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Black Friday in Ferguson; Thanksgiving Shopping and Good Deals; Consumers Activity Goes Up This Holiday Season; Snow in New England; Unfair Presentation of Evidence to Grand Jury

Aired November 28, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Now, this is what it looked like at a Target store not too far away from this Wal-Mart. Protesters marching and chanting "Hands up, don't shoot." Demonstration like this one, protesting the grand jury's decision are expected nationwide today. Jason Carroll is in Ferguson this morning to tell us more. Good morning, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. And just a few moments ago right here at this Wal-Mart, here in Ferguson we noticed a few protesters showing up right in front of the Wal-Mart near the front entrance just about a half dozen or so. They were peaceful and just a few moments ago, it seemed as if maybe the weather got the better of them. It's pretty chilly out here and they may have decided to leave. This Wal-Mart not opening until 8:00 this morning. Unusual for a Wal-Mart on Black Friday to open that late, but given what happened out here last night, there were several demonstrators at Wal-Mart showing up, including this one.

The National Guard showing up, blocking off the entrance, blocking the parking lot, telling those people that the Wal-Mart would not open until 8:00 this morning. And it wasn't just Wal-Mart's, it was also at a Target, a Target located in Brentwood just about a half hour from Ferguson, another St. Louis suburb. Protesters, demonstrators showing up there dozens of them shouting "Hands up, don't shoot" and "Shut it down for Michael Brown."

Calls for boycotts of Black Friday have been spreading throughout social media, on Twitter and on Facebook. Demonstrators and organizers basically saying that they've heard their voices on the street but they also want to make sure that there's an economic impact out here as well. In terms of speaking to small business owners throughout the week, Carol, they already feel as though there's been an economic impact, at least here in Ferguson. Some small businesses thinking that they may not ever be able to reopen. Carol?

COSTELLO: That would be a shame. Jason Carroll reporting live from Ferguson this morning.

But some malls are crowded and some stores are crowded. And for those of you who decide to brave the crowds, well, good luck, because the frenzy is in full swing. From coast to coast and across the pond it is sheer madness at some malls and at some stores. Retailers hope long lines outside will turn into long lines at the cash register. Some stores have already been open 8, 12, even 24 hours with shoppers battling each other for bargains, even overseas in London. Yes, it's a tradition now in London for Black Friday, something I don't quite understand but there you have it. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is at Newport Center in New Jersey City, New Jersey. Good morning, Deb.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Carol. Well, you can see a number of shoppers here, but it's not really a frenzy so much as it is a "fra" because we're really waiting for the buildup. We did speak to one of the managers here who said that between 9:00 and 12:00 last night were really the peak hours, that's when the most people came out. They left at about 12:00, some of the smaller stores decided to stay open. For some it paid off, they got a lot more sales, others it didn't, they just ended up paying their employees time and a half without many sales.

What we're noticing is that the large anchor stores, are the ones that are having the 60, the 50 percent off. It's the smaller stores less so, especially places like lingerie shops. Actually, they're not having the big discounts because I guess they're counting on the fact that the men are going to be buying really nice gifts for their women so you're going to have to pay full price for that. However, here it is calm, but elsewhere across the nation not so much, Carol.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Overnight, the hunt for bargains across the nation becoming a contact sport. Police prying these shoppers off the floor at this Wal-Mart in Houston, Texas, refusing to let go of a discounted TV. One police officer even grabbing this shopper by the face and throwing him to the ground. Tempers flare at this Wal-Mart in Michigan City, Indiana, with shoppers clamoring for a bargain on Sony speakers. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and in Los Angeles, police were called to another Wal-Mart after a brawl broke out over a $5 Barbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was obviously a fight between a guy and a girl over a Barbie doll. And the girl socked the guy in the face just to get the Barbie.

FEYERICK: The stampede through the front doors, a welcome sight for retailers hoping to cash in on the holiday frenzy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wouldn't be doing this if the demand was not there.

FEYERICK: The National Retail Federation projected this holiday season spending will total nearly $617 billion, growing 4.1 percent over last year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I rushed over here to be one of the first ones to just get everything that I need and then go home.

FEYERICK: Some shoppers camping outside for days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bring my TV, my generator, my little tent and chairs, I let everybody have a good time.

FEYERICK: Strumming the guitar to pass the time. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got in my car and drove like ...

FEYERICK: All in an effort to nab great deals like this flat screen TV marked down $400.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's one more 55 inch.

FEYERICK: A convenient alternative to all the mayhem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lady in the green jacket is fighting.

FEYERICK: Cyber Monday when retailers are set to offer deep discounts online so you can avoid crushing crowds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey! Hey!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: And, Carol, I'm joined here by the Thomas family. Now, I want to let you know, we stopped them about ten minutes ago, told them to be here for the top of the hour. Within that time, Taisha (ph) actually was able to get a pocketbook, a gorgeous pocketbook and not only that but it was on sale so how much money did you save?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say $150, $160.

FEYERICK: And you didn't even realize they were having such a big sale?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's when we walked away and then we stopped by in the store and she said an additional 25 percent off.

FEYERICK: So you completely scored.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

FEYERICK: You bought a lot of other stuff, you've got linens, pillows, you've also got some gifts. These are deep fryers, are these gifts for people for Christmas?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they are all a gift. They was on sale after the rebate, mail and rebate, it comes up to $9.99.

FEYERICK: So that ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the luggage is great too, because the luggage was on sale, too.

FEYERICK: And how much was the luggage then, because I see a lot of people carrying suitcases.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $160.

FEYERICK: And now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On sale for $39.99. FEYERICK: OK. And you - when we saw you're carrying all this stuff.

So, you kind of got the short end of the stick because I think you would probably better be home watching maybe a football game or two?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but I'm here with the family, got to love them. So I'm going to carry anything they need me to carry.

FEYERICK: Solidarity. And what time - you're going to hit even one more mall, correct? So, what do you hope to find there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another - another bag.

FEYERICK: OK, because you can't have too many bags.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.

FEYERICK: All right. All right. Well, we wish you luck and we wish you a very happy holiday. Thank you so much for joining us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Thank you, everybody. So there are a lot of people who came, they were very strategic, Carol, they know exactly what they were going to buy, they went to the stores, they got the discounts and some really deep discounts. As you heard, you know, something that's $30 now down to about $10. So the folks here enjoying the day. The mall says they expect to see a surge but I think they have their fingers crossed about noon, 1:00. Carol?

COSTELLO: I just think it's funny that every man you interview looks like he's in hell and all the women are happy.

FEYERICK: Oh yes, because he is.

(LAUGHTER)

FEYERICK: Because he is. He is. You know, the funny thing is, Carol, you know, I vowed I would not spend any money so I've now saved $40 and spent $60. So somewhere in there there's, like -- it zeros out, I think. I'm not sure.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: We'll just pretend it does. Deborah Feyerick, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

It will take more than a packed store today to make retailers feel better about their bottom line. They need customers to keep their wallets open for a long period of time. And a new CNN/ORC poll finds that might happen. For the first time since 2007 more Americans say things are actually going well in this country. 52 percent in the latest poll. Compare that to last November where only 41 percent had a favorable view of how things were going. That's a pretty good number. Retailers hope that number helps theirs bottom line as shoppers packed the stores this weekend. Alison Kosik joins me now. And it's positive, right?

So far so good?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and you know, that if you feel good, if you're confident you're going to shop more. And that's what retailers are really hoping for. You know, in that poll that you mentioned, that CNN/ORC poll, we actually did ask the respondents about -- 1,045 respondents, by the way, specifically about how they felt about the economy and here's what they said. There's actually a lot of improvement there. 32 percent said yes, we are feeling that things are starting to recover. 41 percent feel that the economy is stabilized and 26 percent say the economy is getting worse, but that's an improvement from last year around this time where it was 40 percent.

So, you know, if we feel good, we're going to get out and shop. Retailers are sort of banking on that. And a few other things in shoppers' favor as well. Gas prices are lower, so it makes us feel like we have a lot more money to spend, and we do. There's also, as you saw in Deb's piece, a lot of heavy discounting going on. Now, who can pass up a deal? We have good weather this year. No polar vortex. And also not the threat of a federal government shutdown. That's not hanging over our heads as well as we had last year.

COSTELLO: OK, so tell us about some hot ticket items because I know those ladies in the mall bought a lot of luggage, but it doesn't seem to be a very exciting Christmas gift, frankly. Sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

KOSIK: You want the diamonds and the bracelets.

COSTELLO: Yeah.

KOSIK: I know. You and me both. Actually, there's some Air Jordans, the six retros are selling out like hot cakes. I hear that shoe right there sold out in five minutes at Dick's. Don't quote me on that, but that thing is selling really, really fast. GoPros are certainly hot seller this year. Beatz head phones are a big want this year as well. Tablets, even though tablets haven't been selling well this year I'm hearing that Best Buy and Target are offering either $100 off or a $100 gift card if you buy a tablet there. Also TVs. Not necessarily big sellers, but I can hear you can get a pretty good discount around this time of year.

COSTELLO: Yes, you can. Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

And while the country is dealing with Thanksgiving Day leftovers, New Englanders have some snow to contend with. Even more snow. An interstate bridge between Buffalo and Niagara Falls shut down for several hours after dozens of vehicles were caught in a huge pileup caused by slick conditions. All across New England, crews are out trying to restore power to thousands of customers who are left in the dark on Thanksgiving Day. That has to be the worst. Jennifer Gray is at the CNN weather center in Atlanta. Good morning. JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning to you, Carol. Just

awful. Thanksgiving without power and then that pileup. We are going to see things clear out, though, in the northeast. We are looking at a little bit of snow around the Great Lakes as we go through the next couple of days but nothing too major. Cold air remains in place for the time being, but all of that is going to change. We are going to get warmer air in place over the next couple of days across the east.

Not the case in the Midwest and the northern plains. It's going to stay very cold. Temperatures right now, 14 in Minneapolis, 24 in Chicago, you are not going to warm up all that much. We have 35 degrees in Chicago. Cool across New York City as well. You'll hover just above freezing. So, chilly for you. 40 in D.C., 49 in Atlanta and a nice warmup for the south, though, temperatures will be close to 70 in Atlanta by Monday. Close to 60 in New York City by Monday and temperatures even get into the mid-70s during the weekend in Dallas. The cold temperatures, though, do stay in place across the Midwest and the Northern Plains.

I want to touch on the west. We do have some winter storm warnings in place and watches. Now, places like Butte, Spokane, even Jackson Hole seeing some of those advisories out there. We are going to see big- time rain push into northern California, desperately needed. It's coming your way. We could see as much as four to six inches in places. We're also looking at snow across the Pacific Northwest in some of those higher elevation, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Jennifer Gray, thanks so much.

Still to come in the "NEWSROOM" prosecutors in Ferguson making Michael Brown's marijuana use a critical part of the evidence presented to the grand jury. Was that proper? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some time stories for you. A 50 minutes past the police bomb squad in Austin Texas is on high alert today after a tense situation earlier this morning. Shortly after 2:00 a.m., police shot and killed a gunman who had opened fire on police headquarters and two other downtown buildings, but when investigators moved in, they discovered a suspected bomb in the man's vehicle. That's when they called the bomb squad in. No word yet if any explosives were actually found.

Pope Francis in Turkey today for a three-day visit with the country's political and religious leaders. The pope will spend the weekend in Istanbul. In an appearance with the Turkish president, he lamented the persecution of Christians and other religious minorities in Syria and in Iraq. The last papal visit to the Islamic country was Pope Benedict's in 2006.

The Twitter feed belonging to soccer legend Pele says he's doing fine after being hospitalized in Brazil with a urinary tract infection. Earlier the hospital had said Pele was unstable and in intensive care but later clarified that Pele was actually receiving temporary kidney dialysis. Pele recently underwent surgery for kidney stones. There were few protests in Ferguson, overnight. In fact, you could

say it was calm but that doesn't mean healed. It was a difficult Thanksgiving for the Michael Brown family. A group called Ferguson Action posted this picture of the Browns' first holiday without their son. It was part of the campaign to highlight families who've lost loved ones at the hands of police.

And in the days following the grand jury announcement, we're learning more about how jurors arrived at their decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. Example, Brown's use of marijuana. Of course, there is absolutely no evidence that Brown's use of the drug caused him to become overly aggressive, but prosecutors put it out there any way. Keep in mind, a grand jury is not a trial. There is no cross- examination so let's talk about that. Joey Jackson is an HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Mel Robbins is a CNN commentator and legal analyst. Welcome to both of you.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So, Joey, I'll just put it to you. Was this proper what the prosecutors did?

JACKSON: No. OK, so here's how it works. The biggest problem that I have is that a grand jury proceeding is a wonderful forum, Carol, in which to acquire evidence, to acquire information, and to get the information out there. It is a particularly poor forum to challenge that information, to scrutinize that information, and to give that information the weight and value it needs. That's where Mel Robbins comes in and people like me come in to cross-examine so that we can get at the heart of the matter. Now, here's the issue. The issue is, is it absolutely important for the grand jurors to have been made aware of even marijuana use? You could argue sure, absolutely, make them aware of his marijuana use. But if you're going to do that, you better explain the relevance that it has here. Meaning did it cause him to become more aggressive? Did it cause him to be less aggress? Did it cause him to act out? Did it cause him to become mellow?

So in the event you're going to put evidence and information out there, Carol, you have to give it some context. And unfortunately the context it was given here without the reliability that it deserved and the information and explanation it deserved was to make suggestions that were less than proper and that's my issue with that.

COSTELLO: OK, well, let's talk about these suggestions that they made because, according to the transcript, prosecutors said Brown talked with a construction worker about waxing. I know you don't know what waxing is, because I didn't either. Waxing is ingesting a more potent form of pot. So you have to not smoke in a cigarette, I guess you'd have to put in like this other form, vaporized form and smoke it and it gives you a better high. But there's absolutely no evidence Brown actually did that.

So, OK, I'm going to read you a bit of testimony so you further understand. This is a bit of testimony from the grand jury transcript prosecutor. "Now, in this particular case when you tested the blood and you got 12 nanograms per millimeter for the Delta 9 THC, do you consider that a high dose?" Witness: That's what the witness told the grand jurors: "Well, you have to put things in perspective. This was a very large individual, I think he was about 300 pounds. So for the concentration of 12 nanograms in a large person, that shows it was a large dose. In a small person, say like 100 pounds, to get to that 12 nanograms wouldn't take a lot. A single joint could easily do that. But when you talk about a larger body mass, just like drinking alcohol, larger persons can drink more alcohol because they have the receptacle to hold it." I know that's very convoluted, so I'm going to ask Mel and Joey to parse that. But it sounds to me like, Mel, Michael Brown didn't smoke very - didn't have very much pot in his system at all.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, and I think what Joey is saying is that, look, the reason why people feel that this is so unfair is because clearly the prosecutor made a decision that he didn't feel there was enough evidence to go forward and he got backed into going to the grand jury so he put on a case that was basically like "You guys want a grand jury? Fine, here you go. Take everything." And the truth is, if he'd wanted to indict the officer he never would have even put this before the grand jury because he's not required to. And what Joey keeps saying is he wants people to understand that if this had gone to trial and if, for example, Joey or myself were the defense attorney, you'd be going -- or a prosecutor, you'd be jumping up and down in court basically tearing this apart talking about the fact that this isn't even relevant because you have not proven that the stuff in his system caused any -- had anything to do with anything.

COSTELLO: Yeah, because, Joey, it wasn't even clear to me that he was actually high when he died.

JACKSON: Right. And therein lies the problem. And then when you put -- when Dr. Baden who they asked for came in and testifies, the prosecutor says "Well, you're not a toxicologist, right? You're not a pharmacologist? You don't study drugs or anything like that?" In order to belittle the credibility of Dr. Baden who suggested that there were very low portions of any type of marijuana in his system and it would haven't made a difference anyway. And so, therein lies the issue. And so, if you're going to put evidence and information out there, there has to be some connection that it's relevant. That it caused a behavioral change in order for the grand jury to get it and digest it. And furthermore, Carol, when you have the medical examiner testifying and you ask a question like "Did you go through the pockets of Michael Brown" and the medical examiner says "As a matter of fact I did. I didn't take any photographs because my battery died and you know what, I didn't take any measurements because it wasn't relevant but I went through his pockets and what did I find? I found marijuana." In addition to a number of other things that the medical examiner said.

But it just calls into question the notion that this forum, again, is not a forum where evidence and information is challenged. And it's so critical, Carol. And, you know, look, grand juries do what they do. You know, by all accounts I respect what police do, they have a very difficult job, my dad was a police, I went on ride-alongs as a prosecutor. I get that. But what I'm just suggesting is that you have to challenge and scrutinize information. And when you don't give it the scrutiny, there are misconceptions that come about that you better believe in a trial will be clarified and clarified very well because I want you to understand perfectly the effects that things have when they're put out there.

COSTELLO: And just the last word about this because I think -- I think the reason that prosecutors felt they needed to do this, Mel, and you can disagree with me if you want, was it's still hard for me to understand why Michael Brown was so aggressive toward that police officer. I mean right from the get go. So perhaps prosecutors were running this by the grand jury to kind of, like, intimate like maybe the marijuana made him aggressive. But we don't know.

ROBBINS: I don't think they were running anything by the grand jury in order to get them to confirm. I believe that McCulloch never wanted to prosecute this case, that he made a decision based on witness testimony and the evidence at the scene, that he'd never be able to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt and that he grudgingly put it before the grand jury. I don't disagree with what the grand jury actually returned in terms of the decision not to indict. I profoundly disagree with the way in which McCulloch handled this from the get-go.

Because I don't think that the public was served, that the Brown family was served, or that this officer was served because nobody trusts what happened, even though when you review the record it's pretty clear to me as a trial lawyer or a former criminal defense attorney that there wasn't the evidence for a conviction for sure and there probably wasn't the evidence for probable cause, either. But because of how this was conducted, we're all left feeling like, wow, this is screwed up how this went down. And it doesn't feel right. That is a human perspective on my part. When I get real legal I can say, hey, wait a minute, the evidence says a certain thing. But in my gut I feel like the family in particular was completely disrespected through this entire thing.

JACKSON: In ten seconds Carol, I know you have to go, but ...

COSTELLO: Joey.

JACKSON: Absolutely. I think ten seconds - we have to go but here's the reality. Police should not be investigating police. It's a problem. They work with them, they respect each other. Prosecutors should not be prosecuting police who work with that police department day in day out. We rely upon what you do, we need you now, we need you for the future. It's the inappropriate form to happen. And if anything should happen in the future in terms of reform, we should be analyzing and looking at, right, whether it makes sense for the police to conduct all the investigation and then make sense out of it. And then the prosecutor who works with you every day to go ahead and proceed with the charges. It leads a level of distrust.

ROBBINS: You know, quickly, Joe's right?

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there, I do, I've got to live it there, but it's a great conversation and I'm sure you guys we'll be talking about this a lot in the next several days. Joey Jackson, Mel Robbins, thanks so much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the "NEWSROOM." Police now on the hunt for a missing 6'3", 273 pound college football player who has not been seen in days. We'll talk about that next.

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