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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Aftermath of Ferguson Protests; Michael Brown's Parents Speak Out; What's Next for Darren Wilson?

Aired November 27, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown in for Ashleigh Banfield. Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We begin in Ferguson, Missouri, where so many people are spending this Thanksgiving Day still in shock.

Take a look. This is what's left of Prime Beauty Supply on Chambers Road, torched on Tuesday after the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the death of Michael Brown. And here's what remains of the Little Caesar's on West Florissant Avenue. Local reports say it was also destroyed by a tornado on Good Friday back in 2011.

Despite the devastation, many people still have an incredible determination to not be defeated.

Sara Sidner is live in Dellwood, that's near Ferguson.

Sara, I'm still not sure why these business owners have been victimized in all of this, but how are they doing? Are they planning to rebuild?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, there are some who are already reopened even though they have their windows boarded up and there are some who this happened to twice, back in August, and this past Monday, and at least one of those business owners says they cannot afford to reopen. And that is a really detriment to the entire community. That's what people worried about here.

I want to give you a look at what we're seeing in the daylight now. We did see some of these pictures overnight from helicopter views. We're actually in Dellwood on West Florissant, very close to Ferguson.

This was a Conoco gas station and you can see the damage that was created by the people who decided to do criminal activity instead of peacefully protest. Everything inside, you know, burned to a crisp. There's really nothing left. I mean, even the top of the building gone.

I can tell you, though, that this particular gas station from being here for a couple of months, wasn't open. And so that's -- the good news is that, you know, it wasn't open, nothing exploded, but certainly seeing some of this destruction. And this isn't all, there's a whole car lot just to my right where all of the cars are burned along the street. Lots of destruction. We've seen, yes. But we should be clear that

it's not the entire city of Ferguson that's been burned down. It's mainly two thoroughfares, West Florissant and South Florissant. South Florissant is where the police department is. West Florissant is where the initial protests happened back in August. This blowing up again there. A community that has been devastated once and now dealing with it again.

I do want to talk to you about the mayor. We sat down and talked to him yesterday and we had a nice long conversation about what he's going to do in this town and about his concerns about how this was handled by authorities. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: I was assured and our community was assured that if it was getting out of control, if the National Guard was needed. At that point, we're beyond antagonizing, you know, the -- the destructions are already under way. There is no reason not to deploy them. I have no idea why they weren't deployed. That's frustrating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So there you go. I mean he put some of the blame on the way and the lag time in the response from the National Guard, but if you take a look at the destruction, I mean he did talk to me about who is ultimately to blame and that is the people that decided to go out and ruin this community when they could have just protested peacefully -- Pam.

BROWN: Absolutely. Sara Sidner, thank you so much for that.

And this is the first Thanksgiving Michael Brown's parents will spend without him. Sunny Hostin sat down with them to talk about their son and their reaction to the grand jury's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I want to first start by saying, I'm so sorry that your son was taken from you, and I think there are a lot of people that feel the same way. And I'd like you, Lesley, if you can, to tell us about your son, the son you know.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: The son I know, Mike-Mike, that's what I called him. Mike-Mike was -- he was a big guy. He was so humble and soft spoken, and he loved animals, he loved being a big brother, and loved being a grandson. He loved his grandmother. He was the first grandchild. He was our first son. So he was special in many ways.

HOSTIN: Can you tell me about your son, the son you know?

MICHAEL BROWN SR, FATHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: Funny, silly, make you laugh. Real good with his hands. Fix almost anything. Like she said, Lesley said, loved his siblings. He loved his grandparents. He loved -- just do different things to show girls, you know, he was just being a teenager. You know, just living life.

HOSTIN: Now when you got to the crime scene and you found this out, what were your immediate thoughts?

MCSPADDEN: Why? Why you do that? Anybody that knew him, why? No. Mike-Mike, no. Don't believe it. He's too sweet.

HOSTIN: Well, let's talk about that because so many people in America have seen this surveillance video in the convenience store and people are saying your son was a punk, was a thug, your son was aggressive, your son was violent, so he must have been aggressive with Officer Wilson. What do you say to that?

MCSPADDEN: I say that you cannot judge him off of an 18-second video and we've known him for 18 years. We know better. I say no, you're wrong, and you cannot look at one image of a person and perceive who they are in a whole. Because if that's the case, let's look at the offense side with Officer Darren Wilson.

HOSTIN: So do you believe that when Officer Wilson first approached your son and told him to move out of the roadway, that your son's first response was, "F what you say"?

M. BROWN: No.

MCSPADDEN: Nope.

HOSTIN: Do you think that's even possible?

MCSPADDEN: Nope.

M. BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think it's even possible Officer Wilson is saying that your son reached into the car and tried to grab his gun?

M. BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think it's possible that your son told him, you are too much of a P word to shoot me?

M. BROWN: No.

MCSPADDEN: I don't even believe any of those words were exchanged at all.

HOSTIN: And why not?

MCSPADDEN: Why? You know why? Because my sister had just rolled up this street and rolled past my son as he was coming down. And just that quick, not even five minutes went by, before someone was running to my mother's house, saying Mike-Mike is laying up, you know, up there in the middle of the street dead. Interaction or, you know, it lasts a little longer than that.

HOSTIN: Officer Wilson said that he had a clear conscience about what happened that day. If he had to do it again he would. What's your response to that?

M. BROWN: He's a murderer. That's what that tells me.

HOSTIN: What does that tell you, Lesley?

MCSPADDEN: I hope the Lord have mercy on his soul.

HOSTIN: You're saying --

M. BROWN: He's a murderer. The reason I say he's a murderer because if he was conscious of what he was doing, that means he understood his actions. He understood exactly what he was doing. You know, he didn't have a second thought, a push back thought, nothing. You -- he was determined to kill someone, that's how I look at it. Even if it wasn't my son, even if it was Dorian, he was going to kill someone at that point.

HOSTIN: He also said, Officer Wilson, that had your son been white, it would have happened exactly the same way.

M. BROWN: Not true. I don't believe it.

HOSTIN: You don't believe that?

M. BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Why not?

M. BROWN: I think that the interaction would have been a whole lot differently. Probably would have rode right past and kept going. Probably would have blew his horn or waved out the window.

HOSTIN: And when you heard there wasn't going to be an indictment in this case, give me your immediate reaction?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So how will Lesley McSpadden respond to that question and what she has to say about her husband being blamed for sparking the violence in Ferguson that ended with several businesses being burned down? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: For Michael Brown's mother the news of the grand jury decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson brought her back to the pain she felt on August 9th when her son lost his life.

Here's part two of Sunny Hostin's interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOSTIN: When you heard there wasn't going to be an indictment in this case give me your immediate reaction.

MCSPADDEN: It was like I got a phone call all over again about what had happened to my son. That's how I felt. I felt just as helpless as I felt in the beginning. And I wanted to address Ferguson. And I did.

HOSTIN: And let's talk about that because we've all seen the video of you going to where the protesters were in front of the Ferguson Police Department and you were on a car and you're speaking to the people. Why did you feel the need to do that?

MCSPADDEN: I felt the need to do that because, one, they never addressed us, and two, you heard our pleas and our cries for everything to go the way it should be, and then third of all, we heard this and it was just like -- like I had been shot, like you shooting me now. Just no respect, no sympathy, nothing.

And so my emotions were raging and I had to go off and I just let them know, you just really don't care, do you? Why don't you care? This could be your child, this could be anybody's child.

HOSTIN: Well, when you were on the car, your husband, you've been married since May, got up on the car and said, burn the B down, and CNN and other outlets have been replaying that and some are saying that he single handedly started the rioting and the fires.

What do you say to that?

MCSPADDEN: I say that that's impossible. These things have been going on since August 9th when it first happened. His emotions were taking over him just like mine. He just spoke out of anger. It's one thing to speak and it's a different thing to act. He did not act. He just spoke out of anger.

I'm a grieving mother. That's my husband. He's been around Michael at least four years, so he's grown to love him, not as much as I do, but he's grown to love him like he loves his own children, so when you're that hurt and the system has did you this wrong, you may say some things as well. We've all spoke out of anger before.

HOSTIN: What do you say to those people that did loot and riot in your son's name?

MCSPADDEN: I say that they didn't do it in my son's name because that's not what we are about. Some people were out there angry for their own reasons. There's lots of people that have come to St. Louis from everywhere that had went through something similar to this and we didn't know because we had never went through it. Now I can relate to those people and the pain that they feel.

HOSTIN: Well, Mr. Brown, you've done a PSA asking for peace, peaceful protests. What do you say to those that claim that they're looting and rioting in your son's name?

M. BROWN: Well, the ones that's looting and rioting, they're doing it on their own agenda. We have nothing to do with that. The ones that's protesting peacefully, you know, please keep protesting. Peacefully.

Back to what I said at first, I'm -- I'm not angry at them, but that's not -- they're not showing respect to my son by doing it that way.

HOSTIN: You said you want something to change, something to happen. What do you see now that there's no indictment? What do you think justice can be for you now?

M. BROWN: Another trial. A federal trial. I have faith in a different decision.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Sunny, Michael and Lesley have been encouraging supporters around the country to help them with the proposed Michael Brown Law, which is to have video body cameras on every police officer in every city in America so we can hopefully avoid this happening over in the manner that it happened because if you got video body cameras it will be transparent.

HOSTIN: I want to give you the opportunity to send a message to Darren Wilson because he will be watching.

M. BROWN: Just why? Just why? That's all. Why?

HOSTIN: Why what?

M. BROWN: Why did you wake up with an edge on your shoulder like that and have to interact with our son and just -- and do him like that, you know? That was overkill.

HOSTIN: This is going to be your first holiday without your son. What do you plan to do tomorrow? It's Thanksgiving.

M. BROWN: Just have to wait until tomorrow. Right now we both miss him. Other family members miss him. It's going to be a tough one. It's going to be a tough one. And this is not the only holiday that's coming up, so it's really going to be tough for us.

HOSTIN: Thank you so much.

M. BROWN: Thank you for having us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The man who shot Michael Brown says he has remorse for the shooting, but says he'd do it again if confronted with a similar situation.

So what's next for Officer Darren Wilson? Our LEGAL VIEW panel weighs in, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: He wasn't indicted by the grand jury but Officer Darren Wilson's problems are far from over. Much like George Zimmerman and Casey Anthony have done he's spending his days in hiding and his attorney says leaving the Ferguson Police Department is not a question of if, but when. And there's still a federal investigation under way.

So for the LEGAL VIEW here I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

Joey, let's start with you. What do you think the future holds for someone like Darren Wilson? Because this is someone who, while he's not -- he hasn't been indicted there's still two other investigations under way. He could still face a wrongful death lawsuit by the Brown family. What are the options for him?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, well, the chapters have not been fully written, Pam, and the reason for that of course is we saw the grand jury and we saw their action, of the grand jury, but there's the federal investigation and there's two federal investigations under way remember.

One federal investigation involving him, did he violate the civil rights of Michael Brown by his actions and then the second layer of that, Pam, really concerns the police department itself as far as its past practices, what they're doing, the history, if any, of any type of discriminatory conduct.

So they'll look at that. And then the other layer to this, Pam, is the civil litigation involving wrongful death, that is the family of Michael Brown going after this officer as well as the department, saying that Darren Wilson acted negligently and inappropriately in causing the death of Michael Brown.

And so all of that needs to play out before, in fact, we know the future of Darren Wilson. Final point is this. There is a very practical reason why he will never be in a police uniform again and that practical reason concerns his safety in addition to the safety of his fellow officers. There are a variety of people out there who do not have any faith in the system, nor any faith in this indictment and certainly there's the concern that he would not be safe on the street in the event that he put that uniform on.

BROWN: Even at another police department?

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BROWN: No matter where he goes.

Mel, I'm going to turn to you, though, because hypothetically, you know, we know that there are these other investigations under way, but hypothetically if it's found that the shooting was, in fact, justified, is this fair for him? He's got to change his entire, you know, life course and change everything around, is this fair?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I do think it's fair for the legal process to play out and my good friend Joey did an excellent job of summing up the two different federal investigations that are going on and also talking about the civil.

Now let's keep in mind that the fact that there was no indictment actually will not preclude there being a successful civil lawsuit because the -- what you have to prove is very different. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt. They would simply have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the shooting was unjustified, that the officer acted negligently, and if they do that, there will be monetary damages, Pam, and that is fair.

And by the way, I also think they have a very legitimate claim under emotional distress based on how the police department disparaged Michael Brown in the days around or after the shooting and also based on the fact that they left his body out there for four hours. They wouldn't let his mother cross the police tape. They didn't tell her where his body was for two weeks.

There was an extraordinary lack of respect for the family and I do think that they have a very legitimate and powerful claim in that regard.

BROWN: And just to recap the civil rights investigation, that federal investigation, they must prove that the officer used unreasonable force, willfully, knowingly, violating his rights protected under the Constitution, but I think it's important to make this point clear, Joey, that sex, race, those factors don't have to necessarily be proven in this case.

JACKSON: You know, not necessarily, Pam, but what happens is when you're talking about a civil rights claim and you're talking about the feds going after you in that regard, you have to show ill will. You have to show motive. You have to show malice on the part of Darren Wilson as it relates to his pursuing Michael Brown, and that's why many people are saying that you would have to establish some type of racial animus because how else do you show it.

BROWN: Right.

JACKSON: Unless you establish that. And it's a very high bar, particularly given what the grand jury did in this particular case.

BROWN: All right. Fair point. Thank you so much, Mel Robbins, Joey Jackson. Be sure to stick around. I want to get your thoughts on our next story.

A 12-year-old with a toy gun shot and killed by cops. A 911 caller said the gun was probably a fake. So why didn't that detail get passed on to the police?

Our LEGAL VIEW up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)