would like to take my hats off -- my hat off to

the Brown family for standing up for their son and continuing to keep his name in the forefront and keep his name focused. It's tough to grieve in public. Especially as men, it's very tough for us to grieve in public.

And one thing I tried to relate to Mr. Brown is that there's no certain way to grieve and there's no time period on your grieving process. All of us grieve differently. But it's painful and it's going to be a long process.

BERMAN: We all saw Louis Head, the stepfather of Michael Brown, react the other night when the decision from the grand jury became public. And he was shouting, burn this down, burn the down, burn this down.

You say everyone reacts in different ways and grieves in different ways. I wonder what you made of that reaction.

MARTIN: That's just a natural reaction. That's -- that was emotions. That was raw emotions.

And for his reaction to be that, he's hurt. He's hurting. He's a hurting part of that family. And you -- at times, we expect emotions to run high. And, you know, I just pray for their family. I pray for him, I pray for the family, and I hope that we can help them get through this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: John Berman speaking with Trayvon Martin's father.

Just ahead here on CNN, there are serious questions about the man who helped perform the autopsy on Michael Brown. This is the autopsy asked by the family. Not only is he being called a fraud, but when CNN interviewed him, he got very fiery. You will hear that.

Also ahead, in Cleveland, we are now seeing the chilling video of police shooting a 12-year-old boy holding a toy gun. Hear why the 911 operator's warning to police is creating more questions than answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with me here on Thanksgiving.

Now to this one. This is out of Cleveland, Ohio, because now we know what police there did not know when they answered a call about a guy, this is their word, a guy in a park with a gun last Saturday afternoon.

What they didn't know is that this guy was a boy, Tamir Rice, 12 years of age. Even worse, they weren't told that the gun was probably fake. That was the words from the person who called it in, the person who saw this boy at the park, when they called it into 911.

Now new surveillance video shows us that it took about two seconds for an officer to shoot this 12-year-old after pulling up in a patrol car.

CNN's George Howell has the video and the details, but I just have to warn you, the video capturing the moments the boy was shot is graphic and may be very tough to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This video was recorded on a security camera in a Cleveland park and it shows Tamir Rice moving in and out of view. Keep in mind, these are the last few moments of this 12-year-old's life, a video his family wants you to see.

First, we see Rice pacing the sidewalk, brandishing what looks to be a weapon, at one point even taking a two-handed shooting stance. All the while, police say he was being watched.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman sitting in the gazebo is the gentleman that called into our dispatch center.

HOWELL: Here's that initial call to 911.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sitting in the park at West Boulevard, by the West Boulevard. And there's a guy holding a pistol. He's like pointing it at everybody.

HOWELL: In fact, the caller points out twice the gun is probably fake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy keeps pulling and his arm -- it's probably fake. He's scaring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of me.

HOWELL: Here is the clip that shows why the man called 911. The object that looks like a handgun we now know is really a toy pellet gun. And Rice seems to point at this person whose identity is blurred. Police say he's also seen here reaching for his cell phone and then having a conversation. Minutes later, Rice moves to the gazebo why he's now alone. This just minutes before police arrive. And now we know exactly what the dispatcher told the responding officers before they arrived. Notice how she never relays the information that it may be a fake gun.

DISPATCHER: Everybody (INAUDIBLE) priorities. Supposed to be a guy sitting on the swings pointing a gun at people.

HOWELL: A few seconds later, she describes Rice but again fails to pass along the words that the 911 caller used about the gun probably being fake.

DISPATCHER: In the park by the youth center, there's a black male sitting on the swings, wearing a camouflage hat, a gray jacket with black sleeves. He says he keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people.

HOWELL: What happens next happens very quickly. Officer Frank Garmback driving, and officer Timothy Loehmann in the passenger seat. EDWARD TOMBA, CLEVELAND DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF: The officers ordered him

to show his hands and to drop the weapon. And the young man pulled the weapon out and that's when the officer fired.

HOWELL: In the dispatcher's audio, you can hear the officer's grim call for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Radio, shots fired. Male down. Black male. Maybe 20. Black revolver. Send the EMS this way.

HOWELL: Even as they call for help, the officers still not understanding that they had shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a toy gun.

ED TOMBA, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF: This is not an effort to exonerate, it's not an effort to show the public that anybody did anything wrong. This is an obvious tragic event where a young member of our community lost their life. We've got two officers that were out there protecting the public that just had to, you know, do something that nobody wants to do.

HOWELL: George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with Mel Robbins, our CNN legal analyst.

And, Mel, we shouldn't have a dead 12-year-old, period. But here's my question, because the dispatch has been criticized for not relaying to police that, you know, it could have been a fake gun. Shouldn't police not assume it's fake when they roll up on the scene?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's a great question, absolutely.

And when you look at the comments online, there are a lot of people saying, hey, what do you expect a police officer to do in a situation where they're going on -- quote -- "a gun run"?

Let's talk about the failings here, Brooke, OK?

BALDWIN: Yes.

ROBBINS: So, first off, we have got the obvious, the fact that there was pertinent information, the fact that this caller who was in eye shot of the 12-year-old child, you know, that the gun was probably fake, that was not relayed. That's failure number one.

Failure number two, can you possibly explain to me how you can warn somebody three times when you are driving up at the suspect at a rate of speed, across the grass, with the windows up and the doors closed? Can you tell me how you do that three times, and you do it when the car is advancing that quickly from that far away? I'm not buying that.

Third, what about establishing a safe perimeter, instead of pulling up eight to 10 feet away from a child in a speeding police car? Also, why are you not -- you're delivering a warning coming out of the car with your guns drawn vs. your guns firing?

And, finally, why is it, as a trained police officer, you're assuming that the 12-year-old child that you just shot on a playground next to a youth center is a 20-year-old man, Brooke? There are so many questions, so many failures in this particular instance.

And I personally, in my mind, when I watched this, I was so incredibly upset, because this officer fires before he's even out of the car fully, Brooke. He comes out of that car firing, and there was no reason they had to do it this way.

BALDWIN: That's -- this is what I want to talk about. And so I'm hearing you tick through points one through four. What should a police officer, in this kind of situation, if he doesn't know if it's a fake or real gun -- we do see this child in this surveillance video pointing this gun at people in close range as they're passing by, before police, as you point out, roll up, speeding through that yard, incredibly close to him.

How should the officer have responded?

ROBBINS: Those people that -- fine. Pull up on the road away from the kid, jump out of the car, pull your guns, and yell in a manner where the kid can actually hear you vs. (INAUDIBLE) windows up.

Even if the officer had the door open, and was yelling...

BALDWIN: Mel, I'm sorry. We're pulling out because we're having issues with Skype. I apologize. But let me just promise you this. We're going to keep talking about this story out of Cleveland, because, as Mel is pointing out, it's not entirely adding up. Mel Robbins, thank you so much.

Let's move along.

Developing right now, this car loaded with explosives has been detonated in Afghanistan as a convoy carrying foreign workers was passing by. We will take you live to the Pentagon for more on that.

Plus, the man who helped perform Michael Brown's autopsy and became a media star is being called a fraud. And when CNN confronted him about his credentials, he got fiery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has. Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- excuse my language, but I have got (EXPLETIVE DELETED) e-mails to prove him and I going back and forth and the fact that he ignores me. He's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There is much more of that. Stay with me. You're watching CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: At least four children are among the wounded in a suicide car bomb attack on a convoy with foreign embassy cars today in Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan.

We know that the explosion killed five people and wounded 33. Also in Kabul, a trio of armed Taliban insurgents attacked the office an international nonprofit relief and development organization. Kabul police tell CNN that two of the attackers were killed.

Let's go to the Pentagon with more on this. Our correspondent, Barbara Starr, joining me on this Thanksgiving.

Barbara Starr, what more do we know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, one of the questions being asked now, why these types of targets, embassy vehicles, other organizations in Kabul? You know, is the Taliban looking for a new set of targets now that the military force is downsizing there?

In fact, by the end of the year, in just a few weeks, the U.S. is expected to only have only about 10,000 troops in Afghanistan, NATO troops pulling out, the combat mission, if you will, essentially over to large extent by the end of this year.

So what are the Taliban up to? These horrific attacks, many people will tell you, are part of the Taliban strategy to destabilize the country. They -- they're not going to get Afghanistan back under their control, as they had it so many years ago, but if they can destabilize the security situation, if they can make the Afghan people wonder and question whether their own government can protect them, that's the kind of destabilization where the Taliban thrives and where they do begin to take power back in remote rural areas.

So, there's a lot of concern about all of this. This latest attack today against this embassy vehicle convoy was just one of several. Just a few days ago, two U.S. troops were killed in an IED attack and six U.S. troops wounded in that attack. It was one of the biggest against U.S. forces in a very long time.

Another horrific attack at a sporting match in Afghanistan. A lot of concern about what might be coming between now and the end of the year.

BALDWIN: Let's hope not. Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

And speaking of our men and women who we are so grateful for today on this Thanksgiving serving our country today and yesterday and all the years to come, we just wanted to take a minute in between maybe your bites of Turkey. Let's pay tribute with some videos showing absolutely the best part about coming home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welborn gave her daughter the best present ever, mother and daughter reunited again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm overwhelmed right now. She just looked really shocked when I saw her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tap and say alakazam! Now, is this your card?

CHILD: Yes, it is.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here, baby.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joy, there are no words that can express my thanks for the sacrifices you have made for our family in the past year. Have fun tonight. I love you, miss you, and promise I will be home soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, we have got a special surprise for you. Fans, please welcome back Petty Officer Cook (ph), who has just returned from Afghanistan.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)