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Vandalized Bakery Gets $250,000 in Donations; Did Pot Make Michael Brown Overly Aggressive; Questions Raised After Boy, 12, Shot in Cleveland; Shoppers Hunt for Black Friday Sales

Aired November 28, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

How about a little positive news out of Ferguson, Missouri. We have folks there in that community. The thousands of total strangers across this country helping this owner of this bakery rebuild. She is Natalie DuBose and it's called Natalie's Cakes and More. It was one of several businesses vandalized during Monday night's protests. But despite smashed windows and a vandalized store, Natalie had holiday orders to fill. It's Thanksgiving. You know, think about it, people like to eat. So she kept on baking. And she set up this go fund me site. She wanted to raise -- she was hoping to raise $20,000.

Well, guess what? You see the number on your screen here. She now has some $250,000. And I have a feeling it's still coming in. Natalie DuBose joins me now from Ferguson, Missouri.

Natalie, welcome.

NATALIE DUBOSE, OWNER, NATALIE'S CAKES & MORE: Thank you. How are you?

BALDWIN: I love this story. But can we just set it up with explaining to me, first, the tough part about it. Your store was vandalized. Where were you Monday night when this was all happening?

NATALIE: I was actually at home. I received a call from a neighbor that received my number, took my number off the store of my door and told me my building had been vandalized. The window was busted out with a chair thrown in it from the next door law office.

BALDWIN: Did you heart just drop?

DUBOSE: Absolutely. Because I didn't know how bad it was. And as I was walking up to it and seeing the glass all over the ground on the outside, you know, tears just started to come down because I had had several interviews with different media on the radio, and I was pretty much begging and pleading that my building would not get destroyed. As I said so many times, this was my only source of income. I even had some protesters come in to my shop and I begged that they would just spare me because that was the only source of income to take care of my two children.

BALDWIN: Wow. Wow. So you begged ahead of time to be spared and you weren't. Your store was vandalized. So you set up this Go Fund Me site, you wanted to raise 20,000. That's a lot of money. Did you ever think in a million wears that the money would pour in the way it has?

DUBOSE: Well, to be honest, I didn't set the site up. I had received a call from a lady by the name of Christine in New Orleans and from David Swingle in Florida and told me they wanted to donate to help me repair the shop and to get -- you know, to keep the business going and they received the information that they needed to get the go funding site, set up. And one thing led to another. I don't even -- I'm not on there often. I'm on there enough to say thank you. But I'm just so grateful to all of the people that contributed to the fund. I had no idea -- I didn't even know the initial amount that Chris had put on the site, and before I knew, it was up into the hundreds. And I'm just truly, truly grateful.

BALDWIN: Talk about being blessed and grateful on this Thanksgiving Day after. So here you have $250,000, subtract the 20 that was initially the target, you have an extra $230 now. Have you been in touch with other business owners, will you be sharing any of that?

DUBOSE: Actually, several of the business owners in the area have started a Go Fund Me site as well. And from the response that I've heard is they are actually receiving donations as well. So absolutely, I believe in paying it forward. I believe in continuing doing what I've been doing to this point. Absolutely.

BALDWIN: That's wonderful. My best to you.

Natalie Dubose, thank you so much. Keep baking. Thank you.

DUBOSE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

As far as the grand jury's decision is concerned that sparked those protests, we know one thing for sure, there's absolutely no evidence Michael Brown's use of pot caused him to become overly aggressive, but prosecutors put it out there anyway. Were they out of line? Our legal panel weighs in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: His attorneys say Officer Darren Wilson never wavered on the details how he shot and killed Michael Brown on August 9th. But one thing Wilson couldn't answer is, why would a teenager, just shot by and running from an officer, then turn around and charge at him? Well, it appears prosecutors may have tried to answer that for grand jurors who decided on Monday against indicting the officer. Reportedly, St. Louis prosecutors mentioned Brown's pot use more than 40 times to these grand jurors.

Here's one exchange found by the website, reason.com, between a prosecutor and toxicologist. This is about THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. I want to read it for you right now. It says, quote, "Prosecutor: You experience the hallucination and/or the psychosis if you had a high enough does of THC. Witness: If you got a high enough dose, you could have a psychotic episode into hallucinations, yes."

With me now, CNN's legal analyst, Paul Callan; and HLN's legal analyst, Joey Jackson.

Gentlemen, welcome.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: How are you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I'm all right. Happy day-after-Thanksgiving.

Listen, this is the new nugget out of this story, this notion that the prosecutors used -- and we'll get to waxing in a minute. Just the notion that they used the word marijuana 40-plus times in this exchange with the grand jury. Is that justified?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It certainly something that the grand jury would want to know about because the autopsy showed THC levels in Michael Brown's system when the autopsy was done. I'm sure they were struggling to understand why, if the officer's testimony was truthful, a teenager would turn and run at a man with a gun. It doesn't seem logical. So were the drugs causing him to be irrational? I can see why the grand jury would want to explore that.

JACKSON: I could see, but not in this fashion. Here's the point. At the point you introduce that to the grand jury, that is marijuana use, the appropriate thing to do is introduce evidence as to how it affects a person. And in the event that the discussion is centered around how it affected them, I would be more concerned about people who were in contact with him. What was his demeanor like? Was he aggressive that day? How did he act? Was he agitated? Was he mellow? Or having an expert explain that. But when you're in a grand jury and making suggestions to a grand jury that clearly have an overtone to supply the answer and really suggest that he was aggressive, I think is improper. And it goes a step further. And I'll say this. Grand juries are customarily bodies very good at acquiring and getting information, getting it all out there and getting all you need to know. They're historically bad at having that evidence scrutinized and evaluated as in an adversarial process. During a trial, you would have a Paul Callan cross-examining you.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Exactly. And there would be push-back on that and it would be fully explained. If you're going to bring up an issue, talk to me about how it relates to this case.

CALLAN: That's the way a grand jury works.

JACKSON: Yes. Why introduce it?

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: That means you have a heightened obligation.

CALLAN: You are talking about the way Brown was acting. The grand jury, in some of the colloquy of the discussion about the drug use, there was talk about him being aggressive in the convenience store. Now we have seen the film of Michael Brown grabbing the owner --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Different issue.

CALLAN: -- grabbing the owner and throwing him backwards, looking rather aggressive to my eye. And I'm sure there was a question why was he that aggressive that the grand jury and the D.A.s were looking at. Whether this was the proper way to explore the science of THC impact on human becomes becoming violent, I think that's a different issue. And I think I would have to agree with Joey, I don't agree this is probably the proper way to approach it, but certainly it was a proper subject for the grand jury to look at.

JACKSON: But not in this fashion. And in terms of the grocery store or wherever, the convenience store, I do agree. That was aggressive. He was acting aggressively. Maybe he was aggressive because he was robbing a store. But certainly it wouldn't explain the marijuana in his system. If you put it out there, it needs be aired properly in context.

BALDWIN: Yeah.

Let me move past Ferguson. This is another story that percolated. This 12-year-old boy who was shot and killed in Cleveland, Ohio. Do me a favor and stand by.

We have more of this video, this young man was holding -- you see the picture of it. It's a toy gun. Hear why the 911 operator is causing some questions, and along with what we're learning today, what the police officer did not do after the gunshots. Let's go through that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: New questions are being raised in the tragic incident where police shot and killed a Cleveland 12-year-old who had been pointing a toy gun at people in a public space. One of them being, why did it take almost four minutes for police to give this young man first aid, CPR, after he was shot.

I want you to listen to the details from the police chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED TOMBA, DEPUTY CHIEF, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Approximately three minutes and 49 seconds after that took place, there was a first district detective, along with an FBI agent, that were working in the first district and they were working a bang robbery detail. They heard the assignment and they responded to the scene and provided first aid. The FBI agent is a nationally registered paramedic. So he was given first aid in under four minutes. And approximately three minutes after that, our emergency service medical unit, EMS, showed up and provided medical service to the young man.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: If you are not as familiar with this story, let me set it up for you.

Here's our correspondent, George Howell. He has surveillance video capturing how -- the moments before this boy was shot.

But I have to warn you, it is graphic, so it could be tough for to you watch. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This video was record on a security camera in a Cleveland park and it shows Tamir Rice moving in and out of view. Keep in mind, these are the last few moments of this 12-year-old's life, a video his family wants you to see.

First we see Rice pacing the sidewalk, brandishing what looks to be a weapon. At one point, even taking a two-handed shooting stance. All the while, police say, he was being watched.

TOMBA: The gentleman sitting in the gazebo is the gentleman that called into our dispatch center.

HOWELL: Here's that initial call to 911.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

CALLER: I'm sitting in the park at West Boulevard by the West Boulevard rapid transit station. And there's a guy in here with a pistol, and it's probably fake, and pointing at every one.

(END AUDIO FEED)

HOWELL: In fact, the caller points out, twice, the gun is probably fake.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

CALLER: The guy keeps pulling it in and out. It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring people.

(END AUDIO FEED)

HOWELL: Here's the clip why the man called 911. The object that looks like handgun we now know is really a toy pellet gun. And Rice seems to point it at this person whose identity is blurred. Police say he's also seen here reaching for his cell phone, then having a conversation. Minutes later, Rice moves to the gazebo where he's now alone. This, just minutes before police arrive.

And now we know exactly what the dispatcher told the responding officers before they arrived. Notice how she never relays the information that it may be a fake gun.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED) 911 DISPATCHER: Everybody's tied up with priorities. There's a guy sitting on a swing pointing a gun at people.

(END AUDIO FEED)

HOWELL: A few seconds later, she describes Rice but, again, fails to pass along the words the 911 caller used about the gun probably being fake.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

911 DISPATCHER: In the park, by the youth center is a black male sitting on a swing. He's wearing a camouflage hat, a grey jacket with black sleeves. Said he keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people.

(END AUDIO FEED)

HOWELL: What happens next happens very quickly. Officer Frank Garmack (ph), driving, and Officer Timothy Lowman, in the passenger seat.

TOMBA: The officers ordered him to show his hands and to drop the weapon and the young man pulled the weapon out and that's when the officer fired.

HOWELL: In the dispatcher's audio, you can hear the officers' grim call for help.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

POLICE OFFICER: Radio, shots fired. Male down. Black male, maybe 20. Black revolver or black handgun. Send EMS this way.

(END AUDIO FEED)

HOWELL: Even as they call for help, the officers still not understanding that they've shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a toy gun.

TOMBA: This is not an effort to exonerate, not an effort to show the public that anybody did anything wrong. This is an obvious tragic event where a young member of our community lost their life. We got two officers that were out there protecting the public that just had to do something that nobody wants to do.

HOWELL: George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this. Paul Callan, Joey Jackson.

It's tough to look at it all together in its entirety but it provides perspective. We know when you see that patrol car zooming in on that lawn towards him, the officer saying through the door that was opened, put your hands up, put your hands up, put your hands up, three times. According to police, he reaches into his waist band and that's when they shoot him. Mistakes made?

CALLAN: Well, the biggest mistake obviously is by the dispatcher who should have told the officers that it was likely a fake gun. The officers approach and, you know, maybe they didn't know he was a 12- year-old. They were describing him as a 20-year-old. That gun is very realistic looking. What we have to know though is, what was that last interaction between the victim and the officers before the shots were fired. It's kind of hard to see that on the video because we're looking at a far-away angle.

BALDWIN: Had dispatch told the responding officer, eyewitness on the scene says it could be a toy gun, you think that would have changed how the officer responded?

JACKSON: You know, Brooke, I think it affects the state of the mind of the officer. Hearing a gun versus a toy gun, that's pretty big, pretty significant as far as how the officer would respond.

There are multiple concerns here to me. That's first one. The second one is it could have been the officer asking for clarification. Third issue, there's a person with a gun. Wouldn't you keep a safe perimeter between you and the individual? You're going to roll straight up upon them? The fourth issue that concerns me is, two seconds and you ask someone three separate times to drop the weapon? That doesn't comport to me with reality. It appears, when we look at the videotape, there's a driving up and there's a shooting.

BALDWIN: Very quick.

JACKSON: So, you know, where's the ability to warn or, you know, warning, hey, drop it or whatever you do. I certainly understand police are in a very tough situation. They have to act upon a split- moment's notice. But if you keep a safe perimeter, keep your distance, say, hey, put the weapon down, you get down, I think the result would have been different than another child dead.

BALDWIN: So those are your four different concerns.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Then you have the issue we heard from the police chief saying that first aid was rendered within the first four-minute mark after he was shot. What is proper protocol for an officer to perform CPR?

CALLAN: In most police departments, they have training to administer CPR. We expect the officers at the scene would have administered it, particularly when they realized it was a child and it wasn't some adult that was shot. So, you know, I think there are all kinds of problems with this situation that might lead to at least a civil lawsuit. Whether criminal charges against the police will lie -- is another matter. We've had this long discussion about Ferguson. We might be having a similar discussion about Cleveland in the near future depending upon what the grand jury law is there.

JACKSON: I certainly think we'll be having that discussion. As far as criminality, understand there's two prongs. The first prong is whether the officer feared for his life, and basically was he going to be injured or would he die. And the second prong is, did he act reasonably, Brooke, under those circumstances. That's how it will be evaluated criminally. From a civil perspective, it's negligence. Did the officer act in a negligent way? If so, civil and monetary damages will --

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: And the city is responsible for the dispatcher in failing to adequately advise the officers that it was possibly a fake gun.

BALDWIN: I agree with you. I think we will be talking about this one

Paul Callan, Joey Jackson, thank you both very much.

JACKSON: Thank you, Brooke.

CALLAN: Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, yes, cue the Black Friday mob madness here. But as you're about to see, this wasn't even the worst of it. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: True to form, Black Friday shoppers did not cease to amaze us by how much they want good deals. Take a look. Scenes like this one all over the country for flat-screen TVs and, oh, yes Barbies. You heard me. This was Indiana.

But in London -- I know, I didn't know that was a thing, Black Friday, in London, but it is. And more chaos there. Retailers there embraced the American tradition of Black Friday. No word yet if they regret it. Police had to be called in to break up multiple fights. Even people were arrested in London.

Let's go a little closer to home. Deborah Feyerick is live for me in Jersey city, New Jersey.

Deborah Feyerick, perhaps you drew the short straw. We appreciate it.

Looks pretty calm where you are right now.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, those scenes you're seeing of those shoppers who broke out into fights, those are the hard-core shoppers. Many came out last night after Thanksgiving. The store here at Newport Center, across the river from Manhattan, really got busy between 9:00 and 12:00 last night. The intrepid ones stayed through the night. Then it was quiet. Now we're seeing a swell of people. They are shopping for the biggest retailers offering the greatest discounts. Macy's, Sears, Kohl's, all of them offering discounts up to 60 percent. People getting towels, bedding, suitcases, a few electronics, a few deep fryers. And so people are shopping.

And it's interesting because some of the smaller stores aren't offering the same kinds of discounts as the larger ones, but we're seeing bags of shoppers, shopping bags filled with items from those stores as well. Everybody is benefiting from this shopping day -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: So I know you've been there for a while. You've been talking to people. I'm curious what's the weirdest thing someone woke up at 3: 00 to wait in line for?

FEYERICK: A shirt. Like, it doesn't matter. What are you buying at 3:00 in the morning? People are here. They counted their pennies, saving their money and coming here they know they will get a discount.

What they are doing is not shopping necessarily for Christmas gifts. The majority are shopping for themselves. They are getting jeans and coats. You're right. What's the weirdest thing? Anything you buy at 3:00 in the middle of the night because, why do you need it at that hour.

People feel they are getting sufficient savings so that's why they are here. We see these ebbs and flows and surges going on. We don't know what the numbers are. Last year, it was busy and retailers were disappointed. It's unclear. We'll know better as the next couple of days wear on -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Listen, every nickel, penny and dime count for sure. I say more power to the people who are buying for themselves. There you go.

Deborah Feyerick, thank you so much. In Jersey City for us.